Don't blame girls, blame economics. Fact is that unlike in the past, we can't go around living for free in caves. The harsh reality of life is that we do need money for good, shelter and to provide a good education for our kids so that they in turn, will be able to start and look after their own families some time down the road.

Sure, some women are just into the money but you'll realise that they make up only a small proportion of the total female population. Most women or ok if you are just an average guy so long as you have direction in life. Having a goal in life gives a girl the security that she needs, knowing that you are striving to provide the family you've started a better life. I don't see anything wrong in that? In fact, I'd encourage a girl to leave her guy if he doesn't act like a man.

Women are indeed more independant these days. Like you I think that the thread title is an inaccurate conclusion. Is isn't about moneym, it's about security and the cold hard fact is that money helps give someone security. Of course there are other contributors like responsibility, maturity and so on. Aren't most men money minded though? If we worked purely for a sense of achievement, why not do it at minimum wage?

Bottom line is that we can either go around all day lamenting how money should not be a factor in maintaining healthy family relations, or we can accept it to be a fact and work for it! Sitting in a corner, crying to yourself, consoling yourself by whining about how poor you are, waiting for a girl to take pity on you and wanting to spend her life with you because she feels sorry for you just isn't going to fly. Stop wallowing in self pity and start working. If you don't find a girl, you'll at least have your dignity and self-respect to fall back on.

Well once again, we should only focus on things we have control over. While we cannot discount the possibility of women wanting to leech of you when you are successful, we will at least have the option of living comfortably. If you don't focus on your career and instead complain about everything at work, finding excuses not to work hard, it's safe to say that you will never have that option as women will stay away. Focusing on your career won't only benefit you financially as it will also help you grow as a person. You will gain confidence, recognition and respect.

I don't know your colleague and I don't know his situation but assuming his GF isn't a complete b****, her reasons for complaining could be justified. First impression is that she's using your friend. Let's look at the other side of the coin however. Maybe she's frustrated that your colleague isn't totally focused on his career? Is he? You should know.

This is relative to where you live. I mean if you're an eskimo living in the North Pole, money isn't exactly a priority. However if you live in a bustling city, the same cannot be said.

This is the point that most men miss out on. They think it's ok to get into the car, with no map or idea where to go. Well, it's not. Life should be like planning a trip. You need to know where you are, where you're going to go and more importantly how you're going to get there. Yes, she needs to know it as well.

I personally get frustrated when I read posts from guys whose women leave them, citing money to be the reason. It's worse when they don't realise that the fact they are poor/aren't rich has little to do with it. Guys especially those just having graduated have problems holding on to their women because while their professional lives have changed, their mentalities take longer. They still do the things they did back in uni e.g. hang out at internet cafe's, mamak's etc. Nothing wrong with hanging out but then they still talk about trivial things e.g. whose car faster, whose DOTA character is more powerful, etc. Question is how all this indicates that you are going to be able to provide your girlfriend with a secure future?

I like the example given by moorish, the one on cavemen. I do however find flaws in the way you put it.

There was no concept of money back then so you shouldn't even bring that into the equation. The strongest providers will get the chicks, just like in the wild where it's survival of the fittest. If a cavemen kept in shape so he could hunt more often, or bring home a bigger food source, he is a good provider. He could build a bigger cave and fend off the advances of any other caveman. If he sat around all day doing nothing, he would not be able to compete with his more able bodied counterparts.

It's the same these days, no. If a man worked hard at building a shelter for himself and his family, he is more appealing. If he is working towards a successful career, keeping himself in shape, he'd automatically fend off the advances of other men without having to resort to violent physical threats.

The similarity between both examples is security and not money as money didn't exist back then.

There is another point to consider, depending on your occupation. It helps if you rub shoulders with the right people, making yourself visible to these people. How do you do this? By going beyond what you are required to do. A lot of people limit themselves by doing only what is required. They do not go above and beyond. How will your boss know if you can be a manager, if you don't first show that you can by taking up extra responsibility? By knowing the right people, I mean staying away from colleagues who are negative and alienate themselves by stereotyping management, criticising them all the time. You need to mix with the right people and take some risks. It isn't purely about the quality of work you put out. Why do you think you hear people talking about their bosses all the time? Ever heard someone say this," I don't know how my boss got to where he is lah. He doesn't know anything also?"?

