1. I had the Bravia X 40" before, the KLV-40X200 and the KLV-40X350, and this Z beats them both, IMO, in terms of aesthetics and size. The "Midnight sky" bezel is dark blue in color, although it looks more towards black than blue. The bezel is "sprinkled" with tiny flecks of sparkling material that only shows itself upon close inspection, which lends itself to making this unit looking classy. Also good news to me is that, the speaker settings have been placed under the panel instead of by the two sides, reducing the width further. I'm space-challenged when it comes to the location of this unit, so it works even better with those additional tolerances.

2. The Z still uses the contemporary Sony-style navigation system, with pressing the subsequent buttons to access a function, and then stepping through them to access the deeper option tree. Only the new Bravia X incorporates the Xross MediaBar style ala PS3/PSP. This is a personal choice, but I'd prefer the old navigation system than the Xross Mediabar system. Reason being, I am using the Harmony ONE Universal Remote, and with the Xross MediaBar, programming the "Activities" into the Harmony ONE would be virtually impossible, not to mention, having to wait for the "Activities" actions to self-navigate itself through the Xross MediaBar system. Others may prefer this, but I've been spoiled by the Harmony ONE's excellent "Activities" one-button-turns-everything-on system.

3. 3 x HDMI ports capable of up to 1080p/24, as well as 2 x Component inputs capable up to 1080p/60. Connecting via HDMI allows "Vivid", "Standard" and "Cinema" Picture modes, while Components discards "Vivid". This is a step up against the Bravia X of old, where the Components are restricted to 1080i only.

4. In essense, the KLV-40Z450A is a stripped-down version of the KDL-40X4500 which is yet to appear on store shelves in the US, and a close cousin to the X1 Japanese series with the addition of Motionflow 200Hz. What all this mean is that, this set is SPECIFICALLY MADE for the South East Asia region, with the hindsight to add the latest Motionflow 200Hz feature only available on the latest XBR7 model (US), or the XR1 model in Japan. Even the XR1 model in Japan still only incorporates Motionflow 120Hz, and not the 200Hz step up.

What is Motionflow, you ask? Motionflow technology basically fills in the gap between refresh rates of the material you are watching with additional frames, making the image looks contiguous, continuous and smooth. We have the first step towards more lifelike film quality video with the advent of 1080p/24, and further enhanced by the 100Hz/120Hz refresh rates, and now Sony doubles that. Why the difference of 100/120Hz is due to how HDTV transmissive material being broadcasted, nomenclatured as 50/60Hz of the respective resolution (720p/1080p 50/60Hz). Sony effectively quadruples this, making the action onscreen looks silky smooth. This however is an acquired taste, just like how Malaysian like durians and the Westerners abhors them. Personally, I love Motionflow, and setting it up to the highest setting sets up a lifelike, "Holy shit, it looks like it's been shot by a camcorder" kinda look, that lends itself to like seeing it live before your eyes.

This effect also spills its benefits to any other source materials other than Blu-ray. I have an Onkyo DV-HD805 HD-DVD player equipped with Silicon Optics ReonVX upscaling video processor, which does 1080p/24, and together with Motionflow 200Hz, it absolutely fools the eyes into thinking that you're watching upconverted DVDs(pristine reference materials only) as a High Definition source. I've also an Apple TV connected via HDMI, set to upconvert any movies streamed to it to 1080p. Coupled with Motionflow 200Hz, even ripped DVDs (into MP4 formats) benefits from the film-lifelike PQ. And this is from movie DVDs ripped using standard presets on a Mac to the Apple TV, no magic fairy dust or absurdly high video bitrate settings. The movie may still look below-HD standards, but Motionflow 200Hz lends itself a "fluidity" quality that is missing before this, when it is obviously viewed as "video", and not "film".

For further simplified example of Motionflow 200Hz, click the link on my sig below.

5. As I've said before, this model is missing the Bravia widgets and other internet-related features on the American-based X4500 series, which is to me, is not a huge loss at all, since using those features requires dragging Ethernet cable to the unit, and I'm not too keen on that idea. I'm keeping my HDTVs as a source to view my movies and media, anything else beyond that is just icing on the cake. I still get to eat the cake.

6. For best results, and if you dont have access to ISF calirators/calibrating devices, these settings from TweakTV.com works wonders. Blu-rays like Kung Fu Panda just LEAPS OFF THE SCREEN with these settings, and if you want to tweak it further, without going for calibrators, use the Digital Video Essentials you can get from Amazon. I've set both tweaks on the "Standard" and "Cinema" Picture modes respectively, and IMO, still prefer the settings from TweakTV.com. This is of course, heavily dependant on your room environment and lighting configurations. I view my movies in my room, totally dark.

