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 How to get started to invest in property?

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SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 15 2009, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 15 2009, 02:54 PM)
KIP Park?
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Hehe. rclxms.gif


Added on July 15, 2009, 3:23 pm
QUOTE(babana @ Jul 15 2009, 03:11 PM)
jason, assuming ur sis took 90% loan (abt RM98k), ur repayment works out to abt RM443 a mth (based on BLR-2.0, 30 yr tenure). add maintenance fee of RM132 in and it'll set u back RM575 a mth. assuming mthly rental of RM900 fully furnished (conservative abit la...hehe). ur mthly cash inflow is RM325, which works out to RM3900 a yr. if u n ur sis decides to sell the hse after 5 yrs, u would've gotten RM20k in rental yield + cap gains whereas ur sis would only receive the cap gains + her equivalent of d/p back although she paid the d/p upfront!

hmmm...this agreement seems to be loopsided to u la, ur sis is losing out!! tongue.gif
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I see it as a win-win situation.
If we sell after 5 years, with some slight modification to the numbers.

Cost RM110k.
DP RM11k.
Cost of acquisition RM8k.
Sell at market RM142k.
Amortization is ignore at the moment.

Get back cash of RM142k - RM110k + RM11k = RM43k

Return to sis RM19k, balance RM24k.
Sis gets profit of RM12k after 5 years by investing RM19k.
Not bad for getting 13% return on investment every year.
She only needs to fork out the money and I get all the work done, including the mortgage.

Not to forget we have some equity in the armortization. wink.gif

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 15 2009, 03:23 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 15 2009, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(babana @ Jul 15 2009, 03:34 PM)
haha, well analysed and said  rclxms.gif
i have a question though - the cost of acquisition RM8k...what would this payment be for? legal fees, s&p, etc or fees relating to processing for an auction property?

have never dabbled in any auction properties before but RM8k seems pretty steep, considering the property in question is only RM110k.
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RM8k is an estimation, it should be around 7~8k.

The break down:

Agent RM3k
Lawyer + tax RM4k
Miscellaneous RM1k

I pay my agent additional RM1k for them to bid on my behalf.
If you can DIY, the price will be 4~5k.
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 15 2009, 04:50 PM

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For me it's ok? Weird.

Any other forumer have this problem?
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 15 2009, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 15 2009, 04:45 PM)
Wow, congrats. How do you manage to find low price property? How to look for auction property? Where to go to auction for property?
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Thanks.

How to find?
I learn this from Rich Dad 6 steps, look at 20 properties every week.
Remember looking at property is not the first step, that is step number 3.

Low price property are everywhere but you don't want to look at all of them.
Most are in a bad area hence their low price.
Thus need to go back to step 2, finding an area.


As for auction, there are valuable thread in Lowyat about auction.
Some books also do write about it.


Added on July 15, 2009, 4:58 pm
QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 15 2009, 04:45 PM)

Wow, congrats. How do you manage to find low price property? How to look for auction property? Where to go to auction for property?
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Thanks.

How to find?
I learn this from Rich Dad 6 steps, look at 20 properties every week.
Remember looking at property is not the first step, that is step number 3.

Low price property are everywhere but you don't want to look at all of them.
Most are in a bad area hence their low price.
Thus need to go back to step 2, finding an area.


As for auction, there are valuable thread in Lowyat about auction.
Some books also do write about it.

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 15 2009, 04:58 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 16 2009, 10:41 AM

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Try to search for yourself, especially google. wink.gif

From Ongkl blog.
http://reijb.com/must-know-auction-property/
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 16 2009, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 15 2009, 03:31 PM)
Hehe not bad...  biggrin.gif
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Nearby there.
Villa Ros to be exact.

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user posted image

SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 16 2009, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 16 2009, 01:18 PM)
I found some auctions on TheStar Classified.  smile.gif
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More than 50% are in bad area. Searching auction property is not 1st of the 6 step. blush.gif
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 16 2009, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 16 2009, 02:17 PM)
jasonhjk: thanks a lot for your sharing, bit of "censorship" won't hurt there. And the Ongkl blog is good =)

Was not aware of Villa Ros before, have only did a bit of homework on Pulai View, Prima regency (lots of homework), straits view and kip park...
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Hehe.
The censor part are only the location and agent contacts.
It's really amusing seeing someone giving bad advice, phoeni and I knows that. cool2.gif
When you meet some other agents or investors whom lied and don't admit their mistake.
It's time to kick them out of your team. Their advise is the worst you can hear.

