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> Illegal Immigrants in malaysia, Who we need to blame. (Social Issues)

vandridel
post Aug 2 2008, 11:57 AM


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So, you think too many immigrates (indo,bangla,philipping) in our country?

the government has take one step to wipe all them.


QUOTE
Kuala Lumpur (AsiaNews/Agencies) – Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi is under attack for an eleventh-hour reversal on his pledge to hunt down and expel illegal immigrants, mainly Indonesians.

The semi-official New Straits Times today said the government was now in a "Velvet glove mode", trying to persuade illegal immigrants to leave rather than force them out.

According to official estimates, the country is home to about 800,000 illegal migrant workers, mostly Indonesians, including many Acehnese. The total number of undocumented residents should be around 1.2 million.

For the popular daily The Star, Badawi's decision to postpone the repatriation of illegal immigrants "is embarrassing to the nation".

Yesterday, the cabinet decided not to launch a crackdown on undocumented workers that would have entailed mobilising a corps of 500,000 volunteers. "Instead of detaining and jailing them we will finger-print them and advise them to go home voluntarily and then release them," Home Affairs Minister Azmi Khalid said.

Critics say the new approach will just encourage illegal immigrants to remain permanently.

In its defence, the government said that it acted out of compassion for neighbouring Indonesia which was recently hit by a devastating tsunami. Most illegal immigrants in Malaysia are from Indonesia, 40,000 of them from hardest-hit province of Aceh, on the island of Sumatra. Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono had in fact made a formal request to delay the repatriation operation.

Unconvinced, Badawi's adversaries called the Prime Minister's decision a "surrender to Indonesia".

"The government has the support of the people to deport the Indonesian illegal immigrants. What is it waiting for?" wrote Wong Chun Wai, executive editor of The Star.

Public opinion polls indicate that most Malaysians are against illegal immigrants who are seen as responsible for increasing the crime rate and as a burden on society.

Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak countered the critics arguing that "the softer approach" does not mean that the government was wavering in its stance against illegal immigration. On the contrary, it remained steadfast in its goal. (LF)


From the above article. our PM is being too soft with them. But, instead by using immigration to solve this problem our government using RELA to do the job wiping the immigrates. But indonesian people taking seiously to this. Check the spoiler.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



what do you think of other chance to prevent them?
Malaysia being too harsh or not to handle this.

discuss here.

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fyire
post Aug 2 2008, 12:47 PM


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You'll find that the bulk of the issues is to do with the red tape on the handling of such illegal immigrants, as per asked by the fellow from the Star, what's with the wait on the deportation?

There's also the extremities of RELA where you'll find that the response from the Indonesians in that article that's cited points more towards this as well.

The other interesting thing in regards to this is also in regards to human trafficking for profit. Where you get foreign workers entering the country with a proper work permit (which they paid an arm and a leg for) only to find that they've gotten conned by the agency as the companies that they're supposed to work for either do not exist or no longer exists. Their work permits are then rendered void, and they suddenly became illegal immigrants. The sad thing about this as well is also to do with the red tape involved in handling such cases, especially when they just want to go home, but are stuck here instead.
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raul88
post Aug 2 2008, 01:24 PM


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this PATI people contribute to many crimes in our country
please by all means send them back home
if go to klang city feels like somewhere in indonesia


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wolfverine81
post Aug 2 2008, 01:25 PM


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from what that i`ve heard and see,
many immigrant that i see either a thief,
a criminal,
or someone who think this is their country,
Hero kG Dusun,
many dont come here to work,
just wan easy money or running from Indonesia police,
thats why they are here,
my grandfather home been rob by 3 Indon,
my home 1 time,
if i`m there when the tragedy happen,
i would cut of their hand,
then they would post a letter to Indon Pm,
said that Malaysian people will cut of immigrant hand if they get caught,
heheheheheh icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif
but really,
if i caught an immigrant or any Malaysian robbing Malaysian house,
i`ll cut of their hand,
don wan go to work,
jus wan take forcefully from others.
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raul88
post Aug 2 2008, 01:38 PM


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QUOTE(wolfverine81 @ Aug 2 2008, 01:25 PM)
from what that i`ve heard and see,
many immigrant that i see either a thief,
a criminal,
or someone who think this is their country,
Hero kG Dusun,
many dont come here to work,
just wan easy money or running from Indonesia police,
thats why they are here,
my grandfather home been rob by 3 Indon,
my home 1 time,
if i`m there when the tragedy happen,
i would cut of their hand,
then they would post a letter to Indon Pm,
said that Malaysian people will cut of immigrant hand if they get caught,
heheheheheh  icon_idea.gif  icon_idea.gif  icon_idea.gif
but really,
if i caught an immigrant or any Malaysian robbing Malaysian house,
i`ll cut of their hand,
don wan go to work,
jus wan take forcefully from others.
*
my parent's house also hav been robbed by this indon PATI
i was not around at that time
when these ******* manage to break in around 4 am (there are 3 of them)
they go to my sister's room and put a screwdriver on her neck
they told my sister to go the masterbedroom and pretend to be having stomachache
luckily my father sense something wrong
and he opened the door and hit these ******* with a baseball bat while my sister manage to escaped from other PATI that hold her
the robbers run like hell.....they only manage to take my sister's hp and wallet
since then my mother cannot sleep for like 3 months and have to undergo therapy session
.........
thats why im really anti these PATI things
and the gov still play soft with them
........

This post has been edited by raul88: Aug 2 2008, 01:39 PM
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Gormaz
post Aug 2 2008, 02:32 PM


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As a foreigner living (legally tongue.gif ) in Malaysia, I would suggest you change the title by "Illegal Immigrates", it's quite a difference....

