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 RM2822.16 gone via unauthorized transaction in PBe, Please be extra careful!!!

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cherroy
post Oct 10 2008, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(felicious @ Sep 26 2008, 02:08 PM)
Can I use my old IC to apply ATM card? I thought they will scan the IC first?I had cancelled my IC and they can't do anything with my IC, right. And the PBB is not that stupid to give an ATM card to someone that is so different frm my IC picture.
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I don't know your details situation.

I think you source of problem is here.

Banks don't scan your IC, they merely take photocopy of your IC in the verification process.

E-banking here need TAC to complete the transaction, without it, E-transfer won't be done.

Most problem facing by e-banking, is phishing site that taking in people user name and password.


cherroy
post Oct 11 2008, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(JustAsking @ Oct 10 2008, 11:07 PM)
IMO, it is useless for the victim Felicious or other people,  to now speculate as to how the fraud was committed. The general consensus so far from what i read is that no1 knows and I think it's not necc to waste time wondering how it was done.

The most important issue is "Bank don't wanna take the responsibility. Bank accused that I am the one who did the transaction." - TS

So, the focus should be what Felicious should do to get her money back!

To do so, she must prove that the transaction is not done or authorized by her.

I don't do e-banking at all since i have never trusted it. So I do not 100% know how the process is; but from what i read on this thread, a TAC must be sent by PBB to TS's nominated hp number.

TS says that the telco account is under her mother's name - it doesnt matter as long as she's the one using the hp number and the TAC should have gone to this number.

So, she needs to prove that NO TAC was sms'ed to that HP number on the day of the fraudulent transaction.

It is not for Felicious to prove how the fraud was carried out but only to prove that it was not her to carried out the transaction.

If she can do that, there is no way PBB can refuse to refund her money.
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It is as important as well to know how this fraud case being carried out, as it serves important preventive measure for others for it to happen again.

Then it came another problem, TS mentioned HP was also being stolen.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 11 2008, 08:57 AM
cherroy
post Oct 11 2008, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ Oct 11 2008, 12:16 PM)
Did you lose your mobile phone, or leave your mobil phone somewhere on that date? h/p security is fallible, because someone can change the number if they have the name and password. It might also be possible to intercept phone data and decrypt it (might take a while though, unless SMS is sent in the clear smile.gif )
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I do think intercept phone data and decrypt it has low chance being TS case, as even the they have the ability, they won't doing on TS with 2K plus only.

Several key area we should focus on.

1. TS lose IC, HP and ATM card

2. With HP, TAC can be obtained by the 'hacker' because TAC send directly to the HP from the E-banking, so this create possibility to create a transaction.

3. TAC can also being generated through ATM machine, but if the 'hacker' knew the ATM pin to generate TAC, it is better to withdraw cash directly, don't need to create an online transaction already. So 'hacker' doesn't know the ATM pin (or TS has already cancelled the ATM)

4. So with no ATM pin, only E-transfer can be done to withdraw the money.

5. So if hacker got online user name and password, they can do the transfer already because HP is in their hand.

6. So main question and key area is how they obtain those username and password. TS write in the HP or on the stolen stuff?



cherroy
post Oct 11 2008, 05:54 PM

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The other speculation we can generate is that there is a phishing website that you previous has been logging on.
This is one of the common and highest probability of e-banking fraud.

FYI, the HP number which TAC being sent to can be changed one.
cherroy
post Oct 18 2008, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(felicious @ Oct 18 2008, 10:30 AM)
My username n password is used to log in to my PBe. TAC is applied to my phone number.
Nobody in my family can access to my PBe. Impossible my family members took out the money. If so, they will let me know before I make the report.
I asked for the 3rd party account details, but they refuse to give me. I thought I am the victim and I am suppose to know the details? Public Bank can't give me any answer. And the money was actually taken out already. PBB said then it is the police's job.

My phone is always on. The transaction was done on 12.16pm. At that time, I was at home preparing to go college, as my class started at 12.30pm. Or, I might be already at college for class. My handphone 95% is always by my side.

