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Health Myth about reverse omosis, Forget what others have said

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TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:33 AM, updated 17y ago

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What other people told you is a myth created by salesman. tongue.gif

R.O is the only way to filter drugs contamination. rclxms.gif

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http://www.squidoo.com/reverse-osmosis-water-truth-safe
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 10:48 AM

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What if I told you that I used to managed a high-purity water treatment system for a semiconductor company for about 4 years in a location where there's no proper technical expertise readily available?

The way you're typing out the entire post is so dramatic which is unnecessary. And not completely correct either. Are you out to scare people out of RO water?

Meh, busy at work. Maybe when I have free time tonite or during lunch hour. This is going to be an extremely long post.
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Mar 24 2009, 10:48 AM)
What if I told you that I used to managed a high-purity water treatment system for a semiconductor company for about 4 years in a location where there's no proper technical expertise readily available?

The way you're typing out the entire post is so dramatic which is unnecessary. And not completely correct either. Are you out to scare people out of RO water?

Meh, busy at work. Maybe when I have free time tonite or during lunch hour. This is going to be an extremely long post.
*
Hahah i didn't type out all lor. I only copy and paste from the source.

Uhh so, when u manage a high purity water treatment for semicon then? lol didn't countinue geh? Which point wasn't correct ya. hhehe just exchanging idea for the benefit of all.

Hahah just trying to create awareness. hahah, too many people say ro water no minerals so i mai create awareness lor. So people will more understand it more.

Singapore new water is also ro water system. hahah. if ro water really that bad, all singaporean should become weak de. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by NINJIAO: Mar 24 2009, 10:55 AM
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:19 AM

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Haiya, even copy and paste, you could have selected a more neutral article. The guy is partially right but mostly wrong interpretation. He doesn't have the water industry knowledge that I do. tongue.gif

I didn't continue because I changed jobs but still in the same company. Went to special projects and now to Environmental, Health and Safety. So some of the health and safety stuff, I know because it's part of the job. The technical aspect is because I took up Chemical Engineering for studies.

NEWater is definitely interesting. smile.gif I know one of the researcher in Singapore who was developing it. Nice chap. smile.gif
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Mar 24 2009, 11:19 AM)
Haiya, even copy and paste, you could have selected a more neutral article. The guy is partially right but mostly wrong interpretation. He doesn't have the water industry knowledge that I do. tongue.gif

I didn't continue because I changed jobs but still in the same company. Went to special projects and now to Environmental, Health and Safety. So some of the health and safety stuff, I know because it's part of the job. The technical aspect is because I took up Chemical Engineering for studies.

NEWater is definitely interesting. smile.gif I know one of the researcher in Singapore who was developing it. Nice chap. smile.gif
*
Hehehe tell me more about the wrong interpretation. Me oso wan to learn more. tongue.gif
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 12:33 PM

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hype up ... water is jus another commodities tat being badly twisted.. water processor always hype their water .. saying this and tat.. at the end of the day is jus H2o.. y so fuzz.. i not saying tap water is clean.. but i believe water should not be a commodities.. y a swiss tap water is sold at rm6.5 per litre when normal drinking water is rm1? why the blue gold tat v drink is more expensive than tat of black gold-->fuel .. is jus a hype up thing.. water is safe to drink if v hav a proper active carbon filter , uv filter and some boiling... done.. RO water .. alkaline water .. mineral water, mountain water .. spring water .. all jus hype up water to push the value of this blue gold sky high..

This post has been edited by xavi5567: Mar 24 2009, 12:35 PM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 12:33 PM)
hype up ... water is jus another commodities tat being badly twisted.. water processor always hype their water .. saying this and tat.. at the end of the day is jus H2o.. y so fuzz.. i not saying tap water is clean.. but i believe water should not be a commodities.. y a swiss tap water is sold at rm6.5 per litre when normal drinking water is rm1? why the blue gold tat v drink is more expensive than tat of black gold-->fuel .. is jus a hype up thing.. water is safe to drink if v hav a proper active carbon filter , uv filter and some boiling... done.. RO water .. alkaline water .. mineral water, mountain water .. spring water .. all jus hype up water to push the value of this blue gold sky high..
*
Cabon filter can only filter up to 0.1 or some 0.001 micron particles. RO filteration is 0.0001. Newest contamination is drug contamination that is being flush and water is recycled. Drugs content is still in the water we drink if not being filtered by ro process.