All immigrated are not illegal and some manage to settle down quite well in Malaysia.
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robertngo
post Aug 2 2008, 03:24 PM


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the problem with Malaysia is we are not attracting the highly skilled immigrant, MM2H program only seem to attract pensioner to spend their retirement here, the immigrant we are getting are mostly unskilled labour that are keeping the cost of factory down but also keeping the salary of other Malaysian low, how can we go up the value chain and compete with other country in high tech and service industry if we can develop and attract a high skill work force??
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technophile
post Aug 2 2008, 03:46 PM


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and summore the govt complained that locals dun wanna take jobs that the indons/banglas/myanmars are doin because the salary is so low. YES of coz! by our standard it is very low. how can we feed our family with that kinda money? these ppl can work for as low as RM1 per hour.

those immigrants (from the country i've listed there) can make do because the value of their money is low compared to us. their family is rich in their home country thanks to our high value of money.

actually what boggles me is, how can those immigrants able to buy a vehicle here? i've seen quite a lot of them riding a bike and even a car here and there. i thought you are supposed to show a lot of stuffs (passport, work permit, etc) before you can purchase that sorta things here?




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Reformist
post Aug 2 2008, 03:49 PM


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Its all Dr. M's fault. He realized that there were too many non-bumis so he had to open up Malaysia. I just pity those non-muslim bumis in Sabah though.
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Raikkonen
post Aug 2 2008, 04:15 PM


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Of course Malaysian government to blame whistling.gif
MP all 'tido'.


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raul88
post Aug 2 2008, 04:21 PM


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QUOTE(Gormaz @ Aug 2 2008, 02:32 PM)
As a foreigner living (legally  tongue.gif ) in Malaysia, I would suggest you change the title by "Illegal Immigrates", it's quite a difference....

All immigrated are not illegal and some manage to settle down quite well in Malaysia.
*
thats why i used the term PATI which is pendatang asing tanpa izin or illegal immigrants
........


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4Spirit6th
post Aug 2 2008, 04:21 PM


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QUOTE(technophile @ Aug 2 2008, 03:46 PM)
and summore the govt complained that locals dun wanna take jobs that the indons/banglas/myanmars are doin because the salary is so low. YES of coz! by our standard it is very low. how can we feed our family with that kinda money? these ppl can work for as low as RM1 per hour.

those immigrants (from the country i've listed there) can make do because the value of their money is low compared to us. their family is rich in their home country thanks to our high value of money.
*
High skill sets comes with higher pay. Majority of Indonesian labors here are from Ulu area, they need to undergo intensive training before they could start working. But still, quite alot of them are so unreliable in whatever field they serve in. The problem lies in Malaysian too, if the tauke is willing to pay a lil more to hire locals to do the work, I'm sure there's alot locals which are more skillful than the immigrant labors.

I am turned off by the scene of foreign labors are cooking my ordered food in typical chinese kopitiam, who are these people to do the cooking job? They are not of HK, Taiwan, SG origin, they are just a bunch of the same Indonesian labors which can also be found in households and construction sites. I rather cook myself than to watch these people cook my food paid with my money. Back in 4-5 years this situation was extremely rare, today it seems like a norm, here I blame those Chinese tauke for their stinginess. I don't mind to pay little more if they can have some decent cooks. IMO, the job of a cook is the most crucial in an eatery business. These stingy tauke's shops will add to my blacklist after 1st visit.

Another one, the quality of the houses built by Indonesian workers, comparing those with oversea houses, the clear winner lies within the latter. I wonder where are those skilled local workers nowadays, they deserved to be paid more than the Indonesians for their skillsets, the employers should not be too stingy in hiring more of these skillful workers.
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Zack Styler
post Aug 2 2008, 04:37 PM


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QUOTE(Reformist @ Aug 2 2008, 03:49 PM)
Its all Dr. M's fault. He realized that there were too many non-bumis so he had to open up Malaysia. I just pity those non-muslim bumis in Sabah though.
*
In Sabah the PTI issue is in a very serious situation, many have managed to gain ICs through dubious means, and the population numbers about 1.7 millions versus Sabahan which is at 1.5 millions, be warned, if this issue is not well taken care of, we are going to became another Southern Thailand or Mindanao..


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cherroy
post Aug 2 2008, 04:50 PM


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QUOTE(4Spirit6th @ Aug 2 2008, 04:21 PM)
High skill sets comes with higher pay. Majority of Indonesian labors here are from Ulu area, they need to undergo intensive training before they could start working. But still, quite alot of them are so unreliable in whatever field they serve in. The problem lies in Malaysian too, if the tauke is willing to pay a lil more to hire locals to do the work, I'm sure there's alot locals which are more skillful than the immigrant labors.

I am turned off by the scene of foreign labors are cooking my ordered food in typical chinese kopitiam, who are these people to do the cooking job? They are not of HK, Taiwan, SG origin, they are just a bunch of the same Indonesian labors which can also be found in households and construction sites. I rather cook myself than to watch these people cook my food paid with my money. Back in 4-5 years this situation was extremely rare, today it seems like a norm, here I blame those Chinese tauke for their stinginess. I don't mind to pay little more if they can have some decent cooks. IMO, the job of a cook is the most crucial in an eatery business. These stingy tauke's shops will add to my blacklist after 1st visit.

Another one, the quality of the houses built by Indonesian workers, comparing those with oversea houses, the clear winner lies within the latter. I wonder where are those skilled local workers nowadays, they deserved to be paid more than the Indonesians for their skillsets, the employers should not be too stingy in hiring more of these skillful workers.
*
Don't mean to disagree your view.

