post why u think ret pally are OP...
better to discuss here than another thread that have no relation...

to me, ret are OP cause they can make thousand of QQ threads on the official forum!

the truth is: -

"People get upset and say a class is OP because they have not yet figured out the effective strategy for killing that class or spec. People are quick to blame the game mechanics and too stubborn to admit their inability to pvp well."
by Draenalyne

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 7 2009, 09:25 PM

oh lol.

mana burn the assholes till they go oom

3.1 they buffing up JoW again to 25%...
harder to oom d =p

though range class can kite them till dawn lol...

i know nuts about pally, so no comment

I find it annoying the original defensive hybrid (the Paladin) has more offensive power than the original offensive hybrid (the Shaman), yet they still retain all their defensive strengths.

We can agree that stunlock is extremely annoying. We hate it when you're receiving it from a Rogue. We hate it when you're receiving it from a Druid via Pounce, Maim, Feral Charge, Bash, Cyclone (I know I did it often on my druid).

I hate it the most when I'm receiving it from a Paladin. At least Rogues and Druids go through with their entire motions in their stunlock sequence, but a Ret Pally wouldn't need to sweat about thinking "oh I should press this first then that". Possibly their only major decision is "Hammer or Repentance first?".

Let's face it, Rogues and Druids open from stealth. Before they commit to an attack they would size up the prey first, or wait for their own cooldowns. And if things go south, they can just run away.

A Ret, even if he's caught pants down; can unleash enough damage and has the defense to make any ambusher regret it. God forbid if their Hammer comes back up, but you can't even run from a fight you've started if they ever get into melee range (A DK is even worse with Death Grip and Chains of Ice). Maybe a Hunter or a Mage can start a long range fight and stay there, but I doubt other classes can stay far away long enough to whittle down the Paladin. And I doubt Ret Pallies run away in fear of Warriors and Death Knights.

^

Is Draenalyne a paladin

First thing i see a pally is run, cause it is usually my face on the dirt and not theirs.

laksa88 did u even read what he wrote or just quote him and put an ^

actually in 3.1, ret would run from warriors thanks to the new bubble breaker =(
and yes, DK can rape a ret easily (unless the ret have bubble and LoH online)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 8 2009, 11:54 AM

well ret pally is OP on 3.0.0-3.0.3 but 3.0.9 hunter is OP.. i top 1st dps and HEALS on MH pug when 3.0 release..
But if 3.1 is out and the crusader strike skill will reduce healing/spell by 50% then thats definitely gonna be MORE OP..
Currently got bored of ret.. playing prot since prot gonna get buff on 3.1 with exorcism can be use on anything and 100% crit on undead..and Divine Aegis can help to save noobies from dying at 3Drakes

yeah.. just damn lazy to fight them... as they bubble, heal heal heal heal heal heal.. ZzzzzzZzzZZZzzZZZzZ

true, 3.0 was really the WTFLOLBBQPWNED moment for lol-ret...
i'm excited with the buff to JoW, divine storm upgrades and of course exorcism to add into the burst (ranged as well =p)...

Another thing that irks me is that there is no drawback to be inside a bubble for a Ret Pally. Really. What drawback is it for a Ret Paladin to be inside his Divine Shield?

In the past it was a super slow melee swing timer, so Rets needed to juggle between healing themselves or continue to finish the fight at a low health. This was offset by instant Judgements like of Command and then by the talent Crusader Strike. Not to mention Hammer of Wrath. All of these addressed the ancient pain of a Paladin unable to dps effectively while inside his Divine Shield. He had to choose: bubble heal or don't bubble and dps. Now that a Paladin have the talents and skills do dps and heal themselves the same time, I see no rational for Divine Shield.

Sure, one can argue Feral Druid Bears are almost the same: ridiculous survivability and able to last long in a fight. But unless he's very geared, you don't get killed by a Bear in a short time. A Bear's strategy is to outlast, a Ret Paladin is to burst. It's like a 3-minute Mage but in melee range. And you know how vulnerable a Mage is if you catch him in melee. Not for the Ret, he still has the bubble. Even DKs have to stack their diseases first, Rogues have to build their combo points first (and again and again).

Yes, I'm a bitter Shaman.

2 to 3 HoL before oom...
but wit the new JoW buff, 1 judge = 25% mana back every 8 sec...

