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Hi-Fi CD Transport DIY, the Shigaclone story

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TSccschua
post Oct 20 2008, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Oct 20 2008, 07:36 AM)
It's already implemented, TI, LT and AD have released very good USB to I2S/SPDIF chips recently, the DAC1 USB is a good example of an extremely jitter immune system with the benefits of USB's corrected transmission.

What would you trust to make sure your music gets from point to point without issues, a CD player with a 1mb cache, or a PC such as mine with 8 gigabytes of memory, not inclusive of HDD Buffers and Soundcard ones?

And as a note, i don't recommend using black gates IF they don't fit into the pad. Many dolts use wires for their legs or keep the leads too long, which infact makes the signal path worse than with the old cheapo capacitor. Stretching it a bit is fine, but any longer than half a centimeter is an antenna tongue.gif
You're already taking the sound from a digital source, you're making sure with modern systems that it's getting from point A to point B without any damage of that digital data, data or timing wise. Computers do it so much better if you ask me.

Distortion is never a desired characteristic of digital systems.  I'm assuming that you aren't using vinyl laugh.gif
*
Well DAC 1 will cost USD 1000 for the proper implementation. If one use the USB to SPDIF converter, then the clock has to be properly done up, independent suspension, power supply. I just discovered my PCM 2902 usb to spdif converter (using computer power supply thru USB) has 500 ps jitter, as compared to 20 ps reference.

I am almost tempted to get that JVC on the upcoming members day at jusco.

This post has been edited by ccschua: Oct 20 2008, 06:41 PM
jazzy939
post Oct 20 2008, 06:52 PM

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Y.C.,
I was not aware that the PS1 is still on sale there! laugh.gif Hopefully it's not a 'look alike' SONI or SUNNY Playstation no? tongue.gif
The best price I saw in lelong was like RM160..negotiable.
Nope, did not mod mine. Too much hassle lah! Even the JVC mods also, I am agreeing with you. Might as well buy that Sansui CDP! laugh.gif
I have not come across anything similar with PS2 though...

QUOTE(Y.C. @ Oct 20 2008, 04:08 PM)
Jazzy,
There is a shop within the complex opposite Nixie in JP selling a brand new PS1 for RM290 together with the games. If it is anything less than RM100 then it might worth the effort to buy it just to play play with mods. Since you already have a PS1, you did not mod your unit? As for me, I would not try to mod either the PS1 or JVC compo into CDP and transport proper; too much hassle for me. I thought PS2 looks much better especially the limited edition silver coloured ones, wonder if its CD playback capability is any good.

Sorry folks, I have gone off topic but don't mean to hijack the thread.
*
flyboi
post Oct 22 2008, 08:52 AM

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I've been reading the diyaudio thread about this project as well. First, have to get the boombox. Can't find one in jusco mid valley. Will try wangsa maju this weekend.



QUOTE(jazzy939 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:44 AM)
A survey:

IF I can get someone locally to manufacturer a similar metal chassis like you see above, how many of you would be interested? How much are you willing to pay for such a chassis?
Why am I asking? I have a friend who have a machine shop..
*
My friend and ! will be interested. Just let us know the budget. Cheers!

This post has been edited by flyboi: Oct 22 2008, 09:03 AM
jazzy939
post Oct 22 2008, 08:57 AM

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Great! That's two, three to include me wink.gif
xtremedummy
post Oct 22 2008, 10:23 AM

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i am too.hehe
jazzy939
post Oct 23 2008, 12:47 AM

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ok. thats four! wink.gif will revert next week. will meet the guy this weekend to get initial quotation.
TSccschua
post Oct 23 2008, 06:49 AM

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hope the price is not high, otherwise I would just consider a wooden board.
jazzy939
post Oct 23 2008, 09:05 AM

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ccschua,
a wooden board would be a good alternate choice. wink.gif
wui223
post Oct 26 2008, 07:51 AM

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So, anyone get the boombox by now?
Any update on the chasis? jazzy?
jazzy939
post Oct 26 2008, 12:33 PM

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Nothing on the chassis yet.. weekend schedules fully occupied tongue.gif
bsl555
post Oct 26 2008, 12:39 PM

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What about the disc clamp?.. will that be separate from chassis quote?
jazzy939
post Oct 26 2008, 12:58 PM

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I will try to include the disc clamp in the package too..
TSccschua
post Oct 26 2008, 01:13 PM

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That's called a puck. there is magnetic and non magnetic type.