We are now expose to a lot unknown contamination, not like our grand parents days where rain water is safe to be used.


alanyuppie
post Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 24 2009, 03:18 PM)
We are now expose to a lot unknown contamination, not like our grand parents days where rain water is safe to be used.
*
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".



Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).

It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.

This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Mar 24 2009, 02:30 PM
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 07:48 PM

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great comment by alanyuppie, wat he said is very true....water and any thing which is able to make money has been exploited to make people believe they need it and thus buy it..now bac to this carbon filter and activate carbon thing... don u noe wat does activated carbon actually do.. it not jus act as filter it absorb the other metal and chemical.. the activated carbon is very reactive hence it will bind to virtually anything.. and the surface with come in contact for a small 1cmx1cmx1cm is equal to 2 football field.. go c how big is ur carbon filter.. but if u buy those ciplak carbon filter then i m spechless la.. so ur those small particle will still bind to the activate carbon.. then for those germs, normal UV light is already suffiecient to kill 90 of it.. hence jus left to normal boiling to further ensure urself it it safe..

This post has been edited by xavi5567: Mar 24 2009, 08:00 PM
SUSSeLrAhC
post Mar 24 2009, 08:04 PM

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usually i just drink boiled filtered water... and i know RO water is safe, what i hate most is those ppl advocating distilled water. to produce distilled water, it cost a bomb! not to even mention the cost of the distiller involved.
Visualize
post Mar 24 2009, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM)
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".
Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).
It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.
*
Reading your statement made me think of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

So how about those RO water machine outside shoplots, where you pay 30 cents to get like so much water?
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 09:53 PM

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the RO machine outside the shoplot is jus a money making machine.. rm0.3 per litre.... i doubt it is ever RO.. taste more like plain tap water which smell and taste a bit weird..
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM)
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".
Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).

It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.
*
Hmm simple question. Do you install any type of water filter at your home? If you do, you are contradicting to your standings. Because our grandparents/great grand parents do not know what is a water filter and neither they have seen any during their times. lol.

See as time past by, we need to upgrade ourself with better filteration. Well, at short term, you won't know the effect of the contamination will do to you. In long run, nobody can assure what will happen as well. but do you wan to risk yourself by saving few k's? Serious speaking my life worth more than that few k's of savings. tongue.gif


Added on March 24, 2009, 10:17 pm
QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 07:48 PM)
great comment by alanyuppie, wat he said is very true....water and any thing which is able to make money has been exploited to make people believe they need it and thus buy it..now bac to this carbon filter and activate carbon thing... don u noe wat does activated carbon actually do.. it not jus act as filter it absorb the other metal and chemical.. the activated carbon is very reactive hence it will bind to virtually anything.. and the surface with come in contact for a small 1cmx1cmx1cm is equal to 2 football field.. go c how big is ur carbon filter.. but if u buy those ciplak carbon filter then i m spechless la.. so ur those small particle will still bind to the activate carbon.. then for those germs, normal UV light is already suffiecient to kill 90 of it.. hence jus left to normal boiling to further ensure urself it it safe..
*
Uhh yes, active carbon can filter bacteria.

But how about viruses? synthetic dye? drugs contamination?unknown dissolve solids??


Added on March 24, 2009, 10:19 pm
QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 09:53 PM)
the RO machine outside the shoplot is jus a money making machine.. rm0.3 per litre.... i doubt it is ever RO.. taste more like plain tap water which smell and taste a bit weird..
*
Lol how you know it is not RO??? don't assume, just because it is outside making money means it is a cheat.

I shall go test those machine with TDS meter if those are real RO or just paip water. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by NINJIAO: Mar 24 2009, 10:20 PM
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 10:28 PM

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Hmm...I think I have to give a bit of history about water and the problems around the world.

Water is an expensive commodity yes although probably not traded as petroleum is, it is still very precious. All around the world, everyone is concern about water shortage. These shortages are as a resulted of overuse, pollution or just that there's limited supply due to the natural environment e.g. desert.

In the US, because of how big the land is, a lot of people has water treatment systems at home and they use groundwater for their daily use. Now in some areas, the groundwater is badly polluted from past industrial activities or historical pollution e.g. tanning of hides, the tannery would simply dump the waste into the river as it's so convenient, including chemicals used to tanning the hides to make leather. A very good example is California, USA. The groundwater in California in certain areas are badly polluted from the 1950s and 1960s due to jetplane manufacturing waste (mostly solvents) as environmental control wasn't as strong as it is now. Other heavy industries have polluted the water cachement areas quite significantly that drinking groundwater is impossible and so, they buy bottled water to drink at home.

