I expect i wll get all this answer,that why i porposely post up the scale and test....
really what i expect is true,this forum is not for newbie.

Latest info from Harry Kok blog where US Time Magazine wrote a article on Swiftlet Condo in South East Asia, some of the info cortesy of Harry Kok. The latest Time Magazine with Michael Jackson photo. Looks like the Mat Salleh is beginning to be keen with this Business! At least something good came out of Harry Kok blog! Keep up the good works!

Hahaha………..Why do you want to do that for? What type of answer do you expect from the way you threw the remarks? Isn’t that that is the suitable answering you expected to get? What else more you expect? Would you yourself be happy to prepare to help someone who is rude and ill-mannered to you? Remember, when one talks ‘nut’ to people, in the end he would get ‘nut’ answer and be treated like ‘nut’ too. Hahaha………Courteous and sincerity is always very important in life. Give your respect to others first, then you will be respected too. I suppose this is a basic home training and culture that we can only inherit from responsible parents. Hahahahaha……………… What a good joke?????.............Have patient, my new friend, this is a forum for all newbies as well as old hands just as long as they are sincere and gentlemen……….. All old hands started from newbies………..

Friend,

seeseng n my answer should have helped u. wah..help u some more talk liked that ahh??

When i build my farms many years ago...i want to find someone to ask questions also cannot find ahh....u pay money then peoples tell u loh...
and u want sound..pay money loh..thats how i learn how to farm.

Now, so many peoples gives free services n free sounds u also don't think it is GOOD??

wah....what u expect?.... u never tells us more details...just sketches....


U might be frustrated by the farm progress, if thats the case, fine, u can send more info to me or to any old birds here, we will help u for FREE! .

Don't gives up hope. Nothing to be frustrated, it is just birds we are talking here...Not Life n Death.


Bob,
u take the risk, u gain n u take the risk. U dont take the risk, u gain nothing n u loose nothing.

Just liked last time, when we start our farms in one new place, only few birds respond. after one year, the population grow in hundreds!.

If u want less risky, put the money in the bank n earn interest is the safest u can get. when u invest, u calculate the possibility of farms been demolish or not..if ur calculation that this will not happen, then u buy. but if u are doomer, u will sit there n wait.
Those who not managed to fire sale their farms will smile all the way for the rest of their life.
and Those who managed to fire sale their farms will ` Ja Choon Doi ' for the rest of their life.

Money drop from the sky??....this is always true to the Eco park developers but not to us! It's like striking a jackpot to them! If they face difficulties in selling, some resort to dirty tactics trying to blackmail those in power to harass the town BHs.

Birds distributes from where they started off, in our case the Town/Cave and it takes time. It comes in loose and intensive distributions from colonies of birds. They are not birds nor money drop from the sky whereby you can make big harvest in no time! This mindset the Eco park developer and the state exco have is really pathetic!

---

Added on July 15, 2009, 9:09 amThe way tangsn posted the question here is different from the way he posted below, seem to have patient/manner

http://cforum3.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?...age%3D1&page=74

Just to highlight the Chinese Swifltet Farming Forum, I think it is good place to warn newbies there about all the scams like the one on the Star recently.



This post has been edited by swift4ever: Jul 15 2009, 09:09 AM

Dear tangsn,

Don't feel bad as we @ forum reach out further than you think and we don't do that for the money like the Eco guys but we do it for the friendship.

Yesterday, one guy requested me to visit his 18 months BH in his plantation. It was OK by normal standard as his BH has over 100 nests but than, the entrance was wrong and the tweeters were not fitted correctly.

My comments to him were that if I was there 18 months ago, he would have at least 3 times what he is having now, so I left him with some suggestions to do. I spend 4 hours of my time to be there and the reward is a cup of teh tarik; all for the sake of making a new friend.

The story of above is that sometime even if your BH isn't prefect, you still have bird staying but then if you do it better, the result will be much better.

For all failed Bhs, my sincere suggestion is to be in the BH to understand why it fail and by observing the birds and shit.....using all your senses including your common sense if any and study your BH and feeling it will guild you to a better understanding of the situation which no Sifu or book can teach you by posting or reading.

