.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:05 PM

Now we could emphasize this to the Cabinet. Whoever have the connection , please repeat this to the govt whether they are in wildlife , PBT, Najib admin etc.

If Swiftlet is an Endangered Species ( how they regulate or determine a species falls under this category is yet to be known but i try to find out more soon) than all Swiftlet Farmers should have Bonus and Incentives by the Govt to protect this swiftlet population by us.

Wildlife Dept must now identify the macro problems that will cause the extinction of this Species.

1) Peat Fire
2) Air Pollution
3) Water Pollution

Anything that can kill or make these bird extinct. What factors are they taking to protect this species?

Malaysia always proud to be call as the First or No 1 in everything but the 1GP draft not even an updated one due to the 2000 and the word angaran. Then the draft is so thin and no details or studies made. Where are the reference or articles that brought them to this draft. Where is the evidence and on what basis they draft out this 1GP.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Feb 22 2010, 12:27 PM

Hackwire,
Your suggested approach has been tried already.
It's not cos' swiftlet is a threatened species.
Sufficient evidence already show that its not the case already.
CITES which M'sia is a signatory to, helps regulate the endangered list.
Schedule 1-3 of the WildLife Act reflects the degree of the danger of extinction.
It's not listed as endangered in Malaysian WildLife Act, but it's listed in Schedule 4 which any country has the liberty to add or remove.
So long as it's listed in any schedule Perhilitan (Pen M'sia) and Forestry (Sabah & S'wak) has the authority over these species.
My effort with my local MP was to remove swiftlet from the Schedule 4, but was advised that I need to publicise the effort to get sufficient support from Parliament members. I do not have the resources nor connection to mount any kind of publicity except here in the forum.

Dunsun has spoken to Perhilitan, their reason for still keeping it in Schedule 4 it's cos' it's wild, whcih sounds preposterous to me.
The only valid reason they need to still keep it in the Schedule is cos' the wild cave populations have indeed dwindled, for whcih they have direct control as they control the harvesting. (how else do you think they have a ready process or licensing regime for keeping & harvesting EBN?)
They have then push the fault to the some other uniformed services for allowing overharvesting for undercounter $$$$.

So.... do you wanna go battling with the power-to-be to handle this HOLISTICALLY? I wish you luck.
Have you read the Lizard King?? Our very own world class ANAK MALAYSIA for all the wrong reasons.
Read how the 2nd most powerful person in Perhilitan talks abt him like her own pakcik and goes around protecting him and accuse a foreign country of entrapping him and putting him in jail for a few years. When he was in jail, Perhilitan continue to provide him licenses to him to deal in protected species. NOW you wanna to tangle with folks like this.

All I can tell you is I can only function in this forum after I regain my energy from the anger and disgust I feel with these knowledge.
I feel so helpless sometimes with no where to turn to... the police?... civil case to the courts?
Welcome to my beautiful country.
You know the saying..
THOSE WHO CAN, DO; THOSE WHO CANT, TEACH.... for M'sia you can give it a twist
THOSE WHO CAN, DO; THOSE WHO CAN'T, GOVERN

I know I too have sunk to just venting. (soory lah, else cannot function and will probably have a heart attack if not)

btw , I have sent the draft 1GP to a few blog writers and my MP.
I already see it on WOSG on their front page. (they must have picked it from LowYat or 1 of us, not me)
http://worldofswiftletfarming.blogspot.com/

Please note that the discussion is at the Cabinet level, not Parliament, so sending to MP only serves to notify, MPs cant do anything.

Reading the Draft provided, I still don't believe that it shall be the one forward to the Cabinet. We have leaders like Dato Beh and others helping in the drafting of the paper and is this the outcome of the workshop after workshop helping to draft the paper to be make a Law on swiftlet Industry. I still don't believe it but I just sleep with it now until I get confirmation from the horse's mouth ....by the way, who has the horse mouth............ and will Dato Beh's representative or any Pejabat Haiwan official reading this forum please clarified if you are reading it.