Water purification technologies developed over time, mostly as a result of the need for clean water for manufacturing processes. However, some of these technologies are developed to treat drinking water. Depending on the water content in a specific location, the drinking water treatment plant can be technologically advances (huge RO units for desalination in the Middle East, UV light to remove organic pollution in the water) or they can extremely simple with a few processes.

Is RO water good for you? It depends. Not all RO water gives the same result as it changes according to water pressure and chlorine. Some RO membranes are sensitive to chlorine fluctuations and will be destroyed by it. It's either thin-film cellulaste or polyamide : try to google and let me know. RO drinking water quality may not be too bad tbh because depending on the configuration of the system, the water purity may be different. Depends on the number of modules and configuration (single stage, double stage). RO membranes also have a lifetime i.e. they degrade over time so their overall efficiency will decrease.

I wouldn't buy it for home though because maintaining it may be more costly than expected. There is a little clause in the WHO drinking water guidelines about chlorine dosage that in the event of epidemics, the chlorine dosage can increase. Some folks say that an activated carbon filter upfront will help but even that carbon filter will be used up in no time. Also, with RO systems, you are using more water because there is a stream of concentrated "salt" water. I suppose that "salt" water can be used for gardening, if you did have a garden but if you're living in a condominium, it's probalby going to end down the drain unless you have plants.

The author is also generalizing about the big water companies. They are big reputable companies but they don't necessarily make the RO membranes and neither do they hold the patents for the process configuration. GE bought a small Canadian outfit called Glegg and just revamped the website to include free material about water technologies on their website (previously Glegg material and now updated as well). DOW is a chemical company that makes a lot of things, including RO membranes. Their competitor is Hydranautics. But these are big names and they don't make the small RO units that you guys see on the market. At least, I don't recall but I could be wrong.

The leaching of minerals from the body comes from the fact that pure water is acidic. It's known that acidic water will leach out the minerals, be it from the body or in the natural environment. What is not so well-known to the general public is that at a certain purity, the measurment of the acidity in the water is not accurate. pH of the water just cannot be measured. But it's usually of a purer form than is allowable as drinking water.

Carbonated drinks are acidic. Those in science classes should know. Blow a straw into water for awhile and measure the pH and it's slightly acidic. CO2 dissolves slightly in the water and forms a weak carbonic acid.

Hmm...think I'll stop here. Maybe better if you post up a question that you need an answer to about RO and I can help answer. I can't provided the final answer but some direction should be ok. Take it with a pinch of salt. wink.gif

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 24 2009, 10:33 PM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:39 PM

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Wow myremi wrote a long fair informative page.

rclxms.gif notworthy.gif rclxms.gif notworthy.gif rclxms.gif notworthy.gif

Thankiu sifu of water.
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 11:01 PM

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well i dont hav ur fancy TDS water testing system to test whether my water is RO or tap water.. but that is wat i c.. most of the time .. i jus those supplier come to take the coin.. i dont c they ever change the filter or membrane.. plus i never even c any membrane sytem in it.. ya i saw the inside of those RO water dispenser outside shoplot.. it hav 1 uv light 3 carbon filter and 1 big about 50 litre tank and the cooling system for cold water and coin system.. tat all.. each time they come they only take the coin.. they come once every 3 week.. and the machine is always used by people.. so i would roughly estimated bout 20+ people a day take at least 5 litre of water out of it.. so tell me how much it can be used b4 anything need to be changed?
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:51 PM

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Hard to say xavi5567. The thing with activated carbon is that it does 2 things mostly :
-remove chlorine
-remove organics

It's not known to remove bacteria in the water industry. It can remove dead bacterial though i.e. those that died from the chlorine dosing but usually, the dosing is added before the inlet.

Activate carbon is a haven for bacteria though. Because of the organics "trapped" in the carbon and the reduce chlorine amount, the bacteria nearest to the outlet will have more bacteria count than at the inlet (where the chlorine content is higher).

Not sure about 3 weeks. There are test kits for bacteria though but I don't know what is the acceptable limit. But it's probably not that bad as long as the water is not stagnant for too long. If it's internally circulating, 3 weeks should be fine I think. If not, well, drinking unboiled water in Petaling Street is equally bad. smile.gif You'll get bad diarrhoa but usually, that's it.


skiddtrader
post Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM

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I'm currently searching for a filter solution for my home. Although initially was to filter out the chlorine smell and taste, after reading the Net I've become more confused. I've read about the detractors of RO water and how it isn't natural. And by the way, isn't rain water more equivalent to distilled water?

