Had the decency to go straight to our players and shake hands before celebrating in full force.

I had this muppet of a retard in my campus who's an Arsenal fans and writes nothing but insulting remarks about United. That cheap *******, I felt like flooring him today.

guys who ordered from scorpion, has he contacted y'all? today's 1st June.

Carlos Tevez - thank you for your service but f*** you over your constant b****ing and whining over the last 2 months

I don't see a need to buy a midfielder. I really like Gibson and I think he will develop and be a nice, proper player for us. He reminds me of how SAF played Fletcher. Played him out right in certain games for his development, has a decent shot in him, tracks back and has a bundle of energy.

I like Wellbeck, think he can be our #7 on the right if we do not sign anyone.

Basically, I'd love Arguero and Benzema but I won't cry if we didn't get anyone. (If it goes pear shape, we'd have given the youth one year development : /).

How will Anderson fulfill his potential if we do not play him?

Who that is currently available could improve our midfield? I could only think of De Rossi and maybe....Palacious. How is Fletcher that much weaker than Lampard (based on last season)? Fletcher's 25, the other two are hitting the 30s and he's there or thereabout at the highest level. Sure, he's not as all-action as Gerrard but I don't think anyone can deny that his contributions were vital last season in aiding us to no.18.

Anderson's 21. If he were at another club, we'd be wanking over him. Like Nani, he needs games and they're never going to develop their potential if they are going to be overlooked for Ribery or <insert 80 million pound player here>. These two could really use some trust from the backroom staff that was given to Ronaldo when he first came over. Whenever Nani makes a mistake, he's subbed. Way to go for his confidence. Scholes and Giggs are at the twilight of their careers, time to see Anderson and Gibson begin theirs.

How did Ronaldo get world class? How did Rooney get world class? We paid for their potential but they were anything but world class when they came over here. Yes, and I'm pretty sure that Scholes, Becks and Giggs all became world class after playing regular minutes while gaining invaluable experience.

Ronaldo -> Nani
Tevez -> Wellbeck.

And if last season's contribution of the two were anything to go by, we wouldn't miss them THAT much.

PS: I agree we need a new striker to have FOUR fit strikers for rotation. Just don't see the need for a midfielder.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 20 2009, 09:58 PM

Forgive me but you're asking for Frank Ribery and Karim Benzema, eh? Ribery WILL NOT join United. There's no point talking about transfer targets that aren't feasible. And Benzema? He too isn't world class. He'll need to be nurtured and given time to settle and learn as well. So why are you willing to give time to young players that we don't have and not players we ALREADY have?

Who is world class in our midfield? No one.
Who is world class that is available?
If there is such a player, do we need him?

To your second question, Giggs and Scholes are still here.

Anderson and Nani can only become that someone who'll make a difference if they're given games. Ronaldo is the perfect example why we should stick with Anderson and Nani.

---

Added on June 20, 2009, 10:19 pmWe did destroy Arsenal in the semi-finals.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 20 2009, 10:19 PM

I don't see why we need Ribery nor is he worth that amount of money. He's 26, he's jumped clubs every 2 seasons, his stats aren't remarkable even at an inferior Bundesliga and for what is worth, even at the national level, he hasn't impressed. Ashley Young > Ribery and Nani > Ashley Young

And how is he in better shape to grow into a world class player? Because of what you've seen from him? Well, how much have we seen of Welbeck to say he is not to be a world class player? Very little. But maybe if we play Welbeck more.......and Welbeck is younger than Benzema. : /

And Welbeck mirrors Henry

You'd be having a laugh if you believe Benzema will come to United only to sit on the bench, on the year leading up to the World Cup.

First you said Fletcher was good until the semi-final. Then you said he was good but against a weakened Arsenal.

Yes, I'm pretty sure Carrick has only performed in unimportant matches. I'm pretty sure Carrick's goal against Wigan was VERY VERY unimportant. Also Aston Villa, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs are unimportant games of our season. I can tell how he hid himself and didn't perform to win us the 18th league title. I'm also sure having the same number of assists as world-class Ronaldo means nothing and that being tied 3rd in most number of assists tells us that he doesn't provide telling passes often enough.

So it's our fault Arsenal were under-manned? But if Liverpool sign A, B, C, D, E - they'd be having title number 100.

Which four played within themselves? Oh and do bear in mind Rooney HASN'T played as a striker

---

Added on June 20, 2009, 10:57 pmAshley Young was great for 6 months and then it went pear-shaped. If Nani had similar minutes, there'd be no doubt in my mind he'd have similar stats to Ribery or Young. No doubt.

I don't dispute Benzema would be great for us. I just would prefer giving our own youth a shot. I think Welbeck is special and his goals have been special as well.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 20 2009, 10:57 PM

I know you didn't say anything about Fletcher being good against Arsenal. And what have you got to say about our demolition of Chelsea? Fletcher was part of the midfield that 'grabbed the game by its neck.'

And that Arsenal team was demolished in the opening 30 minutes of the half - I don't think we took advantage. We steamrolled.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 20 2009, 11:21 PM

Nani and Berbatov's combined contributions.

Based on what?

And Ronaldo + Tevez scored 40 goals combined. Why would Nani need to score X + what Ronaldo scored? We're replacing like for like.

Take away the number of goals from set pieces for Ronaldo and then compare it with Berbatov's - no difference and add to the fact Berbatov played 10 less games than Ronaldo. Tevez scored 15 to Nani's 6 but Tevez played 11 more games than Nani and sure as hell more minutes than Nani.