Anyway, I am waiting for my Association Secretary to get intouch with the Fed. Association on the matter and hope that the draft is not the ONE>

WW,
I wish I have your confidence in any so called 'leader', I see them merely as the head of some association PERIOD.
From the fiasco from end 2009 and some more now of suggestion of their influence with the govt agencies, one can't help but be cynical.
Simply put they have yet to prove themselves worthy of our confidence.

Other than spreading this draft far and wide, I will wait and see if any forumers has anything else to share.
May we hope you will be able to bring good news after finding the horse.

MALAYSIA BIRD’S NEST MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION (MBNMA)

Is this association exist? Where's the Public Website for joining .
Where is the address? Do they represent Bird Nest Farmers of all states as i notice there are other association alike at state level?

Association that use the country name must represent Federal .

Where are their list of names?

Its a failure not to publish it out in the website if they have started this association so long ago.

Najib's facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dato-Sri-Naj...zak/27767103249

Najib's blog
http://www.1malaysia.com.my/index.php?lang=en

[quote=Cergau,Feb 21 2010, 04:08 PM]
Dunsun,
I doubt the cabinet can make any sense of this draft in the current state of readiness.
As you have mentioned, there are quite a few contradictions.
If this guideline in the state we now have at hand, gets approved then we know Cabinet fellas just 'bantai' approve only.
It's madness, this whole draft is piecemeal with inputs from diff authors and badly put together w/o rational.

I am struggling to build an alternative & found myself handicapped by not owning a shophse BH to provide insights into their peculiar situation in regards to section 6.

I am GIVING UP to try for a complete alternative but instead a partial comments only.

Yes, there is no outright statement that says shophouse BH is not allowed.
The conditions laid are impossible to comply with so 'SECARA HALUS' shophouse is not allowed or suffer endless harrassment until you give up.

---

Added on February 21, 2010, 4:44 pmMy effort thus far, I AM NOT going for an alternative as I find that every other statement require clarification from the author on the basis and justification.
Edible Bird Nest Guidelines
(Draft)

1 Latar Belakang
1.1 – 1.5 – no comments
Addendum
1.6 With the initial observation of the swiftlet’s preference for old shophouses along the coast. Further developments of man made swiftlet habitat for the collection of edible bird nest has been concentrated among coastal shophouses which then spilled over to abandoned shophouses. It was initially viewed positively as a means of utilizing (recycling) these properties for an alternative economic activity. With time foot traffic increases which saw the reopening of these once abandoned shophouses which signaled the start of the resident complaints of smell, noise & fear of avian influenza, be it real or unsubstantiated perception.

[2 Objectif

Amendment (just my suggestion, if the agencies can get their Objectif clear, then everything else will fall into place)

2.1)To Facilitate the growth to 100,000 birdhouses producing 500 tonnes of edible bird nest annually worth RM5billion by year 2020.
(source - http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsfeat....php?id=461591)

*********************************************************************

500 tones=500,000kg annually

500,000kg/100,000 bird houses=5kg per house annually

5kg/12months=415grams per month on average per house.

415m/1000gm X Rm4000 (per kilo) =Rm1600.00 gross revenue per month


What about expenses, interest, labor, licensing fee, conversion fee, utilities, depreciation etc, etc, etc, etc

Conclusion: The industry is a money losing venture on the whole for the majority .

When you let monkeys do the calculation there will be no bananas left….. only greedy fat monkeys with no shame.

This is mismanagement of the country’s resources.



Why should an agricultural activity be classified “perniagaan”.

Are chicken ,ostrich, fish farms also perniagaan.

This is God’s gift to the nation.

Mom and pop can participate.

Just like Hong Kong , Taiwan of yesteryear when a small plastic injection machine in their premise forms part of a supply chain to their country’s exports.

Small and medium industry ……….if you will.



This industry should be categorized under Cottage Industry for the small timers .....some who cannot rent out their ground floor because sundry shops lost out to the tescos' etc.


For the super successful there is always income tax duh!

