Firstly, I would like to apologize if this topic is considered taboo, and as I didnt find a pinned rules for this section I will try to be as appropriate as I can.


Since birth, we humans (or most humans in the civilized parts of the world) have been made to wear clothes. When I was little I would regularly strip off my clothes and run around the house (I'm sure lots of kids do that), and for that I usually got appropriate scolding from my guardians. This lead me to wonder why putting on clothes was something so important?

Well, now that I'm older, I understand that putting on clothes keeps us warm, some clothes protect us from harm, and others.. are just for covering ourselves. I understand the keeping us warm and protecting us from harm part, but I still fail to grasp why we clothe ourselves just to cover up?

If you still do not get what I mean, let me put it in a more conventional way.. if we stay in a warm place, and there isnt anything in the environment to that can harm us, why cant we walk around naked? If possible I would like to like to leave religion out of the picture, as I would like to discuss reasons that go beyond rules and laws, I would like to know why humans in their own nature cover themselves.

Usually the things we try and cover up/hide are the things we find unpleasant, ugly, vulgar and shameful. So does that imply that we find our own bodies unpleasant, ugly, vulgar and shameful as well? Or is it because we want to look good? Or could it be because we feel vulnerable when naked? I would like to know your personal views on this.

Also, laws have been put in place to restrict a human being from walking around naked. What are your thoughts on those laws.

Haha, i could think of 1 reason. Erection. lulz!! Feel kinda weird if walking around with my stick "waking up".

P.S
For me, i hv a fragile skin. Havent find out whats the problem is. My skin would turn tomato red immediately with a soft slap on it >.< Even when i use my palm slap on the door softly, u can see the effect right away. So i guess im wearing clothes to protect my lovely unique skin.

what nonsense



humans started wearing clothings in stone age because they slowly stared to feel "shy"... Once any species feels that way, they are getting "civilized" already.

An interesting answer. Could you elaborate further on the statement you just made.

"Once any species starts feeling "shy", they are getting "civilized" "

Also it wasnt very nice to flame the previous poster, as I did ask for personal views on the matter. ^^

Clothes reflects who we are in the society. Yes it may sound deceiving but at the same time wouldnt it gave confidence to the party himself and others aswell? for instance business person?

In response to the law, naked i assume is fully undress so it would be unpleasent sight seeing for others on the street. Just imagine in a crowded place and u have a naked guy standing in the center, what come across ur mind? Does he ( the naked person) has the right to sue u if u 'accidentally' touches his genitals. Or if the situation where a naked lady and others taking advantage of it? Can the others have the defence of consent by her?

Clothes has became a necessity. No doubt.

@shakes86:
Nice point made.
"clothes relects who we are in the society"
Even in ancient cultures the high ranking individuals (priest and shamans for example) would adorn themselves in a much more than a regular individual. So would it be wrong to assume from your statement that humans cover themselves to look/feel more in-control/superior (or to try not to seem inferior to other individuals)?

Regarding your second statement, I would like to put forth a question. You stated that "it would be an unpleasant sight seeing someone naked". Why is that so? Why do we humans feel uneasy when seeing a naked person in public? Are we not all the same? Feeling uneasy looking at another human in a state of undress but being fine looking at yourself or your loved ones, I would like to find out why that is so.

You can't leave religion out of the picture because the reason why people wear clothes have a lot to do with religion. Over time, it has become a core feature in human culture all over the world.

One important thing about clothes is they are worn not so much to cover up the body even though being naked is not something widely accepted now. Normally when you wear clothes, your thoughts are not "Ok I've got to cover myself up." it's more likely to be "Am I going to look good in this?". It more about shaping our image. Clothes in every culture have much more of a symbolic rather than practical function. If you've ever read about some famous Amazon tribe which I can't recall now, you know that they wear various pieces of cloth an ornaments on their body. However it doesn't function to protect them at all. Their feet which is by far exposed to the most abuse if not covered by a single thread.

