Can anyone please help to scrutinize what is the new definition of the “bird’s nest” in the new ACT proposed? Bird’s nest is a very general name. In law, it must be very specific. It must not be ambiguous. It can be sparrow or mynah bird's nest too. Does it mention anything of cave bird’s nest from the natural caves under the PERHILITAN’s absolute jurisdiction and the cultivated house bird’s nest from man-made structure? Remember, it is just like the word, “chicken” or “fowl” which covers the AYAM HUTAN, a totally protected species under PERHILITAN and AYAM DAGING from our own backyard which we can slaughter as we please. It is also analogical to the WILD ORCHIDS from the jungle and those farm cultivated orchids.


AYAM HUTAN and WILD ORCHIDs fall under PERHILITAN’s jurisdiction, whereas AYAM DAGING is under HAIWAN and cultivated orchids under PERTANIAN. I think there are many more such examples. Also, it is just like the wild AROWANA caught from the rivers is under PERHILITAN. You need a prior approval in writing from PERHILITAN to hunt one and another license to keep it. But you don’t need PERHILITAN’s approval to rear those farm bred AROWANAs. Licensing of such AROWANA farm is issued by the PERIKANAN. The wild cat from the jungle is under PERHILITAN. But don’t think our house ***** CAT is also under them? Think all of you can help in to start thinking and checking of more such examples. We can jointly help compile all these here and later have these facts passed quickly over to the representatives from the so-called associations for them to refer to a panel specialized lawyers to verify and to clarify once and for all with the PERHILITAN and the Minister concerned. I think may be a court clarification is unavoidable. This ambiguous situation has been there for too long and it has bred too much of victimizations and corruptions on the industry by the kaki tangan. The Department concerned is definitely abusing its power. We must do it fast. Anyone here is a lawyer or has lawyer friends to consult with?


This is the association committee’s duty to do it, don’t understand why they didn’t do it? What have they been doing all this while? 30th of this month is the AGM. Hope that there will be someone from within bringing this matter up urgently. Are this committee there just warming up the seats and to rub shoulder with the big shots for personal hidden agenda and lead the whole industry to Holland?


Concurrently may be some here could download the proposed ACTs and make official complaints to your respective local MPs regardless he is from BN or PR. Someone from Hulu Selangor can start giving the 1st important task to the newly elected MP to see if he is what he claimed. I am not joking. This is a very good case for him, a national one.


Always remember, most of our YBs are seemingly very busy with too many functions and free dinners and they are no SUPER MAN. Do not expect them to know everything. Many of them don’t know laws. Some could be a lot more stupid than us. Some of them talk worse than an illiterate kampong old folk. Their P.A is normally smarter than them. So, please have the case or complaint well documented and pass it officially with many extra copies to them for their convenience after you brief them. Make sure you let him sign and acknowledge on your copy and give you a date to reply you. If you don’t do that, you will find your document disappear the next minute. You must keep your own copy and standby more for them again later. See both your ADUNs and MPs even though such case is normally under MP. At least, the ADUN can help you to chase him too. Possible bring along few more to be witnesses. In Malaysia, the more people you bring along to see the YB, the higher respect he gives you and more serious he would view the case. If you go alone by yourself, he would tell you, “Aiya, ini tadak apa lah. U orang kaya lah. Sikit sikit U pun mau kira.” Making very sure you make the complaint direct to him and no one else. Also you must be sure he does really understand your complaint and its nature.


Please bear in mind, they are YBs elected by you. YB stands for Yang Berkhidmat, it means they are at our service. If they interpret it as Yang Berhormat, then, Yang Berbodoh suits them better.


Also please help check on the powers and the jurisdictions of the PERHILITAN. Think their power is only limited strictly on certain wild-life bred and caught in the wild.

refer
http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIM...s/buru/Article/

If our current production is 250 tonnes per year currently then the increase is nothing short of exponential.
Lets go back to basics.
250 tonnes over 3 breeding cycles per year is 250/3=83 tonnes or 83000kg.
At average of 8 grams (1kg/120 pieces) ; 83000kg/8 grams=10,375,000 nests production per breeding cycle
By deduction , there is 10375000X2 birds(per nest) minimum in our country; i.e.
~20 million birds with another 20 million babies taking flight per cycle.
No need to do the math... just arithmatic will do and you can figure that these birds need less protection than ferrel chickens..duh!

read http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/661...cts-annual-2006

Again by deduction the parent stock of these Freeeeee flying birds is ...................count it yourself.


don't know how to ah.........

