Just tell how to prevent the sound from coming out of a window type of entrance cos even the inside sound will be disturbing and annoying to others.

If you are @ Seremban, you will understand that the Local Authorities groups is 100% against the BH @ towns and no way that the open window can solve the problem of sound even if you are not playing birds music for if your BH has thousands of birds, habis lah for those who are staying behind your BH.

1.If you have been into successful BH having thousands of birds, you will understand how noisy it is.........
2. We well know for the facts that the birds do shit at entrance and open window will cause shit to fall on the floor below and some poor guy's heads.
3. Wind will cause the smell and the dirt to scatter around the area and no way you can prevent it from happening.
4. If you have been running a local swiftlets Association, you will understand how difficult to solve complaints with sound pollution from open window type..........

Once, I told the Local Authorities to let us to self manage BHs in the town and in less than a year, I gave up trying......and quit!!!! Majlis receive hundreds of complaints and one even told me that the YTP assured him that the whole town wil be rid of BHs if he has the say and that's very soon..........

Just for your understanding of BH,

1.With open ceiling type
a. All sound from the BH are diverted toward the sky and I even ensured the PBT group @ Seremban that even standing next to the BH, we will not hear any sound in 10K birds house as all the sound are shut off/filtered by the doors and the rest of the sound in the sky. You can only hear the sound once you are in the BH. This cannot be done with open window type.

2. All dirts and smell are enclosed and that there are no active wind inside the birdhouse so the dust and smell do not cause any problem to your neighbours unless your staircase is not properly cleaned. What I recommend is that you have air tight type of door ( like your fridge's door) to keep pollution in.

3. Best if we use the rear door to service the BH if we do have one and it will create lesser complaints which we do not want and anyway, back lane is never clean nor fresh.

4. Any shit or dirt found @ entrance will sooner or later drop into the BH and will not affect the neighbours and the good thing is that what we don't see, we don't complaint. If you do have a fish pond there, it will not be wasted, guano is good fish food. How many of us really look at the back of the restaurants that we eat and if we did, we would not go there again. They even hang their ducks and chickens to dry by the smelly drain.

5. I love to have a fish pool infront of the entrance as it will act as a filter for the dirt and smell as anything over the pond will drop into the pool to be eaten by the fishes and some fishes can grow to a kilo or two. Alas, this wasn't allow with the GP and I hope that they will consider if the pool is outside the BH as it is good for the environment as it act well as a filter and a buffer zone before the air reaches outside.....plus you can do your cleaning and bathing in the pool before going out of the BH.

Above are what I have done and experience and no lie. As always, my own personal comments on the matter only.

As I see it:

Let me tell you why just one entrance, just like wife, the more, the more difficult to manage,,,hahahaha

1. 2 holes, sini masuk, sana keluar and air turbulence and other disturbances are bad for new BH as there is not safety feeling. If you make more than one hole in case you fail with the one hole you make, sealed off on ehole first and if that hole is not suitable due to reason like light, wind or conditions, then close it up and open the other one.

2. Case history, I have been to a failed BH with 3 openings and the only nests found were in the utmost interior of the BH after the 3 holes meaning that the 3 holes are just for the birds to play in and out and do not serve the purpose for the bird to breed which what we are aiming for. So, I told him to use only the best one and close up the rest. Now, all the rest of the building is used by the birds to nest.

Sometime, because we are not contractor so we make more than we required as back up like back up entrance openings in case of failure without having to endure more financial payment and time plus nowaday, it's impossible to get workers to do little job. My little believe in the art and science of BH's building.

Just found out that someone did patent methods of swifltets farming and maybe, someone may just patent BH designs and method and then all of us may need to pay for right to use the patents...mmmm

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7661391.html

Solution to our BHs' problems with the authorities

1. Convince the person in charge to venture into this industry and he will understand why we are so protective of the birds. You need to be in the industry to fully admire and appreciate the beauty of being a provider of sanctuaries for these wonderful birds which never demand but give.........

2. May it be MBs, YTPS, YABs or Ketua Kampung, get them into the industry and they surely and truly be pro swiftlet for the rest of their life.
I believe that that's what happened in neighbouring countries that the authorities are 100% behind the industry. Am I right?

