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 High electricity bills, Advice needed.thks.

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am_eniey
post Jul 27 2009, 10:22 AM

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I own a laundry shop and my bill is just around RM350 per month as a shop rate is higher which is 0.397 sen per unit compared to 0.286 sen per unit for houses. I am running 2 sets of iron, a washer, a dry cleaning machine, a dryer, an air cond, a computer, 3 ceiling fans, 2 billboards with lamp tubes, 7 tube lamps that run from 9am-9pm everyday except on sunday. My secret is installing 10mm cables to each of the machine (washer, dry cleaning machine and iron sets). These thick cables prevent unneccessary waste of electricity through resistance. That's basic physics. My laundry load is more or less the same as a laundry shop that pays RM900 for electricity monthly. I save more electricity therefore I can maintain competitive price for my services.

This post has been edited by am_eniey: Jul 27 2009, 10:23 AM
am_eniey
post Jul 29 2009, 10:31 AM

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@tgeoklin

yes, that's what i was trying to say !
am_eniey
post Jul 30 2009, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 30 2009, 09:40 AM)
Yes, the cable will get hot if too small for the high power tools. But what about if the cable size is more than enough to carry the amp? I think most of our house can carry more than 15amp. Will change to a bigger wire size will I save more?
Example: The vacuum is using 10amp while the 5mm size cable max can carry is 15amp. So the cable size is more than enough to carry the load. If I change to 100mm size cable which can carry max 30amp, will I save more? Will the vacuum using less amp/power if I change to thicker cable? hmm.gif
Change to a better lower resistance copper wire will reduce heat and can carry higher amp. But at here, where I can find this kind of cable? Can I use speaker cable or audio cable since it is the best conductive cable. thumbup.gif
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Bro, to make it simple, it's like this. Imagine 100 cars travelling from KL-Penang using the old narrow road. It might take 8 hours or more, waste of fuel due to low gear usage, overtaking at low speed, driving slow at high rpm when preparing for overtaking and more. Well these might increase the engine heat due to the unstable speed and many obstacles but if you take the PLUS highway which is much wider and less resistance, you will reach the destination perhaps within 5 hours with less obstacles, constant speed.

The story goes more or less the same with the cable. The thinner the cable, the less space for the electricity to flow. Due to the electric current travels and the speed of light perhaps, it needs proper wide cable to flow smoothly. The heat that you feel on the cable is the waste of energy due to thin cable. Electric energy converted to heat energy but you don't utilize the heat energy, so it's a waste. Due to the wastage of electric to heat energy that you don't utilize, the machine needs more energy from the DB to fullfil what it needs. If the cable is thick enough where there's less energy conversion happens before it reaches the machine, logically it saves your pocket.
am_eniey
post Jul 31 2009, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Jul 30 2009, 11:08 PM)
ahahhaha.... u guys really creative.  but the answer is NO.  using bigger cable will not cause the power consumption lower... and the losses in the cable are not significant as well if one take out the cable manufacturer catalogue and study the cable resistivity...  However, appropriate cable size selection shall required some calculation to determine it...
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I prove it with my own electricity bill.
am_eniey
post Jul 31 2009, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 31 2009, 12:03 PM)
Thanks for your explanation am_eniey. I understand the wire current flow capacity between small wire and thick wire. What I still don't understand is will a thicker wire have benefit if ordinary wire is enough for the appliance power? If in imaginery way, the highway already have extra 20-30% capicity to accomodate the car, build another few lane will make the car reach the destination faster?

What I can imagine is, the appliance using 10A current and the wire suppose to carry 10A current. Because of the wire small and high resistance, some current lost to the heat a long the wire and actually is supplying maybe 1A or 2A extra in order the appliance can get 10A. Is this what you mean?
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Thicker cable is always better. It's just the cost of the cable that matters to most people. It is indeed extra expensive. I spent around RM1K just for the cables only but long term wise, it benefits me.

There are multibillion of electrodes flowing in a cable. If a machines requires 10A, it still gets 10A from any type of cable. The difference is how the 10A is coming through from the DB to the machine, through a thin or a thick cable. Just like billions of cars travelling from KL-Penang at one time for example. Which type of road has lesser resistance, PLUS highway or the old road. KL is the DB, Penang is the machine. The road is the cable. It's not quite a comparison btw but at least it gives a better picture.

This post has been edited by am_eniey: Jul 31 2009, 12:18 PM
am_eniey
post Aug 1 2009, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(gunh @ Aug 1 2009, 01:03 PM)
BTU = British Thermal Unit..


Added on August 1, 2009, 1:29 pmTo futher support my previous statement... i've manage to get some technical information from Draka Cable. 

For 1.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 12.1 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 2.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 7.41 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 4.0mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 4.6 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr

so by upgrading say 2.5mm sq cable to 4.0mm sq cable, the resistance different is 2.81 ohm for every 1000 mtr or 0.00281 ohm per meter.
and for an average power point in house, the distance are or about 15meter, which work out to be 0.04215 ohm.

u think such small significant can play role in power consumption?  And, when u upgrading the cable, u will need to use a bigger cable conduit or casing... which is also cost.  However, no doubt each cable be it 1.5, 2.5 or 4.0mm have their own current capacity limitation... and as long the electrical engineer done his calculation + some safety factor, then it should be alright.

Just like ur house Syabas incoming pipe.... dont tell me if u pipe ur whole house to bigger pipe to all ur kitchen or toilet, then ur water bill is less?  does not make sense right?

Added on August 1, 2009, 1:42 pmTo futher support my previous statement... i've manage to get some technical information from Draka Cable. 

For 1.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 12.1 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 2.5mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 7.41 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr
For 4.0mm sq cable, the conductor resistance is 4.6 ohm for every 1 kilometer / 1000mtr

so by upgrading say 2.5mm sq cable to 4.0mm sq cable, the resistance different is 2.81 ohm for every 1000 mtr or 0.00281 ohm per meter.
and for an average power point in house, the distance are or about 15meter, which work out to be 0.04215 ohm.

u think such small significant can play role in power consumption?  And, when u upgrading the cable, u will need to use a bigger cable conduit or casing... which is also cost.  However, no doubt each cable be it 1.5, 2.5 or 4.0mm have their own current capacity limitation... and as long the electrical engineer done his calculation + some safety factor, then it should be alright.

Just like ur house Syabas incoming pipe.... dont tell me if u pipe ur whole house to bigger pipe to all ur kitchen or toilet, then ur water bill is less?  does not make sense right?
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Electricity flow is not the same as water flow. You can elaborate this as I can see that you know better.
am_eniey
post Aug 5 2009, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 3 2009, 09:24 AM)
The aircon inverter not comeout just 4yrs. This technology is quite long time. It just arrive here few yrs ago but not others country. They already have inverter type long ago. We are not advance country. It depend on manufacturing when is the right time to market here.
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but no matter when it was introduced, it saves my pocket every month.

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