Other ports on this model includes Digital Media Port which can be used with Sony's own NWZ-A82X series Video Walkmans, in which a special cable is needed to do so. My next trip to Osaka should bag me this cable.

I'm also planning to get proper ISF calibration done on this unit, it is a waste not to do this right, and have the colors, brightness, contrast and sharpness run awry. With the two calibration options I've used, it is as close as how it is intended, but not quite, and I'm already extremely pleased with the results. Cant wait to professionally calibrate it!

In summary, previous benefits of film-like looks was secluded only to the HD materials like Blu-ray and HD-DVDs, with post-processing done by the players themselves, and the TVs displaying the end result. With Motionflow 200Hz, this benefit is further extended to other materials as well. Upconversions to 1080p is again up to the players, but while Blu-rays and HD-DVDs have the 24p mode to allow that silky-smooth film-like look, other non-HD materials now can enjoy the same benefits with Sony's Motionflow 200Hz.

End result? I've just hosted a Lost Season 5 TV Show night event at my place for our usual TV Show group of friends, and they were astonished at how film/lifelike the episodes are, and these episodes are just the normal Standard Definition version purchased from Apple's iTunes! Mission accomplished!

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 27 2009, 03:51 AM

Its best you include pictures as well..makes it more interesting..haha...anyway, nice review...I'm sure you'll be watching movies everyday this CNY.



This post has been edited by azbro: Jan 27 2009, 05:55 PM

Pictures wont do any good, since pictures wont be able to show the advantage of Motionflow 200Hz. I'm already discovering renewed interest in watching older movies and TV Shows that were previous was a pain to watch because of the jarring framerates.

Blu-rays? Blissful!

bro just asking
how much does this tv worth?

RM8,499. Comes with free HDMI cable, and other knick-knacks like miniature gold sets and other freebies. Also 6 different vouchers to purchase other Sony items, for example, an RM1,000 voucher discount towards the BDP-S350 BD player.

40inches IMHO too small for such nice fullHD panels. .maybe something like 50-55inches would be more like it....

Oooops forgot to put. Consequently, I have a 40" Bravia X KLV-40X200 for sale, after the Z came into the house. Asking for RM4k FIRM. Not in a hurry to sell it nor do I need to sell it either, I still love the Bravia X's total glass frame around the bezel. Not putting it as a [WTS] either, seeing how prude the crowd here are when it comes to money these days.

A simpler, more layman way of explaining Motionflow 200Hz can be found on this Youtube video:-



Have a gander at it.

New TV, congrats bro!

Not really familiar with LCDs lately, is this the one with LED backlight?

Nope, still WCG-CCFL. LED, and by extension, the Triluminous RGB LED technology as well, are the domains of the X series exclusively, and only XBR7 and beyond.

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Added on January 27, 2009, 10:08 pmIt is all about the viewing distance.

Watching a movie from a 32 incher from 100 meters away is as worthless as pressing your face against the Panasonic 103" Plasma you see at Best Denki, you're already pixel-peeping. Your comment on 40" being small for FullHD may hold water during the early days where image rendering and video processing engines can discern and produce high quality HD PQ enought to warrant going up in size for full appreciation. Those days are over with the new engines like BE2 and the other next-gen video processing engines from other brands.

Try watching this Z at 20 meters away, and I agree the Full HD effects diminishes to the point where it is indistinguishable from 720p. But I dont view it that far away, I watch while seated on a couch 2m away. Any resolution improvement at that distance is appreciable, even at such panel size. Otherwise, Sony would already have discontinued the 40" and just carry on with the 46" and above for Full HD.

Your room configuration is not the same as mine, so dont slap your IMOs and take it as the same as mine. I've already mentioned before that space is a commodity I am lacking in the location where this Z is being displayed.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 27 2009, 10:08 PM

stringfellow, whats next....Dvico?

Next wishlist kot tapi recession nih

After comparing those 50hz and 100hz LCD TV, i really dunno this 200hz really worth the money or not..
100hz LCD Tv even cant remove movie judder..

This post has been edited by accs_centre: Jan 28 2009, 09:00 AM

ah yes viewing distance, (and also viewing cone angle, wider the better if the pixel density in the screen is sufficient to avoid seeing pixels instead of video images, i.e. full HD pixel density)..

for full HD, one can sit at 1.5-1.8x (IMHO means I like sitting at 1.5-1.8x range)

I sit 3meters from screen and the screen size is between 70-90inches diagonal depending on source material I use.

but since you said you sit at 2meter distance, then 40inches diag screen is like 1meter, i..e 2x.. I guess in your case of room size restriction, 40inches TV would do just fine. cheers!

