Hi guys,

Let talk about the filters effect .. does it really useful for you? when u will and will not use uv, cpl, etc filter?

does a expensive filter like B+W 010M MRC XS- PRO UV HAZE Filter really make difference if compared to cheap hoya uv hmc filter?

let talk about it! .. ..

This post has been edited by Seng_Kiat: Jun 28 2009, 04:20 PM

I'm using B+W XS-Pro filters exclusively on all my lenses. They are slim, and very easy to clean compare to those Hoya SHMCs I used to own.

Quality wise, I have to admit... UV filters are the same. I don't know how durable are they as I don't do drop/smash test on my filters. But I will stick to B+W just for the ease to clean them. Hoya filters are really PITA to clean; often leaves smudges and clean marks all over the filter surface.

So, all UV filters have the same output no matter expensive or cheap 1? .. the differences are material, and built quality?

actually, I am thinking to get a UV filter for my lens .. but have not decide yet should I go to expensive or just cheapo one .. thinking of get one 77mm uv filter with a few step down rings to fit my lenses .. good idea?..

standard lens go for cheap filter ie. Hoya ... prime lens go for expensive filter ie. B+W

it is advisable to get step up ring to mount 77mm filter if financial constraint

is there any different in photo quality if compared hoya uv hmc filter vs hoya pro 1?

am don't see any different (to my naked eye) except the price ... can consider get Hoya HD UV but more pricy

can u see any difference between the shutter speed of 1/500 and 1/2000?

i can see different between 30s and 1/8000s

dont know bout Hoya,
but... ultra cheapo makes diff.

that's big big different ... go go go buy B+W

besides the reflection, the glare control also important.
try use cheapo filter point to fluorescent tube , and compare to more expensive filter.

bad analogy

Which gives the best image quality?

Cheap filter, expensive filter or no filter.

UV filters are a conspiracy =p

UV filter functions the same, but it differs from one another on its image quality. Best bet is to get a multicoated one, and get the top of the line if you could afford it. I would suggest you stay away from normal B+W and Hoya... get the MRC/SHMC version at least.

It is not a good idea to use step-down rings... you won't fit in the original lens hood to the lens. you may share filters but I would rather plan my lens lineup wisely... I keep only lenses with 77mm diameter

i did a quick comparison lately when my friend drop by. I try to get the similar angle, sorry didn't use tripod, but i think it's pretty accurate. Result were consistent even though i change angle



guess which is which

what your eyes cant see doesnt mean what your sensor/film can't see
duh

First, can you explain what your test exactly is?

second from left does look most natural .. btw, what filters were used for the test? .. ..

UV filters are usually used primarily for protecting the front elements of the lens. There's not much difference in IQ when used in most conditions but cheapo UV filters will tend to give you more problems such as flaring and ghosting when the situation arises.

My Hoya UV filter will sometimes give bad ghosting, reflecting sources of light that is outside of the frame.

Good UV filters will give you lesser problems with flaring and ghosting but the best IQ you can get is without using any filters. How to tell? Just take off your lens filter and look at the front elements of your lens. Can you see much reflections on it? Now mount your filter and look at it again. See the amount of reflections that is visible now. The more reflective the filter is, the more problems it will give you with flaring and ghosting.

Your lens elements is specially coated to minimise problems like flaring or ghosting. That's why they are expensive. Mounting a filter kind of negates the coating's effect on your lens because the glass on the filter will probably not have as good a coating as your lens has.

It's a trade off. Most will bear with a little loss of IQ to protect the lens. Most would rather throw away a filter than a lens. Imagine if a drop of soft drink landed on your lens. Wouldn't you prefer the acid in the soft drink to destroy your filter's coating than your lens' coating?

This post has been edited by shootkk: Jun 29 2009, 09:35 AM

i still prefer to have filter ... to protect my lens if accidentally drops my camera and to cover my lens from rain drops during raining day photo shooting

Thank you very much for a good explnation. .. So, I have decided to get a mid range uv filter for my 67mm and 77mm instead of getting high end 77mm and use step down ring to fit 67mm .. ..

