Popularity should be based on the original game, not the mod. Much like how Dota ended up becoming a hit. But you will notice that before dota, it was Warcraft III itself that had the attention of the public. I like the game, competitively and non-competively. But for those who jumped straight into competitive play before actually enjoying the game will not understand where most of us stand. Experience in other competitive games dont buy you rights to set rules, despite how close the game resembles your own.

Promod is also the name of the replacement for Counter-Strike: Source and Counter-Strike 1.6. Look it up, it will show up somewhere.

SnD may be a competitive mode, but its not the ONLY competitive mode. What i want to know is, are the CS players that COD4:Promod have attracted stay with the community when CS:Promod comes out? I highly doubt that. A majority will move, leaving their "Rulesets" behind and the COD4 community to rot.

Reasons i don't like PROMOD :

Too CS-like.
It's like CS without the economics which makes it worse than CS. Veteran CS players will remember the "eco" rounds they need to do to save up for their weapons, or do a glock vest 1st round.

No Gun Sway?
Too easy. Why? Its to easy to spot. Perception is something that each person has at different degrees. The amount of focus needed is lessened with no sway. It also takes away one thing that made the COD seriously unique, the Hold Breathe action. Play America's Army, which is based on the American recruitment software used to test soldiers in virtual simulations. They addapted the hold breath system from there. These are real soldiers we're talking about.

No Ambience, Smoke, Exploding Cars.
The more disturbances you have, the more it tests your skill. These are imbedded features in the game that make it competitive and real. If you lack foresight or hearing, you ended being blown up by a car. Face it, if you were on the battlefield, you'd probably stay away from a burning car wouldn't you?

Bandolier, Stopping Power.
If you're going to limit the entire game to 2 perks, why not just embed the system into the guns? Giving them unlimited ammo to fire and a +35 damage increment, then totally remove the perk system? COD4:MW lives on the perk system, dont get the right perks, you're basically screwed.

No Air Support.
What? No helicopter? Nuff said.

Reasons i like promod :

Stolen UI.
Yes, i like the stolen UI from PAM4.01

Reasons i like PAM4.01 over Promod :

PAM4 Interface
For any gamemode, the PAM4 mod shows the players who are alive on both teams, which is useful particularly in SnD modes.

Easy Setup
PAM4 is easy to set up, cfg files are also explained well. PAM4 also has the timeout option and EU/NA rulesets inbuilt to the mod. There is also the possibility of editing these cfg files to anyones liking, much like how our Malaysian rulesets are.

PAM4 Retains COD4:MW
Despite many restrictions, PAM4 retains the most parts of COD4:MW in tournament play, having certain perks still allowed in tournaments.

Im not saying that we have balance or our system is perfect, in fact, we're far from it. But i for one do not want to automatically assume some other country should decide what we should play, when in reality, even the publisher isnt interested in the community. What the majority of COD4 players in Malaysia have become are mature gamers, highly adaptive players who not only support the local community but communities abroad, which like singapore use other mods. There is also the bond between the teams in Malaysia and organizers, such as In2 and New Era, which will bring possible partnerships in the future. Take this opportunity to see how it all works, to understand why gaming is what it is today. They are the ones that made it happen in Malaysia and before you look overseas, you should overcome the barriers locally first.

When you say the REST of the world uses PROMOD, i believe you mistook the world for some other world because
If you read the below.. EU STILL USES PAM4.01 for their competitive play, with their OWN TWL league rules.
http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthre...threadid=417909

AND
zomg they have knife matches! weee...
http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthre...threadid=420856

With the merger between Blizzard, Activision and Vivendi, there is new hope that Activion as publishers of Call of Duty 4 be more pro-active in community development. Their lack of foresight by releasing COD5:WoW so early, using the same but enhanced engine will hopefully lead them back to the COD4 community. With so many team based games coming out next year, it will be extremely hard to compete.

Professional gamers are not defined by who they are but rather what they achieve. Many of the "PROs" are self defined, why? They don't see what gaming really is. In order for you to be a "professional", you need it to be your profession, something you give your heart and soul into, something that will one day feed your family. Will it feed your family? If its not a profession, then you cannot be labeled a professional. It's how it is, if you don't see it that way, you're never becoming a pro. Well... at least thats how i see it.

So why the pro talk? What am i trying to achieve? I'm not trying to go pro. I'm trying to make gaming in Malaysia a profession. So YOU can go pro.

In order to make a clear, concise and unbiased decision, you need to see how the world is going about its business. The world around us are losing teams, while Malaysia has more teams in SELANGOR than, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, Singapore, Australia and Philiphines COMBINED.

