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 DVVT vs VVT-i vs VTEC vs i-DSI comparison

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dstl1128
post Oct 13 2008, 05:42 PM

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For the subject in hand, we have to separate phasing and lifting.



dstl1128
post Oct 14 2008, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(sphiroth @ Oct 14 2008, 07:12 AM)
AFAIK, i-Vtec can varies the lift infinitely instead of 2-stages as in Vtec by using solenoids to control the valve rather than lobes on cams. Because of this, you get better efficiency and power, but loose the 'feeling' of power surge when Vtec open.  nod.gif
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Oh no. Varies lift infinitely, for Honda sake, is AVTEC.

VTEC is plain lifting along with fix set of phase timing setting per lift mode.

i-VTEC is lifting, with continuous phase timing - or in Toyota terms, you can say VVT-i with lifting (VVTL-i). Because of the continuous phasing, i-VTEC will be smoother (& more efficient) hence the non-existence illusion of boost.


Anyway, AFAIK (correct me pls), these are the group:
Continous lifting + continuous phasing: AVTEC (Honda) , Valvetronic (BMW), Valvematic (Toyota)
Lifting + continuous phasing: MIVEC (Mitsubishi), i-VTEC (Honda), VVTL-i (Toyota), Neo VVL (Nissan), VarioCam Plus (Porsche)
Lifting with variable lifting point: i-VTEC (L15A new Honda City)
Lifting + phasing: VTEC (Honda, on ~4krpm for example), CPS (Campro)
Lifting: CPS? (Campro) By logic, shouldn't have this since lifting already uses another cam lube, the lube itself should also have its phase differs.
Continuous phasing: (dual)VVT-i (Toyota), DVVT (Perodua), CVTC (Nissan), double-VANOS (BMW), (dual)AVCS (Subary), VarioCam (Porsche), CVVT (Hyundai)
Phasing (no idea which category of phasing): VANOS (BMW), VTC (Nissan)
Phasing with fix phasing point: (some say is) semi-VVT (Toyota, 4AGE 20v Silvertop on 4krpm)
Phasing with variable phasing point: VVT (Toyota of 4AGE 20v Blacktop)

Most the the above technology operate on intake cam only. However there are variants that functions on both intake and exhaust using the same name. And for continental lovers, you could add into the list. wink.gif
Newer engines might employ camless valve timing technology, so no more DOHC vs SOHC tongue.gif. But might be entirely be replaced by eletric engines. Nobody knows....


p/s: I put Campro CPS on both category with a '?' because I'm unsure about it whether it came with just lifting only or, together with phasor system.


Added on October 14, 2008, 10:17 amThere are also another whole load of air intake technology, eg. IAFM, VIM... tongue.gif, that will also play an important role in the engine.


Added on October 14, 2008, 10:19 amAs for iDSI, to my understanding, it doesn't come with any valve timing technology, but rather it is the air intake technology (long & short runner) built into the engine with dual spark plug plus a leaner config that make it an illusion of 'efficient'.


Added on February 20, 2009, 10:30amAs for the L15A i-VTEC in the new City it doesn't have continuous phasing, unlike the K20 series i-VTEC. It is just the* lifting point* is variable instead of fixed on 4krpm.

There is also big different of "continuous lifting" vs "fix lifting height but infinite lifting point" vs "plain vanilla lifting" and also "phasing" vs "infinite phasing point" vs "continuous phasing". rclxub.gif The more line I draw the more complicated it is.

This post has been edited by dstl1128: Nov 17 2009, 08:25 AM
dstl1128
post Oct 14 2008, 10:25 AM

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Well the old L15A is designed to have balanced FC as well as power. So it employ VTEC-E (or E-VTEC, damn I'm confuse with those name) with mixture of VTEC.