I can spot free advice that are worthy of hearing once my experience level goes up. wink.gif


Here is the raw picture.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8524/saleprice2.jpg


Here is another ongkl blog about JB's apartment.
Best and worst apartments/condominiums of year 2008 in Johor Bahru


Added on July 16, 2009, 5:35 pm
QUOTE(Phoeni_142 @ Jul 16 2009, 02:36 PM)
Jason - elegantly and beautifully done.  Specific smile.gif And your censorship is kinda cute, but justified lah....
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Thanks.
I always look up your post when buying property.
What get me going is knowing you went out to look for properties with your Mrs.
Which I have been slacking when starting out.

So when is the next one coming up? thumbup.gif


Added on July 16, 2009, 5:38 pm
QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 16 2009, 04:06 PM)
Sigh, long story... forced to move to JB because of work... so have to do homework lo...
Anyway this Prima Regency is really something interesting, price 100-110k, rental basic unit RM 700, fully furnished RM 1000...

I was so amazed when I first found out about this... (imagine my 200k condo in PJ only getting me 1k also...)
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Prima is near Giant and Tesco.
The shop houses nearby are still close though.
Maybe I am wrong about the shops because I only passes by there at night.

So are those staying there working in Singapore or working nearby?

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 16 2009, 05:38 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 16 2009, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 16 2009, 05:44 PM)
Mostly working in singapore or pasir gudang  smile.gif
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No wonder the high rental.

So far I have only notice 1 Prima unit being auction, shouldn't the price be higher?
Or we are not referring to the same unit? hmm.gif


Ref No: PAHJ2383(1)

Auction Date: 24/06/2009
Auction Place: Suite No. 1602, 16th Floor, City Plaza, Johor Bahru
Auction Time: 3.00 pm
Property Description: three bedroom apartment
Land/Floor Area: 1050 Sq. Feet.
Property Address: #03-02, Block 7 (Wembley Court), Prima Regency Service Apartment, Jalan Masai Baru, 81750 Masai, Johor darul Takzim.

Reserve Price (RM): RM 140,000.00
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 17 2009, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(Phoeni_142 @ Jul 16 2009, 07:36 PM)
You flatter me, kind sir.  tongue.gif I am not worthy of that compliment.

To be honest, I have been "dormant" for the last 4 or 5 months.  Work has been bad....But i'm sure everyone goes through that pain as well.  We still do go out on most weekends to scout around. 

The next deal we want to close has to be done right.  There is no margin for error, due to the larger numbers involved.  As such, we've been awfully stringent.  

Good to know u did well in your last deal.  Congrats bro.
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The bigger the number, the longer time needed to put the deal together.
Once all the due diligence is done, the likelihood it will go wrong will be low.
I bet it feels just like going through your first deal, that type of nervous and anxious feeling. nod.gif

At the area I am concentrating, interestingly the rental went up.
With less buyers in the market, I am actually having fun shopping.
Since last month, 3 Sri Akasia apartment auction that I have interest in, were call off.
The owners pay the bank 1 day before auction date.
They believe after the recovery, price will go up.
Their sentiments is a good indication for me even though I didn't manage to play landlord and evict them. sweat.gif

My first deal didn't went too well, I make the mistake of agreeing the seller to transfer the tittle directly to me from the developer's bank. Saving the seller a few thousand.
Till today I have not get the keys.

Last month I just have my agent install a few AC (and other installation) to jack the rent up to RM800.
So starting from this month, I get RM200 and the owner gets RM600.
It's interesting how much one can learn by doing deals. blush.gif


Added on July 17, 2009, 1:26 pm
QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 16 2009, 05:58 PM)
Me talking about studio units  smile.gif
560++ sqf only, so far only heard of 2 auction units but both were called off  sad.gif
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If you can get the 1050 sq ft apartment for RM140k, that would be a steal.

Works out to be RM133 per sq ft.


560 sq ft for RM110k would get you around RM196 per sq ft.

Looking at the sq ft is important for comparing / analyzing deals.

Do you know how much is the rent for 1050 sq ft?

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 17 2009, 01:26 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 17 2009, 10:58 PM

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Huh, interesting.

Studio unit trend is picking up among young professionals.
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 17 2009, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 16 2009, 09:36 PM)
Thanks for the tips. Today I bought Azizi Ali "How to pay off your house loan in 5 years or less". It is a good small little book. smile.gif

I also notice that those listed in TheStar Classified is not that good.
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Well, at least you will learn how loans work. flex.gif

For me I don't intend to pay off my loan for my property.
I would either re-finance every 5 years or flip it.
Taking the equity out and re-invest it.
That is part of my plan.
If you don't understand why, just act as though you do. (LOL) doh.gif

Speaking of which, Investing is a plan.
There are people out there that buys a property and later sell it for a profit.
Later they would continue the cycle again with another property.

There is nothing wrong for flipping properties but flipping alone is not called investing.
Without a plan, they are pushing the wheelbarrow.
And again, if you don't understand, just act as though you do.
Few years ago I don't understand lesson #4 until early this year.

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This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 17 2009, 11:48 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 19 2009, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 18 2009, 06:06 PM)
Hi, great post.

