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 High electricity bills, Advice needed.thks.

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gunh
post Jul 30 2009, 11:08 PM

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ahahhaha.... u guys really creative. but the answer is NO. using bigger cable will not cause the power consumption lower... and the losses in the cable are not significant as well if one take out the cable manufacturer catalogue and study the cable resistivity... However, appropriate cable size selection shall required some calculation to determine it...


QUOTE(am_eniey @ Jul 30 2009, 10:50 PM)
Bro, to make it simple, it's like this. Imagine 100 cars travelling from KL-Penang using the old narrow road. It might take 8 hours or more, waste of fuel due to low gear usage, overtaking at low speed, driving slow at high rpm when preparing for overtaking and more. Well these might increase the engine heat due to the unstable speed and many obstacles but if you take the PLUS highway which is much wider and less resistance, you will reach the destination perhaps within 5 hours with less obstacles, constant speed.

The story goes more or less the same with the cable. The thinner the cable, the less space for the electricity to flow. Due to the electric current travels and the speed of light perhaps, it needs proper wide cable to flow smoothly. The heat that you feel on the cable is the waste of energy due to thin cable. Electric energy converted to heat energy but you don't utilize the heat energy, so it's a waste. Due to the wastage of electric to heat energy that you don't utilize, the machine needs more energy from the DB to fullfil what it needs. If the cable is thick enough where there's less energy conversion happens before it reaches the machine, logically it saves your pocket.
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gunh
post Aug 1 2009, 12:13 AM

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over providing is good off course, but is not optimize... u can go around and ask those competent engineer and i doubt that you idea really save the power consumption. As i said before, the larger cable, the resistivity different are not really significant... Best is to select your house hold equipment properly... for eg selecting an inverter a/c or fridge... as inverter motor will not cause too many start stop which draw huge current... inverter motor varies the speed to maintain or to cool down the temperature...


QUOTE(am_eniey @ Jul 31 2009, 12:15 PM)
Thicker cable is always better. It's just the cost of the cable that matters to most people. It is indeed extra expensive. I spent around RM1K just for the cables only but long term wise, it benefits me.

There are multibillion of electrodes flowing in a cable. If a machines requires 10A, it still gets 10A from any type of cable. The difference is how the 10A is coming through from the DB to the machine, through a thin or a thick cable. Just like billions of cars travelling from KL-Penang at one time for example. Which type of road has lesser resistance, PLUS highway or the old road. KL is the DB, Penang is the machine. The road is the cable. It's not quite a comparison btw but at least it gives a better picture.
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Added on August 1, 2009, 12:16 amyes, u r right! undersizing a/c will cause that... basically ur room required 1.5hp.... if ur room is facing east/west then u might need to consider 2hp... basic formula to sizing a/c is to determine the BTU required.... which is proportion to area.




QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 1 2009, 12:01 AM)
Compressor will be shut down when reaching preset temp by you. So if room is too big, it won't able to reach the temp preset ley day 24, so compressor will run non-stop.

I forget the exact figure, but roughly 1 HP is recommended around the size of 12x12, and 1.5HP is suit at around 18x18

I would say 1.5 HP is the optimum for your case.

Correct me if I am wrong.
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This post has been edited by gunh: Aug 1 2009, 12:16 AM
gunh
post Aug 1 2009, 01:03 PM

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BTU = British Thermal Unit..


Added on August 1, 2009, 1:29 pmTo futher support my previous statement... i've manage to get some technical information from Draka Cable.

For 1.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 12.1 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 2.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 7.41 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 4.0mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 4.6 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr

so by upgrading say 2.5mm sq cable to 4.0mm sq cable, the resistance different is 2.81 ohm for every 1000 mtr or 0.00281 ohm per meter.
and for an average power point in house, the distance are or about 15meter, which work out to be 0.04215 ohm.

u think such small significant can play role in power consumption? And, when u upgrading the cable, u will need to use a bigger cable conduit or casing... which is also cost. However, no doubt each cable be it 1.5, 2.5 or 4.0mm have their own current capacity limitation... and as long the electrical engineer done his calculation + some safety factor, then it should be alright.