Hello, many more breeding parent stock than chickens ...... which come under Veterinary Dept.

Simple addition also cannot do .... but want to legislate..

What about the failed houses (70%) with less than 10 nest.
Again 0.7 X50000(houses) =35000 X10 nests=350000 pairs of parent stock
All these nests self consume.

Hello, if kena swiftlet flu the specie will be dropping from the sky.....mother nature's self culling.

Does the truth anger those it does not convince ...........................or those who fail to get even the basics right. ious:

Do the country and her citizens a favour and be progressive.
Stretching the truth for short term gain is HARAM.

Watch out for the immanent raid on BH in Miri in the next week or so. The supposed to be protector of the Protected species will be at it again and abusing what little power vested to them.

those affected shall sit together and plan what to do if the news is true.

my suggestion start contacting media as well as NGOs. it will be nice to have media around, at least for the evidences. explain to the media the impact, the scenario etc. I'm sure they are very much interested if we mentioned the "protected" part. I'm sure politicians are very much interested when media is present.

best wishes.

All,
Fuciphagus is now protected in the existing Act. (Protection of Wildlife Act 76)
In my reading of the new Act (Bill) Fuciphagus is no longer a protected specie. (Wildlife Conservation Act 2010)
Raise public awareness by all means, but get our facts right else we lose credibility.

Then again this new Act applies to Pen M'sia & Labuan only.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 28 2010, 11:45 AM

Dear WW,
This is part of the new Act,
try proving what's in a person's mind when they tear yr BH down and destroys a good part of it?

Protection against suit and legal proceedings
128. No action shall lie or prosecution shall be brought, instituted
or maintained in any court against—
(a) an enforcement officer or officer; and
(b) any other person for or on account of or in respect of
any act done or purported to be done by him under the
order, direction or instruction of an enforcement officer
or officer,
if the act was done in good faith and in a reasonable belief that
it was necessary for the purpose intended to be served by it and
for the carrying into effect the provisions of this Act.

As it stands ALL PBTs can tear down any 'illegal' structures.
From the DRAFT 1GP we already get a feel on what will be included in the final form to render a lot of buildings illegal if unable to comply.

So we have 2 equally powerful Govt depts 'developing' the industry.
So BANTU becomes BANTUT


This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 28 2010, 02:04 PM

is this a speculation? How come there is no Public forum for such law and order first.

It's an extract of the Bill.
I have already provided the doc link to Parliament in a prev post.



This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 28 2010, 04:16 PM

That is interesting.
Just like the satellite dish issue i presume.

If only it was just mere interesting... and not the calamity as BenChai has warned.
Pen M'sia has a major change coming on...how bad has yet to be determined as there is still little feedback.

Whereas in East M'sia what they have faced before they are going to face again soon.
And they do not have sight of a change to pin their hopes on.

Only consolation is, we (pen M'sia) will have the company of our East M'sia bros when 1GP is added on to our woes.



This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 28 2010, 11:47 PM

Licensing
What justification does Perhilitan has to continue licensing over an unprotected specie?
Requirement for licence
9. (1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, no person shall—
(a) hunt or keep any protected wildlife;
(b) take or keep any part or derivative of any protected
wildlife;
© collect birds’ nests;
(d) carry on the business of dealing;
(e) carry on the taxidermy business;
(f) import, export or re-export any protected wildlife or any
part or derivative of any protected wildlife,

They are already doing a poor job of even keeping the cave swiftlets population steady, they have no business lording over BH swiftlets,
They should instead concentrate their resources on the cave swiftlets.
If not for commercial BH, Fuciphagus would soon be going the way of the Dodo bird.
Does anyone know of any of Perhilitan's success story of turning around a threatened specie?
Do we even trust them enuff to even have responsibility over AF?

As Ben Chai has mentioned of the imminent action in S'wak.
They continue to enforce a law that works against their objective of protecting the specie.
Hello, BHs help conserve swiftlets not harm them.
Since it's a state law, arent the ADUNs being petitioned to change it.
S'wak having state election soon? Why settle for no enforcement.
Demand the state law be changed/amended to be relevant and current to CITES.
It shows malicious intent on the part of the enforcer to cont enforcing an antiquated law, despite
the knowledge that the state law has not kept current with CITES. Take them to court, S'wak's justice system
has not shown itself as tainted as Pen's

They even can tell you when to harvest
(d) the times during which, and the places where, any wildlife
may be hunted, or the nest or egg of any wildlife may
be taken;

Talking of eggs, I dun see leather back turtles (Dermochelys coriacea) in the any of the schedules.
Has it been licensed to virtual extinction, and their eggs continue to be sold in markets.