It is not easy to find a good real estate for investment. I am looking at one in Kuching area but I think that it is over-priced. Most houses in Kuching is over-priced. I am not sure hwy it is so expensive in Kuching. hmm.gif
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I am not very sure regarding the market there, but if you can find an investor in that area.
Talk with him, ask him out and treat him lunch.
You'll learn much more. smile.gif

SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 21 2009, 08:55 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Jul 20 2009, 12:15 AM)
Wanna have lunch?  thumbup.gif
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You in JB? brows.gif
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 21 2009, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(lainux @ Jul 21 2009, 11:26 AM)
KL..  vmad.gif
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You are lucky.
There are more investor in KL compare to JB. wink.gif
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 21 2009, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(ecVk @ Jul 21 2009, 03:56 PM)
Lol. Whats so lucky about that?
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That is because so far I only spotted one investor whom have more experience than me in JB. blush.gif

If go KL, I might want to meet up with the others. rclxms.gif
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 21 2009, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Backkom @ Jul 21 2009, 05:10 PM)
Should come up this weekend... got "luxury" property fair + free talks  rclxms.gif
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Eh?

I thought you stay in JB? rclxub.gif
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 24 2009, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 23 2009, 04:39 PM)
Hi again,
From what I read in Azizi Ali's book, he said if we have RM100k, we can theoretically control 10 properties of RM100k each by putting down payment RM10k. That is theoretically.

So, I would like to ask you some questions:
1. Since you have been working as an employee, how much money do you need to get started in real estate investment?
2. How much money or income per month in order for the bank to give us loan?
3. Since you do not plan to pay off the loan, then would you feel that you have a lot of debt?

I know that Rich Dad technique is to control debt carefully and use it as a tool to become very rich. The problem is that if we do not have a lot of income per month, how could we get loan and from the bank?

I feel lost.. Please help. Thanks.  smile.gif


Added on July 23, 2009, 5:14 pm

I saw this book and it was at Sale in Popular. I bought another book by Azizi Ali "How to remain an employee and still become a millionaire".

This is a good book and I haven't finish reading it. I get it at RM35+.
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1. For starters, starting with DP X 2 will be reasonable. After you get the property, you need some cash in case you make a mistake. For example, you neglect your due diligence and the piping burst. Hence forking out a big sum to drill the piping up from the concrete. Try to start a small deal, prefer less that RM100k.

2. Depends on how much loan you are borrowing. Some banks use the thumb of rule a third of your salary for your loan payment. If your salary is RM3k, the loan that you take must not exceed RM1k for your monthly payment.

3. I know the difference between good debt and bad debt. Most people cannot tell the difference that is why they are in big trouble. Same goes for an asset and liability, both have good and bad.

If your income is less than RM2500, start a small deal by buying a low cost flat.
Don't be like me, salary too high and want to buy a flat. vmad.gif

It's good to hear you are buying more books to read but I like to caution you.
Start small and take baby steps, take your time to read or listen 2 audio books per week.
Don't do over excessive or you would burn out and give up. nod.gif


Added on July 24, 2009, 1:55 pm
QUOTE(rakyat @ Jul 24 2009, 11:16 AM)
Very good question which I have been asking around but could not get a reasonable answer. Most property investment 'guru' preach bout leverage on bank loan by putting up only 10% d/p or 0% d/p and using rental income to pay the installment.

This sounds good on paper but will only work for your 1st property or up to 2nd property. After that the bank will refuse your loan since u r already tied down with too much loan repayment based on your monthly income. Correct me if I'm wrong but rental income is not considered by the bank.

Si-fus pls. enlighten a  wannabe property investor
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If your previous unit are being rented out, you need to let them see your leases.
The bank will discount your rental by 25% and if it still exceeds your expenses, the bank will very glad to loan you again.

Example, your rental is RM1000 and after discount is RM750.
If your expenses is less that RM750, the bank will consider your salary as though you have not make any loan before.


Added on July 24, 2009, 1:57 pm
QUOTE(brutus @ Jul 24 2009, 12:45 PM)
there is no short cut about this. you need to "learn" along the way eventhough you read 1,000 books on property investment.
I use to thought that way too but found out later how wrong I am.
The real learning is by doing the real thing. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Jul 24 2009, 01:57 PM
SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 24 2009, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Jul 24 2009, 02:54 PM)

forums like this can shorthen one's learning curve as well.  wink.gif
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You are right Pai.
Here is the cone of learning.

By participating in the discussion, we retain 70% what we learn after 2 weeks.

By reading books alone, 10% only.

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SUSjasonhanjk
post Jul 24 2009, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Jul 24 2009, 09:07 PM)
This is a good diagram. I remember Robert Kiyosaki mentioned it before.  smile.gif
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In his book Financial IQ. blush.gif

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