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This post has been edited by hfi: Jul 16 2010, 08:20 PM
Movies Inception | The Dark Knight director sci-fi pic, Warner Brothers wants Inception 2 ?
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Jul 16 2010, 08:07 PM
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Just came back watching this. Needless to say, everyone was left scratching their heads but in a good way. Love it to bits. It totally sex up the mind lol. Reminded me of another alternate reality film called Existenze which is also mind boggling. Everyone had their own interpretations of the film but i was left thinking if its probable that ...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « This post has been edited by hfi: Jul 16 2010, 08:20 PM |
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Jul 16 2010, 08:43 PM
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My mind is still boggling lol. What would she be right about Kobe ? As in she was still alive and was the one dreaming about all that took place in the film ? That would be too f***ed up lol.
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Jul 17 2010, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Jul 17 2010, 08:00 PM) I would say dark knight ftw , but inception is pretty close. The slow mo shot of the van wasnt a stylized option but rather done deliberately to keep track on what was happening across 4 levels. If that scene ended in 3 secs than the audience will have a hard time connecting the sequence of events that was happening across all 4 levels - which was obviously longer than 3 secs. The slow mo also reminds us that time in level one was moving ever so slowly compared to subsequent levels. It also act as a ticking clock that sets the film off to its climax as it signals to the team to quicken their pace. The redirection of scenes between each level was also crucial to show the audience what was happening in each level. Altering the shifting of the scenes would require a totally different plot altogether.Inception feels alot like eternal sunshine of the spotless mind and matrix which questions about reality. I didnt like the part where they always had to do a slow mo shot of the crew in the van falling down the bridge and shifting scenes to the other dreams. Doing once is ok, doing multiple times is very annoying and thats my main gripe with this movie. I love the gravity shifting part and zero gravity. |
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Jul 18 2010, 12:29 PM
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There's a strong case with Mal being right all along and her death was her escape to reality. A lot of times in the film you see his subconscious creeping in and interfering with his world. And most of the time, he couldnt comprehend what he was seeing. He know it was his projection but he seems puzzled to what it really means. Remember Cobb said the mind has some sort of antibody that tries to end a dream. If we think about it, this kinda make sense. No dream is perfect, we always tend to have some sort of anti climax in our dreams - in one form or another. In the film, this antibody exists persistently through out Cobbs supposedly dream endeavors. His wife is constantly harassing him and tries to kill off the object of his dreams. He is almost always getting hunted down by armed men. The chase even persists in reality where this violent projections are replaced by supposedly real life corporate assassins. Violence seems to follow him every where he goes. Perhaps its because his subconscious is actively trying to tell him to snap out of his dream but he being a master architect of dreams is constantly evading this notion. Creating new plots and possibilities on the fly.
Then theres the totem. We all seem to rely on this object to define the truth at the end of the film. But how reliable is this object ? This was never Cobb's totem to begin with, so he can never be sure of its true properties. Nolan repeatedly show this object to fool us viewers like a magician who is constantly flicking his hands to distract the viewers. Cobbs believes that his totem will behave in certain ways depending on where he is but here's the thing - if you are constantly in a dream, you are constantly forging the totem properties and making it function the way you believe it is supposed to function. In any case, I really feel the totem isnt a reliable tool due to its history. Having said this, the other alternatives are also possible. Which what makes this film utterly brilliant. You make your story as you pleases. |
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Jul 18 2010, 06:45 PM
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Not sure why we need to ask Nolan to do it any differently. He's never been a Burton type of director that relies on visual splendors. The film is a thriller heist and the generic settings is required here.
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Jul 18 2010, 07:09 PM
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The idea is that there are corporate saboteurs who can infiltrate your dream to steal or plant ideas. To accomplish this, you need to create a setting to convince the subjects that they arent dreaming. Creating anything remotely bizarre would jeopardize the entire mission. So altering the world as we know it is not really an option.
