If you go to Michael or Parmindar class I am sure you have too much too read till you bleed. (not literally)
Both lecturers like to quote real life case scenario like paying RM 1m as deposit to get Mcd franchise , HP R&D exp p.a,....etc.
So dont worry about lack of materials to read in P3 compared to P1 as P1 is still a new paper.
P3 also required some IT knowledge as examiner is also ex IT lecturer.

I think most student over rely on their lecturers to the extent of putting all their hopes & expectations solely on the lecturers performance in class.
If the student failed s(he) will immediately blame the lecturer for incompetence since s(he) had put 100% effort on it. If the student passed the exam, half of the success will be attributable to themselves & the rest of it depend on their ego on whether to attribute it to their lecturer.
Voluntary learning will always exceed obligatory learning.
Just an advice here, never follow friends when comes to choosing college or lecturers as you will regret it one day (or not). Choose based on what you need & want. You can make new friends in the process.
I met many humble & friendly lecturers like haneef, Parmindar, Chin Ann & Daniel (each representing 1 college to be fair) but do not expect them to come to you though as student will always need to make the first move.

I hope you are not a promoter of KSA here

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Added on June 29, 2009, 10:45 pmPlease becareful of your language as there is no perfect lecturer around only imperfect students.


This post has been edited by Topace111: Jun 29 2009, 10:45 PM

The list is not up to date as Jan 09.
Wong Siew Choo at PAAC. Another alternative is Michael Mainwaring at MCo.

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Added on June 30, 2009, 11:57 amI dont condone any college promotions & lecturers harsh judgements UNLESS you have a very good argument of WHY.
From what I had read you have not mentioned a single description of his negative traits in class lecture apart from his so called "arrogance".
If you want more "bite" in your argument you should elaborate more in your descriptions about him.
If you want to try "Lim Kit siang" bring out facts rather than personal opinion first.
I am also a Daniel student but please be fair to all.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jun 30 2009, 11:57 AM

If cost is really the main factor for you, I think you should evaluate based on cost vs benefit analysis on all lecturers. In that way you can easily see who is the best. If transportation & location is not a major issue I will seriously recommend Parmindar at KSA. He monopolised all the P3 student market.
If cost is not an issue I would say Michael is the best. I rarely recommend like that unless I am very sure of it. He has a good track record in England & you dont have many quality lecturers over there coming to MYS. Phillip Woo is quite good but he has not teached biz for quite some while so its a 50 : 50 situation.
All the 3 lecturers I have mentioned have incredible source of practical knowledge & experience that students that can tap into. If any of you have never attend their classes before you will easily distinguish why they are so highly sought after. Simply put they are like Michael Jackson in pop genre. Since you want a good return for every penny you earned, you wont regret with such selection.

Oops wording error
Some friends told me he ran biz class in MYS last time but not P3 in MYS. Maybe dont want to conflict with Parmindar or something. So his forte area is actually audit or biz ?
Anyway I had some student asking me to continue their studies in Singapore but lack the local knowledge there & i only known some in FTMS there.
Which college did Phillip taught at Singapore.

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Added on July 1, 2009, 1:39 amMy advice is always stick with balanced combo namely theory & calculation.
F4 is 100% theory & F7 is 75% calculation + 25% theory so its quite balanced compared to finance which is around 60% calculation.
You dont need F7 knowledge at all for F9 & very slightly for audit but its almost negligible.
F4 is purely memory work & F7 requires constant practice to build up speed & familiarity.

But I think taking finance will be better instead of reporting bcos :
- audit is quite difficult & coupled with finance it will be worse.
- since you will be taking core papers (especially P2) you need good grasp & still familiar with F7 areas to pass through smoothly.
- then you can use some of your area learned in F8 to be used in P1 as well. (so you can utilise F7 & F8 knowledge for P1 & P2).

Taking F4 & F8 is stricly non advisable since its quite unorthodox fo a student to choose 2 purely theory paper in a single seating (I have endured all 3 core paper & its a very stressful journey).

