Nice article about it
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Magazine/manu...1104/index.html

Quote from the article



This post has been edited by bahathir: Mar 24 2009, 03:02 PM

Talking about PC vs CD player, I did a test before in between these 2 equipment. The system comprises ATC speakers, Audio Research integrated tube amplifier, Philips old CD player, Exemblache DAC, Tara Labs interconnect cable, Coaxial digital cable and Zu Cables speakers cables. I just made it as simple as possible. After more than 2 hours of listening, including blind listening test, the conclusion is PC sounding less impressive, pick-up more noise than normal CD player. When listen to Tsai Ching CD, no doubts, cd player win. PC sound thinner, less warm and too much noise. From this test conclusion, PC doesn't sounding more detail than cd player, due to pick-up more noise than cd player, a lot of listener will think that it is detail rather than noise.

AdvanceNissan,

Are you comparing audio CD in both PC and CD player?

dont wanna sound -pun intended LOL- skeptical here bud but ahh needs a tad more detail like hows datastream being extracted from da PC? if its jus off de mobos onboard soundcard, then yesss IMO its very likely to be crappy. or isit off a hifi grade dedicated soundcard with discrete power supply? toslink, coaxial or USB? even if one uses the same downstream components, da factors i've stated can me a diff.

sooo one really cant make general statements like PC or CD player is better - it all depends on the means & its implementation

Now, try something like this.
DEVICE -optical-> DAC -> AMP -> Speakers
or
DEVICE -Digital COAX-> DAC -> AMP -> Speakers

Substitute/Change the DEVICE part with PC, CDP, DVD,...
Source for CDP : CD Audio
Source for PC : Lossless encoded files from the SAME CD rip, or just the raw WAV file also can.

Then, honestly tell us the result.

I already did this test, and I really cannot tell the differences.

BTW, how is your CD drive connected to your soundcard/motherboard? Is it via analog or digital ? Some soundcards can use digital out from the CD drive, If not, then, analog signal from CD drive will be converted to digital by ADC before it sent out as digital.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by bahathir: Mar 24 2009, 06:28 PM

hahaha wat DAC u used for testing? i've not heard of exemblache DAC... mind to show me the web?

If a computer does not sound good as a rm10k cdplayer, i wondering how studio works in producing recording haha.

i believe good DACs make a difference
thats wat gives the analogue signal character....
just like Alpine F1 CDA-7990 comes with BB K-Grade....
may not be the best in the world...but for car audio...its one of the smoothest and best cd player

vir_killer, u mentioned about studio recording
for studio, the sound card is not consumer type
they r professional series and connected to serious equipment
i know as i used to support sound studios and one of my close fren works for Ad Audio as a sound engineer.
having studio equipment doesnt mean it must be everyone's taste

one good album to show such an experience is Legends Of Jazz
this cd comes with the DVD to show you how the cd is recorded

my last 0.02cents......how many of us think that their ears r accurate?

mine isnt......

true... like wat you said, studio equipments are not cheap. i know there is a limitation of PC sound card where ESI Juli@ that i used is known as SEMI-PRO grade only. haha. However, in order to make a PC as a good source transport i had go through some SOS kind of magazine shows of studios setup. hmm.. i also know that, some serious sound card runs firewire... but i dun know wat is it for..

My vision, make my playing source alike studio setup. who knows.. may b i will go to custom make a ultra high quality transformer for my PC, with solid cap finished motherboard.

For my behringer SRC2496 DAC, i have a clear vision of modification.
1. Custom R-Core transformer or toroudal transformer.
2. Separate power supply for digital and analog part as like (zapfilter and LClock)
3. Fully recap with rubycon capacitors if still available
4. check signal capacitor
5. check digital input pulse transfomer

afterall, Lclock outputs the clock to my esi juli@.
i will keep my progress of the game updated as when my current upgrade project done.!! stay tuned. i will post some picture or video here... Hope your all will like it.

with those mods i mentioned, i believe my playing source guaranteed will stands a minimum of RM10k kind of sound quality.

I wouldnt say CD Player quality are not good. It is good if and only if you have alot of money!!!!! not in a good value of paying as comparing to PC setup. CDP's owner can deny or disagree towards my words.. But dCS world digital conversion pioneer has proof of my statement of vision.

