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 Motor insurance discount plan..., i strongly disagree with the plan...

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TSbalwr
post May 19 2009, 11:56 AM, updated 17y ago

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Cheaper to renew directly if premiums are raised

PETALING JAYA: Policyholders will be able to buy or renew their motor insurance policies directly with insurance companies at a discount if the proposal by insurance companies to raise motor premiums is approved, according to industry sources.

It is learnt that Bank Negara is in discussion with motor insurance players and has requested them to provide discounts if it decides to approve a hike in motor insurance premiums as requested by the industry due to rising motor insurance claims.

A 30-year veteran of the insurance industry told StarBiz the move would allow policyholders an option to either walk in and buy directly over the counter at a discount from insurers or they could buy through their agents, whereby they would have to pay a 10% commission.

Subject to approval from the central bank, the rate of discount being studied at the moment is 5% in the first year and 10% in the second year and thereafter, in addition to benefits like the no claims bonus (NCB), according to the source.

The first year discount is limited to new motor policies and the subsequent ones are for renewals, he added.

The General Insurance Association of Malaysia (PIAM) has declined to comment on the matter.

Insurers had been persistently asking Bank Negara to raise motor premiums since the last one took effect in 1978, citing higher motor claims, surging vehicle thefts and the rising cost of automotive repairs.

Federation of Malaysian Consumer Association secretary-general and chief executive Muhammad Sha’ani Abdullah said the move to allow consumers to buy motor policies over the counter was laudable as it would eliminate abuses by agents.

“Many people buying or renewing motor or non-motor policies are forced by their agents to buy other general insurance products which are unrelated. “This is something which we view as an abuse by agents and (it is) forced selling.

“We support this proposal as it will benefit consumers and check the growing abuses by agents,’’ Muhammad Sha’ani said.

But the industry source said the move to allow customers to buy motor insurance policies directly at a discount from insurance companies would affect the income of agents and their staff.

“There are about 40,000 general insurance agents in the country, of which 15,000 are full-time agents.

“On average, each agent or agency employs between three and 30 people.

“By allowing customers to buy or renew motor policies at a discount, it will erode the income of more than 50,000 employees of insurance agents, which will cause them to be unemployed,” he said.

An agent who declined to be named said agents helped in the penetration of insurance in remote and rural areas where there were limited insurance branches.

“Apart from selling insurance, we also provide claims management and monitoring of claims on behalf of customers.

“Unless the central bank has specific plans to redeploy the unemployed staff, it is going to worsen the current economic situation,” he said.

Some of the leading motor insurance insurers in the country are Kurnia Insurans (with a market share of more than 20%), AmAssurance, Allianz Malaysia Bhd and Tokio Marine.

Allianz General Insurance Company (M) Bhd chief executive Ng Hang Ming said in an e-mail reply that his company had “not received any directive to revise motor premiums upwards.”

“To date, we have not received any directive on this issue of rebate to direct customers. In respect of commission to agents, it still remains unchanged at 10%,’’ Ng said.




what are we agent going to eat? common man there are 40k agents in the country... do they plan to just rethrech them like this? and 15k of them like me are full time agents... phew... sob2...


Added on May 19, 2009, 12:01 pmPETALING JAYA: Come July 1, car owners who buy motor insurance directly from insurance companies without using the services of an agent will qualify for mandatory rebates, a move that could render agents redundant.

The move would see new customers being given a 5% rebate on their insurance if they buy it via channels such as the Internet, telemarketing, direct mailing or by walking into the insurance company. These customers would also get a 10% rebate for renewals in the second year.

In a circular sent to the General Insurance Association of Malaysia (PIAM) dated April 17, Bank Negara said the rebates would only apply to actual owners of the vehicles.

The circular added that Bank Negara had “no objections” to PIAM’s proposal for the mandatory rebates. This is understood to mean that the move would more likely be implemented than not.

Veteran insurance agent Hardyal Singh hit out at PIAM, saying the association did not take the views of 40,000 agents (15,000 of them full-time) into consideration.

“It will clearly affect the livelihood of the agents. Full-time agents hire at least three to 30 employees at their agencies and these people will also be affected.

“Our main source of income is the 10% commission, so the 10% rebate is actually our commission being given to the customer. It offers no benefit to the insurance company but instead creates a socio-economic crisis by making people jobless.”

Hardyal, who was formerly Perak General Insurance Agents Association president, said he would be forming an ad hoc committee with some larger agents in Kuala Lumpur to speak out more on the matter.

It is understood that the circular was the outcome of correspondence and meetings between PIAM and Bank Negara on the association’s proposals towards self-regulation of the industry.