Feeling uneasy when you see someone naked has much more to do with conforming to social norms rather than nakedness being repulsive on it's own. If people were truly appalled by nudity, you think they'd enjoy sex that much? You just feel uneasy when you seeing someone naked if it's a public affair. Do you feel uneasy if you're alone and there's a picture of a naked person on you're computer screen? What happens if unexpected you friend barges and and see what's on your screen?

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Aug 14 2009, 09:27 PM

Nice topic.

Not all people wear clothes for their status, if you are not going to wear tie and long sleeves, you will still certainly put on some T-shirt.

And I don't think those sexy clothes has anything to do with keeping warm etc. Its like opposite sex attraction, same purpose as you put on cologne or hair gel. Which is a result of our cloth wearing civilization.

And then, let's think further, when we remove our clothes, its usually mean private time, either for bathroom time or sex. So seeing people naked will give us impression of sexual harassment, and hence we have a law to prevent people from getting naked.

Think again, if our culture is dress up with tie and suit when having sex, people might feel sexual harassed if you wear suit in the open.

It will be very awkward.

Allow me to tell you all an old story.

Picture 5 monkeys placed in a cage. From the ceiling of the cage hangs a bunch of bananas. A stepladder is placed under the bananas. As the first eager monkey rushes up the ladder, a firehose knocks him off and hoses down all the monekys. Shocked, they sit back and regroup. Later another monkey tries, with the same result. It make take repeated attempts by each monkey before they become conditioned to not climb the ladder. Then one new monkey is added to the group. He spies the bananas and leaps onto the ladder, only to be dragged down and beaten by the rest of the group. After several attempts, the new monkey learns.

So even if we remove the firehose, climbing the ladder to get the banana will remain as a taboo for those monkeys.

Just like you are well dressed up in a nude beach. People will think that you are the weirdo.

This post has been edited by rexis: Aug 14 2009, 09:38 PM

one word- evolution.

do monkeys need clothes? gorillas dont either. as we all know, human beings are bestowed upon great intelligence and all sorts of emotions, thus making us more intellectually advantaged over other animals. i daresay our prehistoric ancestors wore very lil clothes due to the fact that we could stand the cold environment, at the same time theres a sense of embarrassment. as evolution ensued, humanbeings got more 'civilised' , began to develop and create skills and techniques to add a touch of luxury to life. Hence the dawn of more variety of clothes to provide warmth and status

a very interesting topic indeed.

now those who spoke of cover-up being civilized, are we truly civilized? what is our definition of civilized?

there are many decent individuals out there who appreciate nudity in art form, could they be linked to be uncivilized?

my thought is that clothings are generally (through human history) for both practical and non-practical purpose. and from one implementation, it evolved some less coverage become more, others more coverage become less.

too add humor to this discussion.............



when it comes to the evolving mindset of humans, even the degree of acceptance of how clothings should be worn varies based on so many factors.

let's take for example, a lady going around in spaghetti-straps and being braless. in some places, this is common in some countries while others could have the lady labelled as slutty, among many other bad words.

basically how far we're offended also depends on our beliefs, how we look at things in life but generally a well-figured nude person is accepted better than those that are not.

it's very hard to exclude religion out of this matter. as said, different religion preaches us to do differently in this world.

and it's culture too. different culture showing different expression and reaction. like what goldfries said, a lady with spaghetti strap and braless, imagine she's walking in NYC, or UK, comparing with she's walking in KL city.

mumeichan



keeseng12



@mumeichan & keeseng12:
When I started this topic, I stated that I would have liked to leave religion out of the picture. But that was only because I was looking to restrict religious replies like "because the bible says so". I too find that religion played a significant role in why we cover up. So feel free to include religion in your statement.

Forgive me if I step on unwelcome territory here.. but on the matter of religion playing a vital role in how we clothe ourselves, why would the creator who made us to look the way we are, require us to cover ourselves up? On the other hand, if religion was the crafts of human-kind, why would we want other human beings to cover up? Human beings have a naturally lustful nature, and could it be that instead of being ashamed about our body, humans are actually ashamed of their lust? And so they cover themselves to hide it?

