all sifu out there,

can you please clarify something about sub woofer? i got few noob question here

1. SVC Vs DVC? pros n cons
2. what is single magnet and double magnet? izit related to SVC or DVC?
3. how to determine the good specification of a woofer?
4. how to match amp with proper specification of a woofer? eg: impedence, rms
5. how to fully optimize woofer performance?

if possible, can you please answer according to the number.
thank you for ur time and attention. hope u can share some of ur knowledge here.

1. SVC Vs DVC? pros n cons

Generally speaking a DVC has a bit more wire for the coils, and it can handle a bit more power.
Biggest advantage of DVC's is wiring options..
For example a DVC 4 ohm can be wired to 2 or 8 ohms, where as a SVC 4 ohm is only able to stay at 4 ohms.
finally...DVC normally for bigger power handling woofer..means the rms

svc = single voice coil = got only 1 pair of +ve -ve terminal
dvc = double voice coil = got 2 pairs of +ve -ve terminals
dvc pros allows you to feed it more power from your amp by lowering impedance (ohm value) by wiring it in parallel. cons is, u need a suitable amp that is stable at the lowered ohm value.

this is just the number of magnets that u can see at the bottom of the sub, usually higher number of magnet needs higher power to run, not related to the voicecoils.

do your research, read reviews, go to TT, ask other users opinions, etc...read specs only no use, manufacturer can always goreng....

just match rms of the woofer to the amp, vice versa. if its svc 4ohm sub then read the 4ohm mono rating of the amp. if its dvc 4ohm sub then look for the 2ohm mono rating of the sub. usually safe to get amp rating up to 50% higher than sub's rating.
eg) if sub is dvc 4ohm 400W, look for an amp that can go mono 2ohm with 400-600W
if sub is 400W svc, then look for amp that is 4ohm mono with 400-600W

besides feeding it enuff power, u need a strong and rigid box, according to the size recommended by the manufacturer.  dont buy ready made cheap boxes..


This post has been edited by zennn: Aug 6 2009, 01:40 PM

thank you for ur reply sifu zenn, quite clear about this.

but i got further question, mayb u can clarify this as well:
1. ur statement "u need a suitable amp that is stable at the lowered ohm value." usually amp ohm value is at 4ohm, u mean some amp's ohm not stable? going up n down?

2. SVC or DVC can hv double magnet as well?

3. if a sub woofer with double magnet required more power and if my amp not good enough (in rms), then also no use rite? for this case, i better buy single magnet woofer?

This post has been edited by thunder_kiat: Aug 7 2009, 06:09 PM

correct... depending on the specs... dual 2 ohm means u still can either wired it up 1 ohm or 4 ohm which the latter configuration is much better as 2 channel or mono amp is able to wire it up. dual 4 ohms is either 2 ohms or 8 ohms.. etc.. normally for dual 4 ohms, only monoblock is suitable. Not many (and even have its not recommended) to have 2 channel bridged at 2 ohms mono

amp manufacturer will state in their specs how low their amp is stable down to. if youre using single voice coil 4ohm sub, then no problem, most amps are stable at 4ohm mono. if u have a double voice coil 4ohm sub, u will need an amp stable down to 2ohm mono. thats why have to check your amp suitable or not



yes svc can have double magnet also

all u need to do is check the rms of the sub and rms of the amp, doesnt matter how many magnet. get an amp with rms a bit more than rms of the sub. even up to 50% more also ok. less is not ok....but still got sound la. just not as cun

1. SVC Vs DVC? pros n cons
None, just wiring options on a DVC. Performance is/can be the same or better either way.

2. what is single magnet and double magnet? izit related to SVC or DVC?

Single or double stacked magnet, doesn't matter as long as the sub sounds good. Strength and quality of the magnet matters more.

3. how to determine the good specification of a woofer?

By looking at the graph of what it can do. Other specs doesn't really tell you anything but help you find the right ancillaries to match it with.