QUOTE(jazzy939 @ Oct 26 2008, 12:58 PM)
I will try to include the disc clamp in the package too..
*
user posted image

This post has been edited by ccschua: Oct 26 2008, 01:14 PM
jazzy939
post Oct 26 2008, 01:39 PM

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I am aware of the 'puck' ccschua wink.gif
TSccschua
post Oct 26 2008, 05:56 PM

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Updated the pdf at page 1 on the components required.

I am placing order for the

1. capacitors and resistors. No black gates, only panasonic. resistor is Vishay Dale.
2. Voltage regulator. AC in 25V and DC out 8V

Who knows the source for Hammond Transformer 2x25V

I am using it for transport.

This post has been edited by ccschua: Oct 26 2008, 06:05 PM
flyboi
post Oct 27 2008, 01:47 AM

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QUOTE(ccschua @ Oct 26 2008, 01:13 PM)
That's called a puck. there is magnetic and non magnetic type.
user posted image
*
Is that urs in the picture?
TSccschua
post Oct 27 2008, 07:14 AM

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Not really. but it would serve the job, I am thinking of putting the servo on a wooden board, then have it tied to the marble. The servo needs about 15kg of mass to stabilize !!

Something about the PUCK.
------
Hi,

http://www.audiostereo.pl/zalaczniki/1067737_1.jpg

CD tracks are 1.6 micron apart, that's 625 tracks in each mm, CD transports use a lens with focussing comparable to a good microscope, both the focussing and tracking need to be extremely accurate (1 micron / 0.16 micron or better, a hair is about 100 micron, you'll get the point...)

If guess it's difficult for a magnetic puck not influence the tiny coils controlling the lens. (And even if the magnetic field was perfectly symmetric: the lens is constantly moving in that field because of servo corrections, CD eccentricity, I think that could still influence the coils.)

I almost don't dare to say this here: even a static field of a non-magnetic puck has an influence. If we demagnetize (remove static fields) screw-on type pucks, we can hear an improvement (can be heard easily in a very good system). Of course you won't hear a difference if your CD or other parts are static/magnetic too.
Observed differences are similar (higher resolution, more variety in timbres, more micro and macro dynamics, more quiet, silent background). It's time for some serious jitter measurements...

Btw. we distribute the Shigaraki transport in two versions with magnetic and screw type puck, screw type is always preferred in A/B comparisons. However some find the difference small and choose for the convenience of the magnetic puck (and lower price).

But there are more reasons why the non-magnetic puck sounds different. For our research (we're trying to make the best possible CD player smile.gif we've created and tested a large range of pucks and spindles (all screw-on type), and everything in the design seems to matter, not only weight, weight distribution and pressure, but also the contact points/surfaces with the CD, materials, etc. It all influences the vibrations (and so the jitter pattern and the sound).

On the other hand, I don't want to exaggerate the problem of a magnetic puck, there are good transports with magnetic pucks. Usually there are bigger problems in CD-transports (also the expensive ones). The puck is not the weakest link.

And all of this wouldn't be a problem if we could get rid of the jitter at the DAC, but I haven't heard that in practice yet. It would be very cool if we don't need ridiculously expensive transports anymore to get the best from CD.

source

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread....ht=#post1330555


Added on October 27, 2008, 7:39 amhere is what it says about CDPRO
--
Here are my experiences with the CD PRO (with a few other persons we evaluated different mechanisms for developing a transport):

The mechanism of de CD PRO is very good, altough not as perfect as the VRDS NEO, but you can't buy these for a sensible price (and the electronics of the VRDS probably limits it's capabilities).

The laser is ok, but unfortunately not balanced, which means that focus- and tracking corrections influence each other more than neccesary. The corrections introduce jitter that can't be removed. A cheap Sanyo laser does this better.

The weakest link is the circuit board, and I guess it's almost impossible to modify properly. The clock can be improved but there are far worse problems on this board: the 4-layer layout and it's components.

Btw: I notice many people focus on the clock, but usually there's more to gain elsewhere (solving hf problems, power supply, layout etc.). Besides that: most clocks we've evaluated introduced new hf-problems, new jitter in other parts of the spectrum. I think "Plug-and-play" clocks are a gamble, proper implementation is critical.

source

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread....832#post1173832

This post has been edited by ccschua: Oct 27 2008, 07:41 AM
flyboi
post Oct 27 2008, 08:34 AM

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Hi guys!