As far as I know RO is just another form of filtration, enough to filter out bacteria so you can drink it without boiling. Which comes to my question, why do we boil our water anyway? Just to kill germs and bacteria?

Wouldn't RO water taste flat without the salt that comes with water? I can't remember RO water taste but I do know distilled water taste flat.

Is microwave water even better than RO water or UV treated water?

Would germs grow on RO water filters?
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM

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There is a minimum flow that is used a guideline with pure water to prevent bacteria growth. But that only works with very pure water though.

As for TDS testing system, that is pretty old thinking. Nowadays, water industry tech folks go by specific ions. I think the field test kit strips are pretty cheap. Call up companies in yellow pages. Should be ok.


Added on March 25, 2009, 12:06 amWhat is natural water? And how natural do we really need it to be?

If it's just chlorine, just buy an activate carbon filter. You can see the bacteria growth in the water just by opening the filter and seeing the brown film formation.

Boiling water comes about because of cholera and other water-borne diseases. Our tropical climate is good for them. smile.gif

Taste flat? Water is suppose to be tasteless. You're probably tasting the calcium + magnesium i.e. hard water.

UV is to treat bacteria but damn expensive for home use. Plus, the light bulb has lifetime and it weakens over time. Not to mention that there's a bacteria film that may form over the quartz tube.

Germs will grow on RO filters : germs wll grow everywhere, especially if the RO is stagnant for awhile. At work, the RO modules are only idle for maybe 4 hrs then starts again. Mind you, work is different from home usage (factory needs tons of water).

You won't die lah.

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 25 2009, 12:06 AM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 25 2009, 01:18 AM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM)
I'm currently searching for a filter solution for my home. Although initially was to filter out the chlorine smell and taste, after reading the Net I've become more confused. I've read about the detractors of RO water and how it isn't natural. And by the way, isn't rain water more equivalent to distilled water?

Yup rain water is more equivalent to distilled or RO water.

As far as I know RO is just another form of filtration, enough to filter out bacteria so you can drink it without boiling. Which comes to my question, why do we boil our water anyway? Just to kill germs and bacteria?

RO is same like other filteration. only difference is the pores size is 0.0001 micron. 500,000 times smaller than a strand of hair. RO need a water pump or pressure of 40 psi to squeeze water thru the RO membrane. That is why it filters everything out including bad contamination or good minerals. But minerals should be taken from food because minerals in water is very minimal. That is why i'm trying to make a point in here. Your body need water so drink water. Simple. If need minerals then take from food.

Wouldn't RO water taste flat without the salt that comes with water? I can't remember RO water taste but I do know distilled water taste flat.

Uhhh, it taste same to me. hahah. tasteless.

Is microwave water even better than RO water or UV treated water?

You mean put water in microwave? It doesn't remove contamination in the first place lor. microwave it only kills bacteria.

Would germs grow on RO water filters?

Depends on system. but because mostly all filteration system is close system so it would be pretty safe from bacterial growth.

*
skiddtrader
post Mar 25 2009, 03:35 AM

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Thanks for the replies.

Another question, is it a good idea to put a outdoor filter that filters chlorine but then the water will be filling up my storage tanks in the house. Will the lack of chlorine in the tanks encourage bacteria growth?

Was thinking of have an outdoor filter that filters chlorine and sendiments and another inner filter for drinking water. I have no doubt RO water is exceptionally clean, and possibly the cleanest. Just wondered if it taste flat as distilled water. Best comparison is you drink a bottle of distilled water and a bottle of mineral water. The difference is the mineral water taste sweeter, not as in sugar sweet but tastier than the distilled water.



myremi
post Mar 25 2009, 07:34 AM

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I wouldn't be too obsessive about the taste. It just depends on the amount of salts in the water.

You're right about the outdoor filter. Just put a small one in the kitchen. It's good enough.
xavi5567
post Mar 25 2009, 07:57 AM

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got selled drinking distilled water de meh? i thought those r RO water.. to me the taste is the same but mineral water smell diff. regarding bacteria growth.. the water filteration system always employ alluminium in its(purest form) as storage and reflector to the UV light.. ya i agree that as time past the carbon filter will become breeding ground for other organism.. but tat up to us to change it and reactivated it to be reuse again..
myremi
post Mar 25 2009, 08:23 AM

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What do you mean "employ aluminium in it's purest form as storage and reflector to UV light"?