But wages is not the primary sole reason (yes, it is one of the reason but not sole) of taking legal foreign workers by employer in general. Yes there are some stingy employers intend to lower down the cost of employment by hiring foreign workers (no doubt about those stungy employer), but this is consist of certain percentage but definitely not all.

FYI, for those foreign workers that work in construction field or those project or renovatin work one, their paid is not cheap either some can get range from Rm50-100 per day as well. In this particular field, it is not employers don't want to get local worker, but it is almost near impossible to get local people to work in that field at nowadays situation. <-- can't total blame the employer in this situation.
They are definitely not cheap worker.

It is not easy to get locally skilled workforce nowadays. In job market out there, it is much easy to hire an engineering graduate than hire a high skill technician or highly skilled workers.

Nowadays you see a lot of youngster want to work in office work, 5 days work, must have air-con condition, must be easy one, must not have lot of OT etc then eventualy the supply of those kind of local workforce become less and less and almost near extint already. My company work 6 days/week, when interview time, a lot of people straight away walk away after knowing it is not a 5 days work.

Also, one of the problem is, Malaysia economy can't transform form labour intensive to highly productive or highly valued ended economy. It is the economy structure problem that lead to need to some many foreign workers.

Legal foreign workers are paying our gov every month their hard-earned money as well (Rm100 levy).

It is those illegal immigrant that poise the most problem in the social issues, most legal foreign workers are indeed well behave and obey the law and work hard for their living. It is impossible for current economy situation to not hire foreign workers (there are not enough local to fill up the vacant), but gov need to control on it. You need economy structure chance to less depended on foreign worker, without economy structure chance, then there is always need for it.
Legal foreign workers are mostly not much problem, problem most lied on those illegal immigrant.

While, Gov should stand strict on those illegal immigrant, giving chance just mean encourage more in the future. sad.gif

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robertngo
post Aug 2 2008, 05:02 PM


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we have to get foreign doctor that does not speak local language while our local doctor train in the some of the best medical school are not coming back to work, we are bleeding hundred of million on these people. Malaysia is so generous to provide doctor for developed western country.

QUOTE
Friday July 25, 2008
Government offers perks for doctors
By EMBUN MAJID

ALOR STAR: The Health Ministry spends about RM400mil a year on human development programmes which include scholarships for doctors and nurses to further their studies.

Health Minister Datuk Liow Tiong Lai said this provided doctors and nurses an opportunity to improve themselves.
Centre of attention: Kedah Sultanah Tuanku Haminah Hamidun, accompanied by Sultan Abdul Halim Mu’adzam Shah (partially hidden beside her), playing with baby Khairunisa Dayana during their visit to the Sultanah Bahiyah Hospital in Alor Star yesterday. With them is Liow (left).

“This is one of the benefits provided by the ministry for Malaysian doctors who are working in the country, and we hope this will attract Malaysian doctors working abroad to return home,” he said.

Liow said this when asked to comment on a statement by Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Mohd Johari Baharum that 236 medical graduates studying overseas under Public Service Department scholarships refused to return home to work.

Mohd Johari was quoted by a Malay newspaper yesterday as saying that the Government spent nearly RM1mil to provide overseas training for each doctor.

He said the Government had no other choice but to take legal action against graduates who refuse to return home.

Liow, met after the opening of the Sultanah Bahiyah Hospital by Kedah Sultan Abdul Halim Mu’adzam Shah here yesterday, said the ministry was working closely with the Human Resources Ministry to get medical graduates to return.

He said the two ministries had set up a one-stop centre that would have a database of Malaysians working abroad as doctors or studying medicine overseas.

“There is about 40% vacancy for doctors at hospitals in the country, and I hope medical graduates will return home to serve the people,” Liow said.

The RM552mil hospital, which was built to replace the Alor Star Hospital, began operations on July 23 last year.

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adioz88
post Aug 2 2008, 05:13 PM


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My opinion is to blame the goverment
because they as a choosen people must do something to avoid increasing of migrates
Look now, non malaysian people got increase in crime

Kita dah jadi macam burung yang ketakutan di dalam sarang sendiri
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Gormaz
post Aug 2 2008, 05:20 PM


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QUOTE(raul88 @ Aug 2 2008, 04:21 PM)
thats why i used the term PATI which is pendatang asing tanpa izin or illegal immigrants
........
*
I was more referring to the title of the topic (Immigrates in malaysia, Who we need to blame.) than to your answer which was perfectly fine, but well... nevermind the title smile.gif

Personally, even as a foreigner, I think that illegal immigrants can indeed become a big trouble if you let them. Without any visa they have to turn to illegal jobs, robbery or non-declared jobs which can be dangerous for them as well as for the people who "employ" them

This post has been edited by Gormaz: Aug 2 2008, 05:21 PM
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kumarr
post Aug 2 2008, 09:03 PM


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Its malaysia gov itself to be blamed at all cost bcoz in first place malaysia own crime they cant reduce n yet they know very well of indonesia crime level and still want recruit more ppl from indonesia to work in malaysia its like malaysia gov asking for it. Simply to say as our exPM DrM n recent PM welcome the indons n others to come here and support more crime as we not enough crime in our country.
Jus think malaysians itself many ppl jobless n pay low gov not bother bout it but want to give more job for foreigners like indon n bangla to work in malaysia totally nonsense our stupid gov mentality. If u c in border of thai anyone without passport can enter in n out with contact of the drivers there so illegal immigrants how to stoped if gov staff all lousy n lazy!!!
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vandridel
post Aug 3 2008, 11:56 AM


