I also thought of using present value but cost of capital is not given & there are a lot of other assumptions that needs to be clarified from entire balance sheet. I thought of using NRV but company will probably remain going concern after that & taking scrap value seems a bit of writing down the asset value by a tremenduous amt. But if assume the worst case scenario then NRV seems a good indicator of generating the minimum return.

The answer sheet was silent on this issue as it totally exclude reconstruction part in its draft since answer stretch for 4 pages from other areas as well. The argument of the vast difference in book value & NRV could be explained bcos of the lack of demand for the asset if company went into liquidation.

Well if PV amt cannot be determined I assume the value given in B/S would be the closest value since the amt was also derived from PV calculation if impairment of asset is being reviewed or tested (again its assumption).

There is no age requirement for CAT but if ou start at 20 it is quite late but its still the fastest route to finish acca. You can probably come out at age 23 & start working already.
Degree serves like a safety net if you cannot progress through acca you still have degree as back-up. But of course it will take longer by at least another 2 years.

If you don't have any basics for accounting then you should really take CAT to bolster your foundation for later on.
If you really want to take all courses at 1 centre (strictly speaking I will not recommend it but unless convenience is an important factor).

Sunway is quite famous for CAT programme & lower levels of acca but at higher level its best to seek out specialised lecturer.
Unless you think cost is also a factor then you can begin at KSA.

Mind you there is no universal solution to all problems & sacrifice needs to be made to ensure continuing progress.
As long as you graduate any qualifcation by age 25 it should be ok or else people (employers) will question why you take longer than average period to finish the course.

The first combined code was compilation of Cadbury (scandal of maxwell corp), Greenbury (scandal of british gas) & Hampel.
The redrafted (newer) combined code consist of the 3 above plus Turnbull, Higgs & Smith.

But question will rarely asked history of C.G. Its the component inside like Roles which you should concentrate bcos it cames out every sitting without fail yet.

I can summarised about P3 after several surveys with other fellow students.

If you are the asian type of student : go for Parmindar
that means you like "brute force" style which fires as many example & answer to one question. parmidar is kind of "holistic" lecturer which like to use several model for one answer.

If you are the western type of student : go for Michael Mainwaring (Mco)
that means you prefer "one shot one kill" style which normally centred on one model of answer for each question. But you will explain & elaborate a lot based on that one model.

Either way both are very experienced & highly regarded by many students. But there is no perfect lecturer as in there is no perfect antivirus software. It depends on your own needs & wants.

I have attend Parmindar class before & I think his class worth it (as its cheaper compared to most out there) but I think several hundreds of students also think the same.

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Added on May 1, 2009, 4:16 pmA common misconception that many TAR students told over their course of study is that "Exempted" doesnt actually mean you "Passed" the subject. On paper you may look like passed but in substance you "may" not or may be. The truth is both are very different in nature.

Second is that you don't have to take all papers at 1 centre. You can choose based the lecturer that you preferred. Try to ask some of your TAR seniors that have followed similar route before.

The option you mentioned I notice a recurring theme which you try to stress which I think is the "safety net". You are worried that if you cannot progress you will end up without a proper qualifcation if you take acca alone or you fear the stress level if take both ext and int.

In ACCA they recognize this problem by offering OBU degree student for those who has completed all funadamental levels (F4 to F9 in particular). You can finish that degree in 1 month or 2 in average. Grade will based on your average mark in acca plus project quality.

If I am not mistaken most of those that did advance diploma are offered a degree course for 3 mths in Uk or something ??? I am not sure but that is roughly what I heard in my friends discussion & you can take up that degree before attempting acca.

KSA environment is packed like sardin so its not that conducive but they do possessed some quality lecturers which requires no backing or support from large institutions.

About your capability to cope I cannot really judge unless you try out yourself. ACCA exams & style is very different from diploma from what most TAR students & friends told me. Hardwork alone may not be sufficient.

This post has been edited by Topace111: May 1 2009, 04:16 PM

You are considered lucky last sitting he set the class at 1st may immediately the day after his class ends. Recycled the same IT area. My group of friends & I just skip that class after we fall asleep for 5th time during the class. (quite lazy & tired that time)

I cannot really choose since i have never been on that position before.
But from what I discussed with TAR students most of them take acca after their advance diploma & they did regret over the wastage of time period.
The other portion that have the 3 mth Uk degree can start working with Big 4 even if they cannot progress in acca as they already have degree.

Okay diploma / degree / master / PHD programme courses & exam are assessed based on where you take it. So the lecturer who teach you will be the one who examine you. ACCA is a prof qualification that you are examined with the same paper like everyone else in the world did.
So you can have one accounting degree holder from oversea debating who is better with a local degree holder since both hold same degree but from different place. But ACCA settles that dispute by everyone taking one universal exam. So the lecturer can only guide you but cannot really determine what will come out especially in advance stage.