For the newbiz, learn and learn well and when you have thousands of nests in your BHs, we @ forum will only be happy for you and no green eyes, that I can promise.

As always, my humble and personal comments on the swiftlets' happy home provider.

Hi guys... long time no see.

Bummer, had to read so many posts, interesting ones at that. Like someone said before, personal conflicts just pm each other and stab each other with words (honestly i find it entertaining but might irritate others).

I read the "Kertas Cadangan Industri Penternakan Burung Walet Di Negeri Johor" posted by ChanK and my sincere advice is to shoot the people involved drafting that piece of shit. Well, we can all try to educate them but i don't think these type of people are open to advice since they have ulterior motives, interests and obvious intentions of monopolizing... exactly what uncle ben and a few others predicted months before. Besides, why involve more and more agencies when the existing ones are not only deaf, blind and ignorant of the real issues but also refuse to comprehend that the industry is one heck of a source of economic growth and at times playing the race card?

One state starts off... others will follow... maybe not in opposition states? but hey, even the sabak bernam group was told of by ronnie liu? The authorities just won't listen. Someone start off a memorandum and collect signatures or something and shove it up our leader's ass (might be the only way he'd notice, ok, maybe not up his ass, might end up like DSAI).

Thanks for the Eco-Park info. Maybe we might get the names of the BOD or Directors of MD's or CEO's of these companies... but i doubt the real masterminds are exposed. Proxies... unless some of them are dumb enough to be directly involved. I'm sure some nephew of an ex-wifes cousin twice removed in-laws of one of the state directors are involved. I'm also sure that the main-con, sub-con is someone's neices second cousin's step sister c/o. Heck, 50years of corruption and abuse of power has trained the authorities well. Even the PTG of Gombak was able to entitle a 7 year old kid with land lots 20 years ago. Amazing Malaysia. Owh, did i mention... the always get away with it?

To me the swiftlet industry issues are fundamental issues revolving around our constitution, legislation, basic rights even animal rights and definitely politics. What, you think the swiftlet industry is the only one facing such problems? Lets try do our best together, in whatever capacity we can. To other respected forumers, please continue to give insight and invaluable info. To those forumers with hidden agendas or have masters they obey, just post and we'd rebut casually, since some facts.... remain facts. Besides, only CK Lim has solid scientific based evidence/researched based. What the hell does JPV have? Even their so called vets/ornithologists were briefed and taught by the industry players. Only recently have they started doing 'some' scientific based studies... and even so i'd doubt they'd use the proper methodology.

Suggestions have been forwarded, ideas highlighted, issues debated, input given to agencies... what would be the course of action if all things fail? just a question. Abolish ISA (Internal Swiftlet Act). >.<



for newbies like me... read the previous thread. from there read this one. then do some digging, find other BH owners. they may or may not be willing to share info and experiences, but what do you have to lose? i took almost 2 years researching on my own and shamelessly asking other owners (failed and succeeded BH's) before even going to the GAHP course. Even now i never miss out a chance to meet other new, old or upcoming BH owners to share info. Its become kinda like a hobby, besides good networking. Anyways, i love watching those birds fly home, even if they are not mine. They are such beautiful animals.



Also read the link from the Penang Vet Services, yups... outdated. Wonder if they're still living in the pre Merdeka Era. Wanted to comment on the so called GAHP and Animal Rights;

Di dalam mencatatkan Amalan Baik Penternakan Haiwan, beberapa perkara diambil kira iaitu :

1. Keperluan fizikal dan perilaku haiwan pembiak dan bukan pembiak;
(which is exactly what BH owners are doing, since we all know the birds will only nest once all the birds demands are met)

2. Perlakuan berperikemanusiaan;
(heck, giving the birds a free and safe home... thats very perikemanusiaan)

3. Keselamatan manusia;
(well, never heard of any AF transmitting diseases to humans. the urea smell? only the owners get a whiff and even then, they can wear masks. Can't think of any other harm to humans EXCEPT if some nest theifs were caught and the BH owners decide to chop some parts off, just kidding!!!)