I have to say I agree with memeichan's second statement that clothes "have more of a symbolic rather than practical function", but why is that so? Is it because the human body is lacking a natural way of presenting its superiority over another human being? Thats where C-Note's reply comes in..


C-Note



According to C-Note evolution has caused us to adorn ourselves with more and more clothing items, but why? Lions have their manes to show superiority and status, rams have their horns, deers have their antlers, others show superiority and status through size and power or age. But we humans had to resort in such a fake way of showing our status.. clothes. Well maybe except for women, who still have a little ancient instinct left to feel inferior to someone with a larger bust. And I guess men too still have some ancient instinct left and feel inferior to another who has a larger/longer dingdong.

So maybe instead of clothing being a way to show status, it has become a means to equalize the status of all human beings. Instead of being "born" superior (physically), humans have to work hard to earn "clothing" to raise their status. Interesting..


rexis


@rexis:
True, not all people wear clothes for status, so then why wear clothes in the first place? It is quite true that we cover up because that is the norm in our society, but why did it become that way in your opinion? Who or what is the firehose that caused society to make being naked a taboo?


goldfries



@goldfries:
Very true indeed, why would we consider wearing clothes to be more civilized than being in the nude. Also, if we construct a clothing timeline (very like the picture posted), we would get something like this...


nude > cover major genitalia > cover major genitalia as well as top for females > full covering > full covering + extra outer covering > less inner covering + outer covering > less inner covering + less outer covering > and maybe in the near future full nude again.

Does that mean that humans have evolved and then undergone de-evolution? Also I find your last statement rather interesting. It is quite true that we would be very much less offended if a well-figured nude person is seen rather than if we saw those who are not so well-figured. I wonder why it is so. Are we actually offended but feel less offended because we find a well-figured person more "sexually attractive"?

talking about ladies clothing. (well, men too) - it went like what you mentioned, in my own words, it's from nudity, partial coverage, full coverage to the max super kau kau until cannot breath (think Victorian, corsets, high hair that can't pass toll booth, basically taking a lot of effort and usually more than 1 person to dress a person up) and going less and less and less (walk around and it's common to see hot girls in shorts and spaghetti strap. )

so if clothing represents being civilized, we actually went to the pinnacle of being civilized and now retrogressing.

it's like putting Angelina Jolie nude vs Roseanne Barr nude vs Margaret Thatcher nude.

i'm sure you guys can visualize that, no need pictars. stopping at the first one would probably give you an erection, or if not something that probes your curiosity. going further could leave the mentally unprepared with a possible nightmare.

perhaps it's there's the nature in human where we naturally know what is nice. perhaps it is what is set by the media / general acceptance?

i don't know, those are just thoughts. looking at paintings from the past, you'll see that nude characters were often portrait in proportion which by today's standard is called FAT, or if not CHUBBY.

but why was it drawn? surely it was because of people's appreciation, the general perception (and appreciation, and acceptance) that time was different.

while this has nothing to do with clothing per se, it has relevance from the view point of acceptance, which I think is possibly relevant to the amount of coverage that we see transpired through the course of humanity.

*pardon my lengthy post, I'm not quite sure if anyone would understand what I'm blabbering about either. *

@TS

"Regarding your second statement, I would like to put forth a question. You stated that "it would be an unpleasant sight seeing someone naked". Why is that so? Why do we humans feel uneasy when seeing a naked person in public? Are we not all the same? Feeling uneasy looking at another human in a state of undress but being fine looking at yourself or your loved ones, I would like to find out why that is so."

Unpleasant sight would adopt in limited target gropus, for example children of opposite sex. Children would think y are they so different of wat we have instances like different genitals or even having "hair' (i dun knw wat is da approriate word for bulu, sry for dat =x) ? Then again are society REALLY prepare for sex education? and towards what extend of sexuall knowledge are we talking about or just enlightend in area of safe sex precautions?