We have found that sending uncompressed digital audio data from a PC to a high-quality standalone D/A processor results in sound quality that is indistinguishable from playing a CD on a regular player. Cited from Stereophile by John Atkinson

all my thoughts modifications of transport and dacs were generated after i knew that many high end hifi manufacturers are producing source machine for PC.

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Added on March 25, 2009, 5:47 amClick here for Monster M1000i review. who are suppose to say things bad until they listen into it? hehe
click here for More pro...

As a person who is more than 10years experience of being a music lover... i came out with a conclusion or definition that audiophile loves good recordings and an appropriate setup that suits or satisfying his or her taste of music. nothing more that. simple like 1+1.

This post has been edited by vir___killer: Mar 25 2009, 05:49 AM

sheeeeaaat braa if ya do all that, even my ipod will become worldclass - maybe even cap ayam becomes KFC!

seriously though, the mods u stated are exactly wot 'hi-end' components provide. its becoming glaringly clear to me that the DAC chip itself has the least to do with great sound but more the peripheral circuitry & components surronding de DAC that truly matters. sheeeaat some of the big name audiophile DACs uses NOS philips chips made in de 90s !!!

but if ya planning all those mods, then i think ya on the 'korek' path. im just completely indadark on the behringer though but it doesnt really matter i guess. theres a standup dude on headfi that mods a cheapie china errr 'average' -im being kind here- sounding DAC called ZhaoLu D2 and turned it into a serious player just be upgrading the analogue section (similiar to Zapfilter) plus power supply mods too i think.

however i wouldnt go round quoting stereophile mag as the gospel truth though cos...emmm they have not been known to be totally transparent & non biased. gotta keep ze advertizers happy u know la.

Sorry, but your e-peen cannot be found on the Audiophile subforum.

Please look for it elsewhere.

As I said earlier, I tried to make it as simple as possible. So I just connected the PC to DAC using coaxial digital cable from motherboard digital out. Since I want to make it to be fair to cd player and PC, so I just used a cheap and old Philips cd player, it was cost only RM350.00 12 years ago. This test was tested with 2 of my hifi kaki friends, and we get the same conclusion. Talk about studio recording, I think you need to really go to a studio and see what studio really is, not as simple as our home pc setup only.

Haah ? This setup is "high end" ??

bro, it is hard to say whether ur system can match a 10k system or not
first, alot of variables and its not an apple to apple comparison
things like system matching, power factor
honestly, during midnight i use my good old senheisser headphones to listen to music
just plugged in either to the PC or CDP directly....still sound very good from both source
my PC is also plugged into the amplifier and same goes for my CDP.
but both deliver different SQ when going through my speakers
i'm also using quite ok sound card...ASUS Xonar STX
i would still rate my CDP sounding better
both using same interconnects and same length
both terminated with the same RCA jacks and with Furutech silver solder

one thing i hv noted though
i did a CD demagnetizing track by DENSEN
followed by deStat by Furutech...to discharge all the static around my hifi rig....
sounds alot better....darker...cleaner

Guys ....don't be cruel lah to this person.....the meaning of hi end is soooo subjective lah....if you say you have a Krell and claim that you have hi end setup still there's someone will say 'mine is more hi end' and the debate never stops.....as long as this person love his setup then it's an apple to him lah.....kesin dia kalau kita flame too much......music is made to be enjoy...if you have found your self a gems, it always a gems to your eyes...even thou not to others....

Muhahaha

bro ...when talking bout PC sound ....there r a few things involve that you should know before making a comparison....