Manage to get 1 EZ31 at Mydin Pudu and that is the last stock. Jusco in wangsa maju also has no stock. Still looking for another one for friend. An ideas which shop has it?


Added on October 27, 2008, 8:38 am
QUOTE(ccschua @ Oct 27 2008, 07:14 AM)
Not really. but it would serve the job, I am thinking of putting the servo on a wooden board, then have it tied to the marble. The servo needs about 15kg of mass to stabilize !!
So, how is the sound so far? What dac do u use with this transport?



This post has been edited by flyboi: Oct 27 2008, 08:38 AM
jazzy939
post Oct 27 2008, 09:18 AM

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This is news! The EZ31 no stock! Must be bought by forumers that stumbled by this thread.. tongue.gif
gabanyayaya
post Oct 27 2008, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(ccschua @ Oct 27 2008, 08:14 AM)
Not really. but it would serve the job, I am thinking of putting the servo on a wooden board, then have it tied to the marble. The servo needs about 15kg of mass to stabilize !!

Something about the PUCK.
------
Hi,

http://www.audiostereo.pl/zalaczniki/1067737_1.jpg

CD tracks are 1.6 micron apart, that's 625 tracks in each mm, CD transports use a lens with focussing comparable to a good microscope, both the focussing and tracking need to be extremely accurate (1 micron / 0.16 micron or better, a hair is about 100 micron, you'll get the point...)

If guess it's difficult for a magnetic puck not influence the tiny coils controlling the lens. (And even if the magnetic field was perfectly symmetric: the lens is constantly moving in that field because of servo corrections, CD eccentricity, I think that could still influence the coils.)

I almost don't dare to say this here: even a static field of a non-magnetic puck has an influence. If we demagnetize (remove static fields) screw-on type pucks, we can hear an improvement (can be heard easily in a very good system). Of course you won't hear a difference if your CD or other parts are static/magnetic too.
Observed differences are similar (higher resolution, more variety in timbres, more micro and macro dynamics, more quiet, silent background). It's time for some serious jitter measurements...

Btw. we distribute the Shigaraki transport in two versions with magnetic and screw type puck, screw type is always preferred in A/B comparisons. However some find the difference small and choose for the convenience of the magnetic puck (and lower price).

But there are more reasons why the non-magnetic puck sounds different. For our research (we're trying to make the best possible CD player smile.gif we've created and tested a large range of pucks and spindles (all screw-on type), and everything in the design seems to matter, not only weight, weight distribution and pressure, but also the contact points/surfaces with the CD, materials, etc. It all influences the vibrations (and so the jitter pattern and the sound).

On the other hand, I don't want to exaggerate the problem of a magnetic puck, there are good transports with magnetic pucks. Usually there are bigger problems in CD-transports (also the expensive ones). The puck is not the weakest link.

And all of this wouldn't be a problem if we could get rid of the jitter at the DAC, but I haven't heard that in practice yet. It would be very cool if we don't need ridiculously expensive transports anymore to get the best from CD.

source

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread....ht=#post1330555


Added on October 27, 2008, 7:39 amhere is what it says about CDPRO
--
Here are my experiences with the CD PRO (with a few other persons we evaluated different mechanisms for developing a transport):

The mechanism of de CD PRO is very good, altough not as perfect as the VRDS NEO, but you can't buy these for a sensible price (and the electronics of the VRDS probably limits it's capabilities).

The laser is ok, but unfortunately not balanced, which means that focus- and tracking corrections influence each other more than neccesary. The corrections introduce jitter that can't be removed. A cheap Sanyo laser does this better.

The weakest link is the circuit board, and I guess it's almost impossible to modify properly. The clock can be improved but there are far worse problems on this board: the 4-layer layout and it's components.

Btw: I notice many people focus on the clock, but usually there's more to gain elsewhere (solving hf problems, power supply, layout etc.). Besides that: most clocks we've evaluated introduced new hf-problems, new jitter in other parts of the spectrum. I think "Plug-and-play" clocks are a gamble, proper implementation is critical.

source

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread....832#post1173832
*
did you got the hammond tranny or something equivalent....???

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