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QUOTE(kumarr @ Aug 2 2008, 09:03 PM)
Its malaysia gov itself to be blamed at all cost bcoz in first place malaysia own crime they cant reduce n yet they know very well of indonesia crime level and still want recruit more ppl from indonesia to work in malaysia its like malaysia gov asking for it. Simply to say as our exPM DrM n recent PM welcome the indons n others to come here and support more crime as we not enough crime in our country.
Jus think malaysians itself many ppl jobless n pay low gov not bother bout it but want to give more job for foreigners like indon n bangla to work in malaysia totally nonsense our stupid gov mentality. If u c in border of thai anyone without passport can enter in n out with contact of the drivers there so illegal immigrants how to stoped if gov staff all lousy n lazy!!!
*
we have quota for that. the PATI is much more then legal one. yes. malaysian government should take this seriously. good for RELA that catch them all. i'm getting sick of them. they should be beaten to death by RELA. the dirtiest human(PATI) in planet came to peaceful malaysia to make chaos and bring crime to us. get statistic for this. i'm sure on 1990-2000 we have less crime from PATI. the increasng number of crime starts at 2000 above. becasue at that moment. malaysia already on a new era. anyone in KL just go to KLCC. and they dressup like ........... ( fill in the blank with the worst dirtiest word that you know)

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hazairi
post Aug 3 2008, 12:03 PM


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Their volumes are accumulating. I think already reaches millions.

One day they'll organize a party and pledges for equal rights..

"Kami mahu hak sama rata!!!"

lol
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danmooncake
post Aug 3 2008, 12:27 PM


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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 3 2008, 12:03 PM)
Their volumes are accumulating. I think already reaches millions.

One day they'll organize a party and pledges for equal rights..

"Kami mahu hak sama rata!!!"

lol
*
Well, ok.. might as well give them full amnesty and citizenships ...
if it it helps to maintain BN status quo. doh.gif

Oh what the heck, just merged with Indonesia and call this new country Indo-Mal-Sia. thumbup.gif


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hazairi
post Aug 3 2008, 12:30 PM


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QUOTE(danmooncake @ Aug 3 2008, 12:27 PM)
Well, ok.. might as well give them full amnesty and citizenships ...
if it it helps to maintain BN status quo.  doh.gif

Oh what the heck, just merged with Indonesia and call this new country Indo-Mal-Sia.  thumbup.gif
*
That's a good idea..

It's always have been my vision to see Indonesia unites with Malaysia.. rclxms.gif
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danmooncake
post Aug 3 2008, 12:32 PM


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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 3 2008, 12:30 PM)
That's a good idea..

It's always have been my vision to see Indonesia unites with Malaysia..  rclxms.gif
*
What would you like to see the currency to be?

At this time, the rupiah worth like shit.. it will further downgrade the ringgit to no end.

But.. Indo has a lot more oil. We may get cheaper oil.


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PoorMan
post Aug 3 2008, 12:32 PM


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I think the keyword here is "Illegal" (Nice try though, hazairi. LOL)

As per anything illegal, then the govt should act decisively, firmly and quickly. However, it has to be done in accordance to the law. The report on RELA's acts, if substantiated, is really disturbing. Here we are blaming the illegal immigrants for various atrocities but at the same time, we are committing them ourselves.

Talk about hypocrisy. Before we criticise others, let's make sure that we clean up our own acts first.
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danmooncake
post Aug 3 2008, 12:38 PM


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QUOTE(PoorMan @ Aug 3 2008, 12:32 PM)
I think the keyword here is "Illegal" (Nice try though, hazairi. LOL)

As per anything illegal, then the govt should act decisively, firmly and quickly. However, it has to be done in accordance to the law. The report on RELA's acts, if substantiated, is really disturbing. Here we are blaming the illegal immigrants for various atrocities but at the same time, we are committing them ourselves.

Talk about hypocrisy. Before we criticise others, let's make sure that we clean up our own acts first.
*
They will continue to come as long there are jobs for them. All we have to do is to cut off those jobs and we solve the problem.

What the govt can also do is to also put in severe penalties to any employers who knowingly hire undocumented
immigrant workers. The govt seems to be blaming the illegals yet, letting the employers who openly abuse the system (wanting cheap workers) get away.


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PoorMan
post Aug 3 2008, 12:45 PM


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QUOTE(danmooncake @ Aug 3 2008, 12:38 PM)
They will continue to come as long there are jobs for them. All we have to do is to cut off those jobs and we solve the problem.
Pray tell how do we "cut off" jobs?

QUOTE(danmooncake @ Aug 3 2008, 12:38 PM)
What the govt can also do is to also put in severe penalties to any employers who knowingly hire undocumented
immigrant workers.  The govt seems to be blaming the illegals yet, letting the employers who openly abuse the system (wanting cheap workers) get away.
*
The question is how did "undocumented" happen in the first place? Lack of immigration controls, perhaps? Or corruption? Or just simply, incompetency?

Employers being business-oriented will always be looking out for ways to cut costs wherever they can. That's their livelihood. I honestly don't believe that is the angle we should be looking from for this problem.
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4Spirit6th
post Aug 3 2008, 12:50 PM


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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 3 2008, 12:30 PM)
That's a good idea..

It's always have been my vision to see Indonesia unites with Malaysia..  rclxms.gif
*
I would really wonder what will happen to Malay people in Malaysia then. Not all Indonesians are muslim to begin with, this is one problem when classifying them under the umbrella of Malay. Common perceptions among Indonesians to Malaysians aren't friendly enough IMO.