4. how to match amp with proper specification of a woofer? eg: impedence, rms

Find an amplifier that can handle the specified impedance. The sub will have a safe operating power range. i.e 30w - 500w. Pick a good amp that has a true power rating of anything in between. If you're into SPL, you may want to find something that is on the upper range of the power scale or a little more wouldn't hurt.

5. how to fully optimize woofer performance?

Build a proper enclosure for it (right size, non leaking and suitable for the purpose). A sub does not perform miracles by itself. Building the right box, setting the right frequencies and feeding it clean/wholesome signal will give you more enjoyment that just buying an expensive sub and not knowing what to do with it.

tq sifu zenn and mnkh27.

do you know how much to do custom made woofer box for 12"? where can find cheaper price and where? i mean around kl area

good shops will quote u around 250 for a good sealed box. kl/pj all same la. go to good shops please.

u suggesting the sealed box is better than the ported box? i nvr had any sealed box with woofer to try on. really would like to hear the FACT.

Go join TT listen and compare the sound of seal and port...hard to explain by words actually.

From my experience, If you were used to ported box, u'll find seal box is not loud as ported. However, the bass is more deep and low (thumping bass) unlike using ported box which is boomy. The seal box is much nicer and clean sound. The best thing about seal is you can feel the bass vibrating your heart.

I love seal box but if like to play loud then go for ported box. But it depends to invidual preference and type of music you listen to

i agree with u. what is TT listen?

Izit possible to wire 2 2ohm 300w rms subs with 4ohm 300w rms amp?

its possible... but you will be only feeding each sub with 150w rms

If connected the subs in parallel also it will feed 150w rms only?The amp is 4ohm 300w rms and the subs are 2ohm 300w rms DVC le..

didnt say its a DVC so i assumed its SVC...

that case... yes... amp go down to 2 ohm... and each sub getting 300w rms...

check the JL website for reference...

This post has been edited by craziechild: Aug 12 2009, 06:59 PM

Thanks for the info.

sealed box gives a comparitively flat response or more uniform response (throughout the frequency range) as compared to ported box. thats why used in SQ more, easier to tune (with xover or eq)

ported box will give a high response at certain frequency range only (hence the term tuned ported box), thats why used more in SPL or street bass systems. size of box and size of port will give different frequency responses...

---

Added on August 13, 2009, 4:14 pm2 units dvc 2 ohm subs? wired in series-parallel gives u 2ohm, wired in parallel-series gives u 2ohm also. if your amp is stable at 2 ohm mono then can la. if it makes 600W at 2ohm, then each sub gets 300W, so its ok. just check the amp specs...

This post has been edited by zennn: Aug 13 2009, 04:14 PM

thank you for all reply, hopefully this can be a good sharing and becomes a FAQ session.

In the future, if there is any RELATED question, please post it over here. so that this might help the ICE beginer in this topic.

regarding this subwoofer,

how to choose the amp ??

CLASS D MONOBLOCK ?

DVC=DOUBLE VOICE COIL ?

mean DVC speaker got 2 +/- wiring terminal ?

regarding this mingwei 12' 1000w sub,

donno got 1 or 2 wiring +/- terminal.

so, the

v-tune monoblock terminal, suitable for this sub or not?

cos im less of budget..

jst can find cheap stuff.

please give me the suitable wiring diagram.

n suitable box.

post some pic ...




Attached thumbnail(s)

check ur pm

go take a proper look at the sub la, dont just see the pics...

how abt this sub ??
i think quality good ?


i see the sub oledi. damn heavy.

i think the amp able to push tis sub ?

sifu pls help.



cos previously i got a 1000w amp 4ch .. but burn oledi.

now send to claim.


my wiring is 8ga power cable.

so from battery to fuse need 4ga or 0ga ?

and i don hav capacitor.

in future , if i wanna add anothe monoblock amp to push the 1000w dvc sub,

total 2 amp..

how abt the wiring ?

from batt to fuse, 0ga cable ? after fuse need add capacitor ?
after capacitor thn only add anothe distribution block ?

after distribution block, only split to 2 amp ?