3. A case history: We once had a reporter who was anti-BH and harassed us thru newspaper constantly until he become one of us and now, he is a key officer of our Association taking a very active role in protecting the interest of swiftlets in town.

4. WOW: Swiftlets Santuaries providers is just like asking someone to believe in GOD and only if he give himself a chance, he will never believe in GOD. Once he step into GOD's place and open his heart, he forever be sincere and true to GOD............and swiftlets are truly GOD's send Bird of wealth.

AMEN.....and by the away, I am not a Christian......

Let me give my point of views in the matter of why nowaday, the industry seem to be slower down and that the birds population doesn't seem to increase.

1. The very fact that human became too greedy is when the goodness end....like in Indo, they are harvesting birdnests so fast that they never give the birds chances to reproduce and old birds do die of old age, diseases and other reasons. Surely, they are facing a decline in the harvesting of nests...........I have this feeling long ago if the Indo don't change their way of management and so will we to share the same faith as own neighbouring country. My BHs and my friends who follow my way of providing safe sanctuaries for the swiftlets are always on the increment of nests every year.

2. Due to the climate changes, lack of insects have cause a delay of breeding cycle in the bird only temporary and shall back to normal very soon.

3. Demand exceed supply is one of the main factors causing the present situation of not enough supply of the nests as China being the biggest market for the nests is growing too fast for the production of the nests and having said so, the buyers are paying high prices for the 1 finger or 2 fingers nest thus making the situation even worst.

4. Our government didn't help either by creating difficulties and problems to the industry causing uncertainty of future direction. With such uncertainty of future development, the BH owners will try to maximize income thus causing a no increase of new fledged birds....so a zero increment of number of birds.......possible a reduction due to death of birds.

5. Having a friendly GP will ensure the proper growth of the industry and increment of at least of 3 folds every years putting our export very soon at par with palm oil or any industry.
6. This industry still has hugh potential if manage and nurture well and if the conditions and climate allowed, Ishaallah, we will be successful.

As always, above are all my personal view on the swiftlets past, present and future.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 9 2010, 12:32 PM

Swiftlets are free birds and keeping them in captivity isn't going to solve any problem, you mark my words for it and those who try to do god's work will fail miserable.

Swiftlets come and go as they please and clearing the town BHs and moving to Eco isn't going to solve anything and we will lose all that have build up over the years and back to zero............and then, maybe we wouldn't be so lucky again cos the birds may decide that Malaysia was a wrong choice of residence and migrate to our neighbours like Laos, Thailand and Vietnam. Mind you, the swiftlet can really fly for 1000 miles at one time and the record show that they rest, sleep and eat in the sky......and they need our BHs to reproduce provided that our BHs are safe which our towns can provide.

To share is to learn.

EBN buyers are at door steps wanting to buy EBN but we are not going to harvest nest no matter what the price even the temptation is there as they are offering quite high a price. We will allow the chick to fledged, then we harvest cos we will be assured of min. 25% increment next time around. Seeing all those big white nests up there are really a temptation to pluck but a promise to the swiftlets is a promise that I will uphold and I never allow my birds to suffer nor mourn the losses of their offspring..... even if they take swifltets off the list of protected species.

Come May, we shall have plentiful at our dinning table........WW .......Wine and Women....Opp so sorry...just joking lah so don't feel offended my pretty ladies.



pssss...I have posted over 500 in 2 years and all here and I must have nothing better to do but loiter here...........honestly, I read my emails and most of the time, here. Must get me some better thing to do......or else bird feathers will start growing out from my buttock....and hopefully, birdnests too hahaha

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 11 2010, 05:33 PM

Let just say that the best method to harvest is 3 times a years thus enable the birds to fully reproduce themselve and ensure of a good future for your BH if you are on the right track...providing that you are doing all right and leave the rest to GOD and his swiftlets. Remember that I am never the same wave length as the rest of oldies because I speak from what I believe and not from books of wisdom (Swiftlets). I believe in myself but I do like to read others opinion and wisdom on swiftlets if given a chance and I will implement or at least try theirs if I think that there are logic behind it, otherwise, I call them liar or bluff straight at their faces....... in any professional seminars or at lectures, I don't care; a few consultants hate me for that cos I criticized them without consideration even at seminars cos I was angry that they make us feel like fool and stupid!!!!! I am that type of guy and my lady(wife) always tell me to refrain from doing so as on of these days, someone may just put a bullet in me. I believe that we need to enjoy life and it don't matter how long we live.........don't follow me cos I always pray for all friends here to live to over a hundred.