Anyway I wish to state again, we do not need that amount of foreign labors, the problem is their job kind is difficult to be replaced by local human resources. More vocational institutions should be set up to train more of the local talents of this kind. In developed countries, their citizens build their own buildings, why should Malaysia as a developing nation have to rely on external labors.
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2HK
post Aug 3 2008, 01:07 PM


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It's a pipedream like most things UMNO .

The Jew will never allow it to happen.

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danmooncake
post Aug 3 2008, 01:10 PM


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QUOTE(PoorMan @ Aug 3 2008, 12:45 PM)
Pray tell how do we "cut off" jobs?

The question is how did "undocumented" happen in the first place? Lack of immigration controls, perhaps? Or corruption? Or just simply, incompetency?

Employers being business-oriented will always be looking out for ways to cut costs wherever they can. That's their livelihood. I honestly don't believe that is the angle we should be looking from for this problem.
*
First, jobs in Malaysia are for Malaysian citizens and legal immigrants only. Govt must impose better
security checks to make sure every employer must adhere to this rule. That means, no cash payout.
Every workers must have either MyKad or legal documentation issued by the govt and verifiable.
Failure to do so will result in immediate hefty fines and raids at employer office or compound.
Govt can mandate or make better use the computerised system already in place to make sure there aren't fraud in Mykad or any employment documentation verification.

Second, better border controls esp. along the straits of Melaka. Heck, it is widely reported anybody can get a boat
ride for Rm300 from coast of Sumatra to Malaysia in less than 1 day and there is absolutely no navy patrol along the cost to stop you. This must improve.

Impose a law, no buying/selling trading rights will be given to any undocumented immigrants.

Encourage the public to report on ANY suspected undocumented immigrants immediately and for every undocumented immigrants spotted or successfully caught - rewards for lawful abiding citizen (yeah... this may seems harsh or trigger into witchhunt or humanitarian issue. you want to be successful, everybody must get involved).

Lastly.. .money buys everything (almost)..
Govt can PAY them to leave. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by danmooncake: Aug 3 2008, 01:14 PM
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Edi
post Aug 3 2008, 01:47 PM


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A friend of a relative once told me during the election period that najib rounded up a few thousand banglas in a settlement, gave them i.c and hired 1 supervisor 2 monitor them. These banglas were to cast votes for his pekan constituency. I was reserved when i heard about this.

Recently i heard a felda settler complained that feldas are swarmed by bangla workers, brought in by najib's friend rahim 'blackeye' noor who i think is the pengerusi of felda. He first involvement in felda is with projek supply kambing to beginners to the business. My friend & i did the calculations & found - surprise!, projek tu menguntungkan dia & kroni shj.

Back to the bangla story.. rahim noor & friends are actually in the business of importing foreign immigrants. The give candies n sweets to felda settlers 2 keep them quiet. Settler's kids don't work, jadi mandur je. Lazing around, creating social problems eg. dadah etc.

Then suddenly it all clicked. About those banglas, about why it seemed so hard for the gov to resolve immigrant problems. Sebab someone on top didn't want it settled! Ini satu kes shj.

What is happening? Also, tak cukup ke that they get millions from who knows how many projects that they still want to squeeze every last drop of blood from the rakyat??? mad.gif
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raul88
post Aug 3 2008, 05:01 PM


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QUOTE(Edi @ Aug 3 2008, 01:47 PM)
A friend of a relative once told me during the election period that najib rounded up a few thousand banglas in a settlement, gave them i.c and hired 1 supervisor 2 monitor them. These banglas were to cast votes for his pekan constituency. I was reserved when i heard about this.

Recently i heard a felda settler complained that feldas are swarmed by bangla workers, brought in by najib's friend rahim 'blackeye' noor who i think is the pengerusi of felda. He first involvement in felda is with projek supply kambing to beginners to the business. My friend & i did the calculations & found - surprise!, projek tu menguntungkan dia & kroni shj.

Back to the bangla story.. rahim noor & friends are actually in the business of importing foreign immigrants. The give candies n sweets to felda settlers 2 keep them quiet. Settler's kids don't work, jadi mandur je. Lazing around, creating social problems eg. dadah etc.

Then suddenly it all clicked. About those banglas, about why it seemed so hard for the gov to resolve immigrant problems. Sebab someone on top didn't want it settled! Ini satu kes shj.

What is happening? Also, tak cukup ke that they get millions from who knows how many projects that they still want to squeeze every last drop of blood from the rakyat??? mad.gif
*
if this is true...
damn......
some people are willing to do anything to get what they want
shit


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dattebayo
post Aug 3 2008, 07:31 PM


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This is not the first time the immigrants are used to alter the poll results, see Project IC aka Mahathir Project

QUOTE
Project IC is the name used in Malaysia to describe the allegation of systematic granting of citizenship to immigrants (whether illegal or legal immigrants) by giving them identity documents known as IC (identity card), and subsequently, MyKad. The alleged practice is centered in the state of Sabah in East Malaysia. The term is used mainly by the media as well as other political commentators and the general public. Another term used is Project M,[1] where "M" stood for Mahathir Mohamad, the former prime minister of Malaysia due to his being allegedly involved in the spearheading of this project.[2][3] The alleged object of Project IC is to alter the demographic pattern of Sabah to make it more favorable to the ruling government and certain political parties, especially with regards to changing the electoral voting patterns.

The project, in its widespread and intensive form, is suspected to have begun in the early 1990s after the entry of United Malays National Organisation (UMNO) into Sabah politics. However, there were also allegations of mass immigration and naturalization of migrants in the 1970s under the United Sabah National Organization (USNO) government, and in the early 1980s under BERJAYA government.[4] On a nationwide scale, illegal immigration is a major social issue. The problem is linked with alleged phantom voters also seen in other parts of Malaysia during elections.