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 12:53 pmproblems wit bubble for a ret: -
- deals 50% damage only (which is against the purpose for dealing damage) as opposed to the old 50% swing time
- unusable within the 30 sec after poping AW (wrong timing = dead ret)

its nt an utility tool for a ret...
its a OMG escape button for a ret since its all we got to survive the moment...

true enuff, shaman need something as a OMG escape survivability button hopefully addressed in 3.1...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 8 2009, 12:53 PM

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1613736629...-this-game.html

6 things ruining this game with blue responses.

I hardly see Ret using the bubble to run away... I hardly see Rets running away in the first place :S

If anything, they use the bubble to ignore all CC effects to close in!

This post has been edited by ray123: Apr 8 2009, 01:01 PM

its better to use HoF and jz run to ur target...
post changes to bubble, i doubt rets would bubble to jz move close when HoF does the same against CC...

GC's post was concerning the old pally on bubble chasing u down and whacking u...
with the 50% damage nerf in bubble, bubble is now jz a OMG escape button...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 8 2009, 01:17 PM

its useless talking to people who tries to justify the op-ness of the class they are using...
its like talking to DK players, well they are all pretty much the same.

HoF counters snares, not all CC. Plus HoF can be removed from range (good luck dispelling it tho).

Suppose a Mark's Hunter with Hawk's Eye (talent to increase max range) start a fight with a Ret Pally from his maximum range. I'm not mentioning Survival as the TNT random stuns and Lock and Load procs are ridiculous right now (both being removed/changed in 3.1). I doubt Retdins will run to a LoS position like in the older days and hide/escape. I'm pretty sure Retdins now are confident of at least reaching the hunter once.

^

Obviously when rets get into range they will kill you, thats what their class is. Melee. The same can be said of how vulnerable ret is if you hold/kite him at range. Ret has bubble to escape.. ok.. Mage has blink and other ways to escape just as well. The whole pvp thing is just rock-scissors-paper. Some classes inevitably will be at the losing end to pallies and some will be at the winning end. If you want to pwn pallies, pick rock(metaphorically). But then again, people are gonna complain how OP paper pwns rock.

^

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 2:56 pm

good write but... WHY SO SERIOUS?
btw you know about the other lolpatch thread?

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 2:59 pmi think you just win internets+50 with this post lol.

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 3:01 pmto be fair, not all players(or DKs) are like that.

even for rogues, we had our glory days (HARP LOL) of being OPd (every class did honestly)

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 3:03 pmsure, if its all rock and scissors its fine. but when things like rock beating paper, that isnt fine anymore, and thats what balance is about.

do refer to sk-100 if you wanna get an idea of what pvp/arena balance is.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 03:03 PM

The thing is they can kill you fast, and do it while having the protective net of their divine shield. There is no other class that is invulnerable WHILE they are attacking. A Mage sitting in Iceblock while his Mirror Images are attacking you is a lousy comparison. The major problem (at least for me) is that Ret Paladins aren't using the bubble as an escape, they are using it as an attackingoption, which is a complete reversal from it's original purpose (to heal). 50% less damage might seem big but the original hits have huge numbers in the first place.

the difference is that good players will admit that the class they are playing is OP (Hafu comes to mind, god... even a girl has more sense in playing compared to guys these days)

I used to play a lock, and god I love being OP during those times... every minute of it, but you have to admit the fact that the class is broken.

I think it's not fair to say one class is OP just because they "supposedly" rule in PVP

How about PVE? Lots of people like me only do PVE and it sucks to see nerfs because Blizz is trying to balance things in PVP. In PVE in fact, Zarhym has actualy said that Ret Pally dps is lacking, that's why we're getting Exorcism usable on all mobs, and a guaranteed crit on undead mobs.

PVE eh?

http://wowwebstats.com/b45l2343yuc65 (from MMO Champion's speed run news)

Check out the RET paladin's damage done AND healing done

haha well said.

and onto locks, they are still op'ed

they had REALLY piss poor representation at the beginning due to how burst/resil comparison were, but now? people cryin bout feardeaths (shitty arena maps like sewers/orgrimmar [LOLDISABLED]) are quickly increasing and another factor is due to shadowcleave comps. (DK pala lock)

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 3:54 pmI SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 03:54 PM

The easy test:

You know your class is OP when you don't bat an eye at a lvl80 opponent landing near you while you're just a few levels under him.

You know the opponent's class is OP if you avoid him even though you're higher level.

