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Home Theatre LCD and Plasma TV Discussion Thread | V3, Which is right for you?

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SUSgogo2
post Dec 26 2008, 10:47 PM

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I think Plasma is bad because 1024x720 only. It's not 1:1 mapping to 720p movie. I feel sad for people who bought such resolution that is not
even half/fake HD.


Added on December 26, 2008, 10:49 pm
QUOTE(jootat @ Dec 26 2008, 10:11 PM)
i wonder ... why my Astro PQ so poor? i am using LCD screen ... Samsung Series 5 46" ... please advice.  thx.
*
Astro resolution is just SD or lower (non-digital broadcast). And 46" is
Widescreen resolution. I guess the TV stretch and enlarge the pixel with
averaging algorithm. So of course the PQ looks bad. Only CRT TV will
give you good PQ with Astro.

This post has been edited by gogo2: Dec 26 2008, 10:49 PM
SUSgogo2
post Dec 27 2008, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(ic-klass @ Dec 27 2008, 01:05 AM)
well then i wonder why plasma still hold so many award for PQ - e.g pioneer Kuro..

rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  Today went to HN sunway, speechless and amazed by how stunning and riche the PQ on KURO 50in and 42in. No wonder they wont sooo many award and recomendation - even they are only 1024 x 768 (HD Ready). So i guess it just not the pixel resolution that matter. Many forms/factors come around to give a good PQ.

IMHO, above 40in plasma win hands down (HD or Full HD). In sub 40in (37, 32, 29, 22,...) LCD win - just because there is no Plasma less than 40in!!. Then again, it just me.. biggrin.gif

Now, will need to convinved the missus (home and finance ministry) to take the 42in Kuro rather than the 40in Pv80 or 42in py800...(need to work fast, today HN showed 42in kuro at rm6399..!!)

drool.gif  drool.gif  drool.gif
*
1024x768 is not even HD Ready. Please read again what is HD Ready. brows.gif

I'll rather buy a HD Ready or FullHD because I always think that anything not
HD Ready or FullHD is actually SD. tongue.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 27 2008, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Dec 27 2008, 09:53 AM)
I thought "HD Ready" refers to any display that is capable of accepting and displaying a high-definition signal at either 720p, 1080i using a component video or HDMI.. tongue.gif
*
Wah, that's definitely wrong.... laugh.gif

QUOTE(iamsobloodysick @ Dec 27 2008, 10:00 AM)
anything not FULL HD is actually SD? downgraded 2 levels from the FULL HD standard?!?!? lol...

i guess he is applying the theory of HD ready from LCD panel into plasma HD panel.

LCD TV =1366 x 768 (real HD ready) vs  PLASMA TV 1024 x 768 (fake HD ready).   rclxub.gif
*
Did you read properly my post? I said not HD Ready (720p) or Full HD.
Of course its not 2 level downgrade. Its really not HD Read nor Full HD.
So of course it is lousier than HD Ready.

QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 27 2008, 10:06 AM)
dun char him la..  tongue.gif


Added on December 27, 2008, 10:09 am

kenot kenot..  LCD 1366x768 is not really 720 or 1080p either.. so dun have 1:1 pixel mapping so it's actually worst than 480P SD tongue.gif
*
doh.gif 1366x768 have 1:1 pixel mapping with black bars... I can't believe you said there's no 1:1 mapping icon_idea.gif


Added on December 27, 2008, 10:29 amJust in case you guys don't understand 1:1 pixel mapping:

user posted image


Added on December 27, 2008, 10:31 amI don't understand. After so many years, no one know about 720p/1080p and 1:1 mapping importances. I guess I'm here to educate you all.

This post has been edited by gogo2: Dec 27 2008, 10:31 AM
SUSgogo2
post Dec 27 2008, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 27 2008, 10:58 AM)
I didn;'t know you on the HTDV steering committee, can define new terminology for HDTV specs wan ar.....  biggrin.gif
*
ok la... i'm just talking nonsense here....

Let's come to real issue. Why no one care about 1:1 mapping, Half HD (720p) and FullHD (1080p)
anymore? I didn't come to this forum for so long and seems everybody don't care oredi. I just feel
weird.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 27 2008, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Dec 27 2008, 11:05 AM)
gogo2, 1024 X 768 is HD in terms of 4:3 ratio
*
I don't think we have 4:3 HD source. So its kinda useless.
All we have is 16:9 bro. And thats 1280x720p. Imagine all
the missing pixel from a movie. cry.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 27 2008, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 27 2008, 11:17 AM)
I still do care but nowadays if your source 1080p blu-rays exceed your Display resolution i,.e. less than 1080p TV panel or projector.... then not much to worry about anymore..
*
Thanks for still care. At least, we have some one here who knows stuff... thumbup.gif rclxms.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 28 2008, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(neoardi @ Dec 28 2008, 11:42 AM)
I just want to know this... why the th-42pv80h only got resolution 1024x768? thats not even 720p right?  doh.gif
@rx- where hv u been man? long time not see u online...  hmm.gif
*
That's why la. Its not even 720p. Only weird people or people who kena conned
go and by PV80 rclxub.gif whistling.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 28 2008, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Dec 28 2008, 11:20 PM)
aiya.. that means i kena conned d... but n'mind ler.. bought pv80 for wifey to watch astro & dramas so should be ok biggrin.gif

will get 9series for myself tongue.gif
*
If non-HD source, its ok bro. Its great for watching DVD and Astro.

QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 28 2008, 11:22 PM)
nothing wrong if they watch mostly DVDs and Astro.. it still gives a very good PQ compared to LCD for these 2 sources..

besides, if you concern about PQ quality, what source do you have? how Blu-rays disc so far?
*
Yeah, nothing wrong if DVD and Astro. Ahem Blu-Ray disc is RM60 only. tongue.gif

QUOTE(ic-klass @ Dec 28 2008, 11:40 PM)
Then, what say you about Pioneer award winners Plasmas. e.g. the 42in Kuro 428xg also is 1024x768. Does pioneer tried to con the critics and various magazines (including the lame as me and you) that it is "HD" ready but not HD. and yet managed to bit the crap out of every contender in the same class or above and currently hold the best PQ in flat HDTV... rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif If they purposely tried (to con people), then I'm conned all the way (up to my a****).  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif

Like i said ealier in my previous post, the most important thing is PQ. All the pixels, connections, sizes, are add up bonuses. Hey, correct me if i'm wrong - you buy tv for watching or for what..?? I dont mind missing the 5% around the edges of the screen in 1080 resolution, or not 1 to 1 mapping. As long as the main characters/scenes/action occurs in the middle - that's the directors intention anyway, delivered through cinema/life-like quality - thats the reason to buy and watch tv. 
*
Actually, I'm just saying kena conned by people who tell them to buy 42" non-HD plasma. Actually, why not
buy 50" plasma. The 50" PV80 is 1366x768. If wanna buy PV80, just buy the 50" one la.... wink.gif

But there's really big difference between 720p and non-720p. Go check out yourselves.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 29 2008, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 28 2008, 11:54 PM)
yes got difference between 42 inch  1366x768 panels and 1024x768...

PV80 50inch how much ar?
*
I think 6 to 7k. tongue.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 29 2008, 12:51 AM

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QUOTE(Barricade @ Dec 29 2008, 12:41 AM)
That's a lot of bold statement coming from someone who I presume doesn't even own a LCD TV or Plasma. There's a few things going on here.

The two HDTV resolutions are 1280x720 and 1920x1080.

First, manufacturers use the term "720p display" in their marketing literature loosely and incorrectly. These days, they tend to use it for anything that isn't a "1080p display". So let's put that one to rest first.

The native resolution of a 1366x768 panel is not 720p. If anything, it is 768p, since all input is scaled to the 768 lines. But, of course, 768p is not a resolution that is used in the source material. Only 720p and 1080i/p are used. We should count 480i/p also, for SD material and DVDs.

In the case of plasma, it is fiendishly difficult to make plasma panels with small pixels. This is why 1080p plasmas are so long in coming and why 42 inch plasma panels are 1024x768.

How can 1024x768 be HD, you ask. Many dozens of people have asked that over and over here in the forum. The answer is, the Consumer Electronics Association has decided that any display with at least 720 lines can be called an HDTV and have the logo. There is some basis in fact for this because the human eye is more sensitive to vertical resolution than to horizontal resolution. This has been taken advantage of for years in NTSC because the horizontal resolution of NTSC is really poor. It is also taken advantage of in so-called HD-lite where the video is resampled to 1440x1080 on things like satellite, or maybe even shot with a 1440x1080 camera instead of the 1920x1080 camera you thought the network was using, and you probably didn't even notice.

We have had intense wars about whether that CEA definition is legitimate. Believe what you will, and if you don't think 1024x768 is HD, buy something else. Vote with your wallet. Simple as that.

In the case of LCD, it is difficult to make large pixels. This is one reason why 1366x768 has been used. Also, please do not forget that a lot of HD is in 1080i, so 1920x1080 has to be downscaled to 1366x768. Conversely, 1280x720 has to be upscaled to 1366x768.

To those who say, but wouldn't it be a good idea if the panel were 1280x720 so at least one of the resolutions wouldn't have to be scaled, I say nope! For one thing, you'd be downscaling 1920x1080 all the way down to 1280x720, so you'd lose a lot of resolution on the very format that is supposed to be giving you lots of detail, which is also what most channels broadcast in. For another thing, the extra resolution is really helpful on things like diagonal lines, where you can smooth out the line. If you were in 1280x720 on a 32 or 37 inch display, you'd probably be complaining that the display looks all blocky and pixelated because the pixels are just too big and the diagonal lines have too much stairstepping.

Turns out you can get 1280x720, but you have to go all the way down to 22 and 23 inches, where it works nicely.

