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> Condo Fire Insurance (FI), Building Management FI vs Bank Loan FI (Household)

Vmaker
post Apr 4 2009, 08:53 PM


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Hi,

I have this situation.. my condo building management is asking to pay for the fire insurance yearly where they have include under my building maintenance bill..

if my bank loan already covered with fire insurance.. but the building management insist me to pay for the fire insurance which they engaged with and i should pay it yearly to them..

At this point, can i make a choice either to choose any 1 of the insurance and at this case if i would only want to stick with the bank loan fire insurance..?
- meaning i dont want to pay to the building management for their fire insurance..

~ any act i could refer to?

I saw this in the internet but im not sure if it could be use..
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...99391/s174.html

This post has been edited by Vmaker: Apr 5 2009, 02:25 AM
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ah liew
post Apr 4 2009, 09:42 PM


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thats unfair & you're paying double!
consult your bank about this matter otherwise get lawyers advise.
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Vmaker
post Apr 4 2009, 10:09 PM


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Emm i agree on that.. but before i seek/refer to lawyer i would want to ask if anyone encounter with this situation.. coz for me (in logic thinking of mine) why i should pay for another if i already have one.. and furthermore i dont want another.. - if i want to have two, that is different case.

Am i bond with some kind of law that i should pay the fire insurance provided by the building management even though i dont want it coz i already have another.

This post has been edited by Vmaker: Apr 4 2009, 10:21 PM
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??!!
post Apr 4 2009, 11:43 PM


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The Strata Title Act stipulates that the management corporation is responsible to insure the property under a master insurance policy. It is mandatory that owners pay their share towards this insurance.

Banks as a matter of 'procedure' ( actually it is doing it for the money) insures properties financed by them and bills borrowers accordingly.

In respect of strata properties, owners should have a copy of the master insurance and forward to their financier. Any other insurance for the property will be double insurance and does not serve any purpose except to bring in commission to the bank. Tell the bank you will not pay for the insurance if they insist to buy for your behalf.
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Vmaker
post Apr 5 2009, 02:39 AM


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QUOTE(??!! @ Apr 4 2009, 11:43 PM)
The Strata Title Act stipulates that the management corporation is responsible to insure the property under a master insurance policy. It is mandatory that owners pay their share towards this insurance.

Banks as a matter of 'procedure' ( actually it is doing it for the money) insures properties financed by them and bills borrowers accordingly.

In respect of strata properties, owners should have a copy of the master insurance and forward to their financier. Any other insurance for the property will be double insurance and does not serve any purpose except to bring in commission to the bank. Tell the bank you will not pay for the insurance if they insist to buy for your behalf.
*
Meaning i have to choose the fire insurance provided by the building management, and should go to the bank and tell i dont want the fire insurance from the bank, and bring along the copy of the insurance?

If this is the case, is it a must that i (and all the residents) should take the fire insurance provided by the building management?
Dont we have any other choice? What if some resident dont like the insurance provided by the building management? Is it wrong if someone dont take any fire insurance at all?
- like for example if an individual dont take Life Insurance it is not a law-breaking.. people can choose if they want to take life insurance or not (example only).

- sorry for the long questions...


This i found from internet, sorry for the first post, the link is not working.. now its ok..
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/con...99391/s174.html >> Link

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??!!
post Apr 5 2009, 02:20 PM


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The link you provided appears to refer to requirement for Bldg Commissioners to be buy cover for public liability indemnity .

Back to your question, imagine this scenerio.
Condo A is a project that consists of a bldg of 10 storeys with 3 units per floor.
The project also comprises of common areas and facilities which are owned in common by all parcel owners like swimming pool, club house, car park,etc.


Say for example, owner of 2 units (out of the 30 parcel owners) - one on level 3 another on level 7 did not buy insurance for their units.
A fire breaks out and burn down the whole bldg block plus some parts of the club house.
Insurance claims from the balance of the units (28 # ) will not be sufficient to rebuild the whole bldg..unlike a landed property, units cannot be stacked on top of level 3 and 7 which are not rebuilt. Also, since owners only cover for their own parcels, the common areas/facilities are not covered.