The purpose of armed projections was to create a sense of danger and villains i suppose. I do however agree that the snow part is a bit of a letdown. There isnt much going on here other than shoot em up. |
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Jul 18 2010, 07:15 PM
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Jul 18 2010, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(Vintage @ Jul 18 2010, 07:36 PM) But this isn't any hard sci fi film. I considered Inception as a noir with a sci fi setting. This is like Lost. There are always mysteries here and there and everyone is dying to know the answers of them but what we really care was the characters. Exactly. Couldnt have put it any better. |
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Jul 19 2010, 12:19 PM
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#9
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QUOTE(aspire2oo6 @ Jul 19 2010, 11:51 AM) everyone have their own prespective. For me i give this movie a 4/5 overall I agree with this. There is actually quite a lot to take from this film but to each their own i suppose. Some will despise this film for its lack of coherent storytelling, visual dynamism, emotions etc, while others find its rich plots infatuating and engaging. Personally, i love how after having just watched the film, when i was trying to figure out the entire film it was akin to waking up from a sleep and trying to recall exactly what you just dreamed about. It was surreal for me.In my opinion this movie tells us indirectly how powerful it is with a single idea in our brain. Imagine getting an idea from your imagination or dream then make it come to life. From this movie i get knowledge, entertainment and a better understanding on sub concious mind. The problem is not the movie it could be the user is not enough par to understand the hidden meaning maybe due to upbringing or knowledge in the subject. I apologize if i might offend anyone in any way its better for u to watch movie that do not require you to think like example ironman, spiderman,sailormoon,power ranger,GI JOE, transformers, and many more. Definately the movies will get your rating at least 4/5 for its special effect. |
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Jul 19 2010, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 19 2010, 05:19 PM) I already answered this. Padding! Time slows down even more in level 3, and to juxtapose this with the relatively faster time in level 2, they have to have the characters do something busy, like taking on entire teams of generic henchman, sniping, making their way through snow. The same can be said about the zero-gravity scenes in which we are shown nothing but Arthur moving the bodies from one location to the another. It's the only reason for all this bullshit action. Why couldn't they have just placed their point of entry right in the fortress? This is one (and maybe only) area of the script that's not only not up to Nolan's high standards, but also shockingly bad. I've only seen the film once so correct me if im wrong, but wasnt the fort originally a hospital ? Adriande designed a hospital to keep Fischer's dad there - the original plan was to simply usher Fischer into the hospital and let him freely chat with his father. But since Fischer was military trained to combat infiltration, the projections became more aggresive at each subsequent levels. So the hospital turned into a fort. They expected this (only after they found that Fischer was militarily trained) hence why they couldnt just appear inside it, that would had been a suicide. This prompted a more cautious approach, which is why needed to draw out the guards. |
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Jul 19 2010, 07:13 PM
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Jul 20 2010, 11:35 AM
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#12
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Wow countless pages later and still it seems we havent exhaust all possibilities. Have we even gotten full circle yet ? Familiar dilemma. Like the paradox stair case from the film ? Its possible that we can go and go on and on without ever finding the truth.
The more i think about this, the more i believe Nolan has cleverly 'incepted' the audience. The sheer amount of details and sequence while created to build up the plots (or padding if you insist), are also there to implant all sorts of little ideas of conflicting nature for us to become aware later. I want to know exactly what happens in the film and i think i do know, but reluctantly, i can never be sure of it. Here is an interesting take on the film that perceived it as a metaphor and underlines some significant revelations that some of us might have totally missed. While his opinion of what he perceived as real is up for debate, his take on what the film and its meaning makes it a very interesting and worth the read. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
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Jul 20 2010, 11:55 AM
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#13
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Jul 21 2010, 10:33 AM
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#14
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Jul 21 2010, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Jul 21 2010, 06:44 PM) haha dun be like me >.< Catharsis as Cobbs puts it. Both him and Fischer were going through similar process as they both seek to redeem themselves. Fischer had father-son issues. Cobb had love-guilt issues.gf complained me too focus... anyways there are humanities involved which i think is well portrayed by cobb... the issue about his past, him turning a new leaf, him changing cause of his kids and of course about his wife... i somehow feel that in the final level/ limbo he was incepted to forgive himself (Mal getting shot at) through emotions just like how he incepted fisher... |