The effective healing is high because there's many melee dps in the raid.

And the damage is high because it's Naxx and 90% of the mobs there are undead. I guarantee you will not see the same dps against, say, Archavon.

Plus the stats are artificially exaggerated from thaddius and Gluth fights. Let's take a look vs Patchwerk which is the standard all-out dps fight most people use to see effective raid damage.

Gee he's all the way at number 16. There are NINE dps classes above him, and he's almost tied with the tenth class, the druid.

QED

i find that invalid as the current gap of non 80 vs 80s compared to say pre bc/TBC is a lil too wide due to how high itemlevel has evolved through the 10 levels and the level 80 raid/pvp epics.

simply put, even if ur class is shit, but if ur beating on a non80, chances are even if hes a dk or something, you'd still kill him. hard or not would be another story. if this were say, EARLY wotlk when DK was so hella broken, then perhaps yes. however this applies only to DKs

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 4:23 pmi believe he was making a point that ret's pve dps isnt as horrible as how many would exaggerate.

If anything, rogues pve dps qq'ing would be a lot more considering how long they throned the dps meters. due to how the rediculous hit rating requirement (thats never revised on WOTLK) and how other classes are scaling a lot better with their basic stats (AP/SP) while rogues sacrifice a lot for hit rating.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 8 2009, 04:23 PM

simple classification of a hybrid class wanting to out dps pure dps classes... you also mentioned that you can heal amirite? I rest my case.

Mmm amend that to fresh 80s then. If you're a fresh 80, do you still avoid certain classes even though they are a little lower level? And if you're a lowbie but you can see the 80 near you have comparable hp, would you fancy your chances in attacking him?

Ah well.

I don't deny that pure dps classes should be doing more dps than the hybrids. That's how I like to play it too.

Even Ghostcrawler has said Rogue, Mage, Warlock and Hunters are the pure dps classes that should be doing significantly more dps than the other classes. And I agree with this.

But wth are warriors doing with 1k dps more on the list? The shaman 500dps more? And don't forget this is an undead mob where the Pally supposedly has an edge. Die lah in Ulduar liddat!

warriors are getting TG nerfs

well if its directed to me, ill be honest and say yes. because when i was fresh 80, and dks were totally broken back then, even if the dk is like 77-79 (well under that im sure i wont have a problem) and IS COMPETANT at being a DK, then too bad, i wont win.

MARK OF BLOOD = HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
(thanks blizz for the nerf)

yeap. all i ever did was healing the dk. (hey at least i was a healer for a short while aye?)

the answer to how a ret could not be OP: -

how can ret be OP if they cant get close to u in the first place...
currently, all ret have is 10yards to deal damage (though 30 yards with exorcism in 3.1)...
this is among the biggest problem rets are having and if they dun judge, they dun get JoW for mana...
besides a ret could never burst down a decent healer (which is why the CS testing few weeks ago)...
these are the weakness of a ret and simple counter to it...

the problem as all high rated arena palyers as well as blizzard would know is that the ones OP are holy (hybrid to ret for JoW) which is fixed in 3.1...
post 3.03, ret has been badly hit which is why GC have claimed that ret's damage are just too low...
3.00-3.03 is where ret are imba and all u see are FoTM rets running around...

most ret would be wiling to trade away their bubble for a range closure or more CC...
being balanced around bubble is wut killed ret...
let alone being OP...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 8 2009, 06:34 PM

Yes I did. I put a ^ to show I agree with what he posted.

good god... its so not obvious he isn't another ret pally player... amirite? you two probably deserve each other...
try playing a priest and tell me how rets could never burst down a decent healer

there's a type of 3v3 team called holyplay in case u didnt know, it consists of ret/disc/shaman...
a ret for main dps in a 3v3 team, that's saying alot... you guys seriously need to pull your heads out of your asses and realise that.

heh wow it seems like ages since the buffed up ret pallies, best balance seen pvp grand marshals are ret pallies and that was 4 years ago. look on the brightside, you kill some but not all classes, which is fair. u guys should try failhammer lol. destro's classes mostly fails.

Paladins and Death Knights too dominant
We think DKs and Holy paladins are too dominant in Arenas. Beyond those two there are some imbalances, but you are going to find a lot of debate among the community about who it is, and I think that might come to dominate the rest of the thread. The "two-shotting" is a little exaggerated in most cases.
- Ghostcrawler (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/16137366298-six-things-ruining-this-game.html)

still think ret are the imba ones?

