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Environmental Science Global-warming in Science POV

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SUS99chan
post Jul 11 2009, 03:26 PM, updated 17y ago

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lets just forget about the political ideology, the political activists and all that bureaucracies.

and see it at a scientific stand point. the verifiable, empirical and testable stand point.

they say co2 is the main climate driver in the rise of temperature.

but what if its the reverse is the correct order?

is it the cosmic rays that generate clouds in turn cause the changes in temperature due to increasing temperature on sun, and thus interrupting the flow of subatomic particles and cosmic rays to enter earth to form clouds?

or is it the growing gravity field? or the cause of/by post-glacial rebound?

This post has been edited by 99chan: Jul 11 2009, 03:29 PM
nxfx
post Jul 11 2009, 03:46 PM

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co2 causes green house effect which in turn rise the earth temperature.

QUOTE
is it the cosmic rays that generate clouds in turn cause the changes in temperature due to increasing temperature on sun, and thus interrupting the flow of subatomic particles and cosmic rays to enter earth to form clouds?

or is it the growing gravity field? or the cause of/by post-glacial rebound?


is this a fact or just your point of view.

is there scientific indication that the temperature of the sun is rising?
do you mean gravity field or magnetic field ?
SUS99chan
post Jul 11 2009, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(nxfx @ Jul 11 2009, 03:46 PM)
co2 causes green house effect which in turn rise the earth temperature.
is this a fact or just your point of view.
is there scientific indication that the temperature of the sun is rising?
yes. but it is feasible the other way around as well.

the rise in earth's temperature could well be due to lack of clouds and hence the natural cooling system is rendered because the lack of rain.

its merely my point of view and some ideas gathered from documentaries.

QUOTE(nxfx @ Jul 11 2009, 03:46 PM)
do you mean gravity field or magnetic field ?
yes, magnetic field.

i may be wrong, but its just a stimulant for a discussion.


here is an old interesting documentary about the fallacy of global warming.

and here is a link to the faults of the documentary.

you be the judge.

kaika
post Jul 12 2009, 01:06 AM

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CO2 also acts as insulation, so less heat would be release from Earth.
Kellyyhx
post Jul 20 2009, 08:52 PM

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SO2 is also 1 of the major factor as a source from car exhaust pipe.
0606088
post Jul 21 2009, 11:50 AM

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"as long as we exhale tOo much than wat we inhale, there is glObal warming."
SUShako
post Jul 26 2009, 12:12 AM

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i read it somewhere about Global warming, its a totally natural phenomenon, in fact, global warming had happen since ice age. earth has undergo a constant heating curve since then, and the activities of human just merely catalyses the process.
vivienne85
post Jul 26 2009, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(hako @ Jul 26 2009, 12:12 AM)
i read it somewhere about Global warming, its a totally natural phenomenon, in fact, global warming had happen since ice age. earth has undergo a constant heating curve since then, and the activities of human just merely catalyses the process.
*
we do need greenhouses gases but in the right amount to maintain the heat needed on earth to sustain life...
however,human activities accelerated the production of these gases..thereby global warming
SUSsoundsyst64
post Jul 26 2009, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(99chan @ Jul 11 2009, 03:26 PM)

is it the cosmic rays that generate clouds in turn cause the changes in temperature due to increasing temperature on sun, and thus interrupting the flow of subatomic particles and cosmic rays to enter earth to form clouds?
*
there might possibility that earth's magnetic field is getting weaker. so more solar wild from outer space enters and heats up the earth. hmm.gif
xcen
post Jul 26 2009, 08:17 PM

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Global warming is a natural phenomenon, but it is already undeniable that human activities are making a global warming that is far too serious.
darksider
post Jul 27 2009, 07:15 PM

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Whether you believe or not, global warming is nothing but a piece of lie. You have two options, you either believe that global warming is inevitable and live in fears, or you treat it as a lie told by the world for profit. No second options exist, no in this earth.

http://www.whale.to/b/global_warming_h.html
mois
post Aug 2 2009, 03:51 PM

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Technologies can be invented to suck out most of the co2 gas to the outer space.
cherroy
post Aug 2 2009, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Aug 2 2009, 03:51 PM)
Technologies can be invented to suck out most of the co2 gas to the outer space.
*
LOL, eventually human kind or creature will out of O2 laugh.gif and we have massive extinction from animal to plants.

CO2 is a nature cyclical process that exist, just with industrialised age, people converted and produced more CO2 compared to last time by burning fossil fuels or converted natural sources to energy form.