...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_IC
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raul88
post Aug 3 2008, 07:40 PM


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......
all political reason
i think this is the 'pengundi hantu' thing
but when the opposition bring this up
the gov say its a lie...
whos lying now?



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kumarr
post Aug 4 2008, 01:39 AM


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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 3 2008, 12:03 PM)
Their volumes are accumulating. I think already reaches millions.

One day they'll organize a party and pledges for equal rights..

"Kami mahu hak sama rata!!!"

lol
*
Now some re getting Pr status ready wat in malaysia so wat will happen in future wil be anythin
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technophile
post Aug 4 2008, 10:04 AM


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QUOTE(Edi @ Aug 3 2008, 01:47 PM)
A friend of a relative once told me during the election period that najib rounded up a few thousand banglas in a settlement, gave them i.c and hired 1 supervisor 2 monitor them. These banglas were to cast votes for his pekan constituency. I was reserved when i heard about this.

Recently i heard a felda settler complained that feldas are swarmed by bangla workers, brought in by najib's friend rahim 'blackeye' noor who i think is the pengerusi of felda. He first involvement in felda is with projek supply kambing to beginners to the business. My friend & i did the calculations & found - surprise!, projek tu menguntungkan dia & kroni shj.

Back to the bangla story.. rahim noor & friends are actually in the business of importing foreign immigrants. The give candies n sweets to felda settlers 2 keep them quiet. Settler's kids don't work, jadi mandur je. Lazing around, creating social problems eg. dadah etc.

Then suddenly it all clicked. About those banglas, about why it seemed so hard for the gov to resolve immigrant problems. Sebab someone on top didn't want it settled! Ini satu kes shj.

What is happening? Also, tak cukup ke that they get millions from who knows how many projects that they still want to squeeze every last drop of blood from the rakyat??? mad.gif
*
this is very true.

i heard somewhere that you can actually bring them down as workers "legally"

all you need to do is to deal with the minister in charge of the immigration. he will state his demand (like 200 per head) and you will have to pay him that. then he will sign a "release form".

with that form, you are free to bring them here according to how much you paid to him.

it applies to indons mostly. as banglas are banned from getting work nowadays (newcomers, that is).

yes it is saddening that the politicians are willing to flood and infest our soils with these kinda ppl just to make a quick buck.

nowadays, i have a mindset that anyone under BN will always have side incomes from their designation. (just like the AP queen Rafidah Aziz, and a whole lot of ministers)
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Cho_Hakkai
post Aug 4 2008, 11:52 AM


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QUOTE
Immigration is Not the Problem; Poor Governance is

Written by johnleemk on 12:36:16 pm Jul 28, 2008.
Categories: Malaysian Government, Malaysian Society

At the National Summit on Urban Poor & Low-Income Groups a few weeks back, I sat and watched participant after participant stand up to denounce the presence of foreigners in Malaysia. Although Malaysians differ in how vehemently they oppose the presence of foreign nationals here, it seems clear that for a lot of people, foreigners are at best a necessary evil, not something to be welcomed. This is wrong — immigration does not pose a threat as long as it is in keeping with the law, and as long as the law itself is just. If people want to live and work here, if they want to be part of our country, who are we to stop them as long as they follow our laws?

I remember my first brush with xenophobia as a primary schoolkid — in those days it was common to tease people for being Bengalis or some other perceived low-class foreigner. I do not know if this is still common or if our children have moved on to other race-based insults, but I have never understood the point of calling someone out on their race.

Of course, those xenophobic sentiments of my childhood are still out there, writ large on our society and politics. Although we rely on Indonesians to do the jobs few Malaysians want, we have a habit of blaming them for our social ills and, well, for simply being here. Unlike in other countries, where occasionally you might hear a coherent (though almost always still unreasonable) argument against immigration, here we seem to think it is enough to just mention the "problem" of immigration, and everyone will understand how it is a prima facie evil.

Practically all arguments against immigration can be rebutted simply: why would you reject someone who wants to work in your country, contribute to your economy, buy your products, do the work you will not do? As long as the person does not break the law, as long as he or she does not cause trouble, why would you want him or her to leave?

Most semi-reasonable arguments immigration thus focus on this point: that immigration is indeed a major cause of social problems and social ills. In other countries, this is probably a big issue — the Mexican and Anglo-Saxon cultures do not blend well, what more the Swedish and Persian ones! But most immigration into Malaysia is from other Southeast Asian countries, rendering the cultural issue often a relatively moot point.

Of course there are always costs associated with absorbing more people into a country, but why not cover the costs with a tax? Charge immigrants a one-time tax based on how much we think cultural friction, legal matters, etc. cost us; we won't be able to set a real price on them, but it's better than either totally open or closed borders.

It is likewise true that immigrants will use our public services here, at the expense of the taxpayer; but in that case, why not levy taxes on them? All other countries tax their legal immigrants, why not us? If we do not tax our immigrants, why are we so stupid? If we do tax them, why deny them access to the services they pay for as taxpayers? Why rail against racial discrimination when we still want to discriminate on the basis of nationality? If I am unlucky enough to be born elsewhere, should I not have the right to pay taxes to live in a country I like, and in return get the services I pay for?

We love to blame immigrants for the commission of crime; Indonesians in particular are a convenient target for public outrage. The Inspector-General of Police last year stated that foreigners commit 2% of all crimes. Sound big? But foreigners comprise 10% of the country's overall population — 2.7 million out of 27 million — so if anything, they are five times less likely to commit a crime than their proportion of the population would suggest! If we really want to cut down crime, maybe we should place all Malaysian citizens under house arrest — that is after all what one Minister proposed we do to most foreign workers last year.