One good thing about acca is that the rule is quite simple : pass is 50 marks & do all the questions within 3 hour for one paper. But its purposefully designed that way to test your time management. For example in my lower level finance F9 the same answer whcih requires 30 minutes needs to be finished in my advance level in 10 minutes. So the gap between professional & fundamental is quite huge not like degree & diploma.

If you want to know difficulty level (in advance stage) I have many degree holders some from foreign country are also struggling to cope with the syllabus. However some amy find it easy like a friend of mine who failed most of his calculational paper but pass all his theory paper.

One thing I can tell you is that most of the student in KL are quite "not so hardworking" as they are given a lot of freedom & flexibility to study (there is no homework at all) so those who study hard & smart will normally get through. ACCA may not be as that difficult as most people claimed, if you had try your best you will feel its manageable. If you give enough dedication & commitment ACCA should not be that difficult.

If financial limitation applies then don't go to those fancy uni / college just for the sake of it.
If you choose lecturers prudently in Kl it should not be that expensive.
From CAT to finish ACCA tution fees + exam fees for UK I have calculated its around RM 20000 - RM 25000 if you TAKE in KL.
You can pay in installment in most college & don't have to pay lump sum.

There is another alternative but its very hard to get these kind of oppurnities.
First you enter a big firm to work (eg Big 4 like PWC). First you really need to impress these firm that you are loyal & competent......
If you are lucky they will allow you to work there if they are impressed with you. (Ask for low salary & low post first)
Then they may bond you & you get salary & free ACCA course.
I know several friends that followed this route but you need to work 4 times harder than everyone else. Don't worry about failing as big comps can tolerate as long as you have penetrated the work line.

Yeah MYS do produce a lot of accountants thats why Govt only wants 60,000 compared to 200,000 engineers.
If you want to supply vs demand equation yeah the ratio seems to bode ill for the profession.
But how do you really define an accountant ?
Do auditor , tax personnel, financier or funds contoller included into equation ? Lets say it does
Is anyone an accountant ? a diploma holder can also become accountant (exec, assistant, officer,......etc).
Will everyone remain an accountant ? is promotion or career advancement theory does not exist ? I am sure most of the managers / directors / bosses in biz, economic or financial sector has their foundations based in accounting.
Is versatility or diversification a thing of the past ? Well Tony Fernandes don't think so.

If everyone thinks like you, heck I will have a very good future to look forward too.
If you want supply demand equation on employment oppurnities look no further than Biz graduate & engineers graduate which constantly shifts around top 5 most unemployed graduates in MYS.

I dont think PTPn will offer loan for professional qualification programme on the assumption that you already have a qualifaction which is sufficient enough to find work before pursuing it. I think sunway offered scholarship but SPM results must be good lo.

Since your main worries is 2 fold : the safety net & financial limitation I think you should stick with TARC programme. If i am not mistaken there is another alternative in tar programme is that you can get advance diploma in 2.5 yr but without taking acca ?

ACCA is already more qualified than degree to become recognised.
ACCA gets you the title chartered accountant from UK while the MIA in MYS is the recognition from MYS. Of course you can also apply for MIA from acca. Having degree alone will only gets you recognition from MIA if you take their exams but ACCA holder can get recognition from MIA & ACCA.

Well if I am a straight scorer too & I understand your predicament about this.
In secondary school, TARC & Sunway the teachers / lecturers will truly grind you to perform by giving a lot of homeworks & drills on exams. You have to study for rougly 6 hours everyday right to maintain at such consistency at this level right ?

At KL its a whole different story. First thing first some general facts :
1) No homework at all will be given.
2) Class is roughly 3 hours per week for 4 months + 1 month for revision = then exam.
3) Nobody will bothered if you skip classes.
The rule is pretty simple : 100% freedom & flexibility & if you are willing to work for it then the result is yours for the taking. But its not that easy to maintain such discipline for the entire course as some of my classmates has learned it the hard way.

Actually I don't think your confusion or indecision lies on whether to take internally at TARC or take externally at KSA but you just need confirmation that you are pursuing the best course of action currently & I think you should stick with your scholarship. A drastic decision will be best avoided unless you are 100% sure that you won't regret about it. I have a similar student asking me with the same question and in the end she just choose to continue taking internally.

Em just to let you know that there other college like KB that offered cheaper rates than KSA but only restricted to 1 or 2 lecturer. KSA also have some "bad apples" but just becareful when selecting lecturer.