"Arenas" being the operative word. I don't run from Holy Paladins anywhere else.

your post gave me a severe mental image of head > ass in a 6:9 position. thanks.
and because of my suffering from the mental trauma i will pass it on to everyone else because sharing is caring




p/s: you forgot to add in holy play doesnt even have a -50% healing debuff

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 8:49 amoi failhammer out of context yo. somemore its failhammer wut, meant to to fail. nothing surprising ya?

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 8:50 amGC did not say:

"ret is not imba"

error 404 intelligence not found in evofantasy's posts

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 9 2009, 08:50 AM

i'm not so sure what really happened to quaz in that arena, but 1 HoJ really kills.... of course you also need to count in the plate wearing warlock-like-heroic class with steroids death grip that closes the gap between you and the paladin, dots, pets, debuffs... of course burst damage for ret paladin slightly over scaled...

i think many posters referring to 1v1 situation, but in reality sometimes you don't have the privilege to use it: HoF/ LoH to flag carrier or yourself in bg? stopping twink healers from healing? forcing opponent to pop their trinket for that slight pvp advantage?

I like running around with DKs when comes to BG since they can spank and tank at the same time, what i do usually is spamming FoL onto the DK and spamming HoW macro to DK's target (stealing HK needs certain skills )

more copy pasta

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/309/balances.jpg

arenas ok la, usually retdin got assist dmg so nothing much to say bout that. just the usual pvp ranting (could be BG/outdoor also wut, even if its noob PVP )

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 10:41 am=edit=
omg thats actually just one and the 2nd is a dissipate ROFL.

timestamp's all 6:17 OTL

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 9 2009, 11:06 AM

investment to lower HoJ CD (30 sec with talent and gears) and the use of SoB (rather than seals of 'roulette' ) for that ret paladin really pays off...

as i've claimed before, going into prot tree with a gylph as well as gear would reduce it to 20 sec or 30 sec in 3.1
no1 is denying it but without a gap clossure, it sitll means nothing and u sacrifice some of the important talents in ret...
and the images are dispicitates which all those trolls jumped onto the boat bashing it before running back to edit it...
lovely work done there lol...

a JoB crits for 4.6k with 33% recoil to the ret sound alright with the judgement as the biggest hit a ret would have (besides HoW)
when 3.1 hits, most rets would be back using SoC when the changes to SoB are made so back to roulette seal...

wut's coming in 3.1 is exorcism working on ALL targets with 100% crit on undead...
if ret is so OP why give us such a wonderful tool to play wit?
30 yard high damage holy atk to further add to the burst...

as for the arena discussion, mr quatz has been claiming getting rolled by ret over at arena now with GC's post...
QQ i got 100-0 in a single HoJ, otehr classes have stuns do so why is ret in the equation when u die in stun?
ret are soooooooooooo OP that they are dominating the arena (when in reality its DKs and holydins)...

yes ret is sooooo OP that they decided to make it imba!!!
thanks bliz!

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 9 2009, 01:19 PM

you don't understand do you? Its because its so OP that people are already complaining about giving them extra dmg... get a clue dumbass.
like i said, a hybrid as main and only dps in a 3v3 team is f***ed up, not matter how you put it.

meh, if you've actually saw the screenshotted convo between me and the genius, you would've known that its futile to even bring up logic and reason towards him.

btw regarding holyplay, to be fair, the resto sham can also dps, and so is the priest. especially when WOTLK SP changes, healers actually dish out pretty disgusting dmg in addition to their lasting capability. not to mention you're forced to train the priest and if you dont, your team gets spam burns, and thus leaving the ret unattended (even with RMP (generally a comp with the most controls), there isnt a lot of CC to really guarantee a control over ret, dispels/poison cleanse/HOF/HOP are RMP's bane) and hes free to pve style dps tunnel vision someone to death.

blizz are the ones wit the numbers...
that would justify how OP ret are claimed to be and how are they buffed...
wutever QQ on the forums won't matter as the numbers shows otherwise...

prz do dish out pretty decent damage...
dun look down on a prz...
even if the prz dun damage, its a draining compo having 3 possible healers at a moment to outlast 3dps teams out there...
for draining compo, the DPS aren't impressive at all thus it does nt justify ret being OP despite being the dps-er of the compo...
not to mention that most holyplay compo nowadays runs holydin over rets to curb the increasing burst compo...

