hmm... i wanna ask something there, these 2 courses, which one of them have the good job prospect in the future?

h...Don't know...but i plan to take CCNA network + Computer science

Definitely you can forsee what the future is coming by...
but to say a few...
Computer Science teaches you the fundamental and traditional techniques.. which means what you learn here will not obsolete that quickly
stuff like logics, algorithm, efficiency, etc etc which can be applied throughout the development of prog language lately...
If programming language is touched perhaps they will teach you a few..
and ofcourse i think you will leanr networking too..but not in depth... so basically its general... and you have a wider job choice

i am not too sure about networking course, but it sounds specific to me.... i hope someone can elaborate on that.. but CS is an excellent choice

From what I can observe in the industry now, more of our partner companies are looking at networking skilled I.T. Pros.

Like what Tm89 says, I do agree, Computer Science let you know more about the basics of the I.T. and the knowledge can be applied throughout your career. As for networking, this is more like a major. Meaning, you can choose to be more tactful in this area.

Today, the I.T. industry is all talking about how to get connected with each other, so in my opinion, having networking skill is really an advantage.

Nice Topic dude..

in my point of view , CS seems to be a wise choice bcaz u'd have wider range of jobs (which also includes Networking related field)


So after u graduate in CS,u can work in Networking related field , then with enough experience u can apply for bigger post in Networking related field.

Companies will look for experience rather than type of degree

Im planning to take CS At UTAR(Cheaper) but im quite worried ever since i heard that CS in Perak Campus is not Accredited(Someone please confirm this)

samliang,

Both of them are WRONG for you. If you LIKE IT and / or Networking, you will spend time learning about them even without taking a course. If you DO NOT LIKE IT / Computer Science / Networking, why do you WASTE your time on things that you do not like??

They will be LOUSY JOB PROSPECT for YOU since you do not like those area and you will do a BAD job.

Dreamer

the problem is i cant even see what is going to happen on me in the future. But, now i am taking foundation in IT, so the problem is after i complete my foundation i dunno which course among the 2 i should take, and i am from ART stream.. anyone can help me out here ??

hahhahaha i'm also same. stuck between choosing either foundation in computer science, or foundation in ICT. samliang, if you sure abt your foundation you can slowly think about your degree/ course later.

so u are enrolling to which college ?? and wat is the difference between foundation in computer science and foundation in SCT ??

and wat is the core subjects for computer science and networking ?

if I were you, I would just get a Computer Science degree. There is no point being so specialised in your Bachelor degree. The reason why so many people have trouble finding a job is that they end up with a qualification that is too specialised, but they don't have the fundamentals.

I'm not going to start on the while Computer Science vs IT debate here, but suffice to say, it is better knowing a little bit of everything rather than a lot of one thing.

pinjam tread a while
UTAR got oni science foundation rite?
got specific course for IT during foundation meh?

i thought cs is physics heavy, and a good result in pre-u physics is a prerequisite?........

is CS physic heavy? sounds fun........

CS is physics heavy? can somebody confirm lol.

i heard a lot of ppl taking CS and graduated.....so, really that hard meh CS?

Even at it's purest form (which does not exist in Malaysia), Computer Science is not really Physics heavy. With the exception of the traditional "pillars" of Computer Science (MIT, UC Berkley, CMU), not many universities need Physics as a pre-requisite for Computer Science.

That said, more universities do recommend some form of Science subject (Biology, Chemistry), as the skills you learn (logical thinking, hypothesis formation, result measurement) do help in contributing to a Computer Science degree. Certainly a grasp of Physics would probably make understanding the theoretical side easier.

But certainly, math is a must.

which IT course require physic? i mean heavy physic, those course which alot of ppl cannot tahan 1?

Anyone took Computer Science here? and i dun have any science background here ... so is it suitable for me ?

"Jack of all trades, master of none" vs "over-specialization leads to extinction" situation.

Usually no, unless your major requires it i.e. CS major in Computational Engineering like in NUS.

How's your discrete math and logic skills?

i am still in foundation le ... any advise here?

CAN ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT CCNA ??
PRICE AND WHERE CAN I STUDY?

i think the best choice is take computer science course n then take networking cert like CCNA....

but i dun have any physics background , computer science course in MMU got related to physics ? now i taking introduction to physics 1 in MMU also wanna cry edi ..