from dis.block, 4ga / 8ga power cable ??


pls give advise.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Ideal set up:
Batt-fuse-Cap-amp (1 line per amp, all 0AWG or 4AWG)

Practical set up:
Batt-fuse-distribution block (0AWG up to here)-cap (1cap per amp)-amp (4AWG)

As for the sub, 1100W is peak. You need to find out how many watts RMS (aka nominal W), then get an amp that will provide more than that (also in watts RMS). Damn heavy means nothing nowadays, cause of new magnet materials.

ok.

the amp is 400 RMS power,

so, set to 2 ohm for the sub ?

agree with captdude...subs with heavy magnet does not give indication it is loud especially those china made chap ayam although theorytically yes it is right. Big magnet need big power to push the subs.

hello guys!

i have a question regarding amp/sub wiring.

from where are you suppose to 'pull' the wiring for the sub? (sorry i dont know how to rephrase this question in a better way)
because my sub sound is coming from the 'rear-left' output (when i was playing arnd with faders and balance).
is this the right way to get the sound to the sub?

thank you!

bro. regarding the wiring

captdupe :

Ideal set up:
Batt-fuse-Cap-amp (1 line per amp, all 0AWG or 4AWG)

Practical set up:
Batt-fuse-distribution block (0AWG up to here)-cap (1cap per amp)-amp (4AWG)


if i got 2 amp, both also 1000w , so need 2 capacitor ?

from batt to fuse, thn to cap, all 0awg ?

1 capacitor per amp ?

mean from fuse need put distribution block only to cap ?

or capacitor thn only connect distribution block ?

---

Added on November 8, 2009, 3:16 ambro, regarding CAPTDUPE SAID,

Ideal set up:
Batt-fuse-Cap-amp (1 line per amp, all 0AWG or 4AWG)


if got 2amp , both also connect to capacitor ?
no need distribution block oledi ??

sorry for many question .cos im newbie ...

sifu.. help.

This post has been edited by sincy: Nov 8 2009, 03:16 AM

cap is optional... it might help, it might suck your batt dry...

basic wiring first...

>=4awg with fuse less than 10" from the batt and before going through any metal piece --> fuse block --> >=8awg short as possible to amp.

the +12V and -ve MUST be the same size...

iamkroll,

Getting signal from any input is the same... the reason why left is used because in a mono channel input, usually the left channel is used... but why not using left + right that you have check your RCA output from the HU... i am guessing most like to be 1-to-2 RCA spliter that gets the the signal from left channel... or you are using a mono RCA cable? enlighten on the wiring system...

cheers...

craziechild, behind my HU got this splitter thing that 'steal' signal from a few of the masses of wires behind changing it to phono.

so is it the right way to get signal for the sub?

you mean hi to lo converter?

ok . understand half .

this not u/stand : the +12V and -ve MUST be the same size...

?? mean ??

my player is pioneer 1din, thn to preamp,
got 1 4ch for front door n rear.

future wanna add anothe monoblock amp for rear woofer box.

all still not install yet. still prepare all stuff,
cos not get the amp yet, still at supplier thr. claim warranty.

so u suggest i get anothe fuse block ? capacitor not recommended ?
from fuse block only connect to amp ?
how abt , if got 2 amp, both also connect to fuse block ah ?

if my amp wanna put under the seat,

how much for tht fuse block ?

the monoblock amp need use mono RCA cable ?

so it totally jst bass only la ? no other bunyi ? like vocal ..

i found oledi.

i knw wat is WOOFER RCA CABLE.

2X MALE CABLE. BOTH SAME 1.

found at
http://www.lelong.com.my/Auc/List/2007-01D...CA-M-cables.htm


for reference la.

---

Added on November 9, 2009, 4:06 amfrom batt to fuse , until fuse block also 4AWG cable ?

thn from fuse block to amp only 8AWG cable ?

how abt the ground cable ? 8AWG / 4AWG ?