And the worst...the proposed licensing regime
The approving officer can at anytime introduce any additional conditions as he sees fit
There is no specific requirement in the Act for the approving officer to supply the reason for application being rejected.
You can appeal but the Minister's decision is final. How to appeal if you dun know the reason?
So the process is a blackbox, up to the whims and fancy of the approving officer.
Banyak cantik.!!!!
This is NOT acceptable, all conditions must be known beforehand......not made up along the way.
Any rejections must be supplied a reason and not just the decision as stated now.

It's proposed that they can rescind the license anytime.
If so then we shdnt be asked to renew the license annually (or any period they so decide later.)
They shd enforce the law at all time and actively put such offenders on notice for license rescinding.
Doesnt it make more sense? They will be less offenders than non-offenders.
Why punish all the non offenders by asking to go renew upon expiry. Only the offenders need to go justify their case.
License shd be good for life until rescinded.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 29 2010, 09:11 AM

very good write up cergau.
look at the penyu in terengganu . its a joke if tourist go there and see penyu behind the glass shield in Zoo Negara one day , i bet they will not shame themselves by doing that when natural habitat of this species was once a gift by mother earth. If jabatan perhilitan is successful in the conservation, than where are the penyu now?? Our govt always allow the one who think they are smart aleck and impose new rules and get away after that if anything turn out to be a failure. They were never responsible for anything they propose, suggest, manipulate, control, touch etc.... they are pirates since , do u think we can ask pirates to stop the treasure hunting.

Let's study back and how to stop this Pirates?

Pirates are Treasure Hunters , they will not give up hunting and robbing foods and golds . They will tax the village until they end up zero and will look somewhere else after that. But they not giving up on old villages, they will come back again when the food comes back.

first of all, nothing happen to the villagers yet in the bird nest world except the one in Mukah.
Villagers are very stupid one, they are coward and obviously they are not warriors. When pirates come, they will even leave the village leaving the wife and children behind. Fight or Flight !

The only law is the Pirate Law and there's not much you can do as they proclaimed that this land belong to them. The Village leader will prefer to submit and anyone who are a threat to the villagers like rebel will be purge. So all the villagers prefer to live in coward since its part of their life that their wife and daughter is a sex slave now.

The question is that How Low does these men want to go?? The women became tougher than the men now after their suffering. So the moral of the story is that those who read this, please for once speak up like Cergau, WW , Lukas, dunsun , tan or lau and a few other more who i think very prominent, sorry forget yor name ... united and fight these pirates until you reach their ship . burn it down and let them see ashes of their ship.

I may be wrong abt the penyu being under Perhilitan. It could be under Fisheries or maybe the state govts.
Either way I see them as impotent in so far as turning around a threatened specie is concerned.

To continue my rants against unjust laws
How irresponsible of the state govt to penalise it's own loyal citizens due to it's own shortcoming of not keeping protected specie current to CITES recommendation. Whilst they continue to adhere to CITES recommedation on the enforcement structure and local gazetting from which they derive their authority?
Enforcement Authorities / Autoridades de observancia / Autorités de lutte contre la fraude
For / para / pour Sarawak
8
Sarawak Forestry Corporation
Attn: Haji Chee (A) Abidin Bin Sulaiman
Area Manager
Security and Asset Protection Unit
Level 12, Wisma Sanyan
No. 1, Jalan Sukan
9600 SIBU
Sarawak

Tel: +60 (84) 33 74 44
Fax: +60 (84) 33 74 11
Email: hjchee @ sarawakforestry.com
http://www.cites.org/cms/index.php/lang-en...ncd/?country=MY

From history we know from the victims of unjust laws rose a man the world who would later know as Mahatma Gandhi.
Agi Idup Agi Ngelaban!



This post has been edited by Cergau: Apr 29 2010, 11:11 AM

do u guys see the quite similar reaction when the IGP threatened to pull the police men out of the street due to the shooting of 15 years old.

all these patterns seem to be quite identical whether its in the bird nest industry, F&B , Entertainment, MACC, beer issue, pork issue, education etc...

I really see that our system is not heading towards but backward in everything. Is paying our taxes had make them so arrogance and unappreciated to the public who paid their housing loan, recreational facilties, holiday and retreat home , training, seminars, overseas trip and even their salary.