This post has been edited by ar188: Jan 28 2009, 11:48 AM

I rather go for Pioneer KURO 42" compare to sony X/Z series.

that all sounds good except for the size of 40" is err..... just ok i guess

you want to kena taruh or what!

anyway the TS said he watch from 2meter distance, so I think 40inches fullHD pretty ok lor..

exactly what i said... it's ok lor.. keke

Relax, nobody wants to taruh anyone. Before anyone starts expressing their "I prefer X over Y" statements, put yourself in my shoes. I am space constrained. Hell, I prefer that new 150" Panasonic wall, but is it possible to fit all that in my space-challenged area? Think people, think!

This HDTV is also for gaming as well, all that gee-whiz-bang features helps. Yes, I like Pioneer TVs as well, which is why the PRO-151FD Kuro stands in my living room in LA. Different needs breeds different equipments. Living room, no space constraints, hell, I can even slap in a projector if I'm into it (which I'm not, black is never black on a projector).

Again. My config. 2 meter away viewing distance. You want me to put a 50 incher over my face for that?

Fcuk all these brandings and chest thumping about "my screen is bigger than your, so nyah nyah nyah!" nonsense. The one I'm excited about is not the age-old nonsense about screen sizes or viewing distances, I'm excited about Motionflow 200Hz. To put it in simpler terms, Motionflow 200Hz, does to non-HD material what 24p does for HD, that missing silky-smoothness. I have a Video-On-Demand system already set up for all my non-HD material, and with Motionflow 200Hz, this totally changes the viewing experience.Older movies becomes exciting to watch back again, to put it in simpler terms.

So please, if you have nothing to add to the topic other than petty nonsense such as your own preference about screen sizes, don't add them here at all.

And what's even more important, Have you seen Motionflow 200Hz in action at all? We all can open our mouths and lift our fingers to type, but all those mean nothing if you're commenting based on your "preferences" and not experience.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 28 2009, 12:53 PM

Almost 2 month already running my Dvico HDM7000 A with my Bravia X450A. That day tested using My Dvico at Sony Style D Curve, New Z series cannot lawan X Series la.

I saw one demo unit being played at Senn. Wah lau.. super clear and the normal jagginess no longer obvious. Normally for lcd tv, if u got nearer to the tv, u will notice color noises, but this model has very very little color noise. I am impressed. However price, as expected is higher than the normal version...

Nobody says the Z can compete with the X. Get off your fcuking horse. The X remains, and still is, the Signature series of the Bravia lineup. It is just that I was sold on the concept of Motionflow 200Hz, that I brought myself to get the Z. If you want to be anal and start comparing numbers then, your Motionflow PRO is only 100Hz, compared to the Z's 200Hz. But then again, if an RM8,499 HDTV can demolish your X, then you'd be in serious problem and starts checking if your purchase is wise, would'nt it? Put your X next to my Pioneer Kuro 9th Gen. PRO-151FD and see who "cannot lawan" who.

The whole objective of this thread is lost when it comes to folks like you. This is never about who has the bigger e-penis, it is always about Sony's Motionflow and how it effects even non-SD materials. But hey, your's longer right?

Which SenQ? I whisper a prayer of thanks every time I see HDTVs being portrayed as they are supposed to, with connection to the right sources, and displayed for its strengths. Some showroom just simply want to push TVs without thinking of properly setting them up to allow potential buyers to objectively judge them without bias. All they do is pump up the setting to "Vivid" and hope the buyers gets blinded by the colorful colors and blinded into buying them as well. I for one am not asking them to even go towards proper calibrations for their TVs, it is after all, their job to sell TVs, but at the very least, display them at their proper strength and not overblown them with colors so red, you can see it bleed out of the screen, or so bright, I got "blinded by their supposed awesomeness" , to quote Po, the Kung Fu Panda.

Buying a TV is of personal experience, some buyers prefer certain characteristics only offered by certain TV types, plasma or LCDs, and later OLED and Lasers. I've seen Sony's OLED screens and the Mitsubishi's LASER HDTVs in showrooms in Osaka and Tokyo, and each and every one of these types offers their own strengths and weaknesses. It is up to the buyer to go for their pros and live with their cons. Even within a particular TV type, there are comparable differences between them. Samsung LCDs tend to display a more blue bias than others, while Toshibas and Sharp colors are warmer in comparison. Sure you can calibrate these out, but it all comes to the personal preference and choice of the buyer itself.