This post has been edited by sincy: Nov 9 2009, 04:06 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

Practical setup :
1. From battery to distribution block use 1/0AWG cables
2. From distribution block to amps can either use 4 or 8AWG cables
3. get high efficient drivers(<75WRMS for speakers and <300WRMS for woofer) and 8ohm(the best)
4. using cap as power conditioner is ok but not as power supply. Using cap as power supply because of not enough power is pointless. If really not enough power, upgrading alternator or battery is the best way to go
5. Try not to run sub at lowest impedence, as running low impedence is generating heat rather than generating power to sub from amp
6. Lastly, getting power cables that have real rating, like 1/0AWG should have >4500 strands, not insulator thicker than wires inside

thanks for ur info.

my car is persona 1.6 auto basic line.
RM48000+++ tht kind.

few months car only.

my amp Kenko KK-1000 4X1000watts 4 Channel MOSFET Car Amplifier( the silver amp wit box beside pic)

1000watts X 4 Channel ouput at 4Ohm
2000watts X 2 bridged output at 4 Ohm
Full mosfet power supply
4 Ohm stable stereo
Frequency response: 10Hz - 30 kHz
Selectable bass boost (6dB, 0dB, 12dB) at 40Hz
Variable High Pass Filter: 120Hz - 3KHz
Variable Low Pass Filter: 50Hz - 250Hz
Subwoofer turn-on/turn-off control
Variable inpt level gain control
S/N ratio: >95dB
T.H.D.: <0.05%
Diamond cutting badge on the center of heatsink
Thermal/short circui protection
Power & protection led indicator

my speaker =6.5 speaker component set (provide wit the pic)(chicken brand) no $$ mah.
don laugh me.

future plan:

CALIBER CW-600P 6.5" HI POWER BASS MID WOOFER (plan to put at rear) join my amp



v-tune 10' woofer box 24'x15'x12 (plan to put at rear bonnet)
but need add anothe monoblock amp to push tis woofer.

either this bluestorm amp or the v-tune amp.

please help me choose.



B1000 BlueStorm MonoBlock High Power Amp




· Mosfet Power Supply

· 2 Ohm Stable

· Variable Low Pass: 40Hz – 150Hz

· Variable 12dB Bass Boost @ 40Hx

· PWM Controlled DC to DC Switching Power Supply

· Frequency Response: 15 – 150Hz

· Variable Subsonic Control: 15 – 55Hz

· T.H.D : 0.02%

· Thermal Protection

· Circuitry Overload Protection

· Bass Boost Remote Control

· Power and Protection LED Indicator

· Line Out

· 500W x 1 At 4 Ohm RMS

· 750 W x 1 At 2 4Ohm RMS

· Peak Power : 2000W




Attached thumbnail(s)

Sincy
How bout this budget solution:

Your current front speakers put in the rear and run by your HU directly. (actually better to remove it completely and sell)
You buy decent rm700 component speakers for your front. (macrom, peerless, focal, diamond)
Your 4ch amp: 2ch ---> front component speakers
2ch ---> subwoofer
No need buy monoblock, no need add new power cables.

Other suggestions:
sub alternatives----> 2nd hand Rockford Fosgate P1 & P2 for >rm300 including box
----> Alpine Type S shouldn't be more than rm400
----> Pioneer/ Blaupunkt subs should be miles better than any chicken chop stuff you can find

4AWG power cables through out your system will serve you well for many years.
Prices of China RCA and power cables are very close to entry level decent branded ones like Stinger, Directed, Audison, Streetwires. Do consider them.

Cincy,

i think many thing u still dunno yet, mayb u should consider direct chat with one of the sifu, else u ll end up to send lots of reply only can get answer. just my 2 cent

after saw some of the post above, 1 thing i need to clarify is, when you use a sealed box, the advantage is only easy to tune. SQ wise, it may sounds bad. Especially to a multi way system.

Why said so?
In a sealed box, the freq response of subwoofer mostly maintain linear until it end it's ability. But, when the freq response is linear, it create another problem, which is resonance.

