Raw feeding probably started getting attention here in Malaysia for only a few years, but there have been lots of people who have been feeding raw for way longer than that (I've heard of people doing that for more than 20 years, but they are overseas). None of them had any medical cases from raw feeding as far as I know. And I have known people who feed large breeds raw...all are still alive and kicking if that's what you're asking. Some have lived up to more than 14 years of age, which is quite impressive for me.

How can you really prove that kibbles/canned food/cooked food are good for dogs too? What about diseases caused by feeding kibble? There's always these kinds of questions going around. I personally haven't seen these things (chicken bones cut through intestines and what not) before, so I guess I can't comment much.

You're talking about 'what's best and what's not in raw'...it still feels the same to me. Whether we compare kibbles and raw or not, there will always be two sides to a coin. So my previous point still stands. It's really up to you if you want to feed raw or not. Nobody's forcing you to feed raw to your dog. If you strongly feel that raw is not the way to go for your dog, by all means feed kibbles. We're all just doing what's best for our dogs according to our own understanding. It's not a matter of which side is the best or not...

Yup, I've already gotten my ticket to the talk. But I am a bit confused about your statements though. First you mentioned that Dr. Ly will talk about the 'benefits of the raw diet', but towards the bottom you mention that 'pet owners like yourself....examine the great controversy surrounding the benefits of raw diets'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a little contradicting?

For the record, I never took offense to what you have posted. I guess you construed something entirely different from what I meant when I posted that. Probably one of the bad points of 'talking' virtually

The reason I say that is because I feel that we all always want to pin point something when we are not sure of it. (or maybe it's just me) True, there's no harm in finding out what is the good and bad points about something, but it will never end because there will always be two sides to a topic. That's what I'm trying to say.

The way that you're asking sounded to me like you're trying to find something (I don't know what) that might cause you to NOT feed raw. That's fine with me, but you already said that processed food can caused problems...what more are you hesitating about? The only way you can truly know is to take the plunge yourself. No amount of reading or waiting to listen to other people's opinions will change your mind if you have already set your mind to either feed or not feed raw.

So far, I have not read any scientific papers on whether we can prove raw feeding will be detrimental OR being beneficial to our pets. So, I guess there is no real answer to what you've been asking (whether our dogs' internal organs will be fine after a long feeding). For me, no one can predict the future...I might fall down and die tomorrow, so why over-think things?

I have not said that you are defending processed foods. What I mentioned was that if you feel raw is not the way to go, then you should go with whatever works for you and your dog (kibble being the popular choice). Either way, WE are the ones who feed our dogs, right? What's wrong with my statement of 'It's really up to you'? Ultimately, we as owners determine what, when and how much to feed our pets...so isn't that up to us?

Salmonella can be found anywhere...even in kibbles if not handled properly. Raw eggs could cause watery stools if your dog is not used to it. I've fed Scottie raw eggs before, but I didn't feed the egg by itself. I made sure the portion of the food he's used to is bigger than the egg portion so that he didn't get tummy upset. He never did get watery stools. But it's not a big requirement to feed eggs. If your dog can't take raw eggs, you can just omit it or feed it cooked, like what mecharojak suggested


Have you sent Fifi to the vet to check if it is fungi? Is the patch a big one? Kenji got fungal infection on his fur before, and it was not a pretty sight. He shed a lot, but after treatment, he's better now. So, to avoid major shedding, better to go check with a vet.

Since she's doing quite well after 3 weeks on wild boar, perhaps it's time to introduce a new kind of meat. Some bones will help too, coz just feeding all meat meal is not quite enough. You could also introduce other organs slowly too, since she can take liver. You can get stuff like lung, spleen, kidney, pancreas, etc.

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 29 2009, 12:20 AM

Just chicken necks and some fish I feel is not enough variety, as chicken necks are too bony and has not enough meat. Dory fish is not really what I would feed too, as it does not provide the Omega 3s. I usually only feed fish that has quite a bit of O3s like sardine, mackerel or salmon (salmon VERY rare, coz it's so expensive). If you plan to feed chicken, get the whole chicken and whack it to pieces. It's not that expensive especially if you buy from supermarkets that had sale for chicken. Chalky stool means too much bone. Up the amount of meat and you should see a difference in the stool

I would also go down on liver actually...too much liver is not good at all. They only need a LITTLE bit of liver every day...what I would do is to feed a bigger chunk of liver every 4-5 days. 1-2 chicken livers is a bit too much, I think. Organs does not mean just liver. It means also things like lungs, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc. The percentage to feed this is also VERY little, so go easy on them.

If you feel that Fifi is ready for new variety, you can slowly introduce new meat... There are quite a lot of meat that is affordable to feed, especially during sales time. Look out for deals in the papers for hypermarkets. It's not really that expensive if you can get a good deal, and your dog is not a big breed dog I usually only spend about RM50 per month for Scottie's food, and more often than not I can get varieties like chicken, lamb, mutton, buffalo, pork, duck, beef, turkey, sardine, wild boar, etc. Of course, RM50 doesn't buy all of that, but I can get at least 2-3 kinds of meat from that list, and I rotate it every month.