Anybody wants 46w400a?

are you giving it away for free? ok, i'll pick it up right away!
hehehehe

Haha. Might wanna give this up for 40 incher Z450A. By the way, hows the PQ without motionflow as compared to W series?

The PQ should be slightly in favour of the Z. They both use 10-bit panels and the same video processing engine (BE2), but the contrast value works in favour of the Z, resulting in deeper blacks. Also I believe, from reading up the forums at AVSforums, that the Z uses a new panel compared to the W, because of the emphasis on Motionflow 200Hz. Mind you, there are still very minor clouding and mura (but not to the extent of the W), but once calibrated, it should not detract from the viewing experience.

Motionflow really makes this unit worth it. No more blurring when camera pans around fast, or during fast moving scenes, during football matches for example. Not that I am a fan of football matches anyway....

String, is the clouding visible when u watch your TV at night on a "dim/dark" room? I understand u can do some calibration to reduce it when that usually involves turning the brightness down... will be interested to see how the Z series fares in this field. The clouding was the main reason why I sold my W400 away as I was driving me nuts.

From what i understand, the clouding became less noticable after sometime. Perhaps calibration will reduce it to negligible levels. Initially I was worried when it first arrived. After calibrated using recommended settings, its negligible. But it wont help if we nitpick. I understand its alot of money, but these are the limitations of LCD.

Yeah, I've read on the W's clouding defect on AVSForums, as well as TweakTV, it drove a lot of them nuts there too. Mind you, W is awesome in its class, only the clouding mars otherwise a perfect report card. Mine is minor at most, thankfully, and after a while, it gradually reduces altogether. I dont tweak or calibrate to totally remove them, I calibrate as according to the recommended settings on the DVE disc. Test them out at SonyStyle, I did ask them to do the same thing there.

Oh and one thing, if they allow you to, ask them if you can do a "factory reset" on the display unit there. Once done, you will notice there is a setting for "Home" and "Store", which I believe the display unit there, would almost definitely set to "Store". "Store" setting would definitely cater to the brightly lit atmosphere there, which definitely means overblown contrast and brightness, oversaturated colors , and most definitely set on "Vivid" picture mode. Try set it back to "Home" and "Standard", with color temperature to "Warm 2". I find that with that setting, it is acceptable, and more resembles a properly calibrated set. Of course, to be precise, you'd have to tinker with the "Backlight" and especially the "Sharpness", even at "Standard", it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy over the recommended value.

QFT. The clouding definitely will still be there, it depends on your luck on getting a unit with minimal smears. Sometimes it is the overblown setting at high contrast and brightness and backlight that induce these defects to come out. But i'll take clouding over shitty blacks on projectors any time of the day.

Yeah, i did set my W400 to home when I had the unit. If I were to watch the TV during the day, then that unit would have scored a perfect 10.. but since I'm only at home during the night, I can definitely see the clouding even at low backlight settings. Maybe its just my luck that I get one with clouding levels that were unacceptable to me.

Oh well, glad u like your new Z series. :-)
Have fun!

How many inches were your LCD? What did u get instead after selling off w400?

40" W400.
Sold it and got myself a Panasonic 42" PY800. Pretty satisfied so far.
Not to say its perfect but at least I don't get distracted by the clouding issue anymore.

Good choice on that PY800. Was on my consideration list as well, before I made the final cut. How is it power consumption-wise?

wow..definately a good choice for gaming purpose or football fans as well

support~! imagine i own this tv for ps3 gaming experience~ wow..unbelivable ~ sure damn excieted~

currently i'm collecting some $ to get a lower end sony bravia 1st

the tv u discussing is brilliant~ in term of price~ (for me) not able to pay such amount even with 0% installment plan~

Thank you. Godspeed on your Bravia purchase as well.

ooooo
now i know y liao la....
i was at spore sony 2 moons back i think
they were displaying a few HDTV sided by side, all showing hancock
but only one unit which display the image that looks like taken by 1080 camcorder, i was so puzzled, i tot its the settings. cos no matter how i tune, i could never get the pop up as that

so tat model tat i saw shud be the Z series is it?

Haha LOL yup rx330, that "camcorder" look, exactly! It is like I said, an acquired taste, some people like it, some don't. Some are purist and want or like to maintain that "video" look, others welcome enhanced manipulated image. I like to have the option of both. What's even more important, this is a viable option for those looking to improve upon standard definition materials.

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Added on January 30, 2009, 5:36 pmHaha LOL yup rx330, that "camcorder" look, exactly! It is like I said, an acquired taste, some people like it, some don't. Some are purist and want or like to maintain that "video" look, others welcome enhanced manipulated image. I like to have the option of both. What's even more important, this is a viable option for those looking to improve upon standard definition materials.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 30 2009, 05:36 PM

Lol, I have no idea on the power consumption... don't think it matters much since I'm not the type that turns it on the whole day.. max about 2hrs a day.