Naturally there are mechanism to absorb back the CO2 from ocean, to plants etc. Just human kind might offset the balance of it with industrialised age.
charlie_gen
post Aug 4 2009, 01:53 AM

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isn't there will be the time when the co2 emission will be overproduce and reluctantly human or organics will cope with it or is it the production of co2 much more superior than human adaption towards co2..well it is my pov and i do think that global warming will not be the main cause of human extinction..
Gr3yL3gion
post Sep 9 2009, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE
Sunspot link to climate patterns overshadowed by CO2 research
Most of us wouldn’t know by looking at it, but the sun has been in a record breaking mode lately for its lack of activity.

It’s a trend that Charlie Perry, a scientist at the U.S. Geological Survey, follows closely. For the past few decades he has been charting the correlation between droughts and floods in the Midwest and the activity of the sun.

Charlie Perry is a research hydrologist with the U.S. Geological Survey. For decades he has been following the correlation of sun activity and climate.

It is from that research that Perry predicts that the current lack of sun activity could lead to a cooler winter this year and drought conditions around 2043.

The sun goes through a cycle of activity about every 11 years. And right now, it is going through what is known as a solar minimum, a time of little activity with few sunspots, solar flares and sun quakes.

Through Aug. 31, 51 days had gone by with no signs of a sunspot. It was the fifth longest period for days without sunspots in 150 years. And, it came close to breaking a record set in 1913.

The sun is still on track to break a record for the fewest number of sunspotless days over a three-year period.

“It’s pretty hard to ignore the big orange ball in the sky that produces all the heat the earth has. And, very small fluctuations in that can make a big difference in our earth and climate,” Perry said.

Explaining sunspots

Sunspots are the dark areas of cooler temperatures in the sun’s photosphere. During times that the number of sunspots are at their highest, temperatures are hotter and the sun is releasing more energy.

First seen by Galileo, sunspots have been tracked by humans since the 1600s.

From 1640 to 1715, when few sunspots were reported, the northern hemisphere experienced what was known as the Little Ice Age. Londoners ice skated on the frozen Thames and people could walk from Manhattan to Staten Island on ice.

Another period of few sunspots occurred in 1913.

“And, that is a time when old-timers talk about it being really cold,” Perry said.

Perry’s interest in weather began as a youth working on a farm in Douglas County during the drought of the 1950s.

“I would sit on the back of this old horse-drawn equipment and I would pray for rain and it would never come,” he said.

Perry, who has a background in physics, was a meteorologist for the Air Force and started working for the USGS in the 1970s as a hydrologist.

Since the early 1980s, Perry has been looking at patterns to see how the sun’s activity relates to droughts and floods in the Midwest.

What he knew was that the sun has an 11-year-cycle, there is a 22 year-cycle for magnetic polarity and major droughts in Kansas occur about every 20 years.

With that, Perry developed a thesis that when the sun is very active, it puts out more heat and causes fewer clouds. In turn, the oceans heat up and carry that warmth throughout the world, influencing local weather patterns.

The tricky part was figuring out the lag time between when the solar activity occurred and when the ocean currents reached North America to affect the weather system.

The 34-year link came by happenstance.

“I had (looked) at a three- or four-year lag. And I just happened to lay them down on a table, two sheets fairly far apart and looked at them and went ‘my gosh, it’s over a 30-year lag.’ And, I lined it up on the light table and it just fit like a glove,” he said. “I had a hard time explaining a three-year lag. So, how can I explain a 34-year lag? It’s been a slow process.”

An unpopular theory

Perry has traveled around speaking at conferences, gathering new ideas and information along the way. He says his work supports that of a renowned Danish physicist Henrick Svensmark.

Svensmark’s research shows that cosmic rays generate cloud formations. Therefore, during periods when solar activity is high, which slows down the number of cosmic rays entering the atmosphere, there are fewer clouds and the earth warms. This phenomenon, Svensmark has argued, contributed to the warming of the planet in the past century.

Perry and Svensmark’s work runs counter to the mainstream belief that carbon dioxide is the major cause of climate change.

Perry — a man who has an electric wind generator and once tried to make a solar collector out of 10,000 beer cans in the 1970s — still attempts to conserve energy for the sake of conserving energy.

“I’m a green guy,” he said. “It’s just that carbon dioxide has very little effect on our climate.”

The United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change disagrees. The panel has stated that solar radiation plays a small part in the warming and cooling of the planet. But, the panel attributes a much greater contribution to the effect from the increase in carbon emissions over the past few decades.

When looking at fluctuations in the earth’s atmosphere, David Braaten, Kansas University professor of atmospheric science, said the largest factor has been the enormous increase in carbon dioxide versus the ebbs and flows of the sun’s 11-year cycle.