Same goes over here. I hate physics. And i think there is physics subjects in Computer Science in MMU. Thats why im not taking it.

which course study java, SAP and .net? CS got study these?

fit.mmu.edu.my/undergrad/files/Course structure 2008-2009.xls

Pray, where is the physics subjects in MMU's Computer Science Program?

dun have physics in Computer Science, only their foundation have it.

Computer Science is a 100% science field. Just as Haya said, some skills you learnt from Physics can be very useful in your Computer Science education. Although art stream students could enter this course, the science stream students will have more advantages. To know why it is considered a science course, please have a look at this - http://cs.gmu.edu/cne/pjd/PUBS/CACMcols/cacmApr05.pdf .

Btw, the course structure of MMU's CS course is here - http://fit.mmu.edu.my/academic/aca-cs-3y.html . The introductory to Physics is only available in the Foundation in IT. Most science stream students would not have problem with it.

This post has been edited by onimusha_m16: Feb 19 2009, 11:04 PM

anymore opinions?

when u work networking field will hv higher pay for starting
but u need to hv all the certs

there is no physics..CS about learning fundamental of computer, programming and basic networking(OSI layer)

tumpang thread
wanna ask
should i go for Application Programming or System Administration?i now going for programming but then i scared cant handle the 1st sem which is 4 programming subject..i scared i mix up all the languages
but i duno wat system administration about
.any idea?

how much the starting pay for a network specialist?

I'm a comp science grad and currently am working in networking industry.
My comp is an MNC and my job is to provide hardcore tech support to worldwide customers.

I love networking, I have CCNP and other certs. It's true that if you love something nothing can actually prevent u from learning by yourself. But as a matter of fact if you learn something which you will not really use in future it will slow down your growth.

If you see networking as your future then I guess it's better to do an IT networking course, not computer science.
With computer science we learn things like data structure or programming paradigm, which do not AT ALL in use in my current jobs. If I spent the time in learning OSPF BPG IPSec instead of these stuffs when I was an undergraduate, I guess today I have been further than where I currently am.

vertical growth or horizontal growth is a choice. Some ppl know many things but not in depth, some ppl know something but damn good.
i guess the former can b good presales n the latter can b good techie, both r well paid. 5 digits not a problem at all.

choice may depend on situation. for example a system guy knows well about AD, a network guy knows well about router/firewall, a db guy knows well about oracle, what if the comp runs a solution that needs to integrate all these things? single-sign-on requires gateway + AD/LDAP for example, and if network itself is complex and the AD is of black forest..hehe even L3 tech support can screw big time. POC screwed up, sales screwed up, boss screws tech guy, sales screws tech guy, everybody screw tech guys. think twice if u really wanna b tech LOL

have a friend CCIE in voice, vy young, 5 digits pay. Spent so much time in leanring voice stuff n today he's a voice expert. But if you asked him to troubleshoot Exchange i guess he'll surrender.

if u wanna b a high-paid techie, don play warcraft, waste your time only hehe.

ops dunno where im heading to hehe. learning is fun.

if success is easy to achieve, everybody has achieved it
work harder, you will eventually reap it

imho

its not only about prospect dude. you have to see what interests you. no point doing something you hate for the rest of your life.

the problem is dunno how to choose i cant see myself wat i can do in the future ...

base on jobstreet
most of them got starting 3k
but the requirement is quite high
need several certs

computer science is more into hard ware software, webpage design, programming, algebra, calculus,pre calculus, and abitbit of economics.
if u r good in logic, maths and memorize, can go for it.
so far its ok for me.. but i duno how will it be in degree.. study hard la =)

networking is more on demand
inti nilai offer ccna course which is highly on demand n high pay
need more info pm me
i stdy network computing n taking ccna

Folks,

When I started in networking, computer science just get started. You learn everything hands-on. Both PC and computer networks are so expensive that very few people get to play on that. Now, even MIT courses are FREE and online. So, the ONLY question is

Are you MOTIVATED to learn?? Do you love NETWORKING??

Ditto, you could learn computer science and so on.

