It was mentioned at the Seremban workshop and whether if there are any changes after that, I really don't know.

But Jo Yeo, you have no problem as yours is infact a open roof type compliance with the requirement. You just need to remove some part of the top concrete roof at your entrance hole and you have a open roof type.

Just look at what I scribbled on your piece of paper and the entrance hole look different, right? Anyway, yours is OK and if you are wanting to make it 1GP compliance, allow the first few part of the roofs be removable and that way, you can adjust the airwell opening to compensate for any shortcomings. Remember that there should be a drainage at the lower floor for rain water to flow out of your BH.

[quote=Jo Yeo,Apr 18 2010, 09:03 PM]
WW & Fellow Enthusiasts,

I seek your earnest comments on the DK design.

Why his design is good for agriculture land is that if you look at the drop from the entrance, it is almost impossible for any thief to attend to enter from the entrance hole unlike most of the formal design.
So, you have secure the roof top entrance which most thieves like to enter BH as most of BHs @ Agri secure their doors so well with alarms and multi-metal doors with locks bigger than my fists .....better the prison cell.
Any comment appreciated

I am banana man, yellow outside but white inside and What'a all the fuss about anywhere?

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Added on April 22, 2010, 7:16 pmIf you ask me, I got this feeling long ago since this DG took office; he is full of crazy ideas................all useless like back seat rider safety belt for one. He know that no one is going to follow the Laws esp the rural folks. Those who follow the Law didn't do it because they fear the Law but because they are concerned about their own safety so why not leave to the people to decide on it as most of us are capable to decide for ourselves and those who didn't, they don't even care if you put it as a Law or not so why the fuss about our own safety.....just give advice only lah. We know what we should do without being force to do everything. The Kampung raayat even don't wear safety helmet, no side mirrors, no nothing....and no police or JPJ has taken any action on them. Why create Laws that would fatten the enforcers pocket only. Old Laws still cannot be enforced and why bother create more and more absurd laws that we can't enforce country wide. Don't just follow developed country cos their countries are different from ours and why not compare us to some of the African countries or backward Asia Countries.

Get the raayat to abide to the present Laws first before creating more mess. Small little things please leave them to ourselves to decide or else in future, we maybe force to brush our teeth every morning or else we will go to jail or even cane. Sorry, nothing to do with swiftlet again!!!!!

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Added on April 22, 2010, 8:29 pm[quote=tuckfook,Apr 22 2010, 04:21 PM]
If someone wants dearly to enter into any BH it will be relatively easy. There is no unbreakable BH. Locks, doors, walls etc are all easy to overcome. Show me a design and I'll show you a way of breaking through.

Thieves like to go through from the top because it is the easiest. If they can get up, they can get in and down no problems.

If the BH is built as above with a 10ft. shaft, I doubt if anyone will want to break into it for at least 5 years if not more. It is simply not conducive to the birds, no in an agri. area anyway.

Since you have the advantage of planning for the building/structure why not go maximum size on the roving area. It is well proven that the bigger the roving area is the faster the birds start visiting the lower floors and hopefully stay. Why minimise your chances? Save money on the roving room and end up being part of the 70% statistic!

Styrofoam of 3" or more is used to insulate the roof so that the topmost slab, which is the ceiling of the nesting room, will not heat up. Direct sunlight all day is liable to heat the concrete to 120 deg. C. or more.

The roving room roof slab should not be insulated to promote a gradual change of tempt. between the inside and outside as well as create convection sucking humid air up from floors below. Sucks up the smell as well so the birds visiting are greeted with the smell of an occupied BH.

Side walls are best not insulated with styrofoam as it also prevents moisture from permeating the walls. Moisture permeating the walls actually cools the walls down when it dries up on the outside. The thickness of the wall controls the rate of cooling or heating up. low tempt. fired clay bricks are good for this purpose. The plaster also plays a part, it must be plaster consisting of portland cement and lime(30%) which makes it more porous to moisture.

It you want to prevent heat from going in and the cool air from going out, as in an air conditioned room or freezer etc. then by all means styrofoam all around.

You'll find successful designs in Dr. Chris' forum.



If I am going to make a BH @ agriculture land and if I get hold of a nice piece of land, I will surely ensure that my BH will be an airwell type with big airwell to serve as roving area but the design will be diffferent from any that you have seen.


I will try Yeo's Styrofoam method for the roof to isolate the heat from the sun as I find that this has been the most difficult thing to do in all BHs that I visited. I have tried using Styrofoam above ceiling and it's work and the birds stayed. Since Styrofoam can be place in concrete roof, why not since it isolate heat and cold and it is waterproof, too. I have intention to make a roof garden on the roof to keep the heat off the BH but since Yeo mentioned about the Styrofoam, it's Styrofoam for me. Styrofoam has been proven to OK with the birds and that's important to me. Styrofoam maybe use where there is a requirement only esp. the roof area. Air condition and freezer are different entirely as both are taking away moisture and will be too dry. The birds will freeze to death. Here, we have V-holes and humidifiers, like a controlled environment, I would say.