“Basically, we have a long record of little changes going on in the atmosphere and there is this other huge change of concentration of (carbon dioxide). To try to explain that it has nothing to do with (climate change) is crazy,” Braaten said.

Perry knows his and Svensmark’s theory isn’t a popular one.

Even the USGS’s official point of view is that carbon dioxide is unequivocally the cause of climate change. Because of that, much of the research Perry has done has been on his own time and without the aid of grants.

Despite the doubters, Perry said he is not giving up.

“I am having too much fun,” he said. “I am finding out something new that no one else is finding out.”


http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/07/g...eceived-coolly/

Another school of thought that doesn't link global warming with the increased amount of CO2.
rexis
post Sep 12 2009, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(hako @ Jul 26 2009, 12:12 AM)
i read it somewhere about Global warming, its a totally natural phenomenon, in fact, global warming had happen since ice age. earth has undergo a constant heating curve since then, and the activities of human just merely catalyses the process.
*
It is certainly not natural when:
- endless queues of traffic jam during peak hours everyday in nearly every city
- endless black smoke from factories
- industrial area river/drain water in thick black colour

The list goes on, human can spend all their time blaming the nature and continue doing what they good at.

When we get pass the point of no return, it is irreversible.
happy4ever
post Sep 16 2009, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(rexis @ Sep 12 2009, 12:10 AM)
It is certainly not natural when:
- endless queues of traffic jam during peak hours everyday in nearly every city
- endless black smoke from factories
- industrial area river/drain water in thick black colour

The list goes on, human can spend all their time blaming the nature and continue doing what they good at.

When we get pass the point of no return, it is irreversible.
*
On the contrary, the only thing that is irreversible is our lives.

The world still continue to live. We would be just another passing phase of extinct creatures like the dinosaurs. Did the earth die? No.
New things will be formed.

So regardless of how we pollute the earth, equilibrium will set in, and nature will still takes its course regardless of our existence.
SUSDickson Poon
post Sep 17 2009, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Sep 16 2009, 12:47 AM)
On the contrary, the only thing that is irreversible is our lives.

The world still continue to live. We would be just another passing phase of extinct creatures like the dinosaurs. Did the earth die? No.
New things will be formed.

So regardless of how we pollute the earth, equilibrium will set in, and nature will still takes its course regardless of our existence.
*
Well, the point is that we do need to take care of the earth and its biodiversity in order to live on as a healthy species, in fact to even have a future at all.

Or else, things will be very bleak. For us. And I guess some people can accept that, but I cannot. sad.gif


Added on September 17, 2009, 7:21 pm
QUOTE(99chan @ Jul 11 2009, 03:26 PM)
lets just forget about the political ideology, the political activists and all that bureaucracies.

and see it at a scientific stand point. the verifiable, empirical and testable stand point.

they say co2 is the main climate driver in the rise of temperature.

but what if its the reverse is the correct order?

is it the cosmic rays that generate clouds in turn cause the changes in temperature due to increasing temperature on sun, and thus interrupting the flow of subatomic particles and cosmic rays to enter earth to form clouds?

or is it the growing gravity field? or the cause of/by post-glacial rebound?
*
You can't separate global warming from the politics because this is exactly what it is about.

All of a sudden all these alternative theories pop up... and while they should be investigated, there is a very high chance that they're just here to obfuscate understanding in an endless sea of scientific minutae.

Global warming isn't just about the environment. It is also about the industrial and financial hegemony of the western world over Asia and Africa, which allows them such a HUGE carbon footprint... and now with our development they fear how things are getting out of control. So now this thing has become another bargaining chip between governments and blocs.

I also believe that a lot of the people who formulate policies in the Anglo-American bloc sure as hell don't give a shit about the health of the planet and its people. That's why they're seeing solutions in morally bankrupt ideas like population control.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Sep 17 2009, 07:21 PM
BFGWong
post Oct 1 2009, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(rexis @ Sep 12 2009, 12:10 AM)
It is certainly not natural when:
- endless queues of traffic jam during peak hours everyday in nearly every city
- endless black smoke from factories
- industrial area river/drain water in thick black colour
*
Erm, writting on a forum in front of a computer in a house with the light, aircon/ fan on about all this is not that natural either. Try telling other people under a tree (without fire, for fire emits smokes and therefore is not that natural either) while biting on some sinewy raw meat instead

Anyway, there aren't that many endlessly smoking factories these days, only a lof of enlessly smoking people.
Same about river being thick black colour - I see more people sitting around a table drinking bottles of the thick black bottleful of goodness.

This post has been edited by BFGWong: Oct 1 2009, 10:42 PM
eldoral
post Oct 1 2009, 11:10 PM

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let just say we ask all people that smoking to quit.. hows that sound?

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