Reactivating spent carbon : only too many times you can do this because it reactivates about 75% each time. So there are 25% trapped organics / chlorine in there. Then it's another 75% of that 75%. Now maybe only 50% of the carbon is good. I'll just buy new ones. It's small quantity. Carbon is organic materials so it would decompose in the landfills too.
xavi5567
post Mar 25 2009, 09:14 AM

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i am not sure but tat wat i learn from a documentary bout water" for the flow of water" in india they jus use a aluminium tank and a aluminium cover to cover its water under the cover they employ UV light to kill the germs. but before the water enter the storage it passed by a series of carbon filter..it is the cheapest way to produce clean water in india.. only 2 US DOLLAR perperson a year
SUSMatrix
post Mar 25 2009, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM)
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".
Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).

It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.
*
You also forgot to mention that back your grandparents day, their health is probably not so good with bad gum, bad teeth, skin rashes , etc etc from drinking from the polluted river.

Mankind progress. Do you want to stay in the stone age? Like people die from TB previously, no cure. But now there is.

Admitly, the water issue has been overblown with agressive marketing campaign, but there are truth in most of it (not all). I'm all for RO water.


Added on March 25, 2009, 9:27 am
QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 25 2009, 07:57 AM)
got selled drinking distilled water de meh? i thought those r RO water.. to me the taste is the same but mineral water smell diff. regarding bacteria growth.. the water filteration system always employ alluminium in its(purest form) as storage and reflector to the UV light.. ya i agree that as time past the carbon filter will become breeding ground for other organism.. but tat up to us to change it and reactivated it to be reuse again..
*
I don't drink mineral water...it taste horrible. Furthermore, i read somewhere b4, those 'minerals' in the water are non-organic and can't be asorbed by ur body. You get ur minerals from your food. Water is to cleanse the system and acts as an agent to carry stuff in ur bloodstream.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Mar 25 2009, 09:27 AM
BOURN3
post Mar 25 2009, 10:25 AM

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talking about UV water filter, i've seen one model. the structure is very simple, got 1 UV bulb and 1 transparent tube (which made from plastic/polymer...). UV light will kill bacteria as water flows thru transparent tube.

isnt it hazardous? cos UV light degrade polymers and as water go thru, it will carry leached polymers formed by degradation. sad.gif

i've been thinking for long time now and totally forgot bout dis (until u guys brought up this thread....). thx in advance for whom answering this.... rclxms.gif rclxms.gif
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 25 2009, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Mar 25 2009, 03:35 AM)
Thanks for the replies.

Another question, is it a good idea to put a outdoor filter that filters chlorine but then the water will be filling up my storage tanks in the house. Will the lack of chlorine in the tanks encourage bacteria growth?

Was thinking of have an outdoor filter that filters chlorine and sendiments and another inner filter for drinking water. I have no doubt RO water is exceptionally clean, and possibly the cleanest. Just wondered if it taste flat as distilled water. Best comparison is you drink a bottle of distilled water and a bottle of mineral water. The difference is the mineral water taste sweeter, not as in sugar sweet but tastier than the distilled water.
*
Actually you can't find a outdoor filter that filter clorine like indoor unit. Mostly just reduce clorine because if clorine not present thru out the piping system and the water reserve, germs or bacteria might be duplicating in there. Lol, especially the water reserve tank. Some even had dead rats or cicak inside. Yucks. So please do clean or check the water tank after sometime. lol. tongue.gif
skiddtrader
post Mar 25 2009, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 25 2009, 10:54 AM)
Actually you can't find a outdoor filter that filter clorine like indoor unit. Mostly just reduce clorine because if clorine not present thru out the piping system and the water reserve, germs or bacteria might be duplicating in there. Lol, especially the water reserve tank. Some even had dead rats or cicak inside. Yucks. So please do clean or check the water tank after sometime. lol.  tongue.gif
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Yeah which is why I'm concern about the water tank. If the outdoor unit filters most of the chlorine then I'm just encouraging growth in my water tank. Although I read that most outdoor unit do not remove ALL the chlorine, just a portion of it and if not mistaken, most chlorine evaporates after some time anyway.

I want to filter out some chlorine because sometimes the smell of chlorine also comes from the shower and I read that chlorine absorption is also maximise during bathing in hot showers. So its a dilemma to choose which kind of filters I need. I'm not worried about indoor filters that we use to filter drinking water but more on the water reserve tank.