I never like water permeating into the walls as it create wetness. My opinions of a good BH is that the place must be high humidity but never wet cos wetness cause fungus and dirty nests. Not hot but warm and with both in it, you will have a good conditions for swiftlets to breed as the eggs require warm and high humidity to survive. Coldness is worst of all and even adult birds will die if your BH get too cold at night like in agriculture land and that why I mentions that never too many V holes in your agriculture BHs. I am applying my knowledge from town Bhs for agriculture Bh and I think what work for the town will also work for Agri BH.

My opinions in the matter concerned and I didn't read or have seen Dr.Chris's book and maybe someone may enlighten me on the subject concerned.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 22 2010, 08:41 PM

20,000 MADE IN CHINA Memory Stick valued at USD20 each totalled approximately RM1,360,000.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The MB should has taken me along and with my contact in China, I think less than Rm10 and with tha quantity, more discount with factory price inprinted with "With Best Compliment From MB of TRG.". Wouldn't that be nicer.

Really, I didn't know that they were going to China on Swiftlets matter or otherwise, I would have join........At least this MB want to learn more about swiftlets and EBN market in China. Hope that he means well and not to follow blindly to those nonsense on how to move all swiftlets out of town cos there is no way to move the swiftlets out and by doing so will just destroy the industry and need to start from square one.....What's a waste then.

Have spoken to Dato Tok of the PERSATUAN PEDAGANG SARANG BURUNG NEGERI TERENGGANU, MALAYSIA who is the VP of the federation of BN Merchants of Malaysia and this is what he has to say about the matter.

1. The MB has been mislead by some persons that the birds can be move to ECO parks which are going to be set up in Terengganu but Dato Tok told me that he has explained to the MB and the MB understand it now.....
2. Someone in the group that accompanying MB to China must has been the culprit.
3. So, Trg Town BHs still safe from harm. Alhamduellah.

He maybe a friends of MB but MB do has many friends and advisers, even closer and how to tell him not to listen to his other friends/advisers. Everyone make mistake and maybe we do it here, too. The most importance of all is that the MB hasn't directed his men to take actions against the BHs in town and that's itself a blessing.

The Dato was a past strong state politician and he is using his past influence to convince the MB which you and me cannot so we need to appreciate all his help. If we require his help or assistance again, he will help but as gentlemen, we need to request politely cos he doesn't own us a dime and he is doing it for us. They elect him also due to the facts that he can help but we didn't or did we?????

I was there before as the President of my Association and gave up due to unsatisfactory commitment from the members.....as we appointed our leaders, they have the obligation to lead, the members also have the duty to obey otherwise who want to lead when the team does not give full backing to its leaders. As leaders understand, all goods works done are forgotten, just one bad mistake will have have his hide.

If Dato is reading, I wish to convey my appreciations for all that he has done and hope that he can ensure that BHs remain in town forever at national level. Dato is also getting old cos he forget to give me a copy of the draft copy even after a fewl reminders.....biasa dengan orang tua lah, jangan marah marah.

Did heard the same thing before but only thru words of mouth like what we read in Newspapers; are they all the truth cos alot are rubbish. As long as the person can provide us and support us in our battle, he is good man even though he maybe formally a criminal, am I right cos I maybe wrong........ . He has come to our assistance when we need it and has positive feedback whenever we asked, so to our BHs, he is our friend. White or Black, as long as he catches rats, he is a good cat.

Couldn't care less for any horrific titles, like I once said to my friends, give me the Tun, I will screw his face if he is wrong. This is for discussion only and hopefully, I didn't offend anyone by my straight taking.

On swiftlet matter, I guess it's about harvesting time and hope the price still maintain the same. The buyers will definitely try force price down due to the large supply coming....beware.

Thanks Chank, I know what to do if they destroy my BH cos I shall bring them to court but hope that there will be fair justice @ court as " Kuan " has no 2 mouths!!!!

Secondly, I like your suggestion that to print the destruction of the BHs @ Mukah and send them to those who proposed to the GOVT to demolish/ dismantle / move/ ban Town shop Sanctuary and those who Help/Suggest to the govt to remind them that what would happen in case the Govt destroy BHs @ towns and it will be thousands times worst than what happened @ Mukah.

Lastly, you have shown them proof that heritage buildings need maintenance and without income from the BH, the old buildings will soon give way to new buildings cos the old buildings will collapse in no time.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 25 2010, 06:57 PM

Due to frequent breaking, we now have hugh thick metal doors but what I see is that their hinges remain small and why are the hinges place outside and not inside??