Hmm.. I gather most of your standard def materials that u want improved with the 200Mhz are those TV series that u purchase on iTunes?

This post has been edited by welwitchia: Jan 30 2009, 06:07 PM

450W vs 230W, bro. On days of current economic climate like this, it does count in the long run. But then again, like you said, if you only turn it on like 2hours a day, it should not even matter.

My SD materials comes from my 300 odd DVDs and yes, iTunes. I have a VOD system set up with Apple TVs, and a 4 TB repository in the form of a WD NAS, so the addition of the Z into this setup just makes it sweeter. I've written a thread on my VOD system I build in the Apple section. It's modular, and soon will be upgraded twofold in term of storage size capacity.

me cant afford...

If can't afford and have nothing clever to post, then just STFU will ya?

urgh...so rough...

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Added on January 30, 2009, 9:59 pmu also like dun hv something to talk about..cabutzzz

This post has been edited by tepetlah: Jan 30 2009, 10:00 PM

They were showing this at JB Hifi and i just figure it's it's better motion adaptive interlacing and cadence detection rather than "real" motion enhancement. It would be cheaper to turn off the processing and get it done on a HTPC with a graphics card.

I never got what these "HZ" boosters ever did except increase the screen refresh rate and reduce eye stress due to perceived flicker. Technically you have a source with a 24 to 60 Frames per second of image data. The only way you can actually fill up a refresh rate of 200HZ is to interpolate data, but raw image and motion data can't be interpolated with current hardware on the fly, so it's generally down to the CODEC to do so.

The youtube demonstration in my opinion is misleading, because the source does not change, it's still 24 to 60 FPS.

So conclusion is that these TV sets generally just, repeat frames at set intervals, which is actually...well pretty lame. And heck interpolation actually ruins some most movies because FPS is chosen specifically by the director and enhanced during post production to further the effect, watch the Dark Knight for a good example of this.

I swear TV company are going to have to deal with consumer lashback one of these day for lying through their teeth about such simple things. Granted, "new algos" isn't impressive as a marketing tagline

empire, motionflow is frame interpolation (creation of a "intra" frame) .. (doesn't repeat same frame that would be same frame insertion)

saw it in action (the "Z" 200hz one anyway) last weekend at a sony store , watched on a few BD titles..
movies shot on film with 24fps looks "fake" in a non-film kind of way, when this feature is turned on.. like it's shot on HD digital video cams for TV series (or low end movies)..
Ok, it looks surreal like real life (some will like it, so can't really speak for others whether its better or not)
but I believe it would look good on video sources other than film but nothing to demo it on dat day.

and since most of my BD material is 1080p24 film based (except for Crank and those Nat Geo/planet earth/BBC stuff) then I can see myself turning off this feature more often than not.



This post has been edited by ar188: Jan 30 2009, 10:35 PM

There's 2 ways you can do interpolation IIRC, looks like that old man babling about it all day was useful after all (thanks Bruce)

one is time based interpolation, where you insert the same frames, but at varying time lenghts to give a better perception.

one is composite, which means you calculate 2 similarly likely frames and composite em together.

Both aren't good for movies in my opinion, both are in fact not "real" interpolation, and both are really "Cheap" methods to increasing perceived motion PQ and bring nothing new to the table. It's not like they didn't do the same for 120HZ and hell that wasn't even impressive.

And before i forget, they ruin the crank and slow effect directors often employ in movies, much to my chagrin.

This post has been edited by empire23: Jan 30 2009, 10:36 PM

Wait, why are you selling this off? Clouding? IMO, if you already have this and not plagued by the clouding defect as described by Welwitchia, you should stick to it. Times are tough these days and I myself am having a hard time selling off the 40X200. That one may end up as a kitchen TV.

Haha, the dreaded sitcom effect.

Directors play around with their film cameras to give better effects of motion and movement, and also to portray the gravity of a situation, like maxing the frames, forward cranks, variable speed cranking and so on. Frame interpolation is generally not intelligent enough to see where the director is using an effect to better portray a scene, blame unintelligent math lol. I used the Dark Knight as an example because it's quite evident in the Imax scenes.

Which reminds me.....i always wanted a specialized video processor that could read off a movie profile to tailor the processing for max enjoyment. Sad it applies only to games for now.