4. Keselesaan pengurusan haiwan, dan
(newer BH's are definately properly managed with systematic removal of shit/guano, proper safety measures and some even certified structures(standalones))

5. Keuntungan yang baik bagi premis.
(depends. 1 nest/harvest untung ke? haha!)

‘Lima Kebebasan’ , sebagai kayu pengukur bagi kebajikan haiwan adalah :

• Bebas dari lapar dan dahaga.
(no need to worry since they feed for themselves. Except the ones in the Mukah incident where babies i assumed died since the authorities just piled them up in besens)

• Bebas dari ketidakselesaan, kehangatan dan fizikal.
(exactly what happens when authorities lock up, seal off and even break down BH's)

• Bebas dari kesakitan, kecederaan dan penyakit.
(same as above)

• Bebas dari keresahan.
(same as above)

• Bebas mempamerkan perilaku dan fisiologi yang semulajadi.
(they fly free enpugh, even fly to nearby BH's of competitors)



This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Jul 16 2009, 12:46 PM

Harshness, rudeness and bad mouth isn't my way at all and so I should stick to Swiftlets Sanctuary Services (SSS) which I perfer to call as I was never a swiftlets farmer nor a swiftlets rancher, just a Swiftlets Sanctuary Service provider and that's me!

So, as I love the birds and will disseminate what I know about them thru my past experiences (which may sound outdated) while working with the swiftlets. Hoping by doing so, Imay encourage others to share and treat the swiftlets well.

So, I shall try to discuss about setting up a BH after you have chosen a place to build the BH scientifically or ancient method of calculation. to make a BH is to make a home for the birds and so what you must try to do is to copy the best of bird's sanctuary and that to start from the cave environment and then improve from there thru trials and errors cos the cave was the best place for the swiftlet then as we are not there to provide them with better place.

So, you see after so many years of migrating to our buildings and with study conducted by "SSS" providers, we have understand more about the swiftlets. Although that our BHs are better and more suitable for the swiftlets, there are still rooms for improvement and still we are doing it every day by trial and error........but many of us are really very selfish about sharing our new acquired knowledge and findings.

That's understandable as human by nature are selfish and more in Chinese because " teach all you know to your student, there will be no teacher". Do remember that Teacher also will learn during teaching as new idea and finding will come out during the time.

Coming back to BH SSS, the swiftlets house should keep the heat and cold out so the best is to find a material that insulate the home, keep the temperature inside warm but not hot or cold. Humidity must be high and no wind and best if low darkness stimulating that of the cave. How you obtain it is another matter.


For best height of the nesting area, my view is that the higher the better but then, too high mean more difficult to collect nests safely. So, we need to compromise the height of the nesting area. Many consultants will suggest anything from 10 to 12 feets as to suit the standard ladders height.

I believe that most of the readers would like to read more on how to inprove our BHs and I don't mind sharing my experiences which some of the readers may disagree with my findings and I hope that they will post their view or findings here and we shall discuss over the forum for the sake of the whole industry and me, for the sake of the swiftlets well being. For readers who wish to discuss SSS over the forum, many of us here will join in to share as we always do but then someone must forward a topic for discussion.

Maybe, we can talk planks, tweeters, settings or anything esp. Problem solving concerning swiftlets as someone did mentioned that we here are @ UNI level already. UNI or no, we still discuss child play for the sake of our newbizs.

Please do comment if needed. Sorry if I sound long winded........

Dear Brother WW:

It's me again here.

How I wish that I can have a teacher/sifu like you, a true "贵人" like you.

I don't think there is an English word for "贵人".

Well, "贵人" is someone who offers to help us unconditionally when we are in deep trouble.

I always like to think that if there is a "贵人" be there to help us, it is easier and faster for us to achieve the dream of building a successful BH, as we would not need to beat around the bush and especially be exposed to the risk of being conned by the conman.

Who are our "贵人" and how to find "贵人" ?

It all boils down to one thing: when the "贵人" turns up, are we ready to welcome him/her? Or put it in another way, is it worth for the "贵人" to offer something to you?