Just like ur house Syabas incoming pipe.... dont tell me if u pipe ur whole house to bigger pipe to all ur kitchen or toilet, then ur water bill is less? does not make sense right?





QUOTE(am_eniey @ Jul 31 2009, 12:15 PM)
Thicker cable is always better. It's just the cost of the cable that matters to most people. It is indeed extra expensive. I spent around RM1K just for the cables only but long term wise, it benefits me.

There are multibillion of electrodes flowing in a cable. If a machines requires 10A, it still gets 10A from any type of cable. The difference is how the 10A is coming through from the DB to the machine, through a thin or a thick cable. Just like billions of cars travelling from KL-Penang at one time for example. Which type of road has lesser resistance, PLUS highway or the old road. KL is the DB, Penang is the machine. The road is the cable. It's not quite a comparison btw but at least it gives a better picture.
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Added on August 1, 2009, 1:42 pmTo futher support my previous statement... i've manage to get some technical information from Draka Cable.

For 1.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 12.1 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 2.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 7.41 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 4.0mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 4.6 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr

so by upgrading say 2.5mm sq cable to 4.0mm sq cable, the resistance different is 2.81 ohm for every 1000 mtr or 0.00281 ohm per meter.
and for an average power point in house, the distance are or about 15meter, which work out to be 0.04215 ohm.

u think such small significant can play role in power consumption? And, when u upgrading the cable, u will need to use a bigger cable conduit or casing... which is also cost. However, no doubt each cable be it 1.5, 2.5 or 4.0mm have their own current capacity limitation... and as long the electrical engineer done his calculation + some safety factor, then it should be alright.

Just like ur house Syabas incoming pipe.... dont tell me if u pipe ur whole house to bigger pipe to all ur kitchen or toilet, then ur water bill is less? does not make sense right?





QUOTE(am_eniey @ Jul 31 2009, 12:15 PM)
Thicker cable is always better. It's just the cost of the cable that matters to most people. It is indeed extra expensive. I spent around RM1K just for the cables only but long term wise, it benefits me.

There are multibillion of electrodes flowing in a cable. If a machines requires 10A, it still gets 10A from any type of cable. The difference is how the 10A is coming through from the DB to the machine, through a thin or a thick cable. Just like billions of cars travelling from KL-Penang at one time for example. Which type of road has lesser resistance, PLUS highway or the old road. KL is the DB, Penang is the machine. The road is the cable. It's not quite a comparison btw but at least it gives a better picture.
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This post has been edited by gunh: Aug 1 2009, 01:42 PM
gunh
post Aug 1 2009, 07:25 PM

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cherroy, perhaps the cable u mentioned are already under size at the 1st place... if the cable being selected is appropriate... it will not cause cable crack... unless the wire has been there for more than 20yrs... Engineer always perform their duty to make sure the right choice being made based on technical... from civil, electrical & mechanical engineer... Cable selection shall also consider the derating factor which is determine by type of cable and method of installation... Yes, if selection or choice is wrong, then the cable will generate heat, due to voltage drop issue as well...
gunh
post Aug 2 2009, 11:48 PM

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i think what kenny tring to say is not inverter fluorescent light... should be electronic ballast type... this light do not have starter... Indeed electronic ballast type of fluorescent are not so long lasting from my personnal experience...
gunh
post Aug 6 2009, 12:03 AM

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no logic behind the product... correcting the power factor does not really save energy... as our tariff is based on KiloWatt hour...

and energy cannot be destroy or create... no matter how good u corrected the power factor... P (power) = V (volt) x I (current) x power factor



QUOTE(shchoy @ Aug 5 2009, 06:09 PM)
Anyone tried those "Plug-in Electricity Saver" thingy that says can save like X % of electricity?
Does it really work?
user posted image
www.shchoy.com
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