What makes them think we are not paying all these to them and can even make threat to us and want to even cut off the opportunity of others. sigh

M'sia 2010 = Zimbabwe
M'sia 2020 = Somalia

Nike ............just do it
1Malaysia ....just du-it

WAKE UP CALL



Met a lawyer friend, casually discussed briefly over the proposed WIFELIFE ACT 2010, he warned seriously that we mustn’t take thing lightly. The term BIRD’S NEST is too general. Rightfully and professionally, it shouldn’t be that general and must be very specifically defined. If it is true that the term BIRD’S NEST is used, and if the ACT is really passed, then the PERHILITAN will be vested with more power to have jurisdiction on all types of bird’s nest whether protected or unprotected. By that time, in his professional opinion, the industry is definitely at the mercy of the PERHILITAN. He further stressed that since the ACT has tabled for the 1st reading and the PARLIAMENT session has just ended. The ACT would be tabled for the 2nd and also the final reading in the next session and considered passed after that.


He wondered why the associations are not consulted and why the associations are not doing anything. He further suggested that the Associations must quickly do something such as engaging a panel of lawyers specialized in constitution laws to study it and to stop it such as immediately create awareness by alerting the Ministers concerned and through all the MPs officially before too late while there are still a couple of months before next PARLIAMENT session. He warned that the PERHILITAN is definitely having a hidden agenda in doing this and is misleading the Minister. It wouldn’t be that simple and sincere.


So, my dear friends please quickly alert your respective association on this urgent situation and request them to seek a second professional opinion as soon as possible. Meanwhile, please also on your own consult and check with your own lawyer friend who is good and familiar with constitutional laws to confirm our fear. I think time is very short.

When does a bird's nest CEASE to be a bird's nest ?

The act is aimed at protecting ALL species of birds from being endangered from their breeding cycle being upset, which is fair enough.

At one time, when hunting licenses for deer was still being issued, it specified that no young below a certain size, judged from the emergence of horns, could be taken. Females with young or pregnant could not be taken. Of course that is history, no hunting permits have been given for deer in recent years.

Similarly, young wild boar, ie with stripes can NOT be taken. It is not easy to identify pregnant wild boars.....they are all fat at the belly !

This is specific for large mammals as it can be visually confirmed in which state the animal is in.

Back to birds, most birds abandon their nests after the young ones fly away and in the case of birds other than EBN swiftlets, grass and twigs will often rot and disintegrate.
BTW you can get fined for taking weaver bird's nest as souvenirs, these are the bottled shaped nests we find so often used for decoration.

In the wild, EBN will end up consumed by fungus, insects etc. when they birds have fledged, so it is a natural process.

Whilst we know from house swiftlets that lazy birds will reuse any abandoned nest left unattended, to the extent that they will also lay in man made imitation nests.

IMHO, From a point of law, a nest ceases to be a nest once it has been abandoned. If the converse were to be true, fallen nests of other birds, eg twigs, grass would be illegal to clean up !

The law is not specific to allow PERHILITAN to prosecute easily but all it takes is someone willing to fight in court (at great expense ) and it will become very difficult for PERHILITAN.

By virtue of the fact that PERHILITAN issues licenses and permits for the harvesting of EBN wild or otherwise, confirms the above.

PERHILITAN should be encouraged to be specific so as to avoid being ridiculed and possibly sued.

This is also good for the EBN industry as it will discourage the taking of nests of which the birds have not fledged. These 'virgin' nests are easy to identify.

Lawyers not in the business of EBN often need some directions to be firmiliar with each subject.

I am not a lawyer, just my 2cents worth.

Lucas 1,
YES, very very short indeed.
Also, See the invitation from Perhilitan below.
Any mention by any of your local association? At all?
Better still, any comments from the supposed 'federal assoc' that just concluded their AGM?
All the major NGOs has come out in support of the Bill and have issued press releases.

BERNAMA - New Wildlife Act In Force End 2010
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsindex.php?id=492569

NST Online New Wildlife Act to be enforced end of 2010
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/art...icle/index_html

WILDLIFE PRESERVATION : More ideas on better wildlife cover
Submitted by pekwan on Monday, December 28th, 2009
Monday, December 28th, 2009 08:42:00

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

THE Department of Wildlife and National Parks (DWNP) appreciates the concerns highlighted by S.M. Mohd Idris of Sahabat Alam Malaysia (SAM) in his letter, "Cruel to be kind to exotic pets" (The Malay Mail, Dec 24, 2009).
The DWNP, together with the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, are in the midst of amending the Protection of Wildlife Act 1972 (Act 76), which will focus more on the protection, conservation and management of the local species within the Peninsular Malaysia, with the consideration of all major recommendations and suggestions from the public and non-governmental organisations (NGOs), either through dialogues or workshops conducted by the DWNP, or through written submissions.