Coming back to swifltets, my beloved topic. I like to do selective harvesting if I can and these can only be done if you are very free and best if live very close to your BH. Case history, I went up to the BHs and said hello to my precious birds, put back any fallen chicks, did maintenance and repairs and then harvested those nests that birds have fledged. In those way, I had nest all year round and even during monsoon time although during such time, many young chicks died but more did suvive thru monsoon. I never believe that bird's brain are stupid cos the birds will soon recognize you as a friend and won't bother to fly out. After harvesting, a good bath in the pool and feeding the fishes in the pool at the same time...............you all must be getting bored....sori, sori lah.

Increment of bird nests, everybody will like a direct answer but then, there is no such one answer cos it all depend on how you manage your BH, your locations, the weather,time of the year, your neighboring BH owners ( Santuaries providers) or total harvesters and the food supply. Every speaker can give figures, the chart and estimated growth of your BH if you engage them to be your consultant but if that's the truth, he will not be wasting his time giving seminars but instate building BHs after BHs. This is not Oil Palm, Rubber, shepp or cattle farming for this is the industry beyond human control but with proper setup, correct art and sciences, one can assist in ensuring better success and growth than not having it. Like I said it before, sometime when you least expected, your increment for that few months is 100%, Ishaallah, it may happen!!!!!!!

Bye, West Wing's birds story next time hahaha

More than 50 years ago, here in some wooden shops housed many swiftlets and my friend is one of those people having swiftlets as next room mate.......one room was practically full with nests and having living with swiftlets for over 25 years until those wooden shoplots burned during the large fire, he assured me that swiftlets shits are harmless as he is still very healthy and strong. Mind you, he still not in BH industry since the wooden shoplots got burned down by firework during one Chinese New Year celebration.

And for that reason, I can be assured that swiftlets are harmless to human as my friend live to tell his story and he is 54...........

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 15 2010, 08:55 PM

In my personal opinion, sometime when we already knew that the govt. do not allow it, why go and do it?

The followings are some of those we already knew from years ago that the govt. do not allow.
1. No food business is allow under the floor use for swiftlets.
2. The Ground Floor is meant for business and not for the birds so that all shops will still be opened for business.

Many have converted the ground floors for BH and many have food shop under but I didn't and I hope that the government will approve of these.

When we started BHs years ago, nobody complained of it as the birds came naturally. When the govt. approved and supported it, we built more and more and now what is going to happened.

Then, years ago, we have already stay clear of confrontation with the local government.......

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 17 2010, 05:18 PM

We here, including me, are only taking our rights and we forget others, too have rights. Aren't we selfish if we are only concern what we can and should have but didn't care what other Malaysian want......a compromised solution must be found as we all know that we, swiftlets BH owners are less than 1% of the population and we are taking as if we are GOD. Personally, I have more to lose than many of readers here because I have all my BHs in towns and I tried hard, God know that I do try to look from both directions and angles to justify our existence in towns. Only with the blessing of all are we be able to stay in towns.

If we are to allow the Ground Floors be converted to BHs, the whole town will be practical dead.......as the birds prefer the lower floor.... I will be the first one to convert mine even if you are paying me Rm4K monthly. Then, if you are going to get the authority to allow those not letting out to allow BH activities; where are the justification that he be allowed and not me and what if I chase away all my tenants for a year and will that justified me to be allowed for such BH activities.

If we are aiming to have all our ways, we end up having to move out and we are playing into the hand of the ECO men.