External scholarship is quite rare unless you are being bonded. Reasoning is because the fees is quite minimal & its nature of exam based makes it quite subjective since student can choose how many papers to take each sitting & the variance & type of paper.

READ ALL THE ARTICLES published by examiner especially for advance papers. 99% they will test something that they published directly or indirectly. I think I mentioned that in last sitting about cultural web in P3 & it came out as 20 mark question after that.

For lecturer tips though majority from what i have discussed with friends is that most lecturer told student to avoid the tested topics for previous 2 sittings except for papers like reporting (P2). I never rely on lecturer tips since its like following speculation in shares market. Even if you passed that was just bcos of luck. Of all the papers never rely on tips especially for audit paper. I have known many people that have not cleared audit until several sittings later bcos of following lecturers tips blindly. Just take precaution

CIMA is a bit tougher than acca & graduate of cima is called management accountant while acca is like financial accountant.
CIMA exposure is lesser than acca since its quite specific & industry driven. CIMA scope is mostly tailored for manufacturing sector.
So if you are applying for those manufacturers CIMA has small precedence than acca in some way or another.
But lack of tuition provider & exposure by CIMA making it less popular in asia.

Then take separately lo.
Its best not to divert your minds into 2 things at once.

If you have exceptional memory or you have revised his stuff rigorously the RI class is basicly 99% the same like normal class only faster & more summarised. Its meant more for those whom never attend his class or just to revise key areas for exam.
He will be doing past year questions in RE while giving the framework on how to write & technics.

I think don't need revision at all as P3 is all about application. My sitting have something to do with a museum & a company very similar to mines wonderland. So general knowledge is equally important too.

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Added on May 11, 2009, 12:30 amI have some rather interesting opinion to share.
P1 is a new area of acca & examiner really like to test a lot of P1 stuff namely CG, Int aud & IC, Ethics & Environment.
So most lecturer & student is in the view that they guarantee to release a 50 mark question of CG since CG covers > 50% of the syllabus.
In theory it should be a fine assumption but in reality its quite funny.

For 2 consecutive sitting P1 touches mostly on ethics & environment which covers only rather 25% of syllabus. Students complained where is CG ?
The funny thing is that they test P1 stuff on P2, P3 & P4 on that sitting. I think other examiner assumes student has taken / taking P1.
P2 : ethical issue on creative accounting.
P3 : performance related pay
P4 : something on ethics

I think P1 requires student to know everything so they can apply on other papers as well. So if you take all core papers at 1 go its really beneficial.
F8 students taking P1 also can benefit in certain area.

My suggestion is ALL ARE KEY AREA unless you are taking P1 only.

This post has been edited by Topace111: May 11 2009, 12:30 AM

i) Coverage
In P3 key area to memorise is quite small & most of it was restricted to section B (some is IT area). Section A is almost wholly application of knowledge. So in his class he will try to teach all areas of section B (thats why his RI will start from section B first). For section A he will mostly lecture on models, frameworks & authors of P3. His style is to apply several models to a question & this method works for those whom are weak in elaborating in depth since those models can yield many key pointers which will elude students if they only apply their knowledge.
Past year question will only be conducted in RE class not RI.

ii) Approaching question
To me he is quite a brilliant lecturer with lots of experience but he lacks a key criteria which is systematic. The problem is that he likes to overlap between different models. For acquisition he will use johnson & scholes then he applied Dunning then with another author. I don't think many students can refer to several different pages of notes for reference but for those who can it should be no problem.
He LIKES & WILL always use acronyms for memorisation of model. He is brilliant is applying keyword but to such an extent it becomes annoying since he appied acronyms to all models so my advice is just stick with the key words.

iii) RE class
I have not attend but I still did quite well for exam. I think technic is not that important in P3 but time management. Most people cannot finish or did not write enough to elaborate. If i am not mistaken he will always ask his students to start section B & finish within 1 hour 15 minutes & spent the remaining time on analysing section A.

iv) ???
This completely depends on yourself but I do admit parmindar style is more student friendly & it facilitate easier translation of students answer to marker's comprehension. The examiner answer is quite hard to digest I think.

For F5 its average ratio of calculation & theory is around 50 : 50. If it was me I will choose a lecturer with balanced approach on both area.
Chin Ann is considered the very few lecturers that can teach the theory part to students in balance proportion with calculational tools as well.
Since many students that are struggling in F5 bcos of theory problems I will suggest Chin Ann but unless you are already well equiped with strong theoretical arsenal then you can pick up a skill or two in Andrew class. Andrew is a very experienced but less dedicated lecturer compared to Chin Ann.