Resonance can be settle with lowering certain EQ point or using Xover to do filtering, but it wont sound better than a proper tuned ported/bandpass box for the system. A proper tuned box can avoid resonance and it may enchance the "needed" freq from the port. By enchancing the needed freq, we get a true custom setup which sound more natural and detailed. Some people said a sealed box give more solid feel, i think they just haven listen to a proper tuned box yet. I had experience to 2 demo of RF p1 subwoofer by using sealed box and ported box in a 4 way system. The sealed box are built to spec and it provide very linear response. But in the system, the ported box sounds a lot better than the sealed box no matter how the tuning be done on the sealed box.

---

Added on November 11, 2009, 12:32 amlastly, it's all depend on the system

This post has been edited by howiechoo: Nov 11 2009, 12:32 AM

+1

personal preference: properly tuned bandpass box sounds the best...

thanks to all sifu.. im newbie mah....
n i not like u guy all knw well abt ICE, im gal..
no bf, if not, he can do for me..

then get a bf with good listening skill will help

hahaha.

no woo....thn i learn from all sifu here lo...

heiheihei.

---

Added on November 11, 2009, 5:10 pmthanks for all info.
i only got 1din player, so,
must add another pre-amp lo ??
i have to get 1din casing / 2din casing ? preamp wanna put whr ?
i think , wanna put the player together wit preamp by using 2din casing.
the rest lubang, jst cover wit papan plate no. those black color papan.

i got 4ch amp, so no need add anothe monoblock amp oledi la ?
not suggest right ?

monoblock amp, gonna upgrade wiring s/more. right ?

now jst add 2 midbass speaker to my rear. 6.5 inch enough ?

if didnt put woofer box la.

This post has been edited by sincy: Nov 11 2009, 05:10 PM

why dont u get a simple system, one HU, one 4ch amp, one comp set, one sub, kautim...

no need to get many-2 stuff, in the end u end up everything cap ayam and wires running everywhere, sure to get aeroplane sound

save up your money, buy good branded 2nd hand products, better for long run.

u can always buy a single din pocket to put small-2 stuff inside, under your HU, cost like Rm20 only

thn need add capacitor mah ?

cos i got 1din player, 1 4ch amp, 1set 6.5' speaker for front, n plan to buy 2 6.5 mid bass speaker for rear.

wire use 4AWG,
thn need capacitor mah? got relay n non relay type ?
i donno abt tht.

some is digital capacitor, got show the volt. any diff ??

my 1din player consider old type.

only 1 RCA cable.

so i go find some new player..

found 2 nice 1. price also less than rm1k.

i attach the pic.'

this both 2din player, got more than 1 RCA output mah.
thn i no need add pre amp lo.

please give some advise.
either which 1 nice..n better.
n who knw the actual price..??
.......................................................................................................

pioneer FH-P5000MP
Features: -

CD-R/RW playback
MP3 playback with ID3 Tag
WMA (Windows Media™ Audio) playback with WMA Tag
WAV file playback*
BMX (Bitmetric Equalizer)
Burr Brown D/A Converter
Built-in DSP
5-mode preset equalizer
2-mode custom preset equalizer
BBE® digital sound processing
Digital listening position selector
Time alignment
Digital 13-band graphic equalizer
2-way crossover: HPF/LP
Auto-slide face
Dolby B NR
Color changeable illuminated bar (10 colors, plus Rainbow and Mirage modes)
Rotary volume
2 RCA preout: selectable (front + rear / front + subwoofer)
Level Indicator
7-band spectrum analyzer
Supertuner® IIID
Multi-CD control

.......................................................................................................................................................................................