As such, we need to observe and think, think and observe..Just like the bird, observe, judge and think before making decision to stay in your BH and confirm that your BH is a "贵屋".

It is most important that we should make ourselves well-prepared to meet the "贵人".

Be sincere, honest and humble I believe we will be able to find him/her soon...

Good luck!

Hi everyone,

May I know where to buy nesting planks in Selangor (direct from the sawmills)?


Thanks.

If you don't mind the distance, I know a sawmill in Kuala Terengganu that produces Red Meranti nesting planks with the following spec

Planks size can be pre-ordered.
Planks are moulded with grooved lines on both sides.
All planks are KILN DRIED (KD) in Kiln Dry chambers, thus you got straighter planks to reduced air gap in between ceiling and high resistance to mold formation.

Read the advantages and benefit of kiln dried timber here.
Advantages of kiln dried timber
Benefit of KD timbers

It is not easy to find ( nor you are able to identify it ) KD nesting planks from your neighborhood store kayu or a small time sawmiller because setting up a KD facility needs high capital expenditure and sales volume.
There are two important differences between air drying and kiln-drying. In a kiln, the wood is usually heated above 130ºF, which kills all insects, eggs, and fungi. Second, with resinous softwoods, the heat drives off the resin that would be liquid and runny at room temperature.

Indicative price for 1" x 6" size is RM2500 ex factory per tonne. (take note, these are Kiln Dried planks!!)

This post has been edited by aeiou228: Jul 17 2009, 11:53 PM

"贵人" can be anybody .. i.e. teachers, friends (Male or Female), in forum we have WW, E Lee, CK, DLim.. etc. etc.. Just show/share your sincere with them, you can be a wiser man/women. However, I can guranteed you will never ever learn the secret just by posting in forum here or browsing through the web site. (i.e. my own experiences as newbie 2 years ago). My advices is to attend a GOOD Swiftlets Seminar, meet new friends with the same interest. We are all well educated people, we should knew how to gether the info we need and put into use.

How to success?
1. LOCATION
2. GOOD DESIGN
3. GOOD SOUND
4. GOOD AROMA

What seminar is the best! .. find the seminar far away from your place. I just find out you can easily share with friends far away from you, but not nearby friends. ha ha AM I RIGHT !

Dear All Readers,

For those interested there will be a seminar in Jakarta on the 8th and 9th Aug. 09. I have attended 3 of these seminar and was the first to register for my forth seminar by Pak Han. Good news is that this seminar will be conducted in English as there will be Thais and Singaporians attending. Contact CK for registrations.

Come and make friends and build up your net work for exchange of ideas amd share Sounds Ect Ect. Having been a student of Pak. Han you can chat with him over the net and get advise ( at anytime) Newbie like myself after attending his seminas cast aside all doubts and can self diagnosis my own BH and don.t have to get half truth and given the come onn.

It is hard for sincere ppl like Lucas ,WW,D.Lim.CK, Eng Lee to name a few to give you advise in this site for fear of backlash by these leaches who stood to lost potential clients . Newbie if you are geuine there is no need to hide your identity make yourself known and your email address I am sure you will get good advise.

There are many geuine and sincere Sifu in Malaysia who will consult for you for a fees. There is a west Malaysian Sifu who have lots of work in Sarawak and service is highly sort after and building successful BHs after sucessful BHs. They don't need to advertise and more so in other people's blog.

A sincere sifu will look at your location and say no don't build , there is not enough bird populations to justify your half K investments. If he knows that you got a good location will make one design and no alterations required maybe some tweeting only. You DIG !!


Call me privatelly and I will put you on to him. (No there is on commissiom for me I DON"T need to make a living in BN business ) Swiftlets is to fill my heart not my stomach.

Its such a wonderful hobby to be involve in , you know you got a friend anywhere in Malaysia where there is a BH in the horizon and a coffee shop where you can talk bird.

Of late I see my friend Harry Kok seem to be more sincere to want to help BH owner and don't run down others sifu's work.. This is a good turn around. I must say I enjoy his Blog and always looking forward to his new update. There ars some good suggestiond there also. If you agrees to his fees great ! Not change hole here then change hold there and the wait and seewhat happen next.