I know you're getting a lot of flack for this but I actually see your point and to a large extent, I believe it to be true. Only, I'd changed your last sentence to, "go work harder and make something of yourself". When you use the word, "money" in the manner that you did, it's not hard to see how this may reinforce the thread title.

One thing I've noticed. Instead of gaining some insight into a woman's mind, male posters are by and large, being defensive. I for one believe that superficial things like looks and wealth do matter. They aren't the only components that determine if a person likes you or not, but it doesn't hurt to have either. Sometimes I feel people are pressured into giving the "right" answer instead of the real one.

I've read many comments stating that there is little we can do when our spouse strays and I beg to differ. Keeping in shape reflects one's attitude as well. It shows we aren't lazy and we take care of ourselves. It doesn't only improve our physical health, it improves our mental one as well. When you bring up the issue of wealth, the natural tendency is for people to relate it directly to material wealth, or money in it's physcial form. What's more important is that wealth reflects attitude as well. It shows that a person worked hard to make something of himself, and the wealth is the reward. These words are as evil as some make it out to be, especially when one bothers to put in a little more thought. Too often, people react without thinking.

Unfortunately, I've come to find that life isn't a fairy tale. Whether or not we choose to ignore that economic factors do put strain on a relationship, is up to us. Is it cheap to buy a house, raise a kid, send him to college, etc? The answer is obvious indeed. Can a couple in poverty live happily together forever? I'm not going to spend too much time looking for the answer to that one. Given the choice, I'd rather do what I can to ensure I live happily together with my spouse confortably.

Again, your comments are based on looking at external factors as what they are. When I say looks, you see a strapping young man with a smouldering gaze. I see a well groomed individual who may not be the best looking guy around but puts in care and effort to ensure he looks neat. When I say wealth, you see of a stack of money. I see a man who wants to provide the best for his family, working hard at his job. I choose to focus on the reason a person works towards these external factors, instead of envying them for having them, trying to convince myself that they were lucky, or they must be pricks. I admire the attitude.

Do I believe in love? Of course but I also accept that a relationship can be stronger when you take care of the other more superficial elements of a relationship. I find it hard to believe that given a choice between two people who are exactly alike in terms of their character, we won't even consider the superficial element like looks.

Maybe I am in a relationship for the wrong reasons, I don't ask myself that question. I act on what I think is right, rather than sit around hoping I am. I've made mistakes in the past when it came to relationships and I'm making corrections. I'm not the most successful guy around but I have new found ambition in drive, something I never had during the earlier parts of my career. I've come to realise that for my circumstance to change, I must change.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 3 2009, 05:57 PM

I'm not disagreeing but if you can do something to give yourself and advantage, why not? I was at what was possibly the lowest point of my life some 3 years ago. I had put on a lot of weight and was in a dead end job. Looking back all I did was beat myself up for it, not doing anything to improve my predicament. My girlfriend had left me a year into that and I was unable to start a new relationship for 2 years. Why? Well it could be that I just didn't appeal to anyone. I mean, I was somewhat overweight and I had a job with no real future. The bigger reason however was that I had no confidence in myself. It wasn't that I had no money because heck, I still don't! One day I got out of bed and decided to change my life around. I started getting active with sports again, watched my diet and changed careers. I lost weight and I have much better prospects at my place of work now. I had new found confidence and started dating again. Now, I won't be surprised if people misconstrue this all to be a boast. On the contrary I'm just sharing what I went through. If it can benefit someone, good. If not, then no harm was done.

My point? Although I earn a decent living, I don't have much money because I had just made a career change. Takes awhile to build up some mulah worth mentioning. Suddenly I had no problems with women, not like before. What changed? It wasn't because I had money all of a sudden. It was because of the effort I put into improving myself and my situation. Therefore, I think the thread title is misleading.



Cool.



I liken it to say preparing for a 100 metre dash. You invest some time to get in shape, and you train daily to get the best possible time. Same with the game of life if you ask me. You do what you have to do to best equip yourself. I'm not suggesting that money should be the basis for a relationship, it would be foolish for me to say so. Even if it were, I'd never want it to be the basis for mine.