Thanks bro for the information.

quite obvious there are couple of images, and i also asked which is which filter and i also mention comparison... so in short, different filters were used for each images to prove differences in filter.

here's the filter used



conclusion, rank of filters

1) Hoya HD
2) B+w (alloy)
3) Hoya Pro1
4) No filter
5) Hoya HMC

the ranks also correspond to the price paid i believe...

Equipment used is Canon 40D + Canon 70-200mm F2.8 IS L

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Added on June 29, 2009, 10:42 amThink twice, see the result i posted. And you will use filter on the long run to protect front element of your lens, so stepping up or down is not recommended. You will try not to touch the filter as much as possible to avoid scratching the front element.

My 50mm f1.8 has no filter cause the normal Hoya which cost RM 30 is just bad. Hoya HD / B+w will cost almost half of the lens, i decided to leave it open

This post has been edited by Vincent Pang: Jun 29 2009, 10:42 AM

I don't quite understand. Why is the shot of fluorescent light tube the determining factor for UV filter? Perhaps you can also explain a little bit more on the methodology of your test. What camera setting (exif of all shot would be nice), what white balance setting, etc.

if u think it's flaw, then it's flaws

if u think i cheat, then i cheat

nothing i want to defend and rather nothing i want to explain cause i understand LYN too well.

I'm believing what i'm seeing. I'm only getting B+W and Hoya HD filters for all my future lenses... if you are not believing it, i'm not forcing u to believe it

the test was what i think is simple, screw in the filter, shoot something. Ppl in LYN will argue day until night why don't u shoot something else... why use canon and not nikon, why use auto WB, why use 70-200 f2.8 IS and not any other lens... why don't use tripod... i don't think i wanna go about explaining that.

As i say, it's a simple test, my friend came over to test out some lenses, i grab wat i have and use the normal setting i normally use and shoot. The only difference are filters used. I took the image with this '\' angle, i also took the image with '/' angle.

I don't work for Hoya, B+w or Canon, i don't really care if u think it's flaws/cheat or watever u call it i believe wat i see... and i'm sharing wat i see... i won't spend too much time doing another test too to prove i'm right as i say, i don't care if i'm wrong

HiroBoroi: no the post is not against u... hope u don't get offended... cheers

i dont understand the yellow colour thingy in the photos. what are those?

i also don't know it's a weird thing i pick up using different filter... no the images are not edited, just copy paste... might be my auto WB not working properly... but it's something i don't like seeing in my photos...

try the same filter and do the same thing again (if u dont mind and same reading again) and see the thing appear again or not

Youre using auto white balance? Maybe that explains the yellow cast. Perhaps the camera is adding some additional things into the equation.

Shooting fluorescent lighting is bad if you wanna compare colour, because depending on which phase of the 50 Hz you are shooting, you will get different colour white balance.

(FYI the fluorescent lighting is flickering at a frequency of 50Hz because that's what our power supply is running at.)

Sorry if this has been pointed out before...

Actually, using a fluorescent light is not the best choice of light source to show flaring or ghosting.

Reason being fluorescent lights flickers! We can't see it with our eyes as it flickers much too fast for us but the camera is able to capture as it goes through its cycles.

Those yellow or sometimes brown colour patches are caused by the flickering of the tube. You can try it. Set your cam to continuous shots, aim it at the tube and fire away. You can get similar kind of yellow or brown patches in some of your shots.

between UV n CPL which one is best one to get? kinda confused a bit bout IQ using those filters coz izzit ok if i use CPL for indoor shoot (hotel)?

I check the EXIF, shutter speed is 1/1600. I shoot at different angle too... and it's consistent

it could be flickering, but it should be on both sides... See that Pro1 and B+w has some yellow / brownish only on the bottom right side of the photo and not on the left side of the photo. It's a round tube, it's not possible to have it on one side and not the other.