Pay and so on..

There is a saying in the industry: The bigger that the IRON is, the bigger the pay.

A mainframe programmer will usually get paid more than a PC programmer.

An Unix system administrator will get paid more than a Windows administrator.

The same rule applies to network.

The BIGGER and MORE expensive that the network is, the more that you get paid.

So, what kind of networks that you work on determine how much that you get paid. It may not has to do with how smart you are. It has to do with whether you have the RIGHT kind of exposure.

For example, there are ONLY 2 3G network in Malaysia. There are not many people that work in those 3G network. If you happened to work in this area and someone needs you, you can demand a good pay for you.

Supply versus demand.

Computer science versus Network and so on degree

A good decent degree give you the foundation to go further. But, that is all. If someone has 2 years experience working in 3G network and I need someone to work on 3G network, do I care what kind of degree that a person has?? I may not even care whether a person has a degree to begin with.

A good networking / programmer and so on requires people that ACTUALLY love this area and willing to go through a lot of hands-on stuff. Are you that kind of person?? If you do, you will be hacking around even before talking about taking courses. If you don't, do something else.

http://www.webtorials.com/index.htm

This web site has MANY good networking stuff.

Dreamer

Computer Science and Networking which one focus on more maths ?

As some have mentioned, it is experience that is crucial if you want to work in the Malaysian IT industry. The RM3k salary one would see usually requires people to have 3-5 years of experience in the field.

My stand is still the same: there is no point being so specialised in your bachelor degree. Just do a normal (well, as normal as one can find in Malaysia at least) Computer Science degree, and consider doing a post graduate to specialise in Networking. If could be CCNA/CCNP, it could be a post graduate diploma in network administration.

dreamer101 has a point, but I think the link given is a bit hardcore. It assumes one has a firm foundation in the field and wants to keep up with changes. Its a bit like walking into a primary school and saying "To teach you guys to add and subtract, I'll start with calculus."

no need
cos i no physic in a level

The former.

haya,

Not necessary. Math and science is THE foundation for a person to go further. Networking is a VERY WIDE area. It ALL depends on how far that you want to go.

For example,

A) If you want to do Optical Networking, it will be good that you are STRONG in Physic.

B) How about if you want to do Wireless like 3G, Mobile WiMax, LTE and so on??

We have a joke in networking about the the 10 layers of networking. The TOP 3 layers are Philosophy, Religion, and Politic.

To do networking well, you need to understand human psychology too. Why certain network will do well in Korea versus Japan?? Why online multiplayers game matters in South Korea but it is IRRELEVANT in Japan?? Why expensive hand phones will sell in Asia but has no market in USA?? How does this change the market of mobile application in USA versus Asia?? How does this affect Wireless Network performance??

Networking is a VERY WIDE area. I spent 24 years in this area and I still find a lot of new stuff that I need to learn. I have a BSEE and MSEE. So, my MATH and SCIENCE foundation is STRONGER and it allows me to go further.

Dreamer

so that means Computer Science now doesn't concentrate much on Maths ? how about physics then ?

then how about networking then ???

---

Added on March 9, 2009, 9:38 pmhello anyone ??

This post has been edited by samliang: Mar 9 2009, 09:38 PM

I think CS does have alot of emphasis on math.. Not just limited to binary numbers.. It sometimes gives me headaches (=P) Physics, like someone was saying earlier, helps with the logical thinking and learning the theoretical bits. Networking, some math involved but I think it's mostly logical thinking... I don't quite know how to describe networking.. you must really learn to love Linux (haha as I observed from a friend of mine who's a networking nut) and that.. the learning curve for networking involves alot of restarts, formatting and getting frustrated as to why your settings seem to screw up everything else =P

I took a degree in IT (software & networks major, kinda like a jack of all trades) but in it all I found some parts interested me more than others, so for me I found my love in web development. Networking theory was fun for me but I totally fail in practical lor, haha stuff like assigning addresses and DHCP and all that totally killed me.