Just dont bring out another combo of not taking F4.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jul 1 2009, 01:39 AM

If you have been impressed with parmindar examples at IRC I think you will be more amazed at his normal class. Since I had computerised my notes into my computer I can just bring it out here for preview :
Acquisition by Johnson & Scholes (partially) :
1) Reduces Competitive retaliation (rivals) = Oracle acquire Peoplesoft to cut down competition on ERP
2) Lack of resource / competence to develop strategy internally = IBM acquire Lotus (Lotus 123 spreadsheet & Notes)
3) Gives speedy entrance to new mkt / products = Pfizer acquire Warner Lambert : Lipitor (reduces LDL cholesterol)
But you must be hardworking at class to jolt down such examples & since he normally bring it out as he lectures (from memory).

Michael is almost similar but gives lesser examples (not because he dont know) but he practice the western method of key concepts rather than examples.

Ok first of all P7 is definitely harder than F8.
F8 only requires student to react based on question asked. No practical knowledge is required & student only needs to familiarise with normal flows of systems & procedures like sales & purchase system.
P7 is quite different as it requires student with good grasp on P2 & have working experience b4 as in audit / assurance line. If you have sat for P3 you will understand what I mean by "biz knowledge".
Syllabus of P7 & F8 is quite similar with only minimal add-onn but the main difference is the way to answer in exam. Imagine CAT T7 with ACCA F5.
Normally people avoid taking audit in optional unless they are being bonded by an assurance firm or they just simply like audit.

The answer is you dont have to sit for papers exempted.
However exemption doesnt actually mean you have passed or gained knowledge from those respective papers.
The simple analogy is if you are exempted from NS it doesnt mean you have all the prerequisite knowledge of defending the country.

During my last sitting tax class I had known some sunway students taking under chin ann & a brief stint at CKF class. If you are only taking 2 optional paper for that sitting its quite ok but everyone knows what happened at sunway after that. Since tax syllabus is quite wide & practice a lot of assumptions most lecturer have differing views. Tax has the most contradicting views on syllabus content & the examiner has to notify in articles constantly. Thats why you can have multiple solutions to an answer.

Since this is Sheila first P7 class I am not sure what to expect.

First of all the philosophy of both centre is vastly different from one another.
Centres like KSA & Mco operates like the Uk system where they practice the "adult learning" instead of student learning.
There wont be any homework & even if there are, no one will bother if you dont finish it.
The lecturers will treat you like an adult where you can sms, sleep, eat or drink, or do anything you wish as long as you dont bother anyone in class. To put it simply only disciplined students or adults can flourished under such system since there is no one to regulate / control how you learn in class.
How you study depends 100% on you.
This system is very similar to UK training system.

Sunway is quite the opposite.
You can define them as a centre that specialises to drill students to perfection through sheer hardwork & practice.
They will analyse everything for you & give countless drills, mocks, trials, homework or practice to minimize the possiblity of failure & increase the chance of success in the process. I think ms Menon is perfect example of such system where students normally have 12 hours class every week.
If you are the type of agrresive student with no-nonsense attitude I think sunway will be suitable to hone your "enthusiasm" on it.
Imagine those chinese schools that constantly give extra tuition to students (a sunway friend told me this analogy since he doesnt like the hectic environment)

Something I have learned during my course of acca is never judged the lecturer by its cover or the biodata especially when It was written by the college itself not the consumers (student). When college write biodata for their own lecturers there are bound to be exxageration & problem with conflict of interest. Have you ever seen any college criticize their own lecturer ?

Example :
Let say they quote this lecturer is much sought after & very popular & his students have won prize winners b4. Ok let say it "did" occur but how many years ago. Every college there bound to be such lecturers whom has "super" biodata but are they still have that "enthusiasm" to teach anymore. There is one at FTMS for CAT level that has a super bio but asked any of his ex-student (which i did) none of them are very fond of him.
There is one or two at KSA as well. When a lecturer has taught for so many years, do you think he is not bored by teaching the same stuff over & over again. Look at Micahel Schumacher, Michael jordan & Lance Armstrong.

The best way to determine a lecturer is to simplify based on a model of "can" & "will". The % is a rough estimation of market figure.
1) Can teach & will teach (20%)
This lecturer had the quality & the necessary patience to lecture. I ranked Parmindar, Haneef & Daniel Ho as the very best of their own class.