When we demand our rights, others, too demand their rights and do you really think that we will win?????? I bet 10 t0 1 that we lose if we continue to fight for every inch of our demands. The only way we can stay is to see how best we can be to be fair to others and hope that they understand our concerns and situations..........compromised is the solution.

Sometime, the truth is often hard to swallow and I consider myself very lucky that we have a understanding and supporting PM or otherwise, we are all now goner............and also, our oil are limited and also we cannot depend other products. If we push the Government too harsh; with a stroke of the pen, I will be goner but I don't you all.

Above, are my personal feelings and understanding on the matter concerned.

My English must be poor for when I mean "Personal Opinion" is refer to what I believe and I maybe wrong. To speak out and said that you represent all, you are just kidding yourself cos' we are all grown up and do have our own belief and opinion and all matter and that's why 3 Chinese men sitting together always quarrel but 10 Koreans can have one mind. They are born to follow and we Chinese are born to be independent..

One proverb sound something like this, put a chinese in dessert, he will live and put a chinese in the sea, the shark will be eaten. That's the goodness in us and it's also a bad side of it as we can never come to a unanimous consensus in all we do. Just look at MCA now and any other Chinese based Association............unless, we put a gun on his head.

Again, my opinion to share.......no offence. Sorry.........as this is not any thing concerning swiftlets. Price of EBN is very high cos even corner can get you Rm4K.

Today is the saddest day in my life and it si not because we have different opinions on matter concerning 1GP cos what I believe is only if we don't compromised, we will never have a GP that satisfied everyone but I am sad by the remarks made by Ben on the matter concerning of dead chicks and broken eggs are good for the increment of birds.

1. HK is a Muslim but for all Buddhist, I know that if we allow the thief to kill the chicks and destroyed the eggs, we are no better than the thief himself. HK speak the truth cos by killing the chicks and destroying the eggs, it may increase the birds in the BH temporary but it may shorten our life or are we destine to go to hell............by Buddha teaching if I am correct but I am not a expert in Buddha's teaching or Buddhism.

2. By not killing any chicks or eggs destroyed, I too, have huge increment of nests........ If the thieve come every 2 months, you will or you think that you are smarter and remove all nests in 45 days and leaving nothing for the thieves. How clever you are or you think that you are; in a few years time, you will slowly notice growth of your BH is not as efficient as your neighbor who harvest 3 times a year.
3. This is proven fact as my neighbor's removed all nests due to constant harassment by the thieves and now his 5th. years BH is about 1 K nests and my 3rd. years BH has over 2K nests. F**K so called HK if he think that he know all about swiftlets preservation and management.
4. We all know that by playing distress sound of chicks will bring in alot of curious swiftlets and so will that of rats. By virtual of of that, dying chicks and smell of broken eggs will also bring in swiftlets as in some animals. That's why many of what we get from swiftlets perfume are derived from it.
5. That's what I can offer for the time being as I believe many in the trade are now for the money only and care nothing for the swiftlets and if by killing a swiftlet will bring them cash, many here will.

HK! please remember that swiftlets are also birds of Allah and unlike goats and chicken, they are not for meant for dinner table and even goats, you must recite the verses.......

With that, I beg you all farewell and may all my wrongs be forgiven.

In Chinese traditional medicine, bird's nest is recommended for a dry, heaty, chronic cough with blood stained phlegm for hundreds of years .......and recently, Japanese researchers found that extracts from EBN contain anti flu properties ....now, who dare say that BHs may cause the spread of flu virus and that guy who said it must be sick in the head!!!!!!!

Maybe...just maybe by just staying close to one BH may make you immune to all Flu Virus including H1n1 virus too.

So, happy staying close to one or better take a birdnest a day, keep the flu away and be protected against H1N1!!!!!!!!

ps. someone must do research in swiftlet's shit and may one day found to be effective for curing cancer or some illness.........cause if it's no harm to human being, it's must be something good and it's for us to find out.

Something nice to share and no comment on other postings.

As I see it………………… Are we haram, are we illegal or are we afraid of the truth?