While on this subject a stand alone BH is completed and the owner with many BH in shoplots in Sarawak invites Harry to move his birds to the stand alone BH which he claim to have the mathod to do it. Kindly contact me and give us the proposal and quotations. This is a serious move and not for you to try Lah! Of cause we need guarantees because we are talking about about 2 million birds. After this project maybe you can retire.

Just a short note My new standalone BH designed and endosed by Pak Han is 7 weeks old ,have 15 shit spots and 3 nests and 3 markings. I use all Pak Han Sounds and aroma DIY learned during my 3 rd seminar in Jakarta last year. No ! I don't use Duress for pulling sound so I can video the birds and shaw off on Utube. No need to Die want Face. like they pratice in KT.

No I have no accomplish or gang up to discredit PPL. I mearly point out to newbie not to be taken for a ride and part with your money. There is no short cut. The promise of 700 birds in two weeks ? think hard please. If I have such a product would I sell it THINK AGAIN !!!

Of cause they wish me very near to GOD ! HaHaha. We all is going in that direction . At least I no longer cline to roof top and no safty harness. Becareful with threat to use the net to smear ppl . such PUBLICATIONS can be very expensive. Ask your layer what the words PUBLICATIONS means.?

I will no longer answer to all these trash as I have other better things to do saveing lifes.

Thank you for your time my comment is just for fun reading and open your eyes. "If something is too good to be true there must be a catch "

uncle ben,







Huat lee,

this is a forum, no one can stop anyone to comments. if you want you can always highlight it here but bear in mind that if ur identity is known then they can sue you.

I know many cases but i dont hv the prove, so i don't highlight.

since the star highlighted one such case, we will use this case to warn all new investors especially chinese educated investors as they are the one that the scam taiko's are targeting..

So, if u want to help translate it into chinese, and post it to all investment related forum and from there hopefully can alert some of them.

Those here in this forum should able to differentiate good or bad (well, not all...as some percentage still hoping for wonderland solutions ).

thats my own suggestion n u no need to follow.


so, how to identify if it is a scam?

look at their harvesting forecast, then u should know.

before a farm been build, if they forecast within one year they can harvest 2kg...that means 250 nests a month and to consistently harvesting this qty u need about 900 ~ 1000 nests in your farm.

So, how many farm u came across that do have this result...how many percent..1 or 2 %.....even the owner himself could not believed that his farm is with 1000 nests within one year.....most of them just put it pure luck that they build the farm there at the right place and at the right time.

As i always said, No bad design quarantee u 100% failure, n no good design guarantee u 100% success.


but then, how many ppls will believes this.......1 or 2 %?? haha.....maybe even less......

Hi All

At last Sifu West Wing come back to the SSS issue. Alll newbies like me appreciate your kindness to restart the discussion.

I have been searching and reading all necessary materials related to Swiftlet farming except attending seminars. I have tried both N**T aroma and LP and believe me that both have no effects. Only birdshits are necessary in a new BH.

Last post I have asked you related to the ventilation holes and by following what you advice, yes, there is good sign. Very very good sign. I appreciate your kindness and also to Harry who has highlighted this part in his blog.

Location is important as it decides how long you could get back your investment. Design is important and you must understand the flying path of Swiftlets. I finally understand what you mean by " to think like a swiftlet".

It is not good to discredit other blogger but, it is your kindness of Mr Benchai to save our hardearn money spend on misleading products. I have tried them, and prove that Ben chai is right.

---

Added on July 17, 2009, 11:20 amHi All

At last Sifu West Wing come back to the SSS issue. Alll newbies like me appreciate your kindness to restart the discussion.

I have been searching and reading all necessary materials related to Swiftlet farming except attending seminars. I have tried both N**T aroma and LP and believe me that both have no effects. Only birdshits are necessary in a new BH.

Last post I have asked you related to the ventilation holes and by following what you advice, yes, there is good sign. Very very good sign. I appreciate your kindness and also to Harry who has highlighted this part in his blog.

Location is important as it decides how long you could get back your investment. Design is important and you must understand the flying path of Swiftlets. I finally understand what you mean by " to think like a swiftlet".