2) Cannot teach but will teach (60%)
They have the dedication & willingness to ride through with student but when comes to necessary quality they still lack bcos they lacked the experience to cover for it. Best example by looking at Wimbledon semifinal between Safina (world no 1) vs Venus (3 or 4) & the score is the most one sided in 40 year history. Joey wong belonged to this group since I have attended his class b4. Nobody will fault him in terms of effort but in terms of the extra edge he is just not there yet. I have lunch with him with several friends b4 & his forte is IT like Parmindar.

3) Can teach but not willing to teach (20%)
They "used" to be great but no longer had major enthusiasm to teach. They will still teach but you have seen the "fire" had died on their eyes teaching has just been a routine for them. Most of these lecturers consist of repetitive subjects like tax (Siva & Alan is best example since "almost" everyone claimed they are boring"). Andrew is 50% there since he had to handle KSA biz as well. Phillip Woo is some rare exception that manage to still be exciting & passionate about teaching.

4) Cannot teach & unwilling to teach (0%)
If such lecturer exist I dont think anybody will attend their class dont they ? Mostly they act as substitute lecturer or as temporary measure.

Unless students have experienced Group 1 lecturer b4, they will never know what is all the fuss about lecturer selection. Take Michael Jackson analogy as an example. Anyone who has been through his era will worship him but the likes of us (generation Z or late generation Y) will find "The King of Pop" death as nothing significant. Try asking those from generation X.

My analogy is just part of a million ways to analyse a lecturer.
No of students doesnt actually reflect anything concrete since its easily distorted.
Mcdonalds franchise flourish at USA but close down only 3 months in france & italy.
Footballs draws millions of crowds in Europe but only hundreds in US.
Everybody buys Japanese cars, are they the best of the class ? No, its Italian made cars (Ferrari, Lambourghini & Maserati).
Everybody buys Norton Antivirus but anyone knows Bitdefender & Kasperky are the better version.
Do you judged a restaurant quality by the number of its crowd / customer ? Imagine a hawker street & Japanese high class restaurant.

In sunway most students tend to take up all their papers there unlike in Kl students tend to diversify based on lecturers.
I can use KLCC analogy if you wish
Everybody visits KLCC & when they are hungry or tired they will end up doing all their activities there which includes shopping, eating, watching movies....etc. However if given a choice they rather shop at Petaling Street (if poor) or Starhill (if rich) & eat at Jalan Alor (if poor) or Bukit Bintang (if rich). So for convenience sake many end up taking whatever lecturer is available that sunway can offer.

The term willingness to teach is more relevant to the term of "innovative" (i just simplify it for easier translation). Innovative lecturers always update their knowledge & change accordingly when exam trend changes. They are willing to fork out their own investment to update their own knowledge & then transfer it to students (Viknes & Parmindar is very good example of these). They teach bcos they want to teach not need to teach. Those want to teach will teach irregardless of how much they made. Money is secondary issue & they normally go beyond their duty to deliver.

In recent weeks I have received considerable PM from sunway students wishing to switch to KL & wish to know the experience & almost all of them did it bcos of F8 audit. I do not wish to disclose details why they leave but I think you can find out on your own.

It doesnt matter where you study as long as that place is suitable for you.
None of my friend likes the travel too, I had some friends from Melaka that travels 2 hour journey back & forth just to make for the 2 day optional class at KL. If class at 10.00 am then have to wake up at 5.00am & start travelling from there. Transport is a problem but not the problem.

There are some good students whom are oblivious to lecturers requirement & can study on their own. However only when failures arise students will start to look for solutions & alternatives. Nobody bothered about Mortgage backed securities until crisis stuck, the english resort to hiring an italian coach dues to desperation of winning,....etc.