Hoya HD is clean however i shoot it... i first thought it was the angle... i shoot -, /, \, |... all same on HD, no yellowish...

i even clean the lens and filter thinking it could be some oil

some of the point to note
1) how often do u have time to figure out how to fix the problem when you have an event going on?
2) is angle the problem ? Hoya HD has not have such issue. B+w only has some yellowish on this photo and shows none on other angles.
3) if it's flickering, how come it's not both sides since the tube is round
4) why yellow? i don't know hahahaha
5) is that something u'll be happy to see on ur photos? yes and no... in my case, i would say no...

no hassle, Hoya HD or B+W only, I don't have Pro1 with me now, it was my friend one, y don't u guys try it ? Hoya and B+w might be paying me under table, who knows... hahahahaha.. u guys try it out and share ur results

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Added on June 29, 2009, 2:38 pmu get 2-stop down with CPL, meaning slower shutter and thus killing some ambient to a certain extend... i don't think it's ok... any particular usage indoor for CPL?

This post has been edited by Vincent Pang: Jun 29 2009, 04:40 PM

guess Hoya HD is an alternative to B+W ... now i can get 58mm, 62mm and 67mm for my lens ... no need to use step up ring to 77mm

i dunno that's y i ask juz kinda curious if there's any IQ effect using CPL for indoor purposes
i still can't decide shud i go for UV (protection) or CPL (protection + good for outdoor)

CPL will cut the amount of light entering your lens (around 1/2 to 1 stop I think), but if you have flash, that's not much of a problem indoors (batteries will be your problem xD )

As for the "why yellow in one part and not the other" question, I believe it has something to do with the shutter curtain. Since it is very high shutter speed, then maybe only parts of the sensor is exposed to the light at any one time (the shutter starts closing before all of the sensor is exposed). So Different parts of the sensor is exposed to different phase of the flicker frequency.

That's only my theory lah

This post has been edited by chucky: Jun 29 2009, 04:53 PM

if wanna shoot a shine / glass product or shoot a product on a glass need to use CPL to kill the reflection.

It's not recommended to use CPL for indoors unless you want it specifically to cut some reflection on some surfaces. If you want protection then use UV. CPL more for outdoors. CPL as protection is overkill plus it cuts down on light.

If you want best IQ and you're shooting indoors with no obvious hazards then just remove all filters lor.

shutter speed of 1/60 and higher will show the flickering of the light...

that's why i was asking you to redo the whole thing again and see any differences or not

I always thought that no filter gives the best IQ. Apparently not from Vincent's study. No filter second last in terms of IQ.

1) Hoya HD
2) B+w (alloy)
3) Hoya Pro1
4) No filter <---------- see ... Very yellow.
5) Hoya HMC

Hi Vincent Pang,

i just try to shoot a fluorescent light using lens with hoya hmc uv filter and without filter in burst mode. what i get is same. same as all your image result in one burst mode shoot.

im not a pro. maybe u can reshoot again with a Hoya HD and B+W(alloy) in burst mode. see how the result is?...

My opinion is ur filter quality comparison is not ideal if u using a fluorescent light as a object.

from the result ... best to get is Hoya HD

guys, morning!

is it cheap, B+W 010M MRC UV HAZE Filter 77mm at RM220 and B+W 010M MRC UV HAZE Filter 67mm at RM160?

are they good? any1 here using B+W 010M MRC UV HAZE Filter?

this might help u:
http://www.calvinstudio.net/?p=523

a good comparison indeep .. .. Thanks for sharing ..

77mm price i get is RM250 ... 67mm price i get is the same with yours ... are they Alloy ring? where you get them from?

You can't go wrong with B+W MRCs. For RM50 more you may opt for their XS-Pro which is the slim type.

where to get it from?

Some interesting charts

Plain Glass.


B+W 72mm 010M UV-Haze MRC Slim.


Hoya 72 mm HMC UV-0.



What info can you get from the charts?

20 Filter Comparison <-- More info here.

Hoya is the best

u sure hoya? I think, it is B+W 72mm 010M UV-Haze MRC in UV .. .. 0 for less than 320nm while small amount for hoya uv ..

I am getting b+w uv today .. ..