A typical outdoor sand filter with a carbon layer takes care of the brownish water and treats chlorine, quite sure it doesn't completely removes all chlorine. And an indoor filter will take care of the drinking water. Just need some clarification of the importance of having chlorine present in the water tank.


BOURN3
post Mar 25 2009, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 25 2009, 10:54 AM)
Actually you can't find a outdoor filter that filter clorine like indoor unit. Mostly just reduce clorine because if clorine not present thru out the piping system and the water reserve, germs or bacteria might be duplicating in there. Lol, especially the water reserve tank. Some even had dead rats or cicak inside. Yucks. So please do clean or check the water tank after sometime. lol.  tongue.gif
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seriously...take some time to clean ur water tank. a few years back, i went to my fren house to repair some leakage on his water tank. surprisingly, i found a frog swimming inside. how the hell the frog could climb up there? i dunno either. but just imagine, the water u are using for cooking and drinking: got frog swimming in it.... shocking.gif shocking.gif shocking.gif
janecomel
post Mar 25 2009, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 24 2009, 10:33 AM)
What other people told you is a myth created by salesman. tongue.gif

R.O is the only way to filter drugs contamination.  rclxms.gif

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it is proven by science...
have to really study n do it ...
any one using it at home?

TSNINJIAO
post Mar 25 2009, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(Visualize @ Mar 24 2009, 08:43 PM)
Reading your statement made me think of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

So how about those RO water machine outside shoplots, where you pay 30 cents to get like so much water?
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So today i went to my nearby ro water vending machine. Take a 10 sen coin and put inside. Then wash the bottle with the churn out water from machine.

Went back home and rinse a cup and fill in the ro water i got from the vending machine.

This is what i got:

user posted image

003ppm ohmy.gif

Hmm guess they really didn't change the filter. Maybe i should check the vending machine again. Who knows, maybe it is name RO only, but actually is normal filtered water. If it is true ro, readings should be 0. tongue.gif


wKkaY
post Mar 25 2009, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Mar 25 2009, 02:54 AM)
As for TDS testing system, that is pretty old thinking. Nowadays, water industry tech folks go by specific ions. I think the field test kit strips are pretty cheap. Call up companies in yellow pages. Should be ok.
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I checked out my water supplier's water quality report, and found that TDS is only one out of many many tests they do. So yeah, I think you'd be misleading yourself if the only tool you have to judge water quality is a TDS meter.

From: http://www.sewl.com.au/SiteCollectionDocum...port%202008.pdf
QUOTE
Drinking water quality standards: Escherichia coli (E. coli), disinfection by-products - chloroacetic acid, dichloroacetic acid, trichloroacetic acid and trihalomethanes, aluminium, turbidity.

Other water quality parameters: Including fluoride, copper, lead, manganese, inorganic compounds, organic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, pesticides.
                                 
Aesthetic water quality: Colour, pH, iron, chlorine.

xavi5567
post Mar 25 2009, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 25 2009, 03:08 PM)
So today i went to my nearby ro water vending machine. Take a 10 sen coin and put inside. Then wash the bottle with the churn out water from machine.

Went back home and rinse a cup and fill in the ro water i got from the vending machine.

This is what i got:

user posted image

003ppm ohmy.gif

Hmm guess they really didn't change the filter. Maybe i should check the vending machine again. Who knows, maybe it is name RO only, but actually is normal filtered water. If it is true ro, readings should be 0. tongue.gif
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told u so.. tat at ur house there.. try go to those busy area and check.. inside all i c is jus 3 big filter and another 3 small filter.. and a uv lamp.. tat all. ur is 003 seem good enough.. but my area here i doubt is tat low.. and regarding the degradation of polymer by uv light.. well if the distributor uses normal plastic then i m speechless.. there is a special PET polymer which able to resist UV degradation.. polymer is addable.. so it depend the uses.. u need UV protection u jus add in UV guard substance into ur polymer--> uv resistant polymer.. hope it answer the question
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 25 2009, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(wKkaY @ Mar 25 2009, 04:50 PM)
I checked out my water supplier's water quality report, and found that TDS is only one out of many many tests they do. So yeah, I think you'd be misleading yourself if the only tool you have to judge water quality is a TDS meter.

From: http://www.sewl.com.au/SiteCollectionDocum...port%202008.pdf
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Well other tools and lab test would cost a hefty sum of money if you are to send them for test every now and then.