Kenwood DPX-4090MP Double DIN
Feature Highlights:-

* Fixed Face Plate
* Dot Matrix Mono Colour LCD with White LED Backlight
* Rotary Encoder & Jog Control Knob for Easy Operation
* Supplied with Remote Control Unit (with Audio Control & 10-key)
* Tel Mute
* Maximum Output Power : 50W x 4 (MOSFET Power IC)
* 2 Preouts
* Subwoofer Level & Low Pass Filter Adjustable
* SRS WOW
* System Q-Ex/ System E's+
* AUX Input
* Dual Zone Source & Volume Control
* Installer Memory/ Backup Memory
* AAC Files Playback created by ex. Apple iTunesTM for Windows
* WMA & MP3 Files Playback with ID-3 Tag Display
* Supreme
* Dual External Media Control Capability (with Optional KCA-S210A)
* Optional Apple iPod Interface Ready (KCA-iP500)

General Features:-

* Fixed Face Plate
* Dot Matrix Mono Colour LCD with White LED Backlight
* Security Code function
* Rotary Encoder & Jog Control Knob for Easy Operation
* Key Illumination (Green)
* Spectrum Analyzer
* Auto Dimmer Function (on/off)
* Digital Clock (24H)
* Supplied with Remote Control Unit (with Audio Control, 10-key & Dual Zone Control)
* Contrast Control
* 2-way Telephone Mute
* Serial Number Display Function *Hidden Feature

Single CD Features:-

* AAC (Advanced Audio Codec) Files Playback created by ex. Apple iTunesTM for Windows
* WMA (Windows Media Audio) & MP3 Files Playback with ID-3 Tag Display
* Multi-session Disc Playback
* Folder Name Manual Search Function without Stopping Audio-play
* Supreme
* 0-bit Mute (L/R independent)
* CD Text Ready
* CD-R/CD-RW Compatible
* Random/Repeat/Scan Play

External Media Control Features:-

* Dual External Media Control Capability (with Optional KCA-S210A)
* DNPS (Disc Name Presets) with Compatible CD Changers
* CD Text Ready with Compatible CD Changers
* Random/Repeat/Scan Play (Disc/Track)
* Optional Apple iPod Interface Ready (KCA-iP500)

Tape Features:-

* Full Logic Mechanism
* Dolby-B NR
* Auto-reverse
* Blank Skip/Repeat Play

Tuner Features:-

* FM/AM 24 Station Presets (18FM, 6AM)
* AME (Automatic Memory Entry)
* Up/Down Seek Tuning
* SNPS (Station Name Presets)
* Selectable Channel Spacing

Audio Features:-

* Maximum Output Power : 50W x 4 (MOSFET Power IC)
* 2 Preouts
* Subwoofer Level & Low Pass Filter Adjustable
* SRS WOW
* Built In Amp Mute Function
* System E's+ (Built-in HPF & LPF)
* System Q-Ex: Preset & Full Manual Sound Control
* Separate Bass/Mid range/Treble Control & Source Tone Memory
* AUX Input
* Additional AUX Input with Optional Unit (CA-C1AX or KCA-S210A)
* Dual Zone Source & Volume Control
* Fader & Loudness Control
* Attenuator (-20dB) with Smooth Volume Return




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no need capacitor lah, youre not running a high power system...

also no need rear midbass lah, buy one sub enuff already, can run from same 4ch amp. if u stil want rear speakers, can use back ori speaker and use the head unit's internal power. and no, no need pre amp, stay away....just say no!

i think the kenwood player has more features

tell me something, what exactly is your budget for the whole system and which area are u from?

This post has been edited by zennn: Nov 13 2009, 03:17 PM

me ah ?

got amp liao, got 2 speaker set for front door.
now left
rear speaker, cos my ori persona 1 play until break hole.

so jst think wan change player n get 2 rear speaker. n re do wiring lo.

cos i still not install amp into car yet. maybe send to acc shop lo.
ask them put 4AWG cable. u said 1. 4awg cable.

abt woofer, future plan liao lo
. attach woofer with monoblock amp.

Out of the 2, Pioneer definitely. But that model, eh....... isnt it an old model? If the price is around 1k, better go for Pioneer 8000 or 7000 series. Or Alpine 9887 2nd hand.

Ya 4gage ok liaw. I still think you should get better component speakers for your front and put your old 1s behind. But up to you la. Slow slow......

SVC can have double magnet. But, can DVC have single magnet? TQ..