It is not good to discredit other blogger but, it is your kindness of Mr Benchai to save our hardearn money spend on misleading products. I have tried them, and proved that Ben chai is right.













This post has been edited by cll666: Jul 17 2009, 11:20 AM

good info. thks.

Posting the scams or would be scams alone up here may only alert those who surf here. How many surf here? Only 50 or 100?

There are tens of thousands potential investors from multi-racial in the market who are starting to aware of the good return of this trade if successful. In fact, it is undeniable that this BH trade seems to be the only most profitable business in Malaysia that we could think of, these days. But these potential investors are rather ignorant of the facts and the risks. They only hear of the good side but not the bad side. Due to circumstances, many couldn’t afford to own or operate a BH by themselves. As such, there are many SHARKs exploiting the situation seeking victims. Therefore, these innocent and ignorant investment opportunity seekers are the most vulnerable victims to be misled into such type of scams to lose all their life-savings. Unfortunately, 95% of these seekers either don’t surf this forum or websites or don’t read English.

This is the moral obligation to the society for those who have conscience, are caring and sincere in this forum that we want to do our part to have this type of message translated and spread through other links on the net and also by way of personal contacts or through media to caution them. This is at least something we could do for the society.

Post up as much info on news of would be scams here. Have it translated and sent to other similar forums or websites. These scams must be exposed. We don’t have to worry or afraid of these CON-MEN. They should be punished with no mercy. There is a saying used to be reiterated by DL that, THE ONLY TIME EVILS THRIUMPH IS WHEN ALL THE GOOD MEN ARE DOING NOTHING. WHEN THE GOOD MEN START TO DO SOMETHING, ALL THE EVILS WILL START TO VANISH. This also applies to those black sheep, the LITTLE NAPOLEONS inside a certain Govt departments.

What is the price of bn now?

i sold mine at rm4100 (A) , rm3500 (B) , rm3000 ©...very damn loh le...

..

Why do you want to sell at this low price then? Keep it for higher price next time. After all, you are not short of cash.

looks like the tone of this thread has gone back to its original form, sane discussions with good info.

spent the last month in KT. Went to see a few BH's (outside only) and a few ones in the making. These were owned by friends of friends or friends of relatives and some relatives. it is fun making new acquaintances while talking bird. its also surprising how new knowledge is obtained from the most unlikely sources. different point of views also enlighten us on how little we actually know about God's creations.

was observing two BH entrances near terminal bas KT for 2 hours (5-7pm, looked like an idiot standing and staring while waiting for a bus to arrive).....
those who own BH's in KT are lucky. wish i had land there (Telemung, Serada, Pulau Rusa would be nice, but the land prices here have amazingly shot up after Giant & MyDin surfaced). even from there i could see the birds above the BH near YT.

I've seen resident birds coming home... i can say roughly that each second at least 5-10 birds swoop in while the others swirl around waiting turns. The numbers are reduced during incubation period and at this time they return earlier. Just some newbie observations.

Someone asked me about contractors for building a BH. I'll answer here if you guys don't mind. I won't and will never recommend a contractor since even i was screwed by mine. hahaha! (@%%$#!#@$!@$!$@!!! = incomprehensible swearing) in other words, DIY. but as a prerequisite, get the proper technical know how first and a good team of workers. buy your own material and supervise yourself. schedule it, never allow shortage of material. use premix for slabs... cranes and the works. this is of course if you have the time. get the design drawings from experienced old buggers, fortunately my bro is an architect so he could clarify everything including the material, detailed measurements and stuff. how much Y10, Y12, dawai ikat, pellets, BRCs and blablabla needed. in fact, i believe the cost uncle ben mentioned previously is obtainable. its just a matter of how much time and effort (money isn't an issue i assume) you are willing to sacrifice for this first baby (BH).

just in case you still want to get a contractor... review his previous work, credentials and referrals. Go see his or her (dont want to be gender biased here) completed work and ongoing work. dont go looking for house builders, most of the time it'll be disappointing. last but not least.... get everything in BLACK AND WHITE. hehehe, thank God i did. >.<