That's why It is better to have nothing inside rather than have a cocktail of everything good and bad. Lol
myremi
post Mar 26 2009, 01:08 AM

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Too late now. Will replay tomorrow.

Just a side note. TDS can be converted to Conductivity. 5000 microSiemens/cm is the quality of brackish water (where seawater and river water meet). Typical city water is 200-500 uS/cm.

Mind you, this is an indicator only. Not the full picture. There are many analysis done on water and the Water Boards are suppose to quarantee a certain spec all along the distribution line. NOt sure about the hwole of Malaysia but in Kuching, the water quality is analysed by Jabatan Kimia daily. And the Health Ministry is the one that sets the water quality specs. Huge list.

Heading to bed. Nite2 guys.


Added on March 26, 2009, 1:09 amConductivity is influenced by many things though. NINJAO, blow bubbles into the water and check the TDS reading again. It went up I bet.



This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 26 2009, 01:09 AM
xavi5567
post Mar 26 2009, 10:36 AM

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sure the reading will went up.. in our breath alone there is more than jus carbon dioxide..N,H,O,Cetc sure will shoot up the reading..
myremi
post Mar 26 2009, 12:55 PM

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xavi, i would suggest to goto GEWater site and try to find out where the library is and start reading there. Some of the info in your posts, a bit alang-alang lah. And I don't quite have the time to answer everything.

The water tech you mention in India. There's a lot of focus on low-tech water purification technologies around the world because of the money profits from the lower income community. But the best I've seen was a submission to the Rolex Environmental Annual Competition a few years ago. An African manufactured clay jars - 2 clay jars and you have a simple but effective water purifier.

Ok, now some of the things spoken about :

Aluminium : I guess it depends on the surface that is in contact with the water. As long as the aluminium doesn't increase the aluminium contenets in the water to alarming levels, should be fine.

UV filter : I wouldn't buy it because I don't drink unboiled water. No matter what, boiling water is still the safest way of destroying bacteria. Just dont' forget to turn off the fire. >.<

Water Quality Tests : There are a lot of them. I think the last time I saw such a report, the analysis covered 2 pages. I alwyas thought that if there was anythign wrong with the drinking water, the Health Dept would be breathing down their backs.

Water Tank Cleaning : It's a good idea to check yes. But don't just simple drain the water lah. Water the garden at least. tongue.gif Sayang the water just like that. And do it at an appropriate time. During dry season, not good lah.

Water tank + bacteria + chlorine : One thing about chlorine is that it is aggressive against metals if in high quantities. So maybe can get hold in water tank after a long time. I wouldn't worry too much about a filtration system unless it's really really bad. I just do end of point filter in kitchen. In the bathroom, I'm not so worried. But if you have the money to spend, go ahead and get your filters.

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 26 2009, 12:56 PM
sharifuddin
post Jul 18 2009, 08:40 PM

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I would like to share my experience of using a water filter for drinking and cooking for 5 years.

Poke open its cover last month and shocked to see some growth in the filter itself!!! cry.gif

All the while we have been drinking contaminated water rupa-rupanya! icon_question.gif

Well it was my own mistake not to change the filters according to their schedule.....but hey.....I tried but somehow when I got to know how much more I need to fork out for the filter replacement.....I just said to myself....tak apalah....lain kali boleh buat.... whistling.gif

Anyway....I came to conclusion that buying a water filter system is similar to acquiring a photocopier for the office....it needs excellent support service in order for it to perform as it should. That's how I came across Coway water filter at www.mycoway.net

The good thing is it's not just water filter, but also a water dispenser for hot, room and cold temperature. Some more it's having digital interface which makes it kind of cool with LED lighting.

Unlike other brands that sell almost every type of products including water filter that could be manufactured in China which they then put on their logo stickers, Coway do the R&D and manufacture themselves in Korea.