I think the lecturers selection will be more relevant with the analogy of "computers". Most people will just bought the whole set of computers from renown company like HP, Dell, Acer & Lenovo. However IT geeks or experts can buy each of the components like motherboards, graphic cards, cooling fan, processors,....etc separately from the best of the class like Asus, Leadtek & Palit. So like lecturers selection it will be highly unorthodox for students to choose lecturers unless they are exposed to such cultures. Those who have been to national schools will not be too keen on such novelty but those who have been attending regular tuitions may be open to such ideas. In the end it depends on how you want to approach it.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jul 5 2009, 12:21 PM

What you learn in SPM level only serves as an introduction to the introduction chapter of the entire acca syllabus. ACCA like other professional papers is not consist of all accounting papers like all used to perceive. I will break it down for explanation purpose :
part 1 : F1 to F3 (3 papers) = only 1 paper is accounting in nature while the other 2 is costing & finance.
part 2 : F4 to F6 (6 papers) = only 1 accounting paper while others include law, costing, tax, audit & finance.
part 3 : P1 to P3 (core) & P4 to P7 (optional) [5 papers] = only 1 accounting paper while others is all about analysis & extension of fundamentals.
Anyone can do ACCA but it depends whether you can adapt to its style or not. I would not say that getting an A will not help but its many years ago & you cannot use past results to forecast futures.

1) Exemptions
I take it your degree will exempt that 4 papers so if you do pursue acca you only have to sit for those papers not exempted (10 papers) which should be completed within 2 years. ACCA is a UK paper which is slighltly less strict in terms of quality requirement unless its American counterpart of CFA & CPA. Since acca has signed many global & mutual agreements with many countries & bodies its easy to brach out to other qualifications as well. As a result most degree holders can get exemption which includes you. Total of exemption depends on university reputation & degree's relevance. Maximum exemption is 9 papers for any degree hold.

2) Right to use exemption
My advice is to use it straightaway. Since you have been taking elective course (although I am not sure about its coverage) but you should enjoy what acca offers you. However based on my survey with other degree holders in my classes most felt that the papers exempted is actually tougher than those they have seated at their university. F1 to F3 is quite shallow in syllabus compared with F4 to F9 (whole different level) so it doesnt matter if you dont sat for any of those. F9 is finance & unless you want to progress to take optional at P4 then just attend the class without taking exam.

3) ACCA in work progression
Accounting serves as pillar in most system that supports other profession like business, economics, finance & management. Accounting serves as a compliance profession compared to others I just mentioned. Compliance profession means it is complusory for a company to performed such operations whether they like or not :
Reporting requirement : Public listed companies must present their financial statements to public (accountants)
Audit requirement : External auditors need to give opinion on the finanical statements before they are published (auditors)
Tax : Every company needs to pay tax to govt.
The last 2 profession is mostly external & through outsourcing (Big 4 firms)
Accounting serves as pillar, foundation, groundwork, blueprint for any organizations. It serves as a platform for many to push up the hierarchy. Thats why you will see majority of bosses, directors, managers, CFO & CEO have their doundation & origins based on accounting. However when they are promoted to higher echelons of power most will pursue other courses like MBA, finance or marketing to enhance their skills in management forte. With accounting you will be exposed to many areas of the organizations you can handle & react accordingly.
This is what a finance manager told me from public listed company.

4) Multi skilled vs specialisation.
Nowadays both have its relevance depends on how you perceive current economic climate. Multi-skilled employees are very versatile & can survive most economic meltdowns & they will be the last employees to receive redundancy package since they are in charge of the core of the organization.
Speciallist tends to stick within their own field & they will flourished if times are good. However if times are bad they will have little room to maneouvre & stuck there. With finance alone its quite difficult since most people wish to become managers or directors & with finance alone you will only handle a fractional part compared to those with accounting & finance whom are more equipped to deal with more areas compared to the former.
I have a relative who is working in HSBC in treasury dept is also contemplating to take up CFA (specialisation) or ACCA (multi skilled) with his finance degree from singapore.

5) CFA
If you want to progress far in financial areas which include working in investment banks which may yield the highest bonuses in all industries, then CFA will be recommended. Entry requirement is a degree holder. Most that wish to pursue investment banking they will definitely venture into CFA. But CFA is definitely harder than ACCA which is also quite difficult.

Intelligence is not the ultimate measure to determine one's progress in any field. ACCA offers the lowest requirement in any professional qualification & anyone can enter provided you are willing to work hard for it.