If Fifi doesn't like wild boar meat, you don't have to force her to eat it...you can leave it in the freezer and try it again after a while Maybe she doesn't like it now, but later she will... Or, you could also try searing the meat a little (meaning cook the meat in a drying pan without any oil for a few seconds just to get the smell, but not cook until it's all cooked kind) and offering it to her.


You mean clean the floor, or the dog? For the dog, I just wipe Scottie's beard with baby wipes, but he doesn't drag his food around everywhere, so it's all good. For the floor, I use Germisep to clean the floor. If you are concerned that your dog will dirty the floor, you could use an old piece of cloth or towel and get her to eat only on the cloth / towel. If she tries to bring it away, you bring the food back to the cloth / towel. After the meal, just dump the towel into the washing machine

I usually get my quail meat from Jusco...it's sold frozen. But it's a bit pricey (about RM5 for 2 birds only), so it's not a staple for Scottie. I've heard that some wet markets sell quail too, but it's not as easy to find compared to other meat, so I only feed quail whenever I can find it.

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Added on November 30, 2009, 12:31 amI have a Min. Schnauzer, so I think his size is similar to your Poodle's size...for lamb bones, I don't feed it to Scottie. It's best not to feed the weight-bearing bones of the big animals (which is the leg bones of animals like cows, sheep, goat, deer, etc) because they are too hard, and will cause the teeth to break. Whenever I can find lamb, it's usually the lamb shoulder cuts, so I take away the bone and just feed boneless to Scottie. His source of bone comes from chicken, duck, turkey, quail and fish (but mostly chicken, duck and fish).

This post has been edited by Rayne: Nov 30 2009, 12:31 AM

Yes, I do kind of defrost the food for Scottie...what I do is the day before, I take the food out from the freezer and put it in the fridge overnight. When it's feeding time (usually in the evening), I just take it out from the fridge and feed it. I don't really see any problems if there are any bacteria attacking the food...dogs' tummies are quite hardy compared to ours. That's why you can see some dogs foraging through rubbish, or eating contaminated food and still be quite unharmed.

Err..I don't feed bone just because I have to feed bone Because I buy whole chickens to keep, I just whack it to pieces and let Scottie eat. Whichever parts have bone, he will have bone for that meal. Sometimes it's boneless meals. The bones that I feed are usually enveloped in a lot of meat, and I feel that Scottie doesn't need that much bone..once he gets too much, his poop gets very crumbly. I used to feed him chicken necks too, but often times the neck is attached to part of the chicken, and not just the neck itself (coz if feed only the neck, it's more bone than meat actually. Same goes for wings).

I think if you want to feed meat with bones, maybe just buy chicken breasts or keels (if you don't want to buy whole chickens), and cut it into smaller pieces for Autumn. Since she's quite small, the breast bones will not be that hard for her to eat, and it's quite enveloped in meat to give her a good workout also

Usually I will feed sardines to Scottie...they are about the only time I can feed Scottie whole. I feed it as is (without de-boning). Scottie has not had problems with it...the fish are usually not that big, and the bones are enveloped with meat, so he just chew chew for a while and swallow. Err, I have not heard about seafood not being good for dogs though...but then, fish is only the kind of 'seafood' I feed to Scottie. I only feed fish that are known to have good amounts of O3s, and not other kinds of fish

Yup, the lamb cuts I usually get are the frozen shoulder cuts. I have on occasion seen quail at the Jusco in Midvalley or Cheras Selatan, but I haven't been to Wangsa Maju, so not too sure about that. Where did you see rabbit being sold? Was thinking of introducing that to Scottie before, but I haven't found it sold nearby my place

Usually the bones from turkey that I could find are from drumsticks or wings. I've fed wings to Scottie before with no problems. He crunched through them like chicken... The turkey drumsticks sometimes are cut to pieces...if I feed they are not too sharp, i would just give it to Scottie, but if not...I just remove it. No biggie

Haha, I feed the Prey Model, so I didn't feed any fruits or veggies to Scottie, except as occasional treats But my partner does veggie blends, and from what I can see, she just blends everything into a pulp. Because dogs can't digest the cellulose walls in fruits and veggies, the only way they can get the most out of it is to eat them already blended.

If you feel it's too mar fan to blend, we do sell just the veggie blend (hehe...promote promote a bit ). Click on my siggy (Nature's Way) to check it out

I have fed garlic before to Scottie, but it's not very often...I would try to feed most things raw if possible, because I feel that garlic powder might have other additives inside. Except when I'm baking for Scottie...SOMETIMES I would add a teensy bit of garlic powder just to get the smell out. When I used normal garlic to bake, it didn't smell as strong. Haha!