Sorry. Its BEST, One U new wing, top floor. hahaha.. always make mistake cos their shop concept looks the same

Yup, was assuming you're talking about SenQ, no shop named Senn around either. Did Best Denki just dropped their "Denki" moniker, and stick with the first word? Easy to get mistaken though, now every stores look the same, be it Harvey, BEST, or SenQ. Same ID perhaps?

So to sum up, this Z display sucks?

Nope. Already running this. Poor man's version of the Kaleidescape System. If I hadn't been involved knee-deep in the current setup, Dvico is an good alternative.

There's always turning off the Motionflow lol

Solution Attained.

My advice would be to put a priority on the IQ of the LCD panel first (including the back lighting), the IQ of processing second and all other gimmicks 3rd. I has Avivo which has perfect HQV HD scores, so i'm only worried about no1.

Will somebody get Professor Emmett Brown back to his cage before he fries anyone with his 1.21 Jigawatt brainstorming ideas?

Watching Astro, particularly EPL matches does not benefit fully from the Motionflow technology., thanks to the abysmal quality of the Astro transmission. Instead of a blurry mess that of a player running up the field, all Motionflow can do is clean up the mess and soften it up, so you'd get a nice, clean mess. The clarity wasn't there to begin with, so no matter how much the TV tries, it still cant compensate for the abomination that is Astro transmissions.

Still far away from that shinny PhD and ivory tower professorship. Gimme another 3 or 4 years. I cans do it! Maybe!

I think the fact here is simple, motion flow is generally a cheap gimmick to sucker people, it's the same as when the 100HZ TV screens came out, same with the 120 HZ LCDs and so on. It is teh sux, but dolts like big numbers and catchy tag lines. It's like saying my Ipod has "Negative Feedback", "Loop technology" and "Low Z input", when they're all just fancy words to describe a wire and 2 resistors connected from in to out. Lesson is, don't fall for the marketing hype. And before someone tells me "you have to see it for yourself, thus you have to buy the damned thing first!", shut ye pie hole, i already have too many monitors here and hell i don't even watch TV except for maybe 9 News and lousy documentaries on SBS and heck, what they've done, the glorious powers of the FPU processing have done years ago.

It doesn't do much for shitty TV and screws some good movies. I think the point stands for itself and it's what i've been trying to state here. You want a discussion on Motionflow, well there it wasss.

I was thinking of getting Z after that. or a KURO. I'm using this as PC monitor, gaming and ofcourse BD

what is KURO, pls PM

anyway how do u connect ur console to LCD? or BD to ur LCD?

use any specific cable? HDMI->DVI?

Which one, Z or Kuro? Connecting to Pc is the only thing I have not tried this yet, so I would not know. There are threads on AVSForums stating some scan line issues at the corners as well as discoloration when you use the Z with a PC. You may want to look that up first.

Pioneer Kuro. Google that. Deep black and colors. No regrets whatsoever getting it for my LA home.

Straight HDMI-HDMI is the best for consoles and BD players.

Just slowly back away from that rambling lunatic about his supposed knowledge superiority and what we should do about our likes and preferences. The Z has its strengths and weaknesses, and when paired with good material, it shows. But also bear in mind, the images produced by this technology is an acquired taste, not everyone will like it, but nice to have the option there.

A different take on the Z, from CNET Australia. This Z is still so new, that reviews are hard to come by.

http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/lcd/0,239035307,339293509,00.htm



Bear in mind, this is the Z4500 version, is which the Malaysian Z450 is based of, minus the USB and Ethernet port and built-in HD tuner.

Name calling? That's all you got?

In the areas of audio, people always argue with reason of acquired taste, it's an argument used >9000 times over, and the usual answer is that if you're fed shit everyday, eventually it becomes tolerable and in some cases acceptable. Doesn't mean it's good. But like i indicated in the first post, like the same techs before it, it's a gimmick. Soon enough there'll be a 400 HZ screen with the same features. Any different? Probably not. If you bought the TV for the panel quality and other features, cool, but thread's theme was on motion flow and put my 2 cents in.

This is a forum, not your playbox where everyone's your yes man.

I understand that people have the need to "defend" their purchases, we all don't like buying lemons, or finding out we bought lemons, sure even i got defensive when i bought the craptastic X1800XT lol, but you seem to take this insult to a new level, pray tell....

another review of the z series : hdtvtest.co.uk

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl40z...20081124136.htm

Conclusion

The deep blacks, accurate colours and low input lag on Sony’s latest high-end (W series and above) LCD HDTVs need no further praise, so we’re left to comment on the Sony KDL40Z4500’s 200Hz Motionflow implementation.

The good news? There are surprisingly few kinks for what effectively is the first incarnation of 200Hz MCFI technology. Now the not-so-good news: any resultant improvement in motion clarity isn’t really leaps and bounds ahead of what 100Hz LCD televisions currently offer when it comes to real-life viewing.