The DWNP would like to take this opportunity to invite the NGOs, public institutions and the public to cooperate in creating awareness on keeping wildlife as pets.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Besides that, the DWNP would like to thank the writer for the positive feedback and for supporting the department in safeguarding biodiversity in Peninsular Malaysia.

Should any clarification be needed further, please do not hesitate to contact the DWNP at pakp@wildlife.gov.my.
Yamuna Perimalu
For the Secretary-General
Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment
Putrajaya

Just back from the KL AGM of the FED and this is what I hear and I can understand.

So far so good but for how long from my opinion, also depend on all of BHs cooperation to minimise negative public opinion on our industry. The Health Department is the obstacle to the GP as they want to be involved but the problem has been settled between the ministers involved according to what I heard and if I heard correctly but my ears not so good lah.

So far, some of us are really getting to our nerve and not only the public complaints, so of us BH owners also complaint so the best action it to ensure that those black sheep of our family do toe the line.

As for the GP, everybody is keen to know as it affect our future but the draft will remain a confidential document until the cabinet view and approval have taken into consideration. Remember that we are not alone but we do have many enemies which will like to see our elimination and destruction @ towns. So, the best is to remain calm and the Fed Asso. Boss, Dato Beh has personally ensure me that he was in all the meetings and dialogs concerning the industry and he is happy that so far so good. He request that all must cooperate so that there shall be no changes in the draft as many of our enemies will like to see. Anyway, to be frank to all here that I believe to there need to be a win win solution to the BHs @ town and we as the BH owners in town will definately need to compromised but the only factor cannot be compromised is the moving the BHs from towns and this cannot be compromised!!!!!!! And what I heard from President Dato Beh and his team believe in it, too.

Also do not spread rumour about the industry as you will only cause alot of pain and sleepless nights for many of us who depend on the industry for income. Maybe, some have secret agenda for it but do it else way as I believe this site is best reserve for the swiftlets matter and not for political mileage, discrimination and dirty cleaning.

I hope that you all agreed with me on the matter as I maybe small but united, we are a big force to reckon with. Ishaallah, we will survive and live thru the storm.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 2 2010, 12:59 PM

Unc WW,
Thanks for the feedback frm yr participation in the Fed AGM.
Fed - 1GP
Correct me if wrong here, I have yet to read nor heard anywhere the Fed issuing a press release that they are indeed participating in all the meetings and dialogs and 'everything' is OK.
Their assurances would help alot and we would not have to spent so much time digging thru everything that concerns EBN for discussion here.
It would also dispel alot of unnecessary rumours and everyone will be able to sleep well and utilise our time better.
It's not a very difficult thing to do nor a very unreasonable thing to ask for is it?

Fed - Conservation of Wildlife Act 2010
What is their stand on this?
Was this discussed in the AGM?
This tells a lot of their awareness and their usefulness as the industry representative.

Rumours
You have rightly pointed out they are a spurts of panicky posting here lately.
What else are we do to do when little info is forthcoming from folks are are supposedly the industry representative?
Lack of information is the root of rumours.
I would demand more information if I were an member of any local association affiliated with Fed!

Politics
As posted before, we do not go looking for politics but politics is frequently thrust into our faces.
How many would wish that we are all left to ourselves to just do what we do best.
Can we? Can we continue to let Perhilitan to their elements...coming out with such all encompassing laws and such authorities over our very means of survival (as many have testified)?
Even the means to offer compromises to the Bill is a political process.
We may wish to stay apolitical, getting this Bill amended will not allow one to stay on the fence.
You think any BN rep will be brave enough to vote against the Bill as it stand?
Are the Fed talking to Perhilitan for suitable amendments?
The choice is left to each of you reading, either you place your trust on the Fed and hope for the best OR
Help your selves, debate the Bill here and we each werite to our MPs for awareness OR
The Fed folks get online here and see if WE can collaborate on this.
(I am not being arrogant here by demanding their presence on the forum, it's just that this is the most convenient medium for collaboration)

IF the Fed do show their mettle and resolves all these issues, they would certainly endear themselves to everyone here.
and they can look forward to strengthening the Fed with more local assoc participation.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 2 2010, 07:06 PM