6000 years ago most of us were destined to be slave to death...Some were destined to be KING...Determinism or Free will is better off to explain this phenomena???

this sounds like a text book question

pardon??? So what is ur opinion??? U believed in free will or determinism which religion usually claim to be true???
Is sound kinda absurb for me to believe determinism...And do u understand the meaning of determinism or free will??

please elaborate for the sake of discussion, your definition of determinism and free will

Determinism : Determinism is the view that every event, including human cognition, behavior, decision, and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences.[1] With numerous historical debates, many varieties and philosophical positions on the subject of determinism exist from traditions throughout the world.
Simple explanation: U are destined to do something, nothing will change..IF u could somehow know u going to die at age 100, nothing will change the fact



Free will:The question of free will is whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions and decisions. Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic. The various philosophical positions taken differ on whether all events are determined or not — determinism versus indeterminism — and also on whether freedom can coexist with determinism or not — compatibilism versus incompatibilism. So, for instance, 'hard determinists' argue that the universe is deterministic, and that this makes free will impossible.
The principle of free will has religious, ethical, and scientific implications. For example, in the religious realm, free will may imply that an omnipotent divinity does not assert its power over individual will and choices. In ethics, it may imply that individuals can be held morally accountable for their actions. In the scientific realm, it may imply that the actions of the body, including the brain and the mind, are not wholly determined by physical causality. The question of free will has been a central issue since the beginning of philosophical thought.
Simple explanation: ur destiny is on ur hand, ur fate cannot be determined by something

i believe in free will...
no one can control yr future and neither should one let others or things(e.g. horoscopes,fate etc) to control it.

This post has been edited by vivienne85: Aug 3 2009, 12:47 PM

Agree, therefore we are not more a slave because we fight back...therefore democracy existed...no one believe a person is destined to be leader will be leader forever...every decision we make count

yup..
cos one may be a king today and tomorrow he will be slave or a pauper when his country is conquered by invading forces..

No. its not a destiny for kings to be kings. 6000 years ago... majority of humans might be simple minded and dumb, but there should be some are born with exceptional EQ/IQ. Those are the people who move up the ranks.. and conjuring up schemes that make the majority of the easily-influenced humans feel awed with them and treat them like God and kings. BUt of course , there are still exceptional people who are kind and belenovent that becomes good kings and rulers.


In modern times, the same pattern emerges... but luckily MOST of the humans are born, and encouraged to get proper education, which makes us good in deciding our destiny and future, and who should lead us . modernity brought a system where no single person can easily "enslave" the rest, unless of course, they are willingly/forcefully to be enslaved and have their mind completely shut off. That is what those dictators are doing, is to keep the people under them to be as simple minded as possible, and closing all possible channels for knowledge outside their own country/domain, just like 6000 years ago. Anyway, the same happens on a small scale everywhere, from a simple as a bogus medium/monk trying to control the believers by putting curse on them if their dunt part with their $$/daughter, to Ayah Pin wannabee.

The rest of the high EQ/IQ people are having enough self conscience to channel their talent somewhere else.. like working and perform researches benefinal to mankind. ONly those with bad/selfish motive resort to evil schemes to control the masses.

This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Aug 3 2009, 01:13 PM

Free will or determinism in which aspect of my life?

Whether or not I can speak? Whether or not I can drink water? Whether or not I can think in a certain manner? Whether or not I can believe in a certain philosophical or religious teaching? Or all of them?

i believe in free will.
i believe that whenever u do something, something else will happen as a result of the thing that has been done. a butterfly effect .

some people wants to rule other people

some people just wants to be ruled

regardless, everyone prefers orderness and hopefully fairness



once in a while ... there some people are born like a key that moves the world

determinism/freewill is an an illusion caused by time. as you cannot go back to change an action, you never know if that action is pre-ordained or as a result of your choice.

ie, there is an objective question that i randomly guessed A after a coin toss. i will never know if i am meant to choose A (determinism) or i am voluntarily choosing A or randomly choosing A (free will)

Hmm.

From the definition here, 'determinism' seems to have the same concept as 'destiny'.

In Islam, we must believe in 'destiny'. That means what has happened, is already being destined by God.
We donno our destiny, we just do by 'free will' and the end results is actually our 'destiny'.

All i can believe is that God know where we're heading, but doesnt mean a word of prophet or fortune teller is reliable....Well, i prefer both of them

If you're talking about the religious aspect of free-will versus determinism...

Some say what we do has already been destined by God. Therefore, if what we do has been destined by God, then God cannot blame us for our sins because He is the one who has decided our actions, including sinning.

Some other people say that God gave us a free will, whereby we will have to follow what God wants us to do through the words of a prophet and/or a holy book and that we will be judged according to how we live our lives in the end times. Some say that a problem with that idea is that if it is true, then we should not be judged by people because God will judge us and since nobody is perfect, people should not judge us.

The debate for this is still on-going.

I'm thinking.... about the Matrix,
You can see it, hear it, feel it, eat and taste it, so is it real?

Now, let's say everything is predetermined. So you get up in the morning because it's already predetermined, then you get hungry because of it's predetermined you'll feel hungry at exactly 7:15AM this morning, and you choose to eat roti canai cause you happen to fancy so today, but little did you know it's actually predetermined you'll choose it... so...

Well I believe in knowledge above all else, so I believe there's an explanation for everything. Thus unless there's a matrix like entity, free will is simply what I'll side with.

agree

Well, u maybe right to question:

Therefore, if what we do has been destined by God, then God cannot blame us for our sins because He is the one who has decided our actions, including sinning.

I believe that God is just. The check and balance of our life will remain the same even if we end up in Hell.

If we are destined to be in hell because of our wrong doings in our lives, it's gonna be a fair game because God already gives us the pleasure when we commit all the wrong doings.

If we study how the prophets before this such as Moses, Jesus and Mohammad, though they will end up in paradise, but look at their lifetime. They suffered so much from the oppositions.

given your logic on the last paragraph.

Christians thinks Jesus is god, Muslims thinks Jesus is not.

There goes your suffering due to opposition.

Who's going to hell?