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Jul 22 2010, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 22 2010, 11:58 AM) Damn, even the cast cant come up with a conclusive explanation to some of the concepts, like limbo. In regards to projections, i think thats the case. If you are part of the extractor team and aware of being in a dream then you can easily control what to project. But there is always the danger of your subconscious becoming self aware and tries to end the dream. This fits into Cobb's explanation that if you try to change things rapidly, then the subconscious becomes rapidly aware of what is going on and becomes haywire. Shit, and I was convinced the dreamer couldn't leave his dream space without it collapsing. If that were true, and level 3 was indeed Fischer's dream, that whole level would be kaput the moment he went into limbo. Oh well, at least we don't have to take Rao's answers as gospel. I think perhaps, the others could control their projections. Fischer, unaware he was in a dream, couldn't. Cobb couldn't, because he simply couldn't control his subconscious. That dream in paris where Cobb was teaching Araidne? I think he deliberately filled the space with normal projections, just to give Ariadne a feel of the real dream world. But he couldn't control the projection of Mal. Anyway, I know why the impact when the van went into the bridge's railing didn't wake up the others, but how come it didn't wake Arthur up? He was conscious in the level directly below. I dont think Dileep is right about Fischer being the dreamer. He was the subject for all the levels; meaning it was his subconscious populating the dream levels that was created by various team members. The snow level was indeed Eames's dream but it was Fischer's subconscious populating the level. This help explains the various security inconsistencies in the film. When in level one, his military training didnt kick in until he was kidnapped. When he realizes he was in danger, his subconscious tries to set him free of the anxiety attack. Once he was knocked out in level one, his dream resets to level 2 which also resets the 'alarm' in level 2 (but not in level 1). Initially in level 2, his military training was kept in check due to him not being aware of what of what was going on. But as Cobb explains to him about what was was going on, his anxiety starts to creep once again and this sets off his military self defense mechanism. In level 3, he was fully aware that he was in a dream and this right away triggers his defense mechanism and it goes into search and destroy mode. |
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Jul 22 2010, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 22 2010, 03:22 PM) Good explanation! This is because the kicks need to be synchronized in each and prior levels. Arthur needed to set off the bomb as the van hits the barrier, that way the falling sensation from the 5th to 4th floor coincides with the falling sensation from the van in free fall. The tricky part is that he needed to time the explosion at a precise moment. Too soon (before the van hitting the barrier) will cause the team not feeling the kick from level one. If he sets off the bomb after the van hitting the barrier, the team will fail to fall because of the absence of gravity. But when the van hits the barrier, he was still fighting off the henchmen and missed the initial kick completely. But the van was still in free fall, so there was still time to execute another kick on level 2. The elevator was that improvisation and it was to coincides when the van hits the water. But still, I want to know why didn't the van's impact act as a kick to wake Arthur up? Likewise, the collapsing of the fort was to coincide with the elevator plunging in level 2. The music was the timer. Both Arthur and Eames sets off their respective charges as the music ends. The defibrillator was the kick to pull Fischer from Limbo, but Ficher himself needed a kick in limbo for it to work. The lightning was the queue of the kick so Ariande pushes him off the ledge to coincides with it. When Eames sets off the bomb (the kick), it affected limbo and causes the buildings to collapse, Ariande took it as the queue and makes the jump - she gets back to level 3. At this point, Saito died and got lost in limbo and Cobb chose not to kick himself back to level 3. When Ariande awakes in level 3, the fort collapsing on her coincidentally with the the lift plunging pulls her, along with both Ficher and Eames, back to level 2. The water in level one and the moment of impact of the lift in level 2 brings all the surviving members back to level 1. |
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Jul 22 2010, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 22 2010, 05:25 PM) The way I understand it, if you give someone a kick in level 1 while he is in level 2, it wakes him up in level 1. If you give someone a kick in level 1 while he's in level 3 or further down, he doesn't get up, because you first have to wake him up in level 2. Since Arthur was awake in level 2, the van's impact and plunge should have brought him up to level 1, no? No what im saying is that in order to get back one level you need to initiate 2 kicks; one in prior level and another in current level. Think of it as a push and pull effect. During the heist mission, the team needed both the pull and push kicks to traverse between the levels. A normal kick from top level is not enough to bring you back. The van plunging was an incomplete kick because Arthur didnt set off the bomb. The van plunging has a pull effect, but the initial sequence didnt sync with a push kick in level 2 because Arthur wasnt ready to initiate the kick. If the team didnt venture into level 3, they still would have to blow up the floor to coincide with the van plunging. |
