for those who have purchased or surveyed ML prices.. i know they have very deep discounts.. typically how many % in KL?

technically you could say that Omega movements are in-house.

and yes.. for less than the price of the B&R you can get very very good in-house movements, Nomos is one great example.

the nomos tangomat, full in house automatic movement, way more sophistication and substance than a B&R any day. but it requires a person with exquisite taste and appreciates the finer details in life to enjoy it. for majority of the population, show is more important than go, style over substance. who cares if the inside of a B&R is exactly the same as a Tissot and costs 10x more? not like you can see the movement or tell the difference.

and sound advice from nando. as always, get the piece that smiles at you, regardless of what other people say.

crooked retrograde GMT hand..unique! breguet hands. not my cup of tea but its a beautiful piece.

can't a japanese watch be proper?

in his sentence, he said "it's just like owning another citizen. wise choice would be to save up more money and get a proper swiss watch, right?"
why is it not a wise choice to save up more money and get a proper japanese watch? Grand Seiko? Seiko Spring Drive? Seiko Spirit (>$300)

i don't see how a swiss watch is more "proper" than a japanese watch. japanese watches don't get enough respect. technically every Citizen and Seiko piece is in-house movement. lol.

now I understand what you meant. i apologize for taking your post out of context. you could get a german watch with swiss movement, stowa maybe? you get the goodness of a swiss movement and german finish, not to mention it is an independent watchmaker.

majority of the watch companies are owned by the 3 luxury brands.. Swatch, LVMH and Richemont. and as much heritage, history and pedigree the brands may have, we wouldn't know how much of it has been eroded by corporations whose sole purpose is profits.

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Added on April 6, 2010, 11:59 amdepends on what its "worth" to you. to me its just a toy watch. mass marketed for the consumption of the masses. ODM is like Proton, Rolex is like Ferrari and Patek is Bugatti.

a funny quote i came across.. Rolex is the Rolex of watches.

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 6 2010, 11:59 AM

having local ADs and service centre is a plus, but that also depends on the quality and level of service. keep in mind just because they have a service centre here doesn't mean it will warrant good service. its just more convenient, but may not render the service you expect. i've read of horrible service experience by Tag Heuer. the Stowa for example, uses a common ETA2824 workhouse, and any knowledgeable watch repairmen would be able to service it.

its very rare you need to fix glass. bezel, face, hands. the face and hands probably deteriorate after decades. of course, if its a glass replacement, you can either send it back or order the parts from the independent watchmaker you purchased your watch from, and have it replaced locally by a repairman. Tag Heuer definitely won't sell you just the glass. think about it. IMO it is better to buy from independent watchmakers, cause to them every watch piece is a statement of their company and they want to see every one of them worn and in working condition. tag? they'd probably ask you to buy another one and profit from it or ask you to send it back to them and charge you an arm and leg for it.. my personal 2 cents. think about it and come to your own conclusion.

pieces from IWC or Maurice Lacroix maybe, or independent watchmakers such as stowa antea 390 definitely stand out from the crowd. picture in the previous pages. silver face (pictures can't tell you how cool it looks and how it reflects light), blue hands, proven eta workhouse movement, hand made German silver rotor that you only find in the highest end of watches such as A. Lange & Söhne - even used prices start at USD$15k and up.

getting a Rolex, Tag, won't make you stand out from the crowd. its common. in the world of sportscars, a Ferrari or Porsche won't make you stand out, but a Zonda or a Noble will. basically that's how I will draw parallels. Rolex=Ferrari, Tag=Porsche.

going with a Zonda, just says you're sophisticated, likewise with a Stowa for example. Sure, you can afford a Ferrari, but thats like "me too".

Rolex, Tag and major brands are just mass manufactured consumer goods. An insight on Tag's mass manufacturing here: http://www.calibre11.com/calibre-1887-story/#more-2189

The Stowa on the other hand, every piece is made after you've make your order, and they have a waiting list and a watchmaker actually sits down and assemble your watch, and you can even put in custom requests, maybe one with a blued hours hand and black minute hand.