B16 uses more aggressive timing and... ... ... so both engine purpose is different. wink.gif L15A looks more similar do D series engine than B.



dstl1128
post Oct 14 2008, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(ZeroSP @ Oct 14 2008, 10:29 AM)
Campro is fixed cam profiling which the engineer said nothing much, while CPS it's like they modified it into 2 set of fixed valve timing to provide better low end torque, no lifting for CPS and Campro.
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Sure or not? That means I have to change to:

QUOTE
Anyway, AFAIK (correct me pls), these are the group:
Continous lifting + continuous phasing: AVTEC (Honda) , Valvetronic (BMW), Valvematic (Toyota)
Lifting + continuous phasing: MIVEC, i-VTEC, VVTL-i, Neo VVL (Nissan), VarioCam Plus
Lifting + phasing: VTEC, CPS?
Lifting: CPS? (Campro)
Continuous phasing: (dual)VVT-i, DVVT, CVTC (Nissan), double-VANOS (BMW), (dual)AVCS (Subary), VarioCam (Porsche), CVVT (Hyundai)
Phasing: VVT (eg. 4AGE Silver/Blacktop fame), VANOS (BMW), CPS (Campro)
This post has been edited by dstl1128: Oct 14 2008, 10:37 AM
dstl1128
post Oct 14 2008, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSP @ Oct 14 2008, 04:24 PM)
Such as the Lotus Exige S, Elise... They are using Toyota 1.8 VVT-i engine for Elise, and for Exige S, they supercharge it.
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Exige (and Exige S) uses VVTL-i 2ZZGE Toyota engine with Lotus own ECU and settings.


Added on October 14, 2008, 8:20 pm
QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ Oct 14 2008, 05:21 PM)
thats already on-crank bhp for honda city.. after all the transmission loss, i wonder how the L15A will win  blush.gif
*
Probably 4spd auto Waja CPS vs L15A CVT?




This post has been edited by dstl1128: Oct 14 2008, 08:20 PM
dstl1128
post Oct 15 2008, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ Oct 15 2008, 02:31 AM)
but cvt transmission loss way much lesser than conventional autobox wo sweat.gif
*
I though that's the reason L15A+CVT could possibly wins Waja Campro CPS auto.
dstl1128
post Oct 15 2008, 08:41 PM

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How about car weight? Gear change latency?
dstl1128
post Oct 16 2008, 01:52 PM

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Maybe the 'gay' he meant is the happy/merry type, not the homo type.
dstl1128
post Feb 20 2009, 10:21 AM

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When talking about these abbrevation, you have to make sure you are taking "marketing keyword" vs "marketing keyword" instead of "marketing keyword" vs "general term".

VVT, variable valve timing as general term, can be said to mean "the engine have this variable valve technology", but not specific technology from specific company. And as a general term, it basically encapsulate all the valve technology you know out there.

VVT, as marketing term, can also means the technology used in the 15+yrs old engine 20valve 4AGE - which is vastly different from VVT-i (another marketing term) from Toyota of current cars.


QUOTE(NTX @ Feb 20 2009, 09:48 AM)
dvvt and vvt is the same..
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AFAIK, DVVT is the marketing term for Perodua VVT technology. However, I'm not sure which VVT you compare to - the 15yrs old one or the general term. If you mean the 15yr old one, it is definitely not the same.

This post has been edited by dstl1128: Feb 20 2009, 10:23 AM
dstl1128
post Feb 20 2009, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(jamik @ Feb 20 2009, 10:22 AM)
VVL neo should be in list... one of most powerfull engine by Nissan... design to beat vtec,,, nod.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif
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Already mentioned few pages back. wink.gif

p/s: Of course it will beat VTEC, because it is more advance (refer to the link above).
dstl1128
post Mar 4 2009, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(SeLrAhC @ Mar 4 2009, 06:06 PM)
while japs are still into valve tech... vw already got http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Stratified_Injection

is it better than all these funny valve thingie?
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Huh? The wiki point to the technology that the japs already have in the 90s. While VW started in early 2000.

 

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