This post has been edited by Rayne: Nov 30 2009, 10:34 PM

Hi there! Well, for me I just switch Scottie straight away. Meaning today's meal is kibble...tomorrow is full raw He took to it very well, and had no problems at all It's best to switch cold turkey, because mixing kibbles and raw is not that feasible.

In the beginning of a raw meal, your dog might not be used to it. When Scottie had his first meal, he looked at me like I just gave him some weird thing to eat, but after he chewed on it, he liked it and we never looked back since then If your dog hasn't gotten used to eating, you could cut lines into the meat to make it easier for her to bite onto the meat and tear it off Some people also use strong smelling food like cheese to make the raw meat more palatable, but I think you should let her try the meat as it is first before doing that. If she really doesn't want to eat, you could try that.

Well, changing the diet might help with the itchiness if it is caused by the diet..raw feeding is not a miracle cure. It's just a way of feeding the biologically appropriate food for a dog And I don't think you can see results in one feeding. It might take a while before you see results, so you have to be patient. If the itchiness still persists though, it could be something else that's making your dog itch. Sometimes it's the environment, like parasites, or cleaners that we use to clean the floor, etc. Hopefully it's the diet, and the itchiness goes away after she was switched to raw

Just a little thing abt the offals. Gizzards and hearts are not considered as organs because they are full of muscle, so they are mostly fed as meaty meats. Other organs you can get from supermarkets or markets are like lungs, kidneys, spleen, and brain.

Puppies who grow up on raw will actually grow slow and steady, instead of having growth spurts so fast. Too fast of a growth will not be good because the pup wouldn't have enough time to adjust and develop properly. So, no worries about the slow growth. It's normal and ideal actually

For puppies, you could go with 4-10% of their current weight per day, OR you could choose to use 2 - 4% of the IDEAL estimated adult weight (meaning that you have to estimate how much your pup will weigh when he's grown up, and feed 2-4% of that weight every day). These are all estimates though. The key is to always monitor and know your dog. If he/she is getting too chubby, cut down the amount and if too thin, up the amount.

Since 10 months old is still a puppy, I would go with two feedings a day, meaning that you have to take the total amount to feed per day and divide it into 2 meals. Eg: if I am feeding 4% of his current weight, that is about 920g per day. So, one meal is about 460g of food. Hope that helps a little!

Yup, definitely. If your pup is still thin, you can just up the amount and stay with that amount until you feel she has gotten to that ideal size. Feel along the sides to get a better gauge instead of relying on weight only.

No, when I meant feel along the sides is not to see whether the stomach feels full or not (if bloated also not really a good sign), but rather to see if your pup is growing the way she should be, by feeling for the ribs...if she is growing well, you would only need to apply a little bit of pressure to feel the ribs. If by just barely touching the sides and you can feel the ribs already (or if the ribs are already very prominent without touching), then she is too thin (and you need to up the amount of food). If you can't feel the ribs at all after applying a little pressure, she is getting chubby (and you need to decrease the amount of food).

Is she still active as usual? Playing and eating good? If so, then just up the amount to feed her I'm guessing she might just be a bit bigger size when she grows up. I'm guessing this because I follow the estimated ideal adult weight to gauge the amount to feed Scottie. After looking up the breed standards and all, the ideal weight for a Min. Schnauzer is around 6-8kg, so I put it as around 7kg. I feed about 2% of that weight, which is about 140g a day. But, seeing as Scottie is at his best weight (that I liked so far) which is 6.75kg, the amount I feed is around 120g plus or minus depending on the cut meat. So, he's maintained it well

For your pup, I think she might be bigger sized as 200g would be the amount to feed an 8kg adult dog. Seeing that one can feed up to 4% of the ideal adult weight (of 8kg, it's around 320g) you could definitely up the amount to that, provided she is still active, playing and eating well Just keep adding more (and monitoring constantly) to see how much she can eat and be in an ideal weight All these numbers are really just an estimate. Some dogs need more, some need less. I'm guessing your pup is one of them that needs more

Well, all dogs are sized differently. You can't actually judge how much they eat because they are the same breed. Scottie is kind of small for his age and sex, so that's why he eats less. Quite a few Min. Schnauzers that I see his age are usually bigger than him. Plus, puppies are meant to eat more because they are growing, and so definitely need more food You should up the amount until she is older, and then only maintain it at a certain amount to feed.

Loose stools can mean a lot of things...it could be too much food, introducing too many new foods at one time, treats that didn't agree with her, or she picked up something that she shouldn't eat, etc. If she is still active and all, just monitor her and cut down on all treats. She should be fine in a couple of days

No worries, we all are still learning also, so help each other out lo

Umm...I think you're asking in the wrong thread here. If you notice, BARF = Bones and Raw Food so yes we are all feeding raw to our furkids. No cooking whatsoever. If you're looking at cooking for your furkid, I would suggest reading up more about it as well because cooking is definitely different from feeding raw as cooking changes the protein structures in the meat.