The real controversial issue, and the only one that I would say is justifiably so, is the fact that many people appear to immigrate illegally but after the fact soon legitimise their residence in Malaysia with the authorities; many, in particular Indonesians, have their applications for citizenship come through before the spouses of Malaysians even have their permanent residency application acknowledged! As I wrote before, I do not begrudge these people the right to seek greener pastures, as long as they comply with the law; I do not mind that the law grants them the right to stay here. What I mind is the the authorities actually prioritising illegals over Malaysian families who have been waiting years in vain for their non-Malaysian relatives' applications to even be heard.

Please, let's not blame immigrants; they are no worse than our ancestors, who migrated here from Sumatera, or China, or India, or a place lost to the fog of history. The point is, nobody should be discriminated against for having the bad luck of being born in another country — everyone should have the right to work here and live here, provided they bear the costs their presence imposes.

Unfortunately, politicians, regardless of which side of the political divide they fall on, love to scapegoat immigrants for our problems. Politicians blame them for high crime rates. Blame them for crimes they have not even committed. Blame them for using services they do not even pay for. Ultimately, politicians advance counterproductive and inhumane measures such as locking up foreigners in their homes and workplaces, and what for?

If the costs immigrants impose are not borne by them — costs I think are relatively low considering their crime rate and their cultural similarities with us — the fault is not theirs, but the government, for failing to properly run its immigration system, and for failing to properly implement an efficient system of taxation. Let's not fault people who want to be here, who want to work for us, who want to enjoy all our great country has to offer; let's fault those Malaysians who refuse to properly enforce our laws and who refuse to treat all people fairly, Malaysian or not.[


http://www.infernalramblings.com/articles/...Government/764/

An Article by johnleemk.
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CYBERJUDGE
post Aug 7 2008, 12:41 PM


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The biggest problem with this illegal immigrants is that they brought over thier lifestyle and culture here ... Just that day , I was queing up to pay some barang in a Kedai runcit , out of no where this Bangla potong queue.. the guy infront of me just gave the Bangla a piece of his mind ... If it was me, bagi present bebentuk buku lima aje... Muka selamba aje ...

The problem with M'sian business especially construction, prefer to employ this indon because its cheaper... They have no proper skill or training ... Just look at the end finishing quality of the new houses these days.... These businesses only want more untung saja ..

They bring in diseases such as denggi and others that is already extinct in M'sia ...

Suck big time ...

This post has been edited by CYBERJUDGE: Aug 7 2008, 12:44 PM
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fyire
post Aug 7 2008, 02:26 PM


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QUOTE(CYBERJUDGE @ Aug 7 2008, 12:41 PM)
The biggest problem with this illegal immigrants is that they brought over thier lifestyle and culture here ... Just that day , I was queing up to pay some barang in a Kedai runcit , out of no where this Bangla potong queue.. the guy infront of me just gave the Bangla a piece of his mind ... If it was me, bagi present bebentuk buku lima aje... Muka selamba aje ...

The problem with M'sian business especially construction, prefer to employ this indon because its cheaper... They have no proper skill or training ... Just look at the end finishing quality of the new houses these days.... These businesses only want more untung saja .. 

They bring in diseases such as denggi and others that is already extinct in M'sia ...

Suck big time ...
*
I'll agree with you in regards to the problems to do with low skilled labour being brought in, but in regards to the Bangladeshi, are such actions that you criticize here really a Bangladeshi culture to act in such a manner, or is it merely that person being rude and uncouth?

And btw. Dengue fever is mainly spread by mosquitoes, and not human carriers.
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uNeVErwaLkaloNe
post Aug 7 2008, 02:53 PM


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QUOTE(CYBERJUDGE @ Aug 7 2008, 12:41 PM)
The biggest problem with this illegal immigrants is that they brought over thier lifestyle and culture here ... Just that day , I was queing up to pay some barang in a Kedai runcit , out of no where this Bangla potong queue.. the guy infront of me just gave the Bangla a piece of his mind ... If it was me, bagi present bebentuk buku lima aje... Muka selamba aje ...

The problem with M'sian business especially construction, prefer to employ this indon because its cheaper... They have no proper skill or training ... Just look at the end finishing quality of the new houses these days.... These businesses only want more untung saja .. 

They bring in diseases such as denggi and others that is already extinct in M'sia ...

Suck big time ...
*
it wasnt just constructions, nowadays most shop/restaurant/mamak begin to hire foreigner too, soon even those fast food will hire foreigner as well. i hate the fact when i patron these places, it was foreigner who cook and serve the food to us, not local. and the food sucks btw
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Cho_Hakkai
post Aug 7 2008, 08:48 PM


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The problem here is that whether the local people are willing to work full-time (not part-time) in the construction, mamak, restaurant (waiter/waitress) or maid.

Most of the time, I see local people working part-time in that industry.
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bgeh
post Aug 7 2008, 09:22 PM


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QUOTE(technophile @ Aug 4 2008, 10:04 AM)
this is very true.

i heard somewhere that you can actually bring them down as workers "legally"

all you need to do is to deal with the minister in charge of the immigration. he will state his demand (like 200 per head) and you will have to pay him that. then he will sign a "release form".

with that form, you are free to bring them here according to how much you paid to him.

it applies to indons mostly. as banglas are banned from getting work nowadays (newcomers, that is).

yes it is saddening that the politicians are willing to flood and infest our soils with these kinda ppl just to make a quick buck.

nowadays, i have a mindset that anyone under BN will always have side incomes from their designation. (just like the AP queen Rafidah Aziz, and a whole lot of ministers)
*

'These kind of people'? Hmm, let's see what are they, humans? Aren't you human too? Hmm, let's consider their motives for coming to Malaysia, which would probably be to improve their quality of life and their family. Isn't that what we are all after? Why are you condemning them for doing what many Malaysians themselves have done, going overseas in search of a better life? Well, unless you think their primary motive for coming to Malaysia is to rob poor Malaysians, steal from them, rape their women and blah.