Yes, the bank told me it is my number.
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Banks can't reveal third party details to you, it is a standard protocol. They only can give if requested by police investigation purpose, but they still won't give the details to you.
Even you have the third party details, it doesn't help you case to claim the transaction is not done by you. As banks said it is done with your password and TAC.

In order to prove the transaction never being done by you, is investigation through how the transaction is carried out, ie. to prove you didn't receive the TAC and how your password being compromised.

There must be something wrong in between, it could be a simple reason, most of the time.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 18 2008, 10:49 AM
cherroy
post Oct 18 2008, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(keith_hjinhoh @ Oct 18 2008, 01:38 PM)
Girls, any updates on police investigations? Perhaps you could press them to work harder.

This case is actually quite simple.

1] Go to bank, ask for the other account holder name & address

2] Detained the person with warrant, investigate on his account, transactions.

3] Cross-reference with felicious report.

That would do the job, aren't they?
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The third part is not robbing or stealing from TS account. So police can't do it. It is just a E-transfer.
TS must prove it is a fraud case which until now TS has no strong position except no TAC being received. TS needs to prove those transaction is carried withouts TAC or TAC never obtained.
That's why we need to investigate how this fraud case being carried out also.

You must think from the other side, from police (enforcer) perspective, what if TS is telling lie or TS transferred the money but claim not doing after that and claim compensation from banks or TS actually transferred but regretted and try to make amend by telling lie? or whatever other reason.
Although I knew TS is not falling into these category, but from a police (as an enforcer), you must think from neutral point. No offence to TS or anyone.
Just like someone had mentioned about credit card fraud as earlier post, it is not a fraud after all.




cherroy
post Nov 15 2008, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(felicious @ Nov 14 2008, 05:57 PM)
I know about the phishing website, but IINM, I never log on to that website.
My house don't have internet connection at that period. I forgot when was the last time I logged on to my e-banking. I logged on to PBB once at night, but failed because DiGi EDGE is very slow that day. But, I am not sure whether is it 25th or not. The transaction was done on 25th noon. If he manage to get my TAC, it is already expired.

By the way, I am meeting an inspector this Sunday. Will update you guys after meeting him.
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Appreciate keep us update.

It is important as informative and preventive for other as well.

Hope you can solve it as soon as possible.

cherroy
post Nov 18 2008, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(felicious @ Nov 17 2008, 11:14 PM)
Inspector said that he can't help me much. All he can do is to investigate the third party. After investigation is done, they will decide to charge the 3rd party or not. However, the money won't be refunded back. The only way to get the money back is to sue the bank. IF I can win the case, the court will order the bank to refund to me.

He said that he handled a lot of this kinda cases before. Almost every bank also have. He mentioned PBB, RHB and even Maybank shocking.gif I am still using Maybank2u...

About the TAC, he ask me to go to DiGi myself.
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The TAC holds the key whether you can win the case or not. It must be proven, that TAC never send to your HP number or pre-defined HP number in the online account for TAC.


cherroy
post Nov 19 2008, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(felicious @ Nov 19 2008, 01:29 AM)
Nope. I went there alone. My friends were busy on that time. I met the inspector on Monday, as he postponed it to Monday.

Quoted from another thread
I didn't click any e-mails from bank. However, on August, I remember something wrong on PBe.
When I tried to log in, I need to apply TAC, and key in on the website, just like the picture above. After applying TAC, then only I can re-enter my username and password to log in. However, the website has problem, where I can't enter the website at all. Is this the phishing website? Gosh!! Is there any way to track back what website I logged on to on August?

**How to quote attached picture?**
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This could be a phising website that obtain your information!

It is no need to get TAC just purely for log in purpose.

TAC is only required when want to make transfer of fund time or changing crucial information of your account.

Always make sure the internet address is exactly the same (100%, not even a single word and make sure it is https. As most people don't bother to look at the address bar, as far as the page is similar, people presume it is the correct website

This post has been edited by cherroy: Nov 19 2008, 09:55 AM
cherroy
post Nov 20 2008, 09:33 AM

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Rule of thumb, never ever click the link in the email.