Yes...it is mandatory for management coperation to insure the whole project under a master insurance cover and parcel owners are legally bound to pay their share of the insurance accordingly. Owners do not have the perogative to choose not to pay nor opt not to insure.
If you don't buy life insurance, it doesn't afftect other parties. But if you don't buy insurance for your parcel, the whole project will face difficulties in rebuilding due to your action/non action.

If owners are not happy with managing agent, they can influence the council members who appoint the managing agent to change the managing agent,
If owners are not happy with council members, then they should take responsibility to elect council members who they feel can act best in the interest of owners

This post has been edited by ??!!: Apr 5 2009, 02:23 PM
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Vmaker
post Apr 6 2009, 04:56 AM


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QUOTE(??!! @ Apr 5 2009, 02:20 PM)
The link you provided appears to refer to requirement for Bldg Commissioners to be buy cover for public liability indemnity .

Back to your question, imagine this scenerio.
Condo A is a project that consists of a bldg of 10 storeys with 3 units per floor.
The project also comprises of common areas and facilities which are owned in common by all parcel owners like swimming pool, club house, car park,etc.
Say for example, owner of 2 units (out of the 30 parcel owners) - one on level 3  another on level 7 did not buy insurance for their units.
A fire breaks out and burn down the whole bldg block plus some parts of the club house.
Insurance claims from the balance of the units (28 # ) will not be sufficient to rebuild the whole bldg..unlike a landed property, units cannot be stacked on top of level 3 and 7 which are not rebuilt. Also, since owners only cover for their own parcels, the common areas/facilities are not covered.
Yes...it is mandatory for management coperation to insure the whole project under a master insurance cover and parcel owners are legally bound to pay their share of the insurance accordingly. Owners do not have the perogative to choose not to pay nor opt not to insure.
If you don't buy life insurance, it doesn't afftect other parties. But if you don't buy insurance for your parcel, the whole project will face difficulties in rebuilding due to your action/non action.

If owners are not happy with managing agent, they can influence the council members who appoint the managing agent to change the managing agent,
If owners are not happy with council members, then they should take responsibility to elect council members who they feel can act best in the interest of owners
*
Wah.. really a good/excellent answer.. I’m satisfied.
I will now go and pay for the outstanding of my building management fire insurance – it has been pending for 3 years, hehehehe... sweat.gif
You have opened my eye and point me to correct direction.

But 1 more thing, what can I do/should do for the fire insurance that earlier came together with the bank loan?

Thanks again.
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??!!
post Apr 6 2009, 10:52 AM


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Re the insurance premium paid by the bank. For the current year, you can tell the bank that since the project is covered by the MC, they do not need to buy insurance for your unit. If they request, give them a copy of the master copy of insurance which the MC shld have given to owners. Don't be surprised if some bankers are not aware of this issue and insists that u take their insurance cover. If that happens, tell the manager to check with their association.

For past years' premium, u can try to demand for refund, but I think it's remoteu will get a refund . Since you have not objected to it earlier and have paid for it. Also i think a bit tough for the bank to revers their accounts for previous years.


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sam0919
post Apr 6 2009, 12:50 PM


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TS jus attach the master fire insurance policy from ur management side to the bank and ask for waiver of the fire insurance from the bank.
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eyng
post Apr 13 2009, 10:51 PM


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QUOTE(??!! @ Apr 6 2009, 10:52 AM)
Re the insurance premium paid by the bank. For the current year, you can tell the bank that since the project is covered by the MC, they do not need to buy insurance for your unit. If they request, give them a copy of the master copy of insurance which the MC shld have given to owners. Don't be surprised if some bankers are not aware of  this issue and insists that u take their insurance cover. If that happens, tell the manager to check with their association.

For  past years' premium, u can try to demand for refund, but I think it's remoteu will get a refund . Since you have not objected to it earlier and have paid for it. Also i think a bit tough for the bank to revers their accounts for previous years.
*
Yes. I agree with you. Banks also do financing for condo/apartments hence it is impossible that they do not know what is going on. The bank will be happy if you can furnish proof that your unit is insured.