And like most people say, it depends on what you're interested in. Like so far what you've studied in foundation, what kinda aspects interest you more? Go with what you like, if not it'd be horrible~

This post has been edited by scy_krylief: Apr 15 2009, 12:16 AM

same dilemma like me..
already apply UPU for major in networking
during diploma, i not have strong skill in programming..
programming just average..C/B result
so in the practical training i try to avoid programming..
i choose networking project..setup LAN networking for whole buildings
setup wireless, setting router/switch, set IP address and etc
at last i got A for my practical training..
so should i go for networking for my degree? need advice here..
nd i know networking also got programming subject..


thanks in advance

If you feel that your area of interest is in networking, then you can go for that. However, here's one very common pitfall among a lot of network engineers in the market. They tend to be so focused on networks and networks alone to the point that they're totally lost at anything else IT related outside of networks. For larger projects, this can make the network team a big pain to deal with, especially when it comes to troubleshooting of issues, and trying to pin down where exactly problems are at, when you get people with different backgrounds working together.

This is not to discourage you, but is to alert you to the common problems among a lot of people doing networking. The trick is to not allow yourself to run into the same problem, and you'll find that this will greatly increase your worth to any projects, and most importantly, future projects as well.

i think it is suitable for me..
during my diploma also, i learn many this that outside of my diploma scope.

so if i further my studies in networking..
i should learn more about IT world rite?

i also have a little bit of confused about this matters..
actually..this october i will having for my diploma..focused on computer engineering..but i am preferring to continue my study in Networking..
So..which university that have offered networking courses in Malaysia..?(either local/private)
The duration and the job prospects..?
It is okay if i continue to other courses..?because actually..the current course that i have taken now is quite difficult for me..
Anyway..comments and suggestions..also opinions are welcomed.

This post has been edited by fisrii: Aug 20 2009, 02:15 PM

if u talk about Cs in IPTa, i believe it is a very 'cold' course, just because students who get out of their 8 choices would be simply given CS courses in any ipta.

What do you means..?

majority of those who fail to secure their desired courses during ipta application would simply be placed into computer science programme at a given ipta.

so what does that imply to computer science? u gotta think urself.

Means that nowadays no student apply for computer science.

Its true that the lecturer in ipta not very good. In UM there are a few good lecturer all got "chased away" from UM. (I was hoping one of that lecturer to teach me in one of the course I will take.) But it still depend on one's talent and hardworking. I got senior now earning 5 digits in Denmark. But mostly go do other things, like sales, which is very normal...

My advice is if you want to do programming and have the money. Go private. As they are more concentrate on practical than theory (that the how it works in ipta, or even whole Malaysia's education system), although some lecturer might concentrate more on practical nowadays in ipta.

Btw, networking is a sub of CS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This post has been edited by Dark Lord: Aug 21 2009, 12:04 PM

Networking is a subset of IT, not CS

huh???

I dunno if its UM problem, but we have Bachelor of Computer Science, majoring Networking

And for us, IT a.k.a. Information Technology is more to Multimedia, Webpage, etc

This post has been edited by Dark Lord: Aug 21 2009, 01:16 PM

I got no idea how the course in UM is structured, but things like media, HTML and so forth is classified under Multimedia, of which is another subset of IT.

The only network related thing that a CS course should contain are the lower levels of networking. Actually, its more towards Data Communications, instead of just being concentrated on just networking alone.

So in a way, I do find it a bit odd that there can be a Networking major, unless what they really mean is Data Communications, as Networking by itself should not be a CS major.

They got take CISCO and play with electronic... Of course they got learn about cable. I never know networking got classified as lower levels and higher levels... lol

Well, there's the 7 OSI levels of networking, of which is part of Data Communications.

It really depend on what you like to do for your life. The paper doesn't matter a lot except you want to be very specialize (Doctor/Lawyer). With a 'Good' degree in any engineering/IT courses (in Malaysia), just mean that you have a good reasoning, logical, problem solving skills.

I graduated in MicroElectronic (IT) focus on chip design, math (I failed fews time on this), networking etc where I should end up in Intel/Agilent.... What happen when I finish my college was I do software development/consulting for ERP solution for client which is totally diff. from what I learn from school.

If you don't like sitting in the office and cracking your head for if-then-else/OO programming, you may want to choose Networking where you need to travel most of time for support and project.