Kindly post the before and after 200 ringgit plus damage pics.

p/s- Err ... normal scenery pics please ... dun wan pic of fluorescent tube la

aiseh, tak ada Hoya HD ka... highest range of Hoya

u can see from the test that some filters like Tiffen and King can really introduce more flare

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Added on June 30, 2009, 10:39 amhahaha, it was at night, my only source of light for flare is fluorescent

i still don't get why one part of the tube was yellow and not both sides since the tube is round...

This post has been edited by Vincent Pang: Jun 30 2009, 10:39 AM

Maybe the shop in Poland dun have the HD. But what is interesting is that the Hoya HMC, the cheapest of the Hoya, is no different than the Digital Pro 1 with regard to IQ. What is also interesting is that the Hoya HMC is rated last in your fluorescent tube test.

Some knowledge of an SLR's focal-plane shutter would help explain that. chucky mentioned this earlier.

Normally, your first shutter opens, exposes the scene for N seconds, and the second shutter closes after it. Let's say it takes 1/100s for a shutter to open and close across the frame.

What happens if you take a 1s exposure? The first shutter opens, and one second after, the second shutter closes.

What happens if you take a 1/200s exposure? The first shutter opens, and 1/200s after, the second shutter closes.

What's the difference? In the 1/200s case, the first shutter is still opening halfway as the second shutter is closing. So at any one time, only a maximum of half the frame is exposed. In addition, one side of the frame is delayed from the other side.

Like this:


So when you took that photo, you managed to capture varying phases of the fluroscent light phosphors in a single frame. One side of the light is yellow and the other not as a consequence of 1) the shutter exposing your photo in a horizontal slit moving down/upwards, and 2) your diagonal orientation of the lights.

In short, there's a solid reason explaining why your photos turned out that way, and it doesn't have anything to do with the filters.

Here ya go - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_plane_shutter

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Added on June 30, 2009, 11:48 am1. Only matters if you're doing high speed shooting.

2. Electronic ballasts for fluorescent lights switch at about 20,000Hz. They're more energy efficient and have instant startup too

haha .. with your statement above, u made me think twice to get an expensive or cheap one .. haha .. .. since I own b+w CPL 67mm and dont use it more than 5 minutes since the day I got it a month, I will trade in it with 2 uvs filter with additional RM140, b+w 010m uv haze mrc, 1 is for 77mm and another for 67mm .. .. a good deal i think .. ..

Clubsnap here is the link. I got my B+W from him, plan to get a slim KSM CPL next month.

aiks ... so far away

yeah ... i got the b+w 010m mrc uv haze filter d today afternoon .. ..

i just did a simple comparison between this and cheap hoya uv hmc, i would say b+w has clearer glass .. i will post the pictures of comparison later .. ..

<-- star filter

for a moment i thought u guys are talking about special effect filter, cpl n ND....

so does it worth your RM200?

where to get Star Filter? Hoya brand is it?

get the cokin filter set.. cause they come with adapter..so u can use the filter with watever size lens u have.

they got soft diffuser, ND, ND grad, polarise, star filter, radial zoom and many more..

how much does it cost?

u can try view the price in shashinki.com

hey guys i js bought myself a 50mm 1.4...js wondering wat's the size of filter for it?!

52mm if not wrong

Canon brand = 58mm
sony = 55mm
nikon 58mm iirc

Just look behind your lenscap, the filter size is stated there.

why don't you check the user guide that is in the box?

hi guys,

i'm kinda noob with my CPL filter. How do you know which angle the CPL should be rotated? What is it that we need to look for to know that is the best angle?

thx

The best angle is 92.6 degrees

Just joking...

You will have to look through the viewfinder while you rotate the CPL to see what is the best angle.

To get rid of reflections, just rotate the CPL until you can't see any reflections, then snap XD

To get best saturation of colours for your pictures, just keep rotating until you see the colours are the ones that best suit you.

92.6 degrees



ok.... so basically i have to look through the viewfinder and rotate till i get what i want?
coz i saw a mark on the cpl.... though that i have to make sure that it has to be on the 0 deg if i take vertical or horzontal

noob me