All this smack talk and you have no justification what so ever for that 17k dmg in one HoJ. 17,000 DAMAGE. IN ONE STUN. And only one of those attacks is a crit. Only ONE crit.

And the best you come up with is "it means nothing without a gap closure". Well how exactly did the pally did that to the RESTO druid, the most MOBILE of all healers? You know, the one everyone raged about?

oh...wow...

thanks for making my day. im laughing so hard at office now.

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 2:54 pmpsst *JOJ* XD

but yeah, it goes without saying that reason/logic and him doesnt coexist lol. you'd think with all the shifts, roots, bearbash, cat maim, feral charge etc etc, you'd get away from the supposedly kited retdin or whatever hes saying LOL

i dont know, that retdin prolly haxed and is swing his weapons 20 yards away, like that leonidas guy from 300. maybe.

btw you got any idea on that blur problem?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 9 2009, 02:54 PM

ret arent holy wit 30 yards JoJ in the first place...
if u get into 10 yards to be HoJ in ur face, its ur own fault...
ret cant charge or grip u over...

and we all do know HoJ is among the longest stun out there...
wut's the difference with being stunlocked by other classes?
1 HoJ can be trinket out but multiple stuns can't...
both would have almost similiar total time (cough)..

guess wut?
in 3.1, ret get to exorcism u for 30 yards after the HoJ...
so its 23k damage now?

how on earth does a ret hit u from 20 yards?
a ret only have 10 yards for HoJ and judgement, 8 yards DS, melee range CS...
unless u are 20% health where i can HoW u for 30 yards...
seriously get ur facts rite bout ret b4 rubbish claims of being hit 20 yards away...
wut to expect from a guy that claimed DS and CS are holy damage with the only physical skill a ret has is the white swing damage ...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 9 2009, 03:11 PM

^

anyone thats kind enough mind explaining to this clueless poor soul? rofl.
i just cant stop laughing.

I'm pretty sure the victim in the screenshot knows what he's doing. Afterall he's rated 2112 in 2v2. I doubt he was shuffling along in tree form.

If a 2100 rated resto druid wearing enough resilience to only get critted once in 17k damage and gets killed by a Paladin within one stun, do you really think it's the druid's fault?

For the record, the screenshot was the second HoJ. He trinketed the first one, used his Barkskin and instant healed to full, ran around until the Paladin's HoJ came back up and then the screenshot happened.

Don't tell me high rated resto druids don't know how to run/escape from a melee class.

I think it's just Lowyat's quoting system that does it.

This post has been edited by ray123: Apr 9 2009, 03:16 PM

fact: people would only be happy when their class is able to roll any possible class out there b4 QQ-ing...

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 3:15 pmever occured to u that the ret is a better player then?

1 case prove nothing which is why blizzard are the ones having the numbers, not u, not me, not any1 else...
the 'IF' factor are nothing when looking at a huge sample case which is wut blizzard based on during balancing...
it alone justify wutever nerfs and buffs blizzard made for ret in 3.1...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 9 2009, 03:17 PM

Rets are OP because they're ridiculously easy to play, a retard playing a ret pally is almost as effective as a pro because of stupid class mechanics. If you know how the high end retadins play you'll not be defending the class. All they do is just turtle the pillar/crate until their HOJ is ready, after that get the someone down to 80% with a hit or two, then /castsequence HOJ, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Engi trinket, Judgement, HoWrath. If it fails they jack off out of LoS for 30s to 1min and do it again, rinse and repeat till you get the RNG. Such a simple strat and it works against every comp out there and the pally only has to push 2 buttons. I have a friend who is a crappy player with like 800ms ping hit 2200 in 2v2 just doing that simple strat paired with a shaman. Holy pallies are OP but at least they require more skill to play, a retadin is just retarded and is for the retarded.

you seem to be the person with the most patience in this thread and doesnt seem to have given up on him yet.

you wanna do the honors on explaining it to him?

p/s: btw you know the druid/aggroboy?

=edit=
ugh but im using fast/quick reply thingy. sometime it blurs, sometime it doesnt, sometime it simply blurs random msg

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 9 2009, 03:18 PM

Ever occurred to you that even bad players who happen to be playing Retdins are doing this now?