To excel in either field, you need to have very good troubleshooting skills. If not, your senior may solve the problem in 1 hours, you may take a day even you learn the trick from your senior when you start to work.

Malaysia is always short of strong people in Networking and Software development.

Cause most of them went oversea to get better paid already...

This post has been edited by Dark Lord: Aug 22 2009, 10:22 AM

Agree.
Even they stay in Malaysia, all the top companies will grab them after they graduated, and pay them well.
We in small and medium companies will not easy to recruit them.

um this may lari thread a bit... can v take ccna networking right after stpm result... or need a degree in computer science 1st?

HW-12,

You do not even need SPM to take CCNA.

Dreamer

so this ccna is some sort like sap course lar??? just take and can find a job lar

I dunno if you can find a job with just a CCNA cert, but CCNA is not easy.

HW-12,

CCNA is not a course. It is an exam. Yes, you can study and pass it.

<<just take and can find a job lar>>

So what if you can find a job?? If you ONLY know how to pass CCNA exam but you DO NOT KNOW networking, you will not be able to keep the job.

Dark Lord,

<<but CCNA is not easy.>>

How does learning any skill that is worth having EASY?? If it is EASY, anyone can do it. Then, it does not worth that much.

I have a BSEE and MSEE. But, almost anything I learn about networking, I learned it outside of any formal course work / education. I learn it on my own.

Anyone could get a copy of "Computer Networks" by Andrew S. Tanenbaum and start learning. And, if you can even understand more than 10% of what the book is teaching, you are way ahead of many people.

Ditto, anyone can pick up the Douglas Comer's book on TCP/IP and start learning. All the RFCs is on Internet and free. Cisco web site has a ton of materials. It is ALL there. There are people in networking that does not even have a technical degree.

This is ALL about passion, determination, willingness to LEARN.

Dreamer

so the best way to learn networking is???
setting up a network and explore everything inside?

i am totally empty in this networking and programming, just know a bit a bit oni....... hardly have time to study this all.. have to concentrate on my f6 study

just oni can learn during holiday

This post has been edited by HW-12: Sep 12 2009, 04:00 AM

HW-12,

Just do it.

Do you know the networking part of the Window to begin with?? If not, why not??

It started with QUESTIONS.

Dreamer

Wrong. Maths is the prerequisite for any IT course.

CS is harder than IT but if you're interested nothing will be too hard.

Having a science background is an advantage because as most people have already mentioned, it encourages logic thinking, analytical skills etc which is quite important in CS.

This thread dates back in 2009, wow.

I have my Diploma in CS, it does emphasize a bit on math for logic and critical thinking, at least up till Calculus II. I suck at math so much that I am sad when dreamer101 said everything need strong math and science to move forward fast. Still, it is the truth.

I am looking forward to continue my Bachelor degree in networking, more likely Data Communication and Networking, which is the reason why I am here. I am thinking of part time study as I just started working in an IT company for a few months.

What dreamer101 said are truly one of best advice from people who are very experienced. I just started working in an IT company and I could not agree more with dreamer101. You can know a little bit of everything, but I do think specialization is better due to supply and demand thing.

This post kind of insightful, perhaps half insightful but thanks dreamer101, your posts do help a lot. I'm not saying other's posts are not helping, but I'm looking info on networking because I prefer job where I can move around rather than crack my head with OO and yours kind of meet the purpose.

In the end, do what you have passion in, and nothing will be work. Create an artist out of you. Anyway, good luck all of you above, perhaps too late as it has been almost three years. Maybe all of you could update your status, did you chose CS? Perhaps Networking then? Perhaps had started working? I'd be delighted to know, and maybe leave some piece of advice for me

Folks,
Networking can be software intensive, especially when you try to write socket programs or SNA LU 6.2 services to service hundreds of requests in a timely manner, i.e. before clients timeout on a very shot period

Seem like most folks think of networking in terms of setting up hardware and moving about. Happily, there is the software aspect of networking

On top of that, on the software side, networking also involves interprocess communications over the network and this is software centric.

Perhaps I should consider Netcentric course rather than pure network. I could sharpen my network skill on experiences and certs. Some programming is fine, I guess, but .. hmm, idk. I certainly not going to make my current job as a career. Thanks though.