The insurer will not refund the premium as when there is a loss, under property policy, there is a clause called "contribution". This effectively means that both policies will be sharing the loss amount proportionately, hence the insurer will have to take into account on the time on risk (that is for how long that this building is insured). You can write in to cancel your policy and get back some refund but I suggest you look at coverage for your household content instead as the Building Mgmt policy only covers the building and not the contents of each and every unit.
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jasonhanjk
post Apr 14 2009, 08:55 AM


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Good thread. Bookmarked. biggrin.gif
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a6meister
post Apr 15 2009, 11:11 AM


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this is what used to happen to me. the bank, standard charterd bank charge me about rm 380 together with my spot month housing loan installment. they did send me a letter stated is a fire insurance but did not describe much.

actually, they should clarify further, such as, if it is a condo, the management team will purchase it on behalf of us, and demand the amount from us. but, the bank did not clarify that, which i think is their stratergy to make extra money from us, if we are negligence, and end up buing 2 fire insurance.

basically, just ask the bank to call the management directly, get the copy of master fire insurance policy from them.


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lowyat888
post Apr 15 2009, 12:31 PM


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some insurance only cover the common area and outside area and the outside building only of the condo by the management and the condo inside not cover so have to cover the inside provided by the bank on another insurance policy

This post has been edited by lowyat888: Apr 15 2009, 12:32 PM
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??!!
post Apr 15 2009, 01:54 PM


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QUOTE(lowyat888 @ Apr 15 2009, 12:31 PM)
some insurance only cover the common area and outside area and the outside building only of the condo by the management and the condo inside not cover so have to cover the inside provided by the bank on another insurance policy
*
You mean the cover does not include house content?...of course we are talking about fire( plus other perils) insurance for the bldg structure only
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cwtien
post Apr 16 2009, 02:05 PM


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QUOTE(a6meister @ Apr 15 2009, 11:11 AM)
this is what used to happen to me. the bank, standard charterd bank charge me about rm 380 together with my spot month housing loan installment. they did send me a letter stated is a fire insurance but did not describe much.

actually, they should clarify further, such as, if it is a condo, the management team will purchase it on behalf of us, and demand the amount from us. but, the bank did not clarify that, which i think is their stratergy to make extra money from us, if we are negligence, and end up buing 2 fire insurance.

basically, just ask the bank to call the management directly, get the copy of master fire insurance policy from them.
*
Very irritating eh? I've been having this issue with SCB for 2-3 years now. If I don't reply they will automatically confirm the fire insurance (RM300+ as opposed to the master insurance RM100+ only).

At least they have a clause there that said they will cancel their insurance if you forward them a copy of the valid insurance from your management body.
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lowyat888
post Apr 19 2009, 06:14 PM


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QUOTE(??!! @ Apr 15 2009, 01:54 PM)
You mean the cover does not include house content?...of course we are talking about fire( plus other perils) insurance for the bldg structure only
*
not the content inside of the condo of course, just the common area means not the the owner area eg like gymn, office area, roof etc not yr condo inside area.
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??!!
post Apr 19 2009, 07:45 PM


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The master insurance policy covers the structure (Bldg that holds the apartment units) plus all common areas and common facilities.
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leongal
post Nov 15 2009, 10:04 AM


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my mortgage broker says that usually fire insurance is paid through the sinking fund....correct? (ya, mine is a condo unit)

abit confused here; cos from this thread, it seems that we have to pay ourselves....
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magna_voxx
post Nov 15 2009, 10:17 AM


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Nope,JMB can only utilize SF as mentioned in Strata title act. Fire insurance covered by insurance premium paid by management, the one JMB colllect from resident..
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leongal
post Nov 15 2009, 10:18 AM


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QUOTE(magna_voxx @ Nov 15 2009, 10:17 AM)
Nope,JMB can only utilize SF as mentioned in Strata title act. Fire insurance covered by insurance premium paid by management, the one JMB colllect from resident..
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oh ok....thanks....
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rastakilla
post Jun 21 2013, 12:02 AM


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HI Guys,
Does anyone know why is it compulsory to pay fire insurance for a commercial property but its opted when it comes to residential property (or perhaps the developer pays it/building mgmt pays it for you). Can someone explain on this? Really need to know quite urgently. Thanks a bunch.
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