So while the Sony KDL40Z4500 holds the current record for the highest motion resolution we have measured on an LCD TV so far, pound-for-pound we think that the Sony KDL40W4500 (equipped with 100Hz Motionflow) represents better value-for-money.

Okay, okay, you're right, you're always right! Can we get along with this? Somebody obviously been fishing for a response from the start, could not leave the thread alone.

Person A says Motionflow "doesnt do much for shitty TV and screws with some movie". Another person, Person B, have the Z, been using Motionflow with his materials since his purchase and *gasp* likes it.

I chose to end that "discussion" with you here. Pretty much obvious from my non-response to your posts previously until the "hook" was forced into the proverbial fish's mouth. If that is still not clear, I dont want to talk to you. Any clearer than that, I'd have to spell it out one by one. Or do the most civil thing to do and put you on the ignore list, until your lackeys comes here and quote your every post and forces me to read your bile-ridden posts whether I like it or not.

Jeeez!


This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 31 2009, 12:11 PM

Agreed, in fact the W was award-winning model. Until the clouding issue sets in. Search the net, look the forum up, this has been plagueing W owners to the point of selling them off, in the case of Welwitchia here.

My Z spends more of its time chewing up contents from iTunes, Blu-rays and games. That last example given on EPL matches, is whatever short impression I gather from the very little time I had plugging in Astro this the Z and observing what it can do clean the image up.

As for the review, from what I can interpret, there are improvements on the 200Hz MCFI, only not as big an improvement compared to what the 100HZ has. Still, there are improvements. Only thing is, it may not entice current 100Hz LCD owners enough to dump their current set for the new 200Hz models. "Pound for pound", I'd assume the reviewer is talking about the price factor, not the weight.

Well then, counter, provide proof, do tests, pixel peep and so on. If you're just saying it's better, it's hard to swallow, pop in a HQV HD BD and test, then turn motion flow on and off, that's a start, record your observations, list them. Geez and we're supposed to be in the age of discussion and science. Although the idea of 200000000 HZ is total bull, improved video processing from the processor might not be and is worth looking at and either way might be a saving grace, who knows until you sit down and tell yourself "maybe the enhancement lies elsewhere"

An idea is never useful unless attacked from all sides and you don't seem to like your ideas being attacked. BooHoo. It's a public forum. Sadinnit?

You dont like artificial image manipulation, I do. Let's end it at that.

Yes, you are always right. Can we move along now?

And according to Andyz's provided link(thanks Andyz!):-

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl40z...20081124136.htm



And from the benchmark test results:-



Good news for those lamenting W's earlier defects, Z cleared all that out.

Who says i don't?

Haih, neither did i say anywhere i was right, i just stated my points. Why you bring in name calling, i surely don't know. I didn't even call you names lol.

Haih, oversensitive much?

This could more accurate describe this whole mess more than it is implied. Characters including as well. No prize for who is who.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 31 2009, 12:39 PM

I want a Voyager version. Never liked TNG.

Dont forget to scroll through the Youtube ticker roll at the bottom of that youtube clip I posted, there's a whole slew of single- and double facepalm to commemorate this occasion!

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 31 2009, 01:13 PM

Moooooooving on with the Z:-

http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/review/2...-46in-LCD-TV/p1

Interesting excerpts from the article:-




And for those worrying on the W issues:-

I had light spillage on mine on the top right, but like the review says "hardly noticeable under normal vieweing conditions".

And the oh-so-delicious-part-of-it-all, the Motionflow info:-

Interesting Motionflow quips in bold. I love Phillip's HD Natural Motion myself.

Not all is fine and rosy in the world of Z however, here are the cons:-

Solution? Drop down Motionflow setting to "Standard", smears went away. For the audio, it is not applicable to those who are adding the Z to their already available HT setup. I mute the audio on the Z all the way down.

This post has been edited by stringfellow: Jan 31 2009, 01:32 PM

TS, don't make it as fap mat while watch +18 movies.....

That goes to the courtesy of the Bravia Engine 2, boss! I'd switch Motionflow off on +18 stuff, they need to be savored nice and sloooooooooww.

I happen to agree with Stringfellow. I would like the option of Motionflow. even without it, the PQ is excellent.

so basically, u can on or off this motion flow thingy?
once its off, it will look normal like other hdtvs?

ive seen the 200hz motionflow test.... looked at it for around 10 secs and
felt a bit dizzy... i'm not sure if this happens to everyone...

im using V series. so far so good. Just sometime when i get close to my 46V, saw some 'keluar' line. is this because game support up to 720p only?