Oh, and one other thing that comes up over and over again. The resolution of 1080i is not "540p", it is 1920x1080, dang it. If you were to shoot a still life, you would have 1920x1080 worth of pixels. It's simply that you have to wait 1/30 second rather than 1/60 second to get all the pixels. If it's a live shot. If it's film, it was shot at a mere 24 frames per second, so (inverse telecine, 3:2 pulldown, which is actually reverse 3:2 pulldown) done correctly gives you back your movie.
*
Do you really have to state the first line?

Anyway, good information there. But as a perfectionist, I would like to see pixel as it is.
So I would rather have 1366x768 with 1:1 pixel mapping. But if not, then I rather have
more pixel than 1024x768.

And 1080i eventhough is 1080 pixel, but its interlaced. In reality, its not perfect 1080p.
You know 1080p is nicer than 1080i.

QUOTE(Barricade @ Dec 29 2008, 12:45 AM)
I have both PV80 42" Plasma and LG80 42" FULL HD LCD. There are ZERO difference when watching 720p source. I have no idea where you get that from judging with my own eyes.
*
If your eye can't differentiate, then I can't blame you. There's big different
between PV80 42" and PV80 50". Pls don't compare between your LCD and Plasma. wink.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 29 2008, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 29 2008, 02:09 AM)
I also curious leh... your standards in video reproduction so high, what setup i..e display/source/media you got ar? must be very kheng wan..
*
I thought I already posted in my previous post in reply to you that I'm only using CRT? cry.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 29 2008, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Dec 29 2008, 07:02 PM)
dunno about others.. but if same price, I'll take the 50in 1366x768 branded plasma over a full HD NON-LED-BACKLIGHT LCD..
*
I 100% support you. I'll never buy anything below 1366x768 resolution.
My dream is to buy 1920x1080 resolution Plasma or Projector. Still waiting
until the day come when 1080p is standard resolution for TV.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(naruto_kun @ Dec 29 2008, 11:51 PM)
Ouch tongue.gif
Erm...rm3.3k the last time I see...Shouldn't be more than rm3.5k

Regarding fullHD vs HD ready, at the shop, it is quite hard for my eyes to actually see the difference. Need people to actually tell me one is FullHD while the other is not. Was comparing a 37' samsung full HD lcd with the pv80. Both looks great. At last, took the pv80 because of screen size, 5 year warranty and astro viewing. Btw, the pv80 is only HD ready. But how come I can set 1080p as the output display for the xbox 360?
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PV80 42" is not HD ready doh.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(naruto_kun @ Dec 30 2008, 12:22 AM)
Eh...really? Then how come can play HD signal?
*
It just convert it to display at 1024x768

QUOTE(attentional @ Dec 30 2008, 12:22 AM)
i'm getting sick of your posts, trying to change how the world thinks,  i think barricade cleared everything for us already, anything which can produce 720 lines is OFFICIALLY DEFINED AS HD READY. perhaps you can go live in your own perfect world where you can try to create a new rule where 42" plasma is not HD ready.  doh.gif  doh.gif
*
really not? i tot the world always think that only 1366x768 is HD ready? I've read a lot of
forum and everyone standard is 1366x768. I also agree with what barricade said. But unfortunately,
the world thinks that HD ready is 1366x768. It is you that want to change the world think doh.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 01:40 PM

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BHB is terrible shop. I bought >RM10k stuff from them and I find their business ethic got problem. They'll sell you old stuff cheaply as new. I'll never buy from them.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(electron @ Dec 30 2008, 02:29 PM)
hmmm... one of their salesperson tried to push me to commit on Sunday at RM3299, saying no such price will be offered on Monday.
he mentioned the free gifts are the HDMI cables and S-video cables. no mention of the Tupperware (which is worth a bit of money i guess) nor the shipping (but i assume it should be free)
i didn't ask about any surcharge for easy payment though but i know SenQ and SEC can do it for a RM25 fee
*
Don't buy from BHB. You'll regret.
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(electron @ Dec 30 2008, 03:22 PM)
i won't write them off just yet as i've some pleasant experience buying from them
*
Is it? Then I'm the unlucky one. I really have bad experience buying from them.
I got Philip 34" CRT Pixel Plus from them. And it has hissing sound too. I wonder
why all their TV got hissing sound sad.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 10:36 PM

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I still cannot believe you guys forking out 6k to buy non-HD ready standard TV tongue.gif
SUSgogo2
post Dec 30 2008, 11:02 PM

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no hard feeling bro.... probably I'm buying the same thing too if I really go and compare.... tongue.gif
SUSgogo2
post Jan 1 2009, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Dec 31 2008, 10:47 PM)
Bro, why PY800H and not PY850H? Must be the great discount  tongue.gif
*
both not much different also in feature. of course get the cheapest one tongue.gif

I wonder what is the diff with added HDMI with deep color vs HDMI only with xv color.. hmm.gif


Added on January 1, 2009, 4:15 pmI just found out that PY850 support deep color (48bit) while PY800 does not. hmm.gif i wonder how big difference is that....

This post has been edited by gogo2: Jan 1 2009, 04:15 PM

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