I cost me just RM110 per month and I need not worry about quality of the filtered water anymore. Coway's service team will come for service every 2 months....sedar-sedar saja diorang call to set appointment. thumbup.gif



user posted image

Close-up of the filter
user posted image

The Coway Petit fits just nice in between other appliances in my kitchen.
user posted image
bigrabbit
post Jul 19 2009, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 24 2009, 10:33 AM)
What other people told you is a myth created by salesman. tongue.gif

R.O is the only way to filter drugs contamination.  rclxms.gif

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yes, this is very true, and i believe what a CWS level6 (the highest level) said, somemore i attended water seminar before, RO is the only way to remove the contamination in water! neway, ppl rather trust a salesman or a highest CWS leh? i dun care if they are whatsoever water technician as i really see the CWS level 6 (he is also a nutritionist!) talking about RO and water in front of me, nice topic u have! ppl shud be aware of water issues and oso RO! check this out: http://www.wqa.org/ i am proud to be a RO user smile.gif

This post has been edited by bigrabbit: Jul 19 2009, 07:06 PM
myremi
post Jul 20 2009, 09:00 AM

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Pertaining to the bacteria in filter, there is a misconception in place that it's actually dirty water.

It's actually not. Filters act as bacteria traps and in the water industry, any filter that is after the activated carbon portion, will be a haven for bacteria growth. Why?

1) Activated carbon removes chlorine that acts as a biocide i.e. it kills bateria.
2) Filters have a lot of pores around where bacteria can stick on and grow. Even with fast moving water, they will still grow.

Filters are meant to be changed out, if they don't have backwashing facilities. I'd say that you probably kept your first filter for too long - 5 years is damn long.

RO systems are for ppl who can afford it. I don't use it because extra water is needed and that concentrated water is going to waste. Also, additional money cost in the form of electricity.
sharifuddin
post Jul 20 2009, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Jul 20 2009, 09:00 AM)
Pertaining to the bacteria in filter, there is a misconception in place that it's actually dirty water.

It's actually not. Filters act as bacteria traps and in the water industry, any filter that is after the activated carbon portion, will be a haven for bacteria growth. Why?

1) Activated carbon removes chlorine that acts as a biocide i.e. it kills bateria.
2) Filters have a lot of pores around where bacteria can stick on and grow. Even with fast moving water, they will still grow.

Filters are meant to be changed out, if they don't have backwashing facilities. I'd say that you probably kept your first filter for too long - 5 years is damn long.

RO systems are for ppl who can afford it. I don't use it because extra water is needed and that concentrated water is going to waste. Also, additional money cost in the form of electricity.
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You are absolutely right there.

I believe the problem lies with the system of owning the water filter.....doesn't matter whether the filter is RO or ultra or just plain carbon......most important it needs a reliable system that will ensure somehow the filter is changed at regular intervals.

Unfortunately for me, I bought the water filter already expensive 5 years ago and hesitated to change the filters because they don't come cheap either.

When I came across www.mycoway.net and realized that I don't need to own the system but can just rent at affordable cost....I knew that's the solution for me. True enough, the water filter is now being regularly maintained every 2 months.....and since it dispenses choices of hot, room and cold water, it makes life easy for my whole family.

Is it expensive?....it may for some but I believe the benefits far outweigh the rental cost of RM110 per month that I am paying now. The cost is even more reasonable considering its great utilization for the whole family and assurance that we get clean water for drinking everyday.





myremi
post Jul 20 2009, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(sharifuddin @ Jul 20 2009, 09:38 AM)
You are absolutely right there.

I believe the problem lies with the system of owning the water filter.....doesn't matter whether the filter is RO or ultra or just plain carbon......most important it needs a reliable system that will ensure somehow the filter is changed at regular intervals.

Unfortunately for me, I bought the water filter already expensive 5 years ago and hesitated to change the filters because they don't come cheap either.

When I came across www.mycoway.net and realized that I don't need to own the system but can just rent at affordable cost....I knew that's the solution for me. True enough, the water filter is now being regularly maintained every 2 months.....and since it dispenses choices of hot, room and cold water, it makes life easy for my whole family.

Is it expensive?....it may for some but I believe the benefits far outweigh the rental cost of RM110 per month that I am paying now. The cost is even more reasonable considering its great utilization for the whole family and assurance that we get clean water for drinking everyday.
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I wonder if I should debunk some myths here or not. smile.gif But I guess it's also based on what people wants and needs are. For me, I live with my Granny and Uncle so it's not a big family. We prefer to have hot water boiled via gas because we do not need constant supply. Plus, it was easier having not to deal with scale cleaning with electrical appliances and we are fortunate that in Kuching, Sarawak, the water hardness is not an usual, unlike in KL and Selangor.

I can understand about the convenience but on the health part, water isn't the only aspect to look at. From a disease control point of view, yes, clean water source is necessary. But for long-term health and wellbeing, that comes in the form of lifestyle, nutrition and eating habits. And out of the 3, the hardest ones to come to terms with are nutrition and eating habits.



 

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