Perhaps the over zealous are thinking of windfall tax.

Get real and be fair to all.

Nest cleaning is another industry in itself.

At Rm600 to say Rm800 a kilo to clean the nests, 500,000 kg cleaned is Rm300 million in cleaning wages or full/ part time employment for 41666 persons cleaning 1kg a month at Rm600 wages per kg.

Money should be earned the responsible and honest way !!

keep the rempits and dead wood off the streets and leaching off the govt.

That is the only way forward.

When gov people no respect bh farmer , why bh farmer want to respect them!!!!!!!! Give good example to farmer when gov want farmer to respect gov^_^

Greenacres,

Guilty as charged.

btw, I have commented on the Najib's 1Malaysia blog under the tag 'Budget', so I will wait to see if it get's moderator approved.
If so, then I leave to all here to comment further. The comment space is regulated, so I had to sound abrupt but hopefully coherent.
http://www.1malaysia.com.my/index.php?opti...ang=en#comments
He mentioned that he was thrilled to get 600+ comments post the budget presentation.
How desperate are we??? Maybe 1000+ comments??
To be effective it has to be before the Cabinet discussion (which date I do not know) , so do yr bit..let it be like a DDOS attack.

This was to be the full text but I had to edit on the fly and I did not copy the final cut for records and I cant recall (old chap mah!)
Dear Mr PM,
I humbly bring to your attention as a 3 decade tax payer the disappointing results of at least 1 item of the 2010 budget. (As a citizen who has his head at the grinding stone for so many years but has not yet developed friends in the proper places to bring this to your attention and thus through this channel I am aware of.) Your attention is most appreciated now as to nip this in the bud before the repurcussions may just prove to be widespread unhappiness and still yet another distraction from more important matters of state.
It relates to and I quote from your budget speech the following

"ADVANCING AGRICULTURE SECTOR
Fourth: Develop food farming industry such as fruits, vegetables, organic farming, herbs, seaweeds and swiftlet nests with an allocation of RM149 million;"

My writing to your goodself pertains to the swiftlet nest industry.
Various workshops were held by govt agencies with participants from the existing industry players.
Despite their input the draft guidelines to develop the industry has now appear to a whole litany of regulations with emphasis on control and licensing by the different govt agencies.
These appear to be self serving and runs counter to the published objective of...to quote Bernama release
"growth to 100,000 birdhouses producing 500 tonnes of edible bird nest annually worth RM5billion by year 2020"

The 1GP (the said guidelines) has the following as it's objective and I quote.."
2 OBJECTIF
2.1 Untuk memastikan perkembangan industri sarang burung layang - layang di negara ini ·terkawalserta mematuhi perundangan dan peraturan semua agensi kerajaan yang berkaitan dengan industri ini.
2.2 Untuk memastikan aktiviti pengambilan sarang burung layang - layang tidak akan menjejaskan populasi semulajadi burung layang - layang. tersebut.:
2.3 Mengawal dan menyelaras pengambilan sarang burung layang - layang agar ianya dijalankan secara lestari. "

It obviously is off the mark in terms of a national objective.
As for the allocated money to be spent to 'develop' the industry, there is no stated desire nor plan to work out common industrial problems faced either technical, health, specie specfic research, market access...etc.
As it stands now, the sums are to be given out to successful 'applicants' to build swiftlet farms. Nary a person in the industry seem to have a clue of how and when these applications were offered. Also the failure rate for this industry is topping 80%. Also 'swiftlet farming' is a misnomer. This trade is more akin to apiculture. We do not have a glowing record on apiculture to boast of.

As for the guidelines per se, it is too tedious for this channel and also will be sighted soon enough for cabinet discussion this week.

Suffice to say that the guidelines as unclear and incoherent as it stand in the draft, it is estimated 80% of existing 'farms' will be hard pressed to comply and will eventually have to close. Let alone what unclear,subjective and opague guidelines breed for those compliant.