Yes, I completely agreed with you.
Personal feel that, Kuro still the best even it just a HD Ready TV.
I just received the final set Kuro 508XG yesterday, it's greeeeeeat, I might leave for my new house.
But the price

Bought me a z series today...Will arrive tomorrow...Sony have promotion for z series...buy a z series and will have option to buy PS3 for only rm200...

Which one is better if compare this Sony Z450 series to Samsung series 8 or 9 TV?

to me its apple n orange
cos i dun think the sammy has this motion flow 200 and the sony those not have those media features

The Black levels for the Series 9 should easily best out the Sony Z because of the LED backlight feature.

Actually I don't need those media features from Samsung, I would prefer motion flow 200 if it is really 200Hz....

---

Added on March 10, 2009, 4:59 pmIf balck levels of Sammy Series 9 is really better than Sony Z, then I might be going for series 9... Will go and check that out tonight

This post has been edited by geforce1999: Mar 10 2009, 04:59 PM

4 weeks ago, i bought a Philips 42PFL5403.

hated the auto back-light dimming thing.
please save your breath of telling me that
it can be switch off, cause it can't.
and many people knows it. Philips knows it,
therefore they are giving me a full refund,
after only having it in my room less than a week.

and please, only the Pros who have spent
many hours studying HDDTV at shops who realized
this, reply me. i'm tired of getting half-past information
from half-past salesman. most salesperson in the
shop have no idea what they are talking about.
my, you should see how i opened their eyes after
i teaching them how to see the unseen in HDTVs.
average user can't see it,
but once you do, it'll be very difficult for you
to find a decent TV again.

I do love the Philips HD motion though.
but the juddering+ghost pisses me off.
the auto dimming is the most irritating one.

i'm considering this Sony now.
compared it to Philips, i have to agree
that Philips still look more crispier, vividish
and buttery with the HD natural motion.
with their panel, images seem almost 3d-ish.

but this Sony has minimal problem compared to it.
it still has a little judder+ghost.
and a lil auto-dimming.
(all LCDs have them.)

i tried Plasma as option.
free from the ghost+judder, auto dimming.
and the Panasonic 800h is the only plasma that
has a similar natural motion feature.
but Plasma visual just ain't crisp and vivid+solid
compared to LCD.

so, after goin back and forth to shops,
i'm considering this Sony.
a little pricey. but with the promotion
of getting a PS3 with RM200 is tempting.
this particular shop even quote me a
RM7700 for the KLV-40Z450A.
(compared to Sony 8499)
so a total of RM7900 with a PS3. (think bluray)

so guys, have my research come a wrong way?

initially my budget was 4k.
and realizing i can't stand the minor glitches
of LCDs, i've decided to raise the budget to 8k.

but still with 8k, it is still not the ultimate perfection
i want. (i'm working in the film+tv production, so visual
can be quite critical for me.)

so is the KLV-40Z450A the best i can get for 8k?

or should i get back a higher range Philips?
7 series/9 series?

or plasma, Panasonic 800h?

or any news of price dropping or new products coming?

it's been 3 weeks since I've returned my 42" Philips.
missing the size of visual in my room.

sigh.

-chinyew

This post has been edited by chinyew: Mar 13 2009, 08:55 PM

200Hz there is no MAJOR difference from 100hz, not worth to get it yet but for 9 Series samsung. It's GOOD STUFF.

Thanks for the info. Will most propably go for Sammy but not yet confirm which model and size...

This post has been edited by geforce1999: Mar 15 2009, 10:35 AM

I'm lazy to read the whole thread...

What the current price now?

8499RM i think

Apples and oranges. My advise is, before you diss and confidently say that Motionflow 200Mhz is not worthwhile, take an actual look with good reference material before saying so. I'd totally understand if the standpoint is about money, and if that is lacking, but dissing it and offering other cheaper option and saying that other option is good enough replacement at a cheaper price, is a cop-out, and poor excuse to say the least.

I'm using this with my iTunes TV Show standard definition downloads and I'm already seeing marked improvements even from these re-encoded materials. Pure sources like Blu-rays will definitely bring this model standing out among others. All I'm saying is, it fits my requirements. It may not fit yours but dissing it before seeing it, is lame to say the least. If money is the real reason, stop giving others excuses or putting down this TV just because cash is tight.

In any case, I'll be closing this thread. No point letting it live its tortured life when others here have already made up their mind, no matter what anyone says about the Z, or anything that I say. You want to promote other models/brands? Please do it at their own respective threads, or better still, open your own. Simple as that.

Thread closed.