This is one of the most detailed explanation I get from a sunway student & I also wished to share some expression here.
First paragraph :
I held from a premier school that produce hundred of straight A's for SPM & I know exactly what you mean by the constant drilling & practice. Scoring straight A's in all my public exam, I was raised in an environment which hardwork & commitment are the ultimate characteristics.
However after a stint at KL acca centres I realised their environment while its not perfect but it serves a good foundation for those wish to study on their own perseverance. This gives them time to practice self discipline & independence which is exactly expected from companies the moment graduates start to work. I like the philosophy of voluntary learning since its the exact nature of how "working environment" operates these days.

2nd para :
This is the only area I could not agree more. ACCA is a very lonely life & unless you are with right friends, possiblity of remaining together is very slim. In my CAT batch of > 50 only 1 or 2 students are there with me. 90% of my friends all all different college are few years older than me. It is difficult to make friends in KL with "asian attitude" of waiting to be called first. So i went to "Western mode" something I picked up from my church activities skills which most of time I take the first initiative to greet them first. Surprisingly its very easy after that even they are older than me. Thats how I picked up some friends whom are working in PWC, EY, KPMG & BDO.
However I will debate on place of attractions. If you want high class areas Bukit Bintang is just 2 or 3 LRT stations away & there is plenty of economic & tasty foods at Petaling Street & Jalan Alor. Where do you find all those Japanese buffets that I always ventured with my friends in sunway ? You have Pavillion, Times Square & KLCC for movies compared to Sunway all within 10 minutes travel.

3rd para :
Everyone knows how criticial I am to KSA so enough on that area for now.

4rd para :
I have always preach on over reliance on lecturers for study materials.
I have seen some students that over rely on their lecturers to such an extent they believe 100% in lecturer spot areas.
I am borned a rebel & I always go disagree with the lecturer view on many things. As a result when I prepare my own notes, I prepare them in my own language to suit my own style. Just to make it more interesting & easier to read I computerised my notes into diagrams & charts. I have shown these to Haneef, Chin Ann, Parmindar & Daniel Ho & they are very supportive of me doing this. When I mentioned to them at the end of the class that I will not take their spots too seriously all of them encouraged me to do so.

In terms of lecturers, you need to seek the best to learn from the best. However you should also show some dedication & hardwork as well.
There is no point wielding the best gun in the world without the ammunitions & magazines to support it.

In ACCA point of view its aceeptable as long as both exam dates doesnt clash.
For sunway part you have to ask others.

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Added on July 6, 2009, 11:18 pmYes you can.
Rule only applies to optional papers & exam dates clashes.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jul 6 2009, 11:18 PM

I think most people here misunderstood about the term of "recommended lecturers" since I seen most confused about "over reliance on lecturer".
Recommendation serves as a general acceptance / agreement by most of the students that the lecturer mentioned is credible & capable to lecture.
It takes something special to be recommended as each of those lecturers mentioned has a competitive advantage on their own.
If students have approached audit (F8) b4 I think these problem will never occured.

I think most that studied audit b4 are familiar with the term of qualified / unqualified opinion right ?
When people mentioned to me that I am not clever but that doesnt mean I am stupid right ?
When a lecturer is "not recommended" it means the lecturer does not possess a strong bargaining power to be recommended.
If everyone have their say then all lecturers are recommended, isn't it ?

However recommendation comes from the majority of the group & there is bound to be some minority that object to such novelty.
Recommendation only acts as a guidance / helping hand not as an absolute measure. Its just universal acceptance.
Regarding lecturers over reliance & spoon feeding, I think by quoting Confucius famous saying will suffice to illustrate :
"Give him a fish you will feed him for a day, Teach him how to fish you will feed him for a life time".

I think you should be grateful of small class size.
After what I had experienced in Parmindar class, big class has been overrated.

Since ACCA course is relatively cheap & economic compared to other degrees & even professional qualifications, few students expect scholarships to be given.
However scholarship does exist but in a very different format compared to normal degrees :
1) Performance based : Some notable tuition providers will provide scholarship to students to tied down with the centre. Requirement is for student to score good results in ACCA first (any precendent courses is ignored like diploma or degree since past result is irrelevant to in acca).

2) Work based : Some large organizations like Big 4 offered "bonds" by giving financial assistance but you need to work for the organization first.

I dont think everyone can secure anything for free in this world via scholarship & grant.