You're right, people would be happy if they can face roll any possible class. Well, tell me, which class can easily face roll over a Ret Paladin? Who do you have serious problems against?

He's on my server. We used to raid together in Molten Core. We still do pug Naxx-25man runs weekly together.

This post has been edited by ray123: Apr 9 2009, 03:23 PM

a good hunter and mage who knows wut's he is doing...
some good healers are close to impossible to burst down...
and of course some really fabulous locks who just kill u before u could even kill him...

and yet i am happy that i would never be able to kill them unless i could land a HoJ or JoJ on the range dudes while good timing vs healers..

again i quote my previous post (based on the ever occured issues)
"1 case prove nothing which is why blizzard are the ones having the numbers, not u, not me, not any1 else...
the 'IF' factor are nothing when looking at a huge sample case which is wut blizzard based on during balancing...
it alone justify wutever nerfs and buffs blizzard made for ret in 3.1..."

i believe unless the numbers show so, a class is not OP in any ways...

edit: i missed out DKs as the faceroll class that i have prob wit...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 9 2009, 03:28 PM

i beg to differ. ive played ret on TR and they definitely arent easy to play mainly due to the offensive/defensive roles they have to take up (cleanse/HOF/HOP etc on teammates and not just yourself) and because of that, its most likely not the reason why ret are op.

the *MAIN* reason why ret's op is because of the number of instants they can save up for the HOJ + trinkets etc to score a kill. not to mention a huge majority of their dmg ignores armor.

btw, theres a reason why retdins are called retardins

That's right, nobody should lose to a clueless noob who's just mashing the buttons. However, right now, there are tons of clueless Retdins who are doing exactly that, and winning in general, not just Arena. It's because their damage output is too high. And they can be invulnerable while doing it, notwithstanding the 50% dmg reduction.

I disparage Retdins because they can do so much with so little drawbacks.

DKs are worse. DKs are made for special children. That why this can happen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIXYMY4dOmI-

This post has been edited by ray123: Apr 9 2009, 03:36 PM

what numbers are you looking for? arena representation? ghostcrawler already said they don't balance based on that, which is why feral druids got nerfed even though there aren't that many doing well in arena. i'm pretty sure bliz knows you guys are overpowered just that they don't really have a good solution on how to nerf you guys yet without killing your pve performance.

i don't really have problem with ret burst as long as they make it harder to execute, somewhere along the lines of a mage shatter combo. not some crap where you can 100-0 someone using a castsequence.

oohhhh i see. long time buddies then? lulz

Yeah, but we're not in the same guild anymore. Haven't been in a long time. For some reason I find myself playing more comfortably with Singaporeans and foreigners than with Malaysians (he's in a Malaysian guild). Maybe because I'm not used to hearing Cantonese on vent kekeke.

ah i see i see. sorta same here ^^
which is why i never bothered to transfer off US stormscale despite the community of asiapacific players are so little these day (was MUCH better back pre-bc/BC days)

sure it gave me a LOT of inconvenience especially while climbing arena ranks, but its kewl, so long im happy aye?

not arena representations...
matchups, damage done, kills etc...
all of these could be found in logs and compiled, not shown to us (some of it justifying the SoB changes in PTR)...
there was a blue post back then claiming some spreadsheet and the same for warhammer back then as well...

sure but instead blizzard chose to buff ret in giving exorcism usable on all target?
a ret can't do a single burst without getting close to u and he has no tools to close the gap towards you unlike warriors, rogue etc...
to me, that's the hard part in executing the burst...
which is high a good hunter and a mage can kite a ret and kill off the ret in 1v1 situations...
thus partnering a DK, he can grip over the target negating some of the drawbacks of a ret in chasing the target...
of course there would be nerf to DG to come (considering all the pulling skilsl in warhammer suffered the same fate)

not to mention the tightness in terms of mana from multiple cleanse chasing around the target (thoguh 3.1 would changed it with 25% JoW)...
the only ret burst nerf in 3.1 was the crit chance and the DoTs (doesn't matter) which is nothing compared to the DS, exorcism and CS triggering DoTs buffs (and pretty soon CS buff)...