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 7 2010, 03:42 AM

stand out from the crowd can mean 2 things... the watch brand, heritage, way it was put together etc. or how it looks. i wouldn't want it to stand out from the crowd looking like this



that's like... standing out from the crowd for looking like alien..but that's just me. if you want to look different, i think Ball watches do it without being looking too "special"

go try the watches on, and you will find what you like most.

second time zone on 24 hour basis, what if there's a second time zone which is off by +3:30 hours?

correct me if i am wrong, but resistant to low pressure at high flight altitudes..isn't it the same as pressure resistance to 20 bar? bar isn't a resistance to water depth but pressure.. the pressure at high altitudes and deep sea diving is the same force

and what is TEGIMENT?

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 8 2010, 11:27 AM

least you got Tissot, still swiss mah.

Out of the choices you mentioned.. I'd lean towards the Sinn U1 SDR on bracelet. In my personal book I'd rank Oris below Sinn and definitely the Omega as a brand, and in terms of case/build/technology & innovation, also below both Sinn and Omega. between PO and U1.. that depends on how much $ you wanna spend. I say go for the Omega and call it a day if you have the cash. if brands don't bother you that much. then Sinn is fine.

patryn33: thanks for the heads up, so I guess that 0.30 minute market not so vital.. that way I can justify getting a watch with second time zone without minutes hand... Oris Artelier Complication anyone? looks a bit small on the wrist though, even at 40mm

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 8 2010, 09:41 PM

worth is relative to the person paying the money...

to me omega is worth it. rolex isn't when you compare to the omega. simple example (and opening a can of worms).
rolex submariner vs omega seamaster co-axial. the omega is cheaper, and if you compare both of these watches side by side, and imagine both were rolex.. which would you choose? on feature alone, the co-axial movement, case, the better bracelet/clasp.. I would choose the seamaster. of course, some people pay for the brand..

all current Rolex that I know of uses inhouse movement. submariner uses the robust cal. 3135. usually compared to ETA 2892-A2. both are robust, both are proven, but both are also, well, dated. the Co-Axial by Omega is a big step forward, but the robustness of it remains to be seen over time. but on paper its definitely more "advance".

earlier Daytona used Zenith chrono movements...which have now rise in price due to collector status, as current daytona uses Rolex's own movements.

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 8 2010, 11:35 PM

that's too fast! must poison him more!
Sinn U1 Stealth, Tempus and U1W

then you better be fast. Tempus is a Singapore only piece limited to 250 pieces sold by The Hour Glass. not sure if its carried in Malaysia.

i did some reading, and if you are comparing the Ball Mad Cow Hydrocarbon to the U1, for around similar price on bracelet, I think the Ball will come up tops, as the U1 lacks many of Sinn's technology, no special oil for extreme temperature operation, no Ar dehumidifying technology, and only TEGIMENT coating on the bezel. The Ball has the special oil for extreme temperature operation, full titanium construction, and shock resistance. brand and design aside, ball wins.

for nando: Ball Hydrocarbon Spacemaster Glow
http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=38245

the complication black one looks nice.. got the moonphase..great can tell when my lycanthropy kicks in.

Ball Mad Cow is titanium case and bracelet.. the internals probably not titanium as it is a fully assembled ETA movement.

as for dismissing its features, how many of us really go beyond 100m water depth? how many of us actually use the chronograph? a feature over the U1 is a feature over the U1. whether you use it or not is a different story. I merely compared the Ball to the Sinn objectively. Ball claims the shock resistance is 7500Gs (I don't know what 7500Gs are in real life) and its antimagnetic. It doesn't seem the U1 is antimagnetic..another win for Ball.

bro nando, the Ball Mad Cow is ~RM5.8k iirc. brand new.

patryn33: what i wanted to point out is that I was making an objective comparison between the two. whether the feature is used or not is another story and that should be left to the person actually buying/using the watch. can we agree on that?

the price is after discount. spacelume is ~Rm6.8k
i posted a link earlier..someone selling pre-owned ball sm-lume in singapore..

yeah.. i've been looking hard at the Stowa Antea 390.. and you don't get the crocodile straps! argh

omega. but more importantly..which watch speaks to you? put them on your wrist and find out.
though i prefer the classic SMP w/skeleton hands over the PO.. Daniel Craig still makes me cringe.. Pierce Brosnan

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 15 2010, 11:59 PM