In the circular, the central bank said the rationale for mandatory rebates was to “promote the promulgation of alternative channels of distribution so as to increase the penetration of insurance to the masses”.

An industry source said the industry was heavily regulated, especially towards the ability of insurance companies to reward agents, and that PIAM’s proposals were for Bank Negara to allow some self-regulation.

“When Bank Negara came back to the table, it seemed that they were saying if insurance companies were willing to reward agents, then they could also provide this benefit to policyholders.”

The source added that the central bank’s move could be seen as a way to reduce the number of part-time agents but said full-time agents would now have to work harder and think up new ways to get business.

Consumer advocate Billy Toh said he was strongly against the move as he felt that agents could still play a role by explaining the insurance policy details to customers.

However, Federation of Malaysian Consumers Association secretary-general Muhammad Sha’ani Abdullah said “the move would reduce the opportunity for agents who try to get customers to buy other types of insurance together with motor insurance.”

This post has been edited by balwr: May 19 2009, 12:01 PM
ejiema
post May 19 2009, 12:13 PM

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Agents chasing for monies, policy holders need to suffer. Insurance is always an dillema issues.
lin00b
post May 19 2009, 12:16 PM

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i'm in favour of more transparency in the insurance business where all available plans are easily available and the customer can research and decide on their own (or with advise of consultants/agents) what to get.

right now, all the knowledge is in the hand of agents and unscrupulous/unknowledgeable ones may steer you away from the plans you need to the plans they want.

sure the information may be highly technical and complex and not immediately understandable by customers, but more information is always better than less
a6meister
post May 19 2009, 01:32 PM

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most of the times, many irresponsible insurance agents TARNISHED INSURANCE COMPANY IMAGE. should i said that they are not professional enough in the job?
i have once encounter with this situation, end up that the HQ OF UNIASIA have to call me up and appologise.

TSbalwr
post May 19 2009, 01:44 PM

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hurm... that is why last year piam teminated 4k non performing agents... those who cant work and good for nothing... mislead the company products and policies... didnt met thier targets and as well as breach cbc regulations...
alien0110
post May 19 2009, 01:47 PM

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motor insurance also got agent one? I never know that, always buy directly from am assurance.
lin00b
post May 19 2009, 04:03 PM

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one way or another, more information and less dependance on agents is a good thing.

reveal your super secret tables and formulas and ratios, so customers can get comparisons. let agents evolve into consultants, where customers go to get clarifications.

right now i am experiencing 3 different agents from 2 different companies telling me different things. and forummers telling me yet another thing.
muscaa
post May 19 2009, 08:05 PM

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what ever discount from insurance company is good for consumers... only agents will disagree

lcl832002
post May 19 2009, 11:13 PM

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A company plans to cut cost. As a result, employees' salary will be cut (10 %). So, do you think the employees will be very happy to hear that news???
tgrrr
post May 20 2009, 01:22 PM

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I don't see a problem with this discount plan. It opens up the market, and allows for self-regulation.
So now instead of having a fixed 10% cut every time, there's a check and balance hence the pressure to perform better. Ultimately this will create more innovative and better quality "services", hopefully reward "capable" agents and punish those non-performing agents.
Don't forget, this is a service sector. An agent's #1 primary job should be to service his/her customer for their best interest.
cute_boboi
post May 20 2009, 02:55 PM

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Insurance is generally divided into 2:
- Life
- General

General insurance includes Motor-vehicles, fire, flood, marine/ship, etc.
i.e. non-life lah.

Currently, I'm getting NCD 55% + 7% extra from my agent, as their main goal is to achieve annual target only. However, when it is open up, I can get 55% + 10% ?

For me, I don't see a need to utilise the agent. If my car accident, I'll contact the claims/adjuster within the insurance company directly. It is unlike life-insurance where the agent will help me to sort it out.
ycs
post May 20 2009, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(cute_boboi @ May 20 2009, 02:55 PM)
Insurance is generally divided into 2:
- Life
- General

General insurance includes Motor-vehicles, fire, flood, marine/ship, etc.
i.e. non-life lah.

Currently, I'm getting NCD 55% + 7% extra from my agent, as their main goal is to achieve annual target only. However, when it is open up, I can get 55% + 10% ?