DO NOT use cd-rom as playback device.....the reason why everyone says PC is better is because CD-rom or CD player playback is real time playback ...even with the buffer ....the optic is not capable to picking up the bits in 100% accuracy ...that is why the DAC has an algorithm to correct the mistake.....but if you are to rip it to your hdd....using the software EAC, you can actually rip it to 100% accuracy because they will read the CD multiple time till its bitperfect....any playback from HDD is suppose to be 100% accuracy ...

another thing is, you need to install ASIO driver to your foobar in order to bypass the Window....everything you play using PC will actually go through the Window which will degrade the sound...the difference is actually quite huge if you are using ASIO drivers.....

try it with the ASIO driver with foobar200....you will realize that PC audio is superior...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_nugent.htm

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/nugent.htm

i think these 2 article are quite informative on Computer audio ...Please read it entirely before giving any comments on CD player Vs PC audio....

you indeed very serious in hifi.. and rich.. =P
the furutech destat cost a bomb to me..
but i had heard in hifi shop. and it really does the magic.. it is cleaner . much more cleaner imho.

bro....the destat is a worth while product to invest
while upgrading cables can be done with that type of money...
i chose the destat over other things
first....its the improvement percentage ratio against high end cables
plus....this is not a 1 time thing
it can be done multiple times
home...car....
of coz having both high end cables with destat lagi dahsyat

1 more point....tat destat not mine
hahahahahahahaha

the densen cd is definitely worth every penny of it....
now can't even find that cd

I M BACK here again for something freaking NEW and surprise....

recently, i just mod with my soundcard lol... analog part from my ESI juli@ was removed.. some chips add sanyo OS-CON as decoupling capacitors...

the best part is the power source of soundcard must be isolated from your CPU PSU... in order to get an AUDIOPHILE accurate and quality of sound.. quality of power source for ur digital transport judges the sound u can go regardless of how high end dac chip or watever brand of soundcard. but i only recommend computer as digital transport instead of dac in a computer..

A relatively good Transfo PSU is built for my soundcard digital part..
The PSU consist of 2 stage LC filter total with 120,000uF capacitance (Chemi-con SMH 16v 10000uF/each) of input filter for 5V regulator.
For temporaily situation, Rubycon ZL 10V 220uF cap is used for 5V output before my juli@ 3.3v reg
Hence, audiophile obbligato 0.15uF premium gold film cap is added on an OVERKILL 6V 10A EI-core transfo for AC noise filtering even though i have main conditioner.....

Now we in critical part of transmitting a ULTRA HIGH ACCURACY of digital signal
A very very very GOOD computer music player is needed.. if u think its FOOBAR2000... then my answer is NOPE...
FOOBAR2000 is a stone age quality player for computer... now my new player is a japanese player call uLilith with memory CACHE buffer for playback source.. with a music platform software call cMP2 your sound definitely is HIFI quality.. just dont bother those people who still says computer will never sound good. hahaha. through my listening experience and research, computer definitely can become an high end transport cost like minimum rm10k and above.
for those people who are still stubborn or not willing accept the truth of technology is quite pity lo..
hmmm. but 1 thing must bare in mind computer soundcard will never get an hifi quality of sound in stock mode. u need to get into operation of soldering then only can.

its quite hard to for me to take picture to proof that my setup as i allocate all my funds into AUDIO... so sorry.
but u can go and check it out later. i will try to get some picture for ur all.




this is some serious freaks who change their sound card REG to audiophile grade that costs more than rm100+ and also legendary BLACKGATE AUDIOPHILE E-CAPS. LOL

You can get a high end sound with cheap price... but time and research must be done and 1 more important thing...
OPERATION surgery of your component..
WAHAHAHA wat a sound that better than CD PLAYER... u can think about it.

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Added on September 6, 2009, 1:29 pmhey one more thing to remind ur all ... pls don use fiber OPTIC for digital out...
i m sure you will never get a good sound due to the optiical transmitter limitation of the soundcard...
the best is u make urself solder a high quality coaxial straight from ur soundcard pulse trans then to your dac.best connector would be BNC instead of RCA.






GOOD LUCK.

This post has been edited by vir___killer: Sep 6 2009, 01:36 PM

No lah...not a freak at all...that's normal mod we see everyday.....swamping caps and connectors removing clock add some dedicated psu for it..........but improvement is very much noticed....

This post has been edited by gabanyayaya: Sep 6 2009, 08:07 PM

ya.. but it really can turn ur computer into real transport if running good dedicated power supply..... if u did that. hmmm but unfortunately. many ppl who in hifi still don blive the art of DIY...

This post has been edited by vir___killer: Sep 6 2009, 11:56 PM