When we discuss here, why should we afraid of others listening as this forum is suppose for all to read and understand whether if it’s good or bad as we believe in the truth and if we think we need to hide facts from the rest of the population, then we are no better than the rest but I believe that providing swiftlets sanctuaries are good much more than the bad and we shouldn’t hide the facts that there are some devils and selfish guys among us creating problems and spreading wrong information to the public. What we want is public awareness and understandings of what we are doing and in the end, we all can stand tall as we are proud to be swiftlets sanctuaries providers

By hiding it the bad side and preaching only the good, we are infact telling others that we are biased against others, but we aren’t because what we are spreading are the truths, nothing but the truths about this industry. For that, I feel no shame to question ourself and to remind ourself that we do have obligations toward the rest of the raayat to know the truths ……and they are no fool…………. Or do we want them to feel like one.
All these time, we have been telling all the advantages of having Birdhouses, but we also need to tell them the bad side of having BHs as we have nothing to hide or should we as this is not a secret or something one cannot find out……it’s either now or later only.

The advantages of having BHs are many times and so what are we afraid of others knowing the true facts; all the correct facts of swiftlets sanctuaries....the goods with the bad.

Personally, I will appreciate if the truth be spoken and let the people and government decide and as a swiftlets sanctuaries providers, I have nothing to hide or fear……..even if the Devil is watching cos I know that the Angel is watching over me.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Mar 31 2010, 02:44 PM

I have all my BHs @ towns and I have all to lose and yet I believe that I still prefer to build my BHs in town. What are we afraid or have we anything to hide? I didn't or do you have which I think not so. What's bad about the industry are those who have hidden agenda behind and try to create unrest and uneasiness. All problems associating with BHs in town can be solved.

Swiftlets are beautiful creatures created by God to serve us. They don't demand, they come freely and they are peaceful and carry no diseases.........infact, their nests can cure many illness that attack the lung and asthma is one of illness that birdnest do help alot.

So safe that I have been in the BH industry for so many years and I never use a worker to do my harvesting, maintenance or cleaning of BHs as I am scared that workers may see the security and structure weakness in my BHs and steal my nests. I never felt sick and not even a cold and haven't been to the doctor for over 10 years until I got that stupid abscess and that crazy specialist to put a 12 inches by 4 deep cut in me to remove the abscess............leaving me high and dry for over one month.

I never use any mask nor any shoes in the BHs as I feel safe with the swiftlets and I still healthy although I have laid in hospital for over a month having nothing to do with my health or staying in BHs.

Give me better reason to move to agriculture land and I will do it but nothing can beat a town BH and it's safe for the human and the birds as well. To clear the town of swiftlets, then it shall be more appropriate to clear all sparrows, pigeons, all domesticated birds and animals because they are more dangerous and they do carry diseases that are harmful to human being and may cause death but never the swiftlets.

If swiftlets are harmful, I shall be the first to close my BHs; my life is too important and I haven't many 10 years left!!!!!

So, any readers who need more true and correct information on swiftlets can always pm me and I always happy to help as anyone in the buz of caring for the swiftlets is my friend.

One day....maybe one day, I may just start a BH @ agriculture land but not until I solve the problem of perfecting the security for the BH@agriculture land, the thought of the crying of the dying chicks frighten and chilled my soul.

Jokingly, don't tell me to stay with the birds in agriculture land as my life is too precious and I may one day end up without my head or just bitten by a snake....hahahaha

---

Added on April 1, 2010, 6:58 pmYes, So sorry that I forget the forum is for the discussion of swiftlets ranching as they called it.............will not make the same silly mistake of going out of the Forum's topic.

Haven't you see alot of new birds recently in the sky and they are not fledged birds but new birds seeking new place to build nests. It's not harvesting time even the present high market price.

So, happy advertising your BH for the new home makers and may your BH be prosperous and plentiful.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 1 2010, 06:58 PM

This shall be my last comment on the issue of 1GP as I rather not have misunderstanding among us as we are all in the same boat. Infighting between friends are bad and shouldn't be continue but we are not cos we are only having different ideas or opinion on how it should be done.

To understand why I did and post is that I want all to have clearer views of the BHs in towns for the following reasons.