Next,I would disagree that we are the same. Instances like certain rare circumstances man with 3 nipples? Or perhaps if that person had bruises all over which he wanted to hides it. Clothes come to play in this role which helps to mask from others naked eye. Yes, call it shame but we dont need to tell the whole world who we are. Dont u agree?

Looking at ur lovers naked is a totally whole next story again. Personally, if she being naked infront of me im sexually arouse by it because its common, i assume, that its time to get intimate. if she goes naked everyday the sense of intimacy varies again. Seeing her undress in the public vs alone in the room is different again. Call me selfish but i dun like to share my womens body with others =D

We don't walk around naked for the same reason we don't eat insects (well most of us anyway.) It was a good idea at the time, and old habits die hard. Why do we drink cow milk and not, say, goat milk or donkey milk? it's what we've always done, if there's no good reason to change it, we don't why would there be a reason not to wear clothes?

Some people actually feel that clothes hinder themselves ala nudists.

Social status, individuality, modesty and so forth. All been highlighted prior to this post. It started how? That really depends on whether one follows religion or not. By the Christian faith, Adam and Eve clothed themselves out of shame after eating the fruit from the tree. If we were to concur with the theory of evolution, then it would be out of nessacity against the elements. From thereon it evolves you see, say if someone were to get the idea of wanting to be different and standing out, there comes in the idea of design.

Frankly, it differs nowadays. It is done, yes simply because it is what everyone else does. Were we to all have grown up being naked and being clothed not the norm, then certainly our sentiments and this thread title would differ. But people certainly have their own ideas as to why they wear clothes.

Clothes I believe had some practical use as you've already mentioned, but when practicality stops, its still retained, and when you question why? I would say the answer is distinction.

We humans like to be individuals, and as individuals we want to stand out or at least identify ourselves as unique and different from others. If you're "naked" you would likely paint your body, or add accessories to yourself. With clothes, you do so with different styles and patterns.

When this distinction is created on an individual level, slowly it "evolves" into a group. Where people start to "copy" from one another or form groups based on certain "dress codes". Which is why you have clothes which denote status/rank. Then within this group, you will continue to have people trying to set themselves apart from others. Best example would be formal men wear. Mostly the same, but if you pay attention you can see subtle differences in the tie, shoes, cufflinks, etc.

Once a dress code is established to denote certain rank/status/membership, then you have to consider that you have to dress like that group to be part of it. Its social compliance, and if you do not follow the "rules" you're either called a rebel, or if you're charismatic enough, the leader of a new trend

It all boils down to trying to be a distinct individual in society.

We should understand that the clothings are researched and specifically tailored for those in certain industry or profession.

For example: The most hazardous work environments requires personnel to wear Personal Protective Clothing (PPC), including military, structural fire, wildlands fire, police, emergency rescue, mining, metals smelting, petroleum and heavy industry.

Sunshine or rain...it doesn't matter. It's what the work requires. In short: For protection from hazardous work conditions.

Regards, Joey

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Aug 24 2009, 01:22 PM

Clothes also serve as a second barrier to our body. To protect it from unfavourable conditions and harm.

Example:
Preventing insects from crawling on your skin.

Less risk to get bacterial infection. Imagine if your penis is dangling around in the open and it touch something infested with bacteria. Gotta amputate la like that...

Also I don't think you want to be in a crowded train where your p**** is touching an old lady's buttocks do you? Maybe the old lady will enjoy it la..LOL

Anyway, I think it's more practical. Like I say, hygiene. Imagine if you sat on the chair in the train where the previous person who sat has ringworms, tapeworms, etc. Crawl up you a-hole.

The symbolic meaning comes with the types of clothes. E.g. King's clothes, jester's clothes, peasant's clothes, priest's clothes. They used clothes to identify the occupation and social standing.

I would say...puberty
When we were still a child, we walk around naked without shame..but we slowly feel shame as we grow older. Especially when boys and girls start to have feelings for each other.
Ofcourse, we cannot look down on the influence of the environment we live in because we can never exist alone (screw Robinson Crusoe...its a myth) so religion, culture, social conditioning can also influence this. In the name of civilization.....haha