For me, I don't see a need to utilise the agent. If my car accident, I'll contact the claims/adjuster within the insurance company directly. It is unlike life-insurance where the agent will help me to sort it out.
*
wah, your agent give good discount. can i have his contact. I'm about to renew my motor insurance and only get umbrella.
mtsen
post May 21 2009, 06:33 PM

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ok this is the full story ...

insurance is a statistic game, when first started it needs to collect fund. later when the reserve fund is a lot and the claim statistic drops, the profit margin in premium collection can be as high as 90%. This apply more in general insurance than life.

when that happen, it makes sense to reduce premium as the reward-risk ratio has changed.

as for agents who lost a piece of the pie, the answer is you have already been receiving more reward than the risk (claim). so move on to new marketing channel and start innovate or evolve in the same line of industry.

u can scam good money in the past doesn't mean you can scam the same way now, you have to think of new way to scam if you still want to earn those kind of money.
TSbalwr
post May 27 2009, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ May 19 2009, 04:03 PM)
one way or another, more information and less dependance on agents is a good thing.

reveal your super secret tables and formulas and ratios, so customers can get comparisons. let agents evolve into consultants, where customers go to get clarifications.

right now i am experiencing 3 different agents from 2 different companies telling me different things. and forummers telling me yet another thing.
*
what thing bro?
ehyeoh
post Jul 27 2009, 03:48 PM

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Now is about end of July. Did they approve the hike of motor insurance premiums? Do we get the 10% commission discount if we buy directly from the insurers?

rakyat
post Jul 28 2009, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(ehyeoh @ Jul 27 2009, 03:48 PM)
Now is about end of July. Did they approve the hike of motor insurance premiums? Do we get the 10% commission discount if we buy directly from the insurers?
*
There is no hike in insurance premium, u get a discount (5% 1st yr & 10% subsequent yr for motor, 15% for fire & 25% for PA) when u choose to buy/ renew direct (w/o agent)

They should implement this for Life insurance oso since the com. is much higher and it is automatically renewed hence less follow-up for the agenet
PJusa
post Jul 28 2009, 11:17 AM

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i agree rakyat - lets wait and see . some insurers refuse direct customers now though - bad bad!

so far walk-ins have been refused by Tokio Marine they insist i use an agent. i will try to force them and to give me discount on my medical plan. not sure if it will work though.

in the past MSIG also refused to give discount to walk-in but still took the business.

anyone else has been refused walk-in or been taken as walk-in without getting a discount? please list companies to avoid wink.gif
TSbalwr
post Jul 28 2009, 10:46 PM

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so far what i know is allianz, tokio marine...
PJusa
post Jul 29 2009, 08:38 AM

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allianz also refuse to take direct or give discount? have to spoken to HQ? i checked with them last year and they were willing to give full agent discount to walk in. would be sad if policy changed.
myvi5949
post Jul 29 2009, 08:47 AM

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You can choose to buy direct from the internet...i've done this and got 5% discount.

Just make sure that you buy DIRECTLY FROM THE INSURANCE WEBSITE.

NOT FROM A REFERRAL LINK from other websites/blog. Otherwise you wont get the discount.

This post has been edited by myvi5949: Jul 29 2009, 08:50 AM
ChinHong86
post Jul 29 2009, 09:21 AM

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some of u may say insurance agent earn too much,
then shud the government regulate all other businesses too?
like consumers shud purchase at cost pricing only?
think well...
there are many more businessmen earning more than agents with half the effort..

gilabola
post Jul 29 2009, 09:29 AM

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Let's share websites where insurance can be purchased online directly from the insurance company:

so far I have found these ones:

http://www.kurnia.com
http://www.takaful-ikhlas.com.my/services/eIkhlas.asp

This post has been edited by gilabola: Jul 29 2009, 09:34 AM
PJusa
post Jul 29 2009, 09:31 AM

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ChinHong86,

this is has absolutely nothing to do with government regulation. its about competition. as a consumer i expect to have a choice wether i want to pay for a service (ie agent) or not. if i choose to deal with the insurer directly i expect to be given the same benefits the agent otherwise gets. it's that simple.

then and only then i can choose what i want to pay for. now i am _forced_ to pay for an agent i dont want and have to split comission. not ideal for me at all.

also this leads to more competition among agents. you give me better deal and service and then i might be willing to use your services. this guaranteed income make people lazy and incompetent. nothing against you personally but most of the agents i spoke with know nothing about their product besides which one offers them the best comission. this is what they push. i want independant advice not a pushy comission seeker who doesnt understand the differences of his own plans or has zero knowledge in financial planning and / or tax optimisation. this is not a service that has any value to the general public. just look at the majority of (usually part time) agents - they suck so bad they are an embarassement to the insurance, the industry and cost other people nothing but money. sure there are usefull agents out there. but they are hard to find. if the comission sheme would be competitive, idiots disappear and professionalim enters the market. if you think you can survive this - you should be for it. less agents means potentially better business. the only agents who should be against this are the ones that know they dont provide any service.
rakyat
post Jul 29 2009, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 29 2009, 09:31 AM)
ChinHong86,

this is has absolutely nothing to do with government regulation. its about competition. as a consumer i expect to have a choice wether i want to pay for a service (ie agent) or not. if i choose to deal with the insurer directly i expect to be given the same benefits the agent otherwise gets. it's that simple.