1. What the authorities are receiving are all incorrect informations mostly from those who knew very little of the BHs, ECO guys and many having hidden agenda BHs@ECO park.......
2. A small percentage of us are not cooperating to ensure that we can remain not 1 year or 3 years but forever @ towns by disturbing neighbours, unrest and unhappiness of the neighbours toward the BH@Town which is rather sad affair.
3. Newbizs to the industry should be taught well so that they will not lose all their saving incase they are not allowed as some of the requirements are there in most of the formal guildlines. To be on the safe side, ensure that you at least follow the formal guildlines if possible so as to give yourself better chances of being successful in staying put@Town.
4. I appreciate that many leaders like DL are trying very hard to push thru all BHs @ towns to be allowed to remain but it shall be a uphill task because we can never get 100% of what we want even if we have opposition parties as government and it maybe worst as DAP is 100% against the BH@Town; PAS is OK if for the money to fill their coffer ..........pls. do correct me cos I hope that my statement is wrong.
5. A Federal Swiftlets Association spokeman has told me that BHs @ Town are safe but then, please try to be helpful by not playing up the sound and disturbing the peace. What's calm now may became a storm if we are arrogance and inconsiderate.I asked for the draft copy and I hope to get it but then, no promises.
6. I was always telling members of the BHs owners that we need non members to be effective as if we can convince non owners that we are a group of peace loving and environment friendly people and no the illegal operators of BHs as we often heard in Newspapers. Why so far no oen has ever complaint that the Newspapers gave wrong informations as we are not illegal and never have been. We are a group of law bidding citizens trying to make good living in an honest way.......happen to save the world to be green and enviroument friendly.

For that, the Friends of the Earth has wronged us, the Prevention of cruelty to animal has not supported us and all the world Peace loving groups should have supported us for we are truly their friends.

Swiftlets Sanctuaries services are what we provide and nothing illegal about it and I hope that the authorities or reporters should never associate us with the illegal and the criminals. We are clean and honest people trying very hard to earn honest living in a world full of corruptions and unhealthy shits.............not swiftlets' shit cos it's healthy and safe like us.

PS. Sure, I m very active in my area and in my Association and are always in the front line to take any beating when required not for the members but for the birds.

In my opinion, there always need to having some form of compromised understanding between group A comprising of Badan Warisan and Penang Heritage and Group B the owner of the old building converted into BHs or to be converted into BHs.

Symbolically is not right as they need assurance and concrete planing so that the heritage buildings are there for the future generations and that we BH owners are not going to destroy all the pasts.

Give them 100% assurance that we will maintain the building well as agreed even if we have to enter in any written agreement with them, bidding our future generations as well.

They should understand that owners of those old heritage building need to survive and when chances like this occur, there are no reason to prevent the owners from cashing in with certain guildlines agreed by both parties and that the terms and conditions shouldn't be too extreme.

I may think that the authorities here do not have confidence or believe that we will follow once the approval is given and for that, we need to reach out our hands to them to show that we are friends and part of the BW and PHT as heritage of those buildings are also the heritage of the BHs owners @ Penang and Malacca .....


Errant swiftlet house owners and uncooperative BHs owners are worst than those who criticize us for they are the ones that tarnish our good works and commitment to make this industry acceptable by all @ town esp the authorities. I would recommend that the BH owners association get the local authorities to take action against those not follow our guidelines for it's better for us to get the headmaster to cane our own
children rather to have others telling the headmaster to do so............

Although, the majorities of BH owners are chinese but presently, many other races esp. Malays are in it, too and are increasing as we post. I have had so many Malay friends seeking information on how to start the BH.

My friend Lucas, since you have told me wrong although not proven me wrong yet as time will tell, I hope and pray for peace for the sake for the industry as I wish the Penang and Malacca BHs representatives can come to understanding with the state government and allow the BHs to remain for the sake of so many raayat going to lose their whole fortune if force to move out.

If Penang and Malacca's cases proved successful, I believe other states will try to better the terms and conditions for the industry so as to win the affected raayat support.

Once agreed and sealed, hope all must follow as agreed as not to cause another round of trouble for all those guys like DL and friends who have spend so much time and money trying to save your BHs in town.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 5 2010, 11:19 AM