Ronaldo + Tevez - set piece goals = 30+
Berbs + Nani = 20.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 20 2009, 11:41 PM

Seriously, has not what I've mentioned been other than ONE OF MANY POSSIBLE solutions to replace Ronaldo + Tevez?

You mentioned that Tevez and Ronaldo need to be replaced. Fair enough you throw in their worth in terms of goals. On the other side of the argument, Berba + Nani have scored 10 less goals (again set piece goals taken out for fairer representation) only because of fewer minutes.

And then you still mention we need to replace Ronaldo and Tevez without anything other than sign X and Y where both X and Y aren't likely to come.

Ribery - Madrid bound, Chelsea ahead as well - we won't be in a bidding war
Benzema - WC year, not likely to risk his place in national team for a place on the bench at OT>

You obviously don't. Otherwise, you wouldn't constantly moan for new targets. And who's to say new targets produce immediate results? Oh, it's soooo easy to get transfer targets and have them adapt to the climate and football in England. No wonder Vidic, Evra, Tevez and Mascherano all had wonderful first seasons in England.

New signings do not guarantee results. We'd have an equal, if not better chance with Berbs and Nani.

And signing Ribery will guarantee goals from set piece situations?

We have capable set piece takers. The twins have a good shot in them. Nani, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney and Berbatov all have taken free kicks as well. When Becks left, we asked the same question. Ronaldo took over and he wasn't good at it naturally. It took him practice. Someone will step up inevitably.

Read back my posts, I was agreeing with you on the need of one more striker. I just was against Ribery.

In any case, how was Shevchenko and Veron not quality signings? Signings made for wrong purposes (money, stepping stone) always leads to failure.

---

Added on June 21, 2009, 12:01 amMy original post.

Your response which I disagree with.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 21 2009, 12:02 AM

You said we shouldn't discount Ronaldo's contributions when comparing them with Nani's and Berbs. He's left and his set pieces have gone. So someone will get the goals Ronaldo has gotten us in the past. And to compare the number of goals, I don't see how you can compare them when 1 has X number of opportunities more than others. : /

It was more than just Beck's leaving that led to a barren spell. Besides, it could also be argued that our success was not just attributable to quality signings, but time given to those signings to develop. Look what constant games did for Ronaldo's development? Look what it did to Fletcher and Carrick's development? We had no choice but to play them no matter how frustrating Ronaldo was because we had no one else. It made him mature and a better player (this after fans were calling for his head after Stamp-gate). This could be Nani's season. If not, perhaps we'd send him off after the World Cup, I don't know. I'd just rather try current options before looking at alternatives.

You mentioned Carrick, Rooney and Tevez as quality signings that stood up but still ask for new signings in midfield after we've signed Nani, Anderson, Tosic, Ljalic and Possebon? The earlier two are as quality as Rooney when he first came in. The two cost a combined 30 million? Nani and Anderson DO NEED GAMES to develop. There's no two ways about it. Moreover, those signings were different from signings that you seem to desire. We needed that boost. We MAY not need this with Nani and Anderson available.

Quality players DO NOT guarantee results. The signing must be a fit for both club and player. Player must want to play for the club and the club must want the player. One of the reasons why I'll stick by Berbs thick and thin is because he WANTS to play for us. He may look like he doesn't give an eff but from interviews from himself and the gaffer, he gives an eff. Not sure if Benzema or Ribery will do likewise. If we were to sign Benzema only because Lyon want to cash in on the cash, he'd f*** off to Madrid next year and perform abysmally.

Veron, Sheva - quality but FAILED.

---

Added on June 21, 2009, 12:23 amFirstly, you mentioned quality signings guarantee success. You didn't say at United. But in any case, Veron was a player who has already made it in football before coming over. The other players (Rooney, Ronaldo, Ferdinand) were world class AFTER they came here. There's a difference. So actually, how many world class players have we signed under SAF?

Barthez - flopped
Veron - flopped (no two ways, we bit the hands of Chelsea the moment the offer came in).
Berbatov - pending

We may have broken the bank for Rooney and Ferdinand but they were no where near world class when they came here.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 21 2009, 12:34 AM

Last point before I hit the sack as well:

1) This is by far the strongest squad we've assembled ever. The balance between youth and experience is perfect. We have up to three players in each position-something that has never been achieved at United in recent memory.

Ronaldo's departure? Nani, Tosic, Park, Welbeck [whom Fergie tipped for 2010 WC squad so you know he'll play next season ]

Tevez's departure? He was not his usual self last season so it wasn't that big a loss. He scored vital goals but Berbs will improve, Welbeck can step up and ideally a new striker will be good but will not be disastrous if we didn't get one. Macheda could feature even more next season.

2) We already have established players. Playing for another club in France or Germany, Nani will have similar stats to Ribery. Not as effective and potent but development comes with games and time. We may not win anything next season but over the long run, we'd be better off with Nani and Anderson than spending tons of money which guarantee nuts. Mind you, the season Barca signed Henry, they won f*** all. It was the season after that they won all. Quality signings require time even for the CURRENT situation. I do agree we need 1 signing. If it's Valencia, it won't be Benzema. If it's a striker, it won't be Benzema and it won't be a lot of money involved.

Likewise.

night.

This post has been edited by kobe8byrant: Jun 21 2009, 01:17 AM