Be sure and cautious when dealing with money online., from https to exact website address on IE or Firefox.

Whenever something abnormal than usual, like TS case need to get TAC before log in, then hold back, don't do anything.

I think the case summary would be:

TS log in phishing website, the phising website told TS to get TAC before log in, so TS applied the TAC and log into the phising website, then they have the TAC already, afterwards, TS log in with usual log in name and log in passwords.

So, they have all the details they need to do the con job, log in name, password and TAC already, which enable for them to make the fund transfer, as TAC won't be expired in 1 days or several hours time which lead to the fund transfer.

So in this case, TS won't be able to claim back money from the bank. But need to report as third party account could be useful for police to investigate this matter. But third party account generally won't be the person doing this, they (doing con-job one) probably borrow others person name to create the account only as they are not stupid to leave the trace.
cherroy
post Nov 20 2008, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(Vv.SoViEt.vV @ Nov 20 2008, 09:43 AM)
oh and btw, your money is transferred to another guy account? that azshole probably is the one sending the email so, maybe you want to take action against him and check his account, investigate whether they are other complainees? Chances are high IF there are other complainees. If you are alone then, 99.9999999% you wont get back your money.
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That third party receiving the fund transfer probably somebody in the street that don't know about the transaction either, it can be somebody give him merely of a few ten ringgit, then use his name/IC to create the account, while the actual behind person or syndicate then can just use ATM card to withdraw the money, which leave no trace of the actual culprit.

No, it is remote chance of getting money even though police can catch the third party person, as those money surely already gone, while bank won't hold responsibility on it.
cherroy
post Nov 20 2008, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(four_toes @ Nov 20 2008, 01:48 PM)
correct me if i'm wrong but aint pbe TAC requested online can only last for 30minutes?and she said transaction is done at noon the next day. This online transaction for such amount,is it like cheque deposit that needs like half a day period to complete and then transaction time recorded? just want to clear things out
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It depends on bank policy which can be vary, some last 2 hours, some longer.
cherroy
post Nov 23 2008, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(winnie33 @ Nov 22 2008, 11:07 PM)
ya its www.maybank2u.com.my laugh.gif  its a typo sorry.

and i just got the tag... its around hr+ after i requested it lol...
and its expired when i received this tags.... thier server seems lagging  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
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Sometimes, it is telco server.

When peak time, we also encounter SMS that being sent can't reach immediately, sometimes lag few hours.
cherroy
post Dec 3 2008, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(victor131490 @ Dec 3 2008, 10:43 AM)
can i know TS's password? i mean is it a combination of numerics and words?
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Whatever password, even 100 digit make no different.

As the phishing website obtained your passwords and TAC exactly, through their phishing webpage.


cherroy
post Dec 3 2008, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(LaiN87 @ Dec 3 2008, 10:56 AM)
But if they managed to phish for your password it still doesn't explain how they got pass the TAC to bank in to bank accounts other than favourite 3rd parties.

They can't exactly phish for your TAC you know. Cos you get hourly TAC from the original website and it usually works for 1 transaction only. Even with a keylogger after you have done your transaction, the hacker can't take it and used again.
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Some TAC last for hours, whereby the con-party has the time to make transfer transaction.

For this thread/TS situation, both TAC and password are obtained through phishing website.

If lazy to refer back, for TS case, the abnormality is through the phishing website asked TS to obtained TAC before log in. So TS obtained TAC but those TAC is actually being used in phishing website, not the real website. So even the TAC last for 1 transaction, they still can use the TAC at the real website.
cherroy
post Jan 21 2009, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(twotwopig @ Jan 21 2009, 02:02 PM)
Just a point to ponder.

TS log into phishing website, phishing website ask TS to get TAC before login.
TS go where and get TAC? From the original website? Then go back to phishing website to use the TAC to login again?

Is this the way to get the TAC and pass it to the phishing website?
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Possible, but even TS hasn't described or remembered properly what she had done.

It is just after month of posting and query and discussion, only TS realished there was something wrong on previous log in procedure which was totally abnormal from usual.

 

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