then and only then i can choose what i want to pay for. now i am _forced_ to pay for an agent i dont want and have to split comission. not ideal for me at all.

also this leads to more competition among agents. you give me better deal and service and then i might be willing to use your services. this guaranteed income make people lazy and incompetent. nothing against you personally but most of the agents i spoke with know nothing about their product besides which one offers them the best comission. this is what they push. i want independant advice not a pushy comission seeker who doesnt understand the differences of his own plans or has zero knowledge in financial planning and / or tax optimisation. this is not a service that has any value to the general public. just look at the majority of (usually part time) agents - they suck so bad they are an embarassement to the insurance, the industry and cost other people nothing but money. sure there are usefull agents out there. but they are hard to find. if the comission sheme would be competitive, idiots disappear and professionalim enters the market. if you think you can survive this - you should be for it. less agents means potentially better business. the only agents who should be against this are the ones that know they dont provide any service.
*
rclxms.gif

Methink this is oso the intention of BNM implementing the 'direct rebate'. Get rid of part-time agents/ non-professionals while allowing choice to the consumers. Agents now need to value-add or 'earn their keeps'
ChinHong86
post Jul 30 2009, 12:43 AM

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PJusa,

actually i understand your feeling as a consumer too,
as i (or shud i say my family) was a consumer before,
which is one of the reason i wanted to venture into this industry,
but something obvious to see now,
many irresponsible agents weren't able to survive in this industry at this current condition too,
IMHO,
we nit balance in this world,
there must be ppl in every industry,
IF everyone were to buy frm the insurers directly,
there wun be enuf agents around,
even if their service is good.
Eg,
would you pay for services in restaurant if service tax is optional?
i bet most of malaysians wont pay,
as in malaysia,
we still don't appreciate services,
we expect things to come free...
PJusa
post Jul 30 2009, 09:14 AM

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ChinHong86,

sorry to say so but you are basically calling for a regulatory body to enschrine agents rights to exist. i am saying that only if an agent can provide a value added service (such as independant counseling) they can and should survive. the comission can not be exclusively handed out to agents. any consumer must have the choice of either paying an agent or not. that is what a free market is about.

and your comparison is flawed: there are many countries where service tax is optional (tipping). many ppl dont pay but the service staff gets a fixed salary which adopts for that and basic prices in turn reflect this. this is merely a question of packaging. also i can choose if i go into a restaurant or not or rather serve myself in a nasi kandar or whatever. so the choice is there and that is the whole point.

you will find that malaysia has a multitude of regulated industries that guarantee basically income for no added value whatsoever. those regulations will disappear in the future since they are economically wastefull. and this also holds for forced agent comissions which artificially increase premiums across board. i dont want my money to be wasted - simple as that.
ChinHong86
post Jul 31 2009, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 30 2009, 10:14 AM)
and your comparison is flawed: there are many countries where service tax is optional (tipping). many ppl dont pay but the service staff gets a fixed salary which adopts for that and basic prices in turn reflect this. this is merely a question of packaging. also i can choose if i go into a restaurant or not or rather serve myself in a nasi kandar or whatever. so the choice is there and that is the whole point.
*
we dont have fixed salary
PJusa
post Jul 31 2009, 10:43 PM

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ChinHong86,

this was related to your analogy to service staff not insurance agents.

just because you rely on comissions does not warrant their existance. my entire salary is based solely upon wether my clients pay me for my services or not. if i dont provide a good enough service or someone else does provide a better or same service at a lower price i am in trouble. i always have to be better and / or cheaper to warrant my charges. the same holds for agents. there is no free lunch - there is however the misguided perception among many agents that there is indeed a free lunch. thanks largely to a certain institution who came up with a regulated fixed agency comission. things like this are poison to the market as there is no incentive to be better - you get the comission anyway.

really there is no possible argument that one can make to warrant fixed comissions and to deny customer the right to choose. we life in a free market and the market forces dictate the outcome - not a regulatory body. i for once decide not to pay agents - and i expect that my right not to do so is enshrined. just as you have the right to a comission IF someone chooses to use your services.

the sole reason why people complain is because all of a sudden a guaranteed income stream is threatend all of a sudden.

there are numerous makroeconomic and microeconomic arguments that are far outweigh the agents interest for an enshrined comission. i think i have noted a few. for example for my PA insurance : why would i want to pay 25% of my insurance premium to the agent? i rather not and save this to buy better protection or save it elsewhere. it's my choice - noone has the right to tell me that in order to get a specific insurance i MUST pay someone else for a service i dont need.

 

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