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Jul 23 2010, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE(defaultname365 @ Jul 23 2010, 11:09 AM) Arthur simulated free fall with the lift, at that moment why didn't anything happen to the team in Level 3. Is 'simulated' still = not having gravity? I took it as the body in level 2 wasnt experiencing direct zero gravity in level 2 but the results of the extreme sensation of the body being suddenly weightless in level 1. Whatever happens at a particular level, the effect of it is reduced exponentially at the next level. Its the same logic that why a kick can only wake up a person directly one level below it. Why the pain from Saito's wound is reduced at the next lower levels. When Arthur sets off the bomb, Im pretty sure he setup the charges at the underside of the lift - meaning the lift was going upwards, causing the sleeping body to straight away slam down towards the bottom floor of the lift. By this logic, the body wasnt experiencing a free fall since they 'felt' their body against the hard floor of the lift.Lol... funny pics. |
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Jul 23 2010, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 23 2010, 12:53 PM) Damn I wasn't aware of this at all! Was this explained somewhere in the movie? Can't believe I missed it. But moving on, when you die in a dream, you dont need a "pull" from the level above to wake you up? How come when Cobb was dunk in the tub of water early on, he didn't need any "push" from the level below to wake up? Or are we to simply assume upon seeing the gushing water he just killed himself? I think this is the bit of the film where you have to kinda need to perceive it viscerally and intellectually. You can try to explain it all intellectually, but it seems to only make your brain hurts more than anything lol. Its what makes the film a very interesting concept, it works viscerally and intellectually. Not one or the other, or either, but both at the same time. But for the sake of discussion, the way kick works (at least to my understanding) seem to vary depending on the sedatives being used. Under normal sedative, dieing seem to be a kick of its own and has a push effect - it pushes you back to previous level. Its probably the easiest way to traverse between levels when not on Yusuf's sedative but what if something has gone wrong and you need to extract your team from one level to another without them getting killed ? This is where the film introduced the concept of 'safe' intentional kick. I think it works like the telephone in The Matrix; you need the transmitting and receiving end. In the bathtub scene at the start of the film, Arthur and Nash wanted Cobb to wake up - so they dropped in him into the water. The kick here works just like the van later on in the film, it has 2 separate kick effects; The fall and the moment of impact. The initial kick was ineffective because the distance of the chair to the water was so negligible that it didnt give Cobb the chance to simulate a kick of his own. Also the lack of coordination like the music queue later on, made it impossible for him to know when to the initiate his own kick. He could of just kill himself to get out but he didnt. The water gushing in was the effect of the 2nd kick and this combined with the kick in level one, kicks him out of that level. Im not sure whether its death itself or just the water enveloping him. Perhaps the cause is inconsequential but the synchronization of jolts that matters the most. The minds (exist in number of instances) need to collectively experience the jolt. This is the reason why Arthur didnt wake up when the van first plunge; even tho his mind was experiencing the jolt from the van plunging, his second mind on the 2nd level didnt experience any. He needed to experience jolts in both levels to snap out of that level. QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 23 2010, 12:53 PM) But as all saw, there was absolutely NO gravity in level 2 whatsoever. That's as direct as level 2 being directly affected by the free-fall in level 1! Surely they must have felt something in level 3. I dunno, sometimes I feel some of the rules in the film were thought up to simply service the plot. They did feel something was amiss. The avalanche was that effect of the body suddenly becoming weightless in level 2. It was in a way a very soft kick. Thats how they knew they missed the kick. But yeah, they werent physically affected by it. The logic behind this is that effects are exponentially reduced in subsequent levels. There is no way you can justify this, its all speculative and no one can know for sure. But if you want to accept it at face value then you need to accept that perhaps the law of physics and whatever mechanics that exist in the world of dreams is working as intended. That for them to be floating like they were in level 2, their bodies needed to experience the intense fall of the van in level one.This post has been edited by hfi: Jul 23 2010, 04:34 PM |
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