Please advice

For safety from gas cutter, how about metal sandwich door with either concrete or plywood in between. Would that make the door more secure than just thick metal door as plywood or concrete prevent the penetration from the oxyacetylene torch.

My layman suggestion to the problem on safety.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 26 2010, 05:35 PM

Just back from the KL AGM of the FED and this is what I hear and I can understand.

So far so good but for how long from my opinion, also depend on all of BHs cooperation to minimise negative public opinion on our industry. The Health Department is the obstacle to the GP as they want to be involved but the problem has been settled between the ministers involved according to what I heard and if I heard correctly but my ears not so good lah.

So far, some of us are really getting to our nerve and not only the public complaints, so of us BH owners also complaint so the best action it to ensure that those black sheep of our family do toe the line.

As for the GP, everybody is keen to know as it affect our future but the draft will remain a confidential document until the cabinet view and approval have taken into consideration. Remember that we are not alone but we do have many enemies which will like to see our elimination and destruction @ towns. So, the best is to remain calm and the Fed Asso. Boss, Dato Beh has personally ensure me that he was in all the meetings and dialogs concerning the industry and he is happy that so far so good. He request that all must cooperate so that there shall be no changes in the draft as many of our enemies will like to see. Anyway, to be frank to all here that I believe to there need to be a win win solution to the BHs @ town and we as the BH owners in town will definately need to compromised but the only factor cannot be compromised is the moving the BHs from towns and this cannot be compromised!!!!!!! And what I heard from President Dato Beh and his team believe in it, too.

Also do not spread rumour about the industry as you will only cause alot of pain and sleepless nights for many of us who depend on the industry for income. Maybe, some have secret agenda for it but do it else way as I believe this site is best reserve for the swiftlets matter and not for political mileage, discrimination and dirty cleaning.

I hope that you all agreed with me on the matter as I maybe small but united, we are a big force to reckon with. Ishaallah, we will survive and live thru the storm.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 2 2010, 12:59 PM

Just my humble suggestion is that whatever or whenever you have questions, best direct to the person and if the question is about GP, get your local Association President to phone up either Dato Beh or any of his committee members. I believe that they shall be most willingly answer any question provided that it is asked politely like I did at the AGM. By the way, each state has representative with the Fed, ask him....

I wasn't the key officers of my Association presently but I went to ask some questions and to see for myself if the Fed know what's happening to this industry. Happily, they do and I believe they may not want to publicize publicly as this will only invite unnecessary reaction or back lashes from the opposition group.

As we do know that Dato Beh or Mr.John do have many BHs in Towns including also in sensitive areas like Malacca and surely, they are also looking after their own interests as well as ours, too...... that's my opinion but I maybe wrong and please do correct me if I am.

Again, I would say that all can be negotiated or compromised but moving out presently or in the future is totally out of the question, agreed???

As for the Perhilitan tabled Bill, I need to seek more clarifications from them to answer......maybe someone here did asked and got the answer???

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Added on May 3, 2010, 3:42 pm[quote=Cergau,May 2 2010, 07:00 PM]
Unc WW,
Thanks for the feedback frm yr participation in the Fed AGM.
Fed - 1GP


Dear Cergau,

I have already PM you on your requirements and if you require anymore assistance, just PM me again...................as for the 1GP, at present all are guessing work only and best if have solid documents to support but since it is not official yet; why not be patient and wait alittle longer as Dato President has assured me that moving out of the town isn't negotiable...... and hope that he did his homework well for his own sake and our's as well.

Above are only my own opinion and view on the sensitive issue. If anyone has real news either good or bad, post here to share but never just angin news lah, nanti sakit hati semua lagi boleh juga mati lah.......tambah kena makan pill tidur malam malam.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 3 2010, 03:56 PM

Well, I am one and proudly say that I am with Persatuan Pengusaha Burung Walit Daerah Kemaman, Terengganu which is a member for the Persekutuan Persatuan Pedangan Sarang Burung Malaysia with my recommendation as I feel that we need to be informed and be heard at National level.

I started the Association to ensure that the Birds industry be protected by the united strength of the hundreds BH owners in the town and only under an Association can we be heard, loud and clear by the authorities or otherwise, one by one, we will be teared apart. So far, we have been successful but owners seem to neglect their obligations to follow directives and advices from the Association as everything seem calm. That's what wrong with us human beings and that's why we fail as we are only united when we are facing trouble....sometime it may be too late.

I believe many here are also members of their respective local swiftlets Associations and prefer not to tell and we all understand...... If we really care for the future of the swiftlets @ towns, it's better for your local Associations to join the National Association to show support and unity. If we think that the National President and his team are not doing well, then we may remove them thru election and even call for a EGM if necessary and that's democracy. One member Association 3 votes and the office bearers serve for 2 years. Local matters, local team to handle and only invite National Team to help if needed and leave national matters to the National team which may include our representatives, too.