OMG... a pally complaining about mana problems... WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO???

yes, i have roll a new ret pally..thats the thing.
and my friend suggest the name Failly lol

patch 3.1 evofantasy: IMMA BE CHARGIN MAH EXORCISM!!!!

u never play a ret do u?

after the chances to JoW at 15%, mana is a poblem from multiple cleansing and minor heals...
a full burst would take around 50% of the mana alone (including poping AW) together with the cleanse etc, its definately an issue...
no point using the 25% HoT when it cuts ur healng by half...
which is why ret would rejoice at the newly buffed JoW to 25%...

only holy is the pally that does not have mana issues (fixed in 3.1)...
so sitll think ret is OP?
i think so cause it makes clueless ppl QQ moar!

letme get this straight: so now you think ret is op? lulz

yes cause i decided to go wit the crowd to say that ret is OP...
but of course why i think its OP is different...

ps: if u cant get to the 10 yard range, u get no mana from JoW triggers...

ps2: exorcism is a big mana sink as well but with that damage, its worth it being better than HoW...

---

Added on April 9, 2009, 11:06 pmhttp://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=48493.0

new arena standing...
see the top teams?
still think ret is imba?
it seems that the pros knows to play and nt jz sit around QQ-ing for nerfs...

lots of RMP, 0 of the so called famous holyplay by some forummer
not to mention most if not all of the pally are holy, nt ret (u do the checking urself)...

@ quartz
now are u convince by me now about RMP as a viable compo (or are u going to go to sk-gaming again and deny RMP being good dying to facerolling ret)?
9th in US, top 3 and 10th in europe...
waiting for u to eat up ur words...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 9 2009, 11:14 PM

*gasp*

like, pally's HL, FoL, cleanse, HoS, HoF, BoP, exorsim, turn evil use bullets instead of mana?? the hand lifting, finger twitching action plus the flash of light/ coiling effect happened on bg members and pots, drinks wasted for mana just 15 minutes ago are all my illusions???

where have all my mana gone, long time passing~~
where have all the mana gone, Long time ago~~~
where have all the mana gone, warlock comes and suck them up~~~
when will they ever learn?
oh, when will they ever learn?

that's it... must be the warlocks...

another example of idiots playing ret pallies thinking its hard... who cares about mana if you're gona burst down people in 1 HOJ... theorycraft much?
You mentioned that common sense isn't godsent, but does god hate you that much?

---

Added on April 10, 2009, 1:02 amhttp://www.wowhead.com/?spell=54428
friendly advise, get to level 80 before throwing sarcastic remarks... it makes you look clueless, no really.

This post has been edited by sets84: Apr 10 2009, 01:02 AM

are you SERIOUSLY bringing TR standings for your argument? oh wow, im really impressed. no seriously.
so like a handful of players represent the entire live server? nice.

giving you the benefit of the doubt (considering ur brain levels is >9000) i would think that you are having some bad case of fat fingers or cock eyes (actually both, really.) that you cant even get my name right. or maybe ur having too much fantasies and you cant see anything beyond that? most likely.

on to the subject:
- WHEN THE HELL ive mentioned RMP not being a VIABLE comp?
- EU TR = the world. right.

so what words am i gonna eat this time? your bullshit? no thanks, they prolly taste like... oh yea bullshit right? yeap.

oh, now the level 80 card is played... should i go QQ and called my mommy + guildies because someone with level 80 toon thinks retribution paladin should get epic gears that pumps intellect and mana regen... i play my lowbie retribution paladin the wrong way... i mean, i only got few blues ones from some lower dungeon/AH and others are green... they are mostly pumping stamina and strength, no wonder my mana doesn't regen fast even with replenishment effect...

then again, in a pvp server/ wintergrasp/ battle ground, hordes and alliances alike are ladies/gentlemen and will gladly do 1v1 with you even there are 12 of them and 5 of you... /OOM?? No problem... they'll just wait for you to kill the mob, cleanse, heal, cast DP/ drink and start a friendly duel... and don't worry, you are the only retribution paladin, others (including my lowbie pally) are coined as lolret because of the stupidity of going hostile to opponent and using mana for cleansing/ buffing/ healing other allies in such situation... THEY JUST WANNA BE FRIENDS EVEN IF YOU ARE FLAGGED FOR PVP!!!

what a *wonderful daydream* it is in this imaginary world of Azeroth... or maybe i should just tone down my sarcasm a bit...