If somebody pinpointed that andrew doesnt like to write in class than Chin Ann is the exact opposite. He likes to write so much he even write out everything, sometimes the answer is even longer than examiner's answer.

1) Take degree & acca simultaneously
Its extremely difficult to study both different subjects together no matter how good that person are. Its not like STPM where you taking 2 different subjects its a whole new different league if you compared to taking a degree with professional qualification. Even with degree holder knowledge they still struggle with acca. Let me clarify something first.
ACCA is a post-graduate programme & its widely known its tougher than degree.
ACCA is a professional exam where examiners & markers are totally independent & your fees does not pressure them to pass you like most local college does.
The fact that you have never taken accounting before has already indicated its not suitable to venture into a deep pool without proper support.

2) School vs self study
Most will eventually find a school to study since its pretty difficult to study alone without any proper focus, guidance & scope.
Self study is meant more for those that already owned a degree or have considerable experience on this field.

3) Advantageous vs synergy
There are bound to be benefits if you hold 2 different qualifications. If you hold knowledge in 2 different field it will be very advantageous in some way or another but the key issue lies with synergy. I don't see any significant synergy in combining accounting & economics. If you are opening up a biz then you need some business expertise & accounting foundation. If you are an engineer / doctor planning to open up a firm then taking up MBA or accounting its also beneficial. I'm sorry if it dues to my ignorance but I don't really see any point in taking 2 together.
If you want to choose, you should only choose the ONE THAT YOU WANT.

4) Experience
If you obtained acca you need to work for 3 years to gain the recognition status as "Chartered accountant" from UK & you can also apply the local one called MIA. Obtaining local degree only can apply for MIA. If you have high IQ & EQ + you are performing quite well in acca (less failure & consistent rate) then there should be no reason for Big4 to reject your application (unless you are being greedy with salary & post)

5) Place of exam
Its same wherever you take your acca since all people around the world are taking the same exam paper. Thats why the graduate gained better recognition than degree holder bcos degree quality is based on where you obtained it (some place have quota, domestic bias, money policy...etc).
The principle is something like this : You can take wherever you want & you can work wherever you want once you obtained it.

6) Offer
If you are being offered something you don't want don't take it or you will regret it for the rest of your life. If you have a clear objective then pursue it straightaway without further ado. I take it you are beign offered to do economics in public Uni.

Let me introduce you of some basic principle in education :
Easy to get in, easy to get out : Mostly private college that charge premium fees for their course. (mostly are non-profession)
Hard to get in, easy to get out : Mostly public uni that offered profession courses.
Easy to get in, hard to get out : Professional qualifications based in UK : they want foreign student income you see.
Hard to get in, hard to get out : Professional qualification based in US : they want to bar foreign student as they already have too much influx.

Firms like Big4 needs Skilled but low paid workers so they constantly needs influx of fresh graduates. If your PR skill is good then you can definitely enter into big4. Although the name should sound glamourous but I should warn you about something :
1) Working hours is extremely long in MYS big 4 : We don't have strong workers union that protects workers right in MYS & working from 9 am to 1 am is not unheard of especially in peak period.
2) pay is always low for graduates that doesn't have title / experience.
3) High dropout rate / labour turnover : very few can survive under harsh situation which is why they are quite strict in interview to filter those that are not well equipped for such culture. However they do need a lot of good graduates.

If financial limitation doesn't apply to you / parents pressure to enter public Uni doesnt arise then its good to pursue acca straightaway.
But seriously I don't think anyone should pursue acca straightaway if you have option to do degree. The reason many can join acca even most are recommended to do so after degree its bcos acca set a very low requirement for admission. Therefore the gap of intelligence between students are quite large notwithstanding the amount of effort is different depending where you actually take them.

Personally I don't think you should quit your degree after all the efforts you put in STPM. If you have degree later on you will be exempted for certain papers in ACCA & only take around 1 to 1.5 years to complete instead of 3. Then you will come out with double qualification.
That is assuming you have time to spare & to wait.

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Added on May 16, 2009, 10:17 amThe advantage will exist if you decide to work in the country that you are currently studying. My assumptions is based on MYS first. There is only 2 paper that applies 2 different variant in acca which is law & tax. Apart from that some papers like finance & reporting applies different stream.

If you definitely want to work in MYS but studying in UK this point really confuse me a little bit. First of all the tax & law system is different. Then the culture of study there is also quite different. Instead of taking 2-3 papers per sitting in MYS , their culture is taking 4 paper per year not per sitting. Thats why western graduates later than most asian one as they put a lot of learning into their studies not just merely passing the paper.

Unless you have relatives living there I don't think the cost of education, living & accomodation will suit most normal students.

This post has been edited by Topace111: May 16 2009, 10:17 AM