Outline ·
[ Standard ] ·
Linear+
BOT on 4g15, Need ideas and opinions
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 5 2008, 10:31 AM
|
Need sleep....
|
QUOTE(ryan_hustler @ Nov 5 2008, 05:55 AM) Im considering plumbing it back into the intercooler intake,but that will depend on the runner length.If the path is not acessible,then vent to atmo oly.not a big issue. About the injector, i asked the workshop guy he said factory injector is 150cc based on calculations, cc/min =(xpected bhp x 0.55 x 10.5)/4 for stock @84bhp =120cc with 0.3 bar @100bhp =145cc if ur info is correct about the injector size (180cc), its more than sufficient for current boost requirements.If you dont mind me asking,how valid is this date? Care to elaborate on the bolded text bro?u mean reflashing the chip of swap it out for a diff set of maps? from what i learned (from you guys) stock ecu's cant be tuned,either get a piggyback or change to standalone.Other options would be swap the chip.. If you ask that mech to do the modification for you, you are going to be in a world of pain. Injector duty cycle has to be kept around 60%. Anytime it goes above 80%, it will start to overheat and jam. You can't run your injector duty cycle near 100% without anything exploding from your engine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 5 2008, 05:40 PM
|
Need sleep....
|
QUOTE(FAibS @ Nov 5 2008, 04:22 PM) piggybacks can tune siemens without the need to change codes inside the microprocessor.. if u know how to =) just stay away from emanage and it can be done =) However, piggybacks do not tune the ECU at all. It just changes the signal going into the ECU and tricks the ECU with a different reading. I don't call that tuning as you can't change the parameters of the original ECU mapping. Tuning capabilities are limited as it still relies on the original parameter of the ECU. So, if the original ECU for NA runs on MAP, it most probably does not have maps for positive boost pressure and the piggyback will not be sufficient to correct this. Only and aftermarket standalone ECU can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 6 2008, 09:12 AM
|
Need sleep....
|
QUOTE(ryan_hustler @ Nov 6 2008, 03:34 AM) Added on November 6, 2008, 5:21 amTo keep the duty cycle at 60% at max boost,the 240cc injectors fit the bill.I guess catacombs was right to suggestthe mivec injectors then..it will be runnug at 52% capacity..is this calculation right? Correct but there is one problem. Without an aftermarket ECU, you will have problems controlling the injector while you are driving below 0 psi boost. The stock ECU cannot cope with the larger capacity and I won't be surprised to even see black smoke coming out even while you are idling. Even aftermarket ECUs will not be able to resolve this issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 6 2008, 01:02 PM
|
Need sleep....
|
I guess I didn't make myself clear too. I wasn't talking about a BOT KITs with piggyback and separate wiring loom and injectors like those sold by RPW in Australia for Proton. Those cost more than a standalone ECU on some kits. Usually piggybacks come into mind as a simple piggyback controllers without external kits. Those will not make it for BOTs.
Yes, there are very extensive piggybacks but I won't call them piggybacks anymore as you'd need to purchase a whole new set of wiring looms and sensors if the original ECU does have it. These are called conversion kits that are very popular overseas but not here.
Unfortunately, for the local scene, it is the other way around. Labour is cheap and engine conversions are the norm. Overseas, labour is charged per hour and engine conversions cost more. Here, it cost more to tune an ECU than to do an engine conversion. I got the quote to retune my ECU for RM3000 (without dyno as they get the maps from the internet too). What a rip off. I do it myself for less than RM400 (to get the cable). Mappings I can get from the internet and I find hundreds of cars with the exact same mods as mine and just use their tried and tested mappings.
Piggybacks (and conversion kits) suffer the same problem here. Cost too much and hence it is not popular. However, with the 4G93T engine fading into the history books and new Protons can't use them easily, the only option for most people now is to go BOT. Do hope that one day we do see the BOT kits hear other than the one offered by Proton a long time ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 6 2008, 02:31 PM
|
Need sleep....
|
QUOTE(FAibS @ Nov 6 2008, 01:52 PM) ok true in a way but i wasnt talk about those BOT kits that comes with piggybacks from rpw either... piggybacks are quite advanced these days, i was just specifically referring on ryan_hustlers case , a piggyback to support his hardware which would not require any external kits or wiring looms or whatever which would not cost more than rm1600 for the unit brand new.. advanced piggybacks dont cost that much.. its the dyno costs that is expensive thats all, installation and tuning on the dyno in his case would cost him from 550-1000rm depending on the quality of tune he is after... its also a once off investment.. there are ppiggybacks out there that are completely universal to all cars even diesel vehicles.. so ineffect u only pay once for a unit which would go with u anywhere even when u change cars =) ive moved on from safc to piggybacks to standalones, i now stick to piggybacks cause its so flexible, ez to remove and revert back to standard and also comes with me when i sell the vehicle.. whether i own a kelisa, or proton or ferrari it still uses the same unit =) cost me less to install and tune as well.. most importantly.. no headaches =) rm3000 without dyno is ridiculous XD that is a rip off.. maybe its just that shop... maybe i recommend u a piggyback as well as direct u to the right ppl to tune XD kekek jk Added on November 6, 2008, 1:55 pmthat would cost too much, ur better off with a piggyback with the right tuner that can tune it =)as i said its been done b4 and it can be done =) I don't need piggyback. My ECU is based on open ecu programming that can be fully flashed with all the necessary mappings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
sleepwalker
|
Nov 16 2008, 07:34 PM
|
Need sleep....
|
QUOTE(coldfusionpower @ Nov 16 2008, 06:57 PM) time to use a stand alone or Emanage Ultimate .. if not mistaken, emanage have the ability to control ignition ..retard it on boost just use a boost controller .. set it at 0.3bar ... even external wastegate dont hv that low boost spring. nolah .. ppl still view it ma .. view count still increasing  Your boost controller depends on the turbines internal/external wastegate. Boost controllers let you adjust the boost above but not below the original spring tension. So if the stock boost is 0.7, you can't use a boost controller to set it below that. You'd have to adjust the wastegate or get one that is set lower.
|
|
|
|
|