Here's my point. If two people who were just as nice hit on a girl, the better looking one with more money stands a better chance. It would appear as though I'm stating the obvious if I were to end there, no? Yup. Just to add, what do you think the layman would say had he witnessed that courtship? That the guy with more money, and was better looking won because he is rich and handsome. Therefore, the girl has to be superficial and money minded. No, it could not be because he is genuinely also a nice guy with plenty else to offer. Ah my point; that the thread title, "girls are money minded" is misleading and innacurate. She may have looked beyond the money and looks, and saw a guy with drive, ambition, who takes care of himself and is therefore capable of taking care of her.

Rich friends? I do indeed. In fact, my closest circle of friends are all business owners, which is what spurred me to want a good career. A couple of them I would term as super rich e.g. has a few cars, owns several properties like shopping malls, and various other developments.

I agree with your points.

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Added on October 4, 2009, 3:33 pmI actually know a couple of women who think the way you do. Their ambition in life is to find a rich husband who supports them so they don't have to work another day in their life. In fact, a friend of mine recently got married to such a women. She quit her job right after they got married and I've no idea what she does daily.

From what the rest are saying it seems you equate security to material wealth alone. That's just sad if you ask me but to each his own.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 4 2009, 03:33 PM

Tell you what, I know a good number of women who have been as unfaithful so enough with the stereotyping.

I've lost track of this discussion. It doesn't help that some of the posts are really hard to read and understand.

So which came first again? The nice guy who is rich, or the rich guy who is nice?

Define "rich", and "nice".

If there's one thing I find despicable is the emphasis on the end result, rather then the root of it. So much talk about money, so little on the characteristics and attitude to be a success story.

Now there's the issue of credibility when it comes to giving an opinion. Well let me just say this, you don't necessarily need to be married to understand marriage. Why do people get divorced if they understand the concept of marriage so well? Maybe it's because they don't. Some stay married out of convenience. I know this married couple, mainly because the wife was my ex. Amongst my friends, they have possibly stayed married the longest. Problem is that both have affairs outside every now and then. I don't see much love between them but until there's a big enough reason to part, I don't think they will. So there, here's an example of a married couple but would you take their opinions on marriage seriously?

Herein lies the flaw in your argument. This is an assumption and unless we're working on developing economic theories, we cannot assume that everything is ceteris paribus.

The only way this argument would hold water is if you set the parameters, one of them being that all guys are the same regardless of social standing and wealth.

I think that goes without saying. I mean if you were ask me to pick between two women who were similar in every way except that one was hotter than the other, I'd pick the hotter one of course. What irks me personally is her choice of the word "rich". We aren't looking at two opposite ends of the spectrum, so the term "rich" is relative. One guy is richer than the other, which doesn't mean that the guy who isn't as rich is poor. He just isn't as rich.

This means that if she had a choice of picking between a guy who earns say RM10,000 a month and another who earns RM 15,000, she would go for the latter, all other things being equal. Now once again, if they are exactly the same, why not go for the richer one? However as she herself has mentioned, there is a large grey area. It could mean that the guy who earns RM 10,000 is actually an up and coming success story, a rags to richest story if you like. The guy who earns RM 15,000 may have inherited his father's company and sucks at his work. What am I getting at? The RM 10,000 has the potential to be even more successful in the near future because he works harder. He has already learned the hard way how to climb to the top and even if he falls once, he knows how to get back up there. The latter can't say the same. These are factors I'd consider when talking about grey areas.

I may have missed something as I've not read EVERY post, but saying you'll go out with the richer guy without considering these other factors just shows that a person chooses instant gratification over a delayed one. Often the latter is longer term.

Well it's a positive that you haven't totally sold yourself out to money.

Correct indeed, money (or security as I would rather put it) isn't the only criteria. I've stayed away from this debate for awhile in hope of getting of viewing the arguments from a bigger perspective. In the end it comes down to ones own personal choice. There is no right or wrong here. It's just disturbing to me that you mention money before any other criteria. Fairplay, you did say it wasn't the only criteria but yet, you keep bringing it up. Basically, you are looking for a rich guy who can meet your other needs and not the other way around. The difference is while you're looking for the finished article, some do not mind investing in potential. Personally, I think a person who has potential and has a high chance of reaching it can prove to be more secure in the long run, because they know how to stand on their own two feet.