That's RM1billion in foreign exchange and maybe the same amount of capital investment lost by small time investors from their life savings and retirement fund lost to short sighted and misguided guidelines. (no pun intended).

I again seek you indulgence to nip this in the bud and I offer my service and I am sure many of my fellow small time players to help revisit this guideline if you so desire and direct.


This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 22 2010, 11:55 PM

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:06 PM

Agreed, let's do a roll call of contacts made
Am not a member of any assoc as I do not own a BH yet
My touch points were

1)my local MP
2)Leader of a Opposition party
3)3 Blog writers emailed
4)Najib's blog
5)1 BH equipment supplier
6)WW has contacted his local assoc to contact the umbrella assoc (not certain where WW is from?, Pekan?)

Greenacres, well said...please refer to DL's comprehensive report, COTTAGE INDUSTRY was suggested by DL and adopted by the Majlis Daerah Kerian (Parit Buntar) in 2004 and implemented. Since then, there isn't any more huhahuha.........with all the locals very happy with the Majlis and the Majlis has been enjoying a lot of extra income from prompt payment of cukai tanah, hasil pintu, license fees......thus the district is prospering..... Many kampong and rural Malay brothers in the district are also having big and small BHs at the backyards of their Kampong houses and ever happy since.....

Btw, why not come on board and join the team of volunteers for this sacred mission? We are desperately needing a lot of extra hands......we need everybody to help in and to share out in many ways....... More hands will make the work lighter and effective....and the more united we are, the stronger we are.......This industry has been misled by the CRAZY HORSE & COMPANY....... These bloody dirty politicians disguised themselves and infiltrated and gained control of the Association conspired and collaborated with certain Authorities with hidden agenda to mislead all the owners to today's situation......


APPEAL TO ALL, PLEASE JOIN US. PLEASE HELP SPREAD THIS MESSAGE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.......TO ALL THE BH CONSULTANTS AND THOSE WHO BENEFITED FROM THIS INDUSTRY, THIS IS THE TIME FOR YOU TO REPAY YOUR CLIENTS, PLEASE COME FORWARD TO HELP OUT. TO ALL THE BLOGGERS IN PARTICULAR SWIFTLET BLOGGERS, IT IS TIME FOR ALL OF YOU TO HELP OUT TOO. HAVE THIS BAD NEWS, DRAFT GUIDELINES AND MESSAGE POSTED ON YOUR BLOG VOLUNTARILY TO ALERT AND APPEAL TO YOUR READERS TO HELP IN........THIS COULD BE A LIFE AND DEATH BATTLE FOR MANY WHOSE LIFELINES SOLELY DEPENDED ON. IF THIS MOST STUPID DRAFT GUIDELINES WERE TO BE TABLED AND APPROVED AND EXECUTED, WE DREAD THE HARD EARNED LIFE-SAVINGS AND PENSON FUNDS OF MANY WOULD BE SHATTERED AND GONE. THEN COME THE WORRY OF BANK LOANS, THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTIES TUMBLED, THE CHILDREN'S FURTHER EDUCATIONAL FEES ETC......NIGHTMARES SET IN. EVEN WITH SLEEPING PILLS, NO ONE AFFECTED CAN EVER SLEEP ANYMORE.......ALL THESE, WE MUST THANK TO THE CRAZY HORSE & COMPANY & THIER CRONIES WHO SUPPORTED THEM.......THIS IS ALSO THE BIGGEST CNY PRESENT FROM THE CRAZY HORSE & COMPANY TO THE INDUSTRY

---

Added on February 23, 2010, 3:19 amWhat? Swiftlet, an endangered species? My god, do all of us see sparrows that frequent these days in our courtyards? I hardly see them these days, no longer like last time......whereas, each time I look at the sky at any where, I see swiftlets, sometimes covering the whole sky...... I think sparrow should replace swiftlet to be under Endangered Species.....For your info, swiftlet is no longer classified under Endangered Species in Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia etc. Only Malaysia the only country doing this. ( May be we should highlight this to the PM, telling them how efficient is our PERHILITAN? I think, good point, no joke. Yes, yes, I remember that. i ever saw it. Someone ever highlighted to me. Could someone please help to google that to extract it?)