Why? We're building the community and growing before we go "pro". They think "pro" even before there's a community and their organizers are having a hard time doing things. Many join for the thousands of dollar prizes, we join for the sake of keeping the community going, even if its 800 bucks. If there is no community, there wont BE competitions. Look around us.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 19 2008, 01:59 PM

Mr.wackopedia.. Before this becomes a heated arguement.. what you're looking at is the original COD4:MW files.
If you check through PAM4.01 and Promod, you will find that the Stopping Power damage is capped at 35 damage.
means, Ak47 = Standard damage + 35. >.<

You dont need to dig up the MW files anymore.. when mods are applied, the mod settings are automatically applied to overcome such abnormalities in the game.
The calculations you have done are not invalid, but they do not apply to mods.

I have spoken to the singaporean community leaders numerous times about our settings, even at SCG. They don't really like promod either. They just have to use it because other people use it.

That is why i am planning a regionals to attract the promod users to use our modified settings.

We did not put ourselves at a dead-end, if you notice, we actually come up with better solutions each time we meet for a meeting. I call those meetings for the community. If you want a say, its easier to discuss it there.

Also, if i was a mod in this sub-forum, i would definitely ban Martintwj, not only for spamming, trolling, flamming and insulting, but also his lack of maturity in real life, when he registered his so called team for SCG and did not show.

This lack of responsibility hits us hard as gamers, one rotten egg ruins our image.

Currently, the COD4 malaysian community is regarded as the most mature, compared to even gamers from dota. Our compliance and timeliness to regulations has had a positive effect on organizers.

Which is why WGT has 24 slots instead of 16 now. The question was if i pulled strings for this to happen? No, this change was due to the lack of response from CS1.6 teams, leaving empty slots is not good for their image. They even asked me if it was possible to have 24 teams, i actually said its a risk, as most teams have foreign players. I even pitched for it to be an open tournament but they were adamant on keeping in local.

Promod vs PAM401 has always and will always be an issue solely because they are both the most popular. Like i stated before, both are still heavily used around the world. There is NO international ruleset... geez. If there was, we would not have this discussion.

The likes and dislikes about both mods are commonly grounded to the fact that they take into consideration
1. Perks - PAM4
2. Regional Use - ProMod

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Added on October 19, 2008, 11:13 pmWell, according to the modders, its more balanced..

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 19 2008, 11:13 PM

"The mod is being designed specifically for two upcoming summer LAN's to use. I am using the majority opinion of the players in those LAN's to make it.”

Same reason why we hold meetings. I have pretty much the same views as raf1 in terms of the community and competitive play. However, you must understand the difference between the EU community and ours.

1. EU communities are online server based communities, where as the cyber games in MY are usually LAN based. Online based tournaments in Malaysia are 1:60 against LAN Tournaments.
2. EU communities are multi-national and even so, are still disjunctioned and separated. What they have there, we have here. Same problems, different places, different sources. However, unlike them, we don't have modders. If i were to eventually use the mod, i'd need to understand how it works. We can't wait for them to help us when we need to run a tournament or league, i highly doubt they even know we exist.
3. Most of the players that complain about anything cannot specifically fix those problems. Even if we DO switch to Promod, who will be there to control its use? Mods dont run by themselves, unless you know whats in it specifically, changing any settings to fit your needs (training, tournaments, online/offline play) will be a challenge. Same goes to EU players, they all go to one person, there, its raf1.
4. EU players are more advanced and competitive simply because of their infrastructure. Gaming is a profession there, unlike ours which will still need a few years before it completely matures. Teams find it hard to survive monetarily here.

The gunsway bug he was referring to was fixed in 1.3 if im not mistaken along with the lean bug. Many of the players here started COD4 only at 1.5. Given those arguments, they were unnecessary information to local players.
However i do notice the kinks in the sway in PAM4.

I agree that PAM4 is beginning to get outdated, but you cannot assume that we wont change. What we're using is working for the community, so long as they community wants it. As it grows larger, more changes will be done.

Switching to promod now will kill the casual to amatuer players. Which means, you would probably see a 90% loss in the number of teams with other FPS games coming out soon, especially when they dislike the changes to the game.

What i dont understand about raf1's arguments about weapons and perks is that, he would have known that instead of removing Deep Impact, he could have made the game more accurate by changing the values of penetration. He perhaps overlooked the significance of perks to growing the community. By doing so, he hampered the games growth in EU. Simply removing the perk makes it easier for him as a programmer, but how often does a programmer understand user requirements? These changes require monitoring, not by 1 individual, not by the community but by a neutral organization dedicated to maintaining competitive gaming and balance for the good of both organizers and players. We're working on that, so you dont have to really worry about those things.

From the looks of things, we are going the right direction; but we have to take our time doing things, we need to think about the steps we take. Currently, ESPGL is the first step to where EU teams are. You need a league and organization dedicated to maintaining competitive gaming, while companies like New Era can focus on promoting the game to newer players. This way, you have a continous growth while maintaining a constant base of players. Currently, everything to do with COD4 is being done by New Era, which stretches their resources and manpower. (not like their complaining yet.. but still)