Above are my own views and suggestions for consideration.

We all need to remember that we are all friends here and not enemy; all having the same goal and aim but only different opinions or idea on how to fight our battle or get to our destination, Everyone who post here are appreciated by all but then we have differences so just let it be as the readers are smart enough to decide which it the best way toward our goal, Swiftlets Sanctuaries Be Allowed amd prosperous with the blessing of the Government.

The Government need not provide financial support but infrastructure and most importance is the moral support should be provided if the PM's ambition to make Malaysia a Top Producer of EBN be successful instead of just a dream. If the Government really want to support the new industry, we need positive actions and not just words.

Without such assurance from the authority, we will have no confidence to push further and faster and our EBN industry will lack behind and fall further and further. Now, we are No.3 and in no time, we will be No.4 and I don't need a fortune teller to forcast our future.

Many have aked about the Federal Swiftlets Association, who and what have they done?

Their official Address is as follow:

Por Lee Tee
Executive Secretary
Persekutuan Persatuan Pedagang Sarang Burung Malaysia
C/O Por Ooi & Co. Chartered Accountants
140, Jalan Kelah Cinta Sayang, Taman Ria Jaya,
08000 Sungei Petani, Kedah.
Tel:04-7335759/04-4414033
Fax: 04-7331592/04-4416676

Email: sp@porooi.com.my

You may want to forward your questions to the Fed. Association and hope that you get your answer to your satisfaction.

Good question and suggestion........... as far as I was told is that before the office is in KL and since the Executive Secretary is from Kedah and he has 2 of his staffs attending to the swiftlets matter for the Association, it is best in the interest of the Association to move there. If more answers are needed, it's best that you get them from the Executive Secretary or Mr. President himself, I presume i.e from the horse's mouth. The above reason is what I get from the AGM held recently. I wonder if any of the Committee members of the Fed is with us for at least, he can answer all the question pertaining the Association and swiftlets matter here and then, everyone can have a good night sleep.

Hackwire, Why till now you haven't got a BH and if you have done so, you will surely and truly be one of us, a Swiftlets Sanctuary Protector and you will be like Cergau cos until you are one of us and truly feel like us, I really don't know where you are standing...........pardon me for being frank.

Do go, buy or build one and you will understand our true feelings, sentiments and love for the lovable swiftlets....otherwise, I really don't believe you truly understand what we are all about........if only we, human being can be like the swiftlets, giving without asking for any return, then the world will surely and really be a better place to live in and only paradise can only be a comparison.

It is and often those seeking publicity and saying something that they know nothing about.......sad story but true those Da**** stupid D** barking at wrong tree. He should read and understand that swiftlets are already in town long long ago and that only new BHs need birds call to invite the birds to visit the building but if the birds don't like what they see, they just fly away. Looking at the hugh increment of swiftlets will know that we are infact protectors of swiftlets and our birdhouses are sanctuaries for the town's swiftlets.......a new specie and infact, more and more sub species as we talk.

The birds are and will stay at town anyway and just which BHs is better and the bird calls invite them to see for themselves. It is just like you are opening a new hotel and calling out to customers to visit your hotel just to see for themselves, otherwise, the birds don't know that your building is a bird sanctuary; they just may bypass your BH and stay next door BH. If it's a town swiftlet, it will remain a town swiftlets until death and you can remove the tweeters, you can remove the planks, they still will stay by building their nests on the wall and ceiling top. Why make life miserable for the birds and you called yourself, SAM President. I wish that I can tell the So called SAM President right in his face to read well before speaking out otherwise, he may look and sound like a Fool...........

Did called up the Fed. Swiftlet Boss yesterday and I think he doesn't know about the Wildlife Act bill being tabled @ Parliament except what he has read in the newspaper. All the while he was taking are about GP at the AGM.

Thanks for the infos here and I did email him the websiteas requested by him and will check up with him later and if any news will be posted for all concerned.

So you see, I was telling you all to forward to the person concerned if you have questions cos' it concerns our future....As it' wasn't mentioned has many possibilities.

1. It was taken out from the list before it was tabled at Parliament due to objection.
2. It wasn't in the Bill at all in the first place.


Anyway, to be on the safer side, why not advice your state representatives to ask the Fed President to seek that the phase " does not include AF" in the Bill tabled at Parliament,. This way,, we can be assured that AF is not affected in any way by the Bill.

Just looking at the Bill is really scary cos it give too much power to the Perhilitan. It is like giving Perhilitan a "007" license to seek, kill and destroy.

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Added on May 8, 2010, 4:32 pmGood News......The Fed. Asso. Boss is calling for an Emergency Meeting on the matter concerned and that's a positive sign that the Fed. Asso Boss is concerned.

Will keep the forum updated on the matter...... when I get the latest news.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 8 2010, 04:32 PM