---

Added on February 23, 2010, 3:30 amAnyway, I am waiting for my Association Secretary to get intouch with the Fed. Association on the matter and hope that the draft is not the ONE>

Bro WW, how long does the Federation Association need to take reply a simple quiery? Do they need to call for a full committee meeting to seek approval to reply you?

This post has been edited by Lucas 1: Feb 23 2010, 03:30 AM

This is a violation of our basic rights. Any law that violates the constitution is null and void.

Entering any private land or building by enforcement agencies without a court order will turn us into a dictatorial country.

---

Added on February 23, 2010, 8:20 amThis new law will kill off the industry. Is there no public hearing or any parliamentarians sympathetic to the cause ?



This post has been edited by chiongguo: Feb 23 2010, 08:20 AM

If Goverment Change?the condition will change?
anyone from penang can check with DAP lim guan eng?what he can flight for us?

another point here,the malaysia birdnest associaton din't help out in this issue?


This post has been edited by tangsn: Feb 23 2010, 09:26 AM

For a country with ISA...What rights?
Police have theirs in some other Act, I know Bank Negara officers too.
They need only show you their IDs.

Search without warrant
7. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in section 6 a
Director for Wild Life and National Parks, a Deputy Director for
Wild Life and National Parks or an Assistant Director for Wild
Life and National Parks may without a search warrant stop and
search any vehicle or enter and search any dwelling house, shop,
business premises or other building where—
(a) acting under a warrant of arrest or exercising his powers
to arrest without a warrant of arrest under this Act, he
has reason to suspect that the person to be arrested is
in the vehicle or dwelling house, shop, business premises
or other building;

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:06 PM

I like your style
A true Statesman in the making?

We can lose credibility and damage our cause if we do not quote facts.
If our foe pokes holes into our case, then we will sound like some bodoh politicians, talk 'AYAM JANTAN'.

To be more exact; in case anyone wish to quote the 'Not Endangered' reason to fight our cause.
Swiftlet specifically Fuciphagus, is not in Schedule 1, 2 or 3 which list Endangered specie.

Fuciphagus is listed in Schedule 4, which according to Perhilitan are for 'wild' Fauna but NOT ENDANGERED.
But anything in Schedule 1-4 comes under their purview.

My initial thought was to break their source of power at this point.
It's a tough one cos' it will go against the now licensed exporters who has the money and influence.
Anyway let's not get on to this for now...it's for another time.
It's important but not urgent.
I can only go into this when there is sufficient support to do the mass publicity effort like happening now.
There's a lot of paperwork to walk this into Parliament, it will be sad, to have it defeated by lack of publicity and MP support.
It's a thankless job.

To quote ChanK
"Stop thinking that we are been govern by the politicians. They are our servant's. Act liked a boss for a start!."

Yes, Democracy works if we wish it to work, not just every 4-5 years. We have to live it and not shy away.
If we do not keep them in check, they become little emperors.

To quote the Lizard King fiasco again....as it's specific to our cause
When asked why a convicted jailbird continue to get licenses to do the very thing that he was jailed for..
"Well, if we do not give him the license, he will do it illegally anyway....such arrogance in the face of the illegality of it all"
In the same line of reasoning ... can we house and harvest swiftlet nest illegally until you grant us the license w/o the hassle.
Let' start exporting too!!! so can get export permit!!!!

We must have a strong civil society to make Civil service (PUBLIC SERVANT), Parliament & Executive in check.
Speak up, comment on forums, blogs, twitter, facebook, write to the papers (if it still exist in 5 yrs).
A lot can be achieved thru these channels. Peaceful demonstrations.
Dun mean to preach...aging does that to you.

"demonstrations"....I can picture Dunsun suddenly perk up with anticipation with a crazy look in his eyes.
Down Dunsun!, Down!!

.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Mar 2 2010, 09:07 PM