GC mentioned about how arena can be a drag race on which healers go /oom, hence the burst damage is implemented to shorte arena time, and it got slightly out of control for certain class...

they call it the graveyard zerg for a reason. or in arenas, fight dont last long enough for mana to be a problem.

and yes, is out of hand for a few class, and no thats not even what the majority is complaining about now.

wow big wall of text... i honestly cbf of how you play your class
my statement was simple, trying to be funny and act like you actually have a fragment of the clue when you absolutely have none makes you look like an idiot...
there... i tried to refrain from the names calling but then again you had to go and make a bigger ass out of yourself

go along, facerolling your class "the way you like it" and lie to yourself that you actually have skill.

This post has been edited by sets84: Apr 10 2009, 01:50 PM

it was in ur pm...
quoting the sk-gaming top 100 thingy and claiming that RMP are not there...
oops out of troll cookies, next!

---

Added on April 10, 2009, 10:16 pmthe only stat a ret would pump pre-3.1 would be str...
since it benefits DPS the most over hit rating, haste etc...
not to mention most of a ret's skill is based on % of mana over a fixed amount...
nt to mention that without any1 healing u, SA wont get u any mana back...

somehow, ret has gotten so imba that it has infinite mana...
dun mention about holy going oom as now ret without any mana talent wont go oom!

---

Added on April 10, 2009, 10:19 pmin arena, fight to last long enuff for mana to matter...
there is drain compo for 3s and 5s...
read GC's latest post about replenisment in arena...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Apr 10 2009, 10:19 PM

i'd still go for stamina as the 1st priority, the reason is simple: no matter how godly paladin pump their strength (over 9000??), they'll still can't really use it if their stamina can't withstand the burst damage that opponents is giving out...

like, when your main concern for pvp are stamina, strength, crit rating, agility...

let me get what you're trying to say with your MUET Band 6 scores...
you're implying that holydin goes OOM?
I rest my case... you're more delusional than I thought.

and Instant_Noodle... stop trying to make a fool out of yourself if you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a level 75 Ret paladin and thus I know what divine plea at least does.

just when i thought your paladin had reached end game level that can make your voice go louder than mine and requesting lowbie me to get to same level before i made any comments...

a 3rd last runner laughing at the last runner for being last in a marathon race... it really makes you feel great, yeah??

wow you even assumed I had a paladin in the first place.... I'll give you credit for that. I'm sorry, my laughing at you was just plain simple... I laugh at you cos you're being retarded. I don't need a paladin at level 80 to know that it is OP, I play against them and with a lil more research I know why they are OP. The level 75 pally is just a statement of knowing how imbalanced the state of Divine Plea is for ret.

And stop posting so seriously, I need more sarcasm out of that uninformed brain of yours to amuse me a lil more.

i normally stack as much str as i could from gems and enchants unless there's better ones (as i took mining, i get 50 extra stamina from it)...
different playstyle i guess, i'm more to glass cannon build which explains why i die to locks out there lol...
maybe i should add some stamina to myself...

did u even read wut i said in and through the line?
nt jz part of the sentence...
the meaning of that sentence alone is: since ret would never go oom, surely a holy which has more mana enchancement talents, gears etc would never go oom...
seriously, are u really from MIT? dun disgrace the ivy league...

and using divine plea?
its like giving a signal to the opposing side to burst u down since u are getting 50% less heal for 25% mana HoT for that period of time...
the animation and sound when divine plea is cast is pretty obvious...

he doesn't realize that winning in the special olympic doesn't make him special...

might be different play style, like how i place all 5 talent points in BoKings, bet you're using the 1st 5 talent points for the extra strength.

hey, i did met up with a tauren shaman whose at least 10 level higher and i got him down to 40% before he kills me and i was just lv 51 that time without bubble sand LoH...

"OGMAIGAWD PALLY ISH TEH OPEE!!!"
"but the truth is..."
"OWH SHATTAP!!! U JUST DEE-PEE-A-TAUREN'S-ASS!!! OP!!!! NERF THEM BACK TO FREE HK!!!"

well, nobody likes the truth about how i did it right, BECAUSE RETRIBUTION PALADINS ARE PLAIN OP!!!

on the other hand, i was talking to a friend...

noodles: you know the new movie, <place movie name here>...
friend 1: ya i saw it, but i left 20 minutes b4 it ends, the good guy wins and the bad guys dead
noodles: actually the synopsis said a plot twist in the end, and the good guy actually...
friend 1: (cut in) I BEEN TO THE MOVIE AND THAT'S THAT!!! END OF STORY!!!
noodles: ...