QUOTE(CYBERJUDGE @ Aug 7 2008, 12:41 PM)
The biggest problem with this illegal immigrants is that they brought over thier lifestyle and culture here ... Just that day , I was queing up to pay some barang in a Kedai runcit , out of no where this Bangla potong queue.. the guy infront of me just gave the Bangla a piece of his mind ... If it was me, bagi present bebentuk buku lima aje... Muka selamba aje ...

The problem with M'sian business especially construction, prefer to employ this indon because its cheaper... They have no proper skill or training ... Just look at the end finishing quality of the new houses these days.... These businesses only want more untung saja .. 

They bring in diseases such as denggi and others that is already extinct in M'sia ...

Suck big time ...
*

And the same thing could be said in the mid-late 1800s and early 1900s when the British brought in Chinese and Indian labourers. Guess what happened? We made Malaysia, a multicultural country. So what's exactly wrong with other people coming here and bringing in their culture again? But hey, of course they're going to have to try to fit themselves, being immigrants to a foreign country, to our own cultural norms. That however, does not mean that your generalisation is in any way correct either. Besides, I've seen plenty of examples of Malaysians who have cut queues. There, another anecdote to combat your anecdote smile.gif

As for the dengue remark...darn! It was the immigrants that made my aunt fall down with dengue fever! Nope, not those mosquitoes, but those immigrants!

QUOTE(uNeVErwaLkaloNe @ Aug 7 2008, 02:53 PM)
it wasnt just constructions, nowadays most shop/restaurant/mamak begin to hire foreigner too, soon even those fast food will hire foreigner as well. i hate the fact when i patron these places, it was foreigner who cook and serve the food to us, not local. and the food sucks btw
*
Are you implying that foreigners can't cook as well as Malaysians? Because I can certainly say that, being a Malaysian myself, my cooking ain't that great either.
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anggana
post Aug 7 2008, 09:43 PM


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QUOTE(technophile @ Aug 2 2008, 03:46 PM)
and summore the govt complained that locals dun wanna take jobs that the indons/banglas/myanmars are doin because the salary is so low. YES of coz! by our standard it is very low. how can we feed our family with that kinda money? these ppl can work for as low as RM1 per hour.

those immigrants (from the country i've listed there) can make do because the value of their money is low compared to us. their family is rich in their home country thanks to our high value of money.

actually what boggles me is, how can those immigrants able to buy a vehicle here? i've seen quite a lot of them riding a bike and even a car here and there. i thought you are supposed to show a lot of stuffs (passport, work permit, etc) before you can purchase that sorta things here?
*
Because not all of those immigrant do the 'dirty' work. I know many Indonesian that is actually working in Petronas or Shell and earn 10-20 K monthly, and that is not a strange thing since they are highly skilled. Actually you are underestimating those country a lot, no one wants to be payed 1 RM/hour, even house maid are paid at least 300 RM.

There are no illegal immigrant that actually can buy a car since they will require your passport and work permit, so perhaps the person that you saw is not illegal immigrant but legal.

Sometimes you dont have to show off to show that you had a lot of money in your pocket nod.gif , one may look dirty and ugly, but who knows....


Added on August 7, 2008, 9:52 pm
QUOTE(wolfverine81 @ Aug 2 2008, 01:25 PM)
from what that i`ve heard and see,
many immigrant that i see either a thief,
a criminal,
or someone who think this is their country,
Hero kG Dusun,
many dont come here to work,
just wan easy money or running from Indonesia police,
thats why they are here,
my grandfather home been rob by 3 Indon,
my home 1 time,
if i`m there when the tragedy happen,
i would cut of their hand,
then they would post a letter to Indon Pm,
said that Malaysian people will cut of immigrant hand if they get caught,
heheheheheh  icon_idea.gif  icon_idea.gif  icon_idea.gif
but really,
if i caught an immigrant or any Malaysian robbing Malaysian house,
i`ll cut of their hand,
don wan go to work,
jus wan take forcefully from others.
*
yeah, you got that right, many of them are criminals coz they dont know what to do for living BUT Not all. It will be unwised to generalize them as all criminals since some of them are not. Many of the Indonesian Immigrant is actually comming from Kampung, with low education level. They came to Malaysia under false promisse or kena tipu after paying an amount of money. They ends up become an 'illegal', a situation which I think they also did not expect.

How RELA handle the PATI also looks very harsh, they act as if they were bosses, and this is obviously really bad for Malaysian image. The fact that some of them are also Raping is really unacceptable. They are no different with Indon person that robbed your house, no difference I should say, no difference...

Once a criminals remain a criminals, doesnt matter whether you are from Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, bangladesh, UK or any nation, you are still criminals.

You cant mixed the good with the bad nod.gif

This post has been edited by anggana: Aug 7 2008, 09:52 PM
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CYBERJUDGE
post Aug 7 2008, 11:05 PM


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[QUOTE][quote=bgeh,Aug 7 2008, 09:22 PM]
And the same thing could be said in the mid-late 1800s and early 1900s when the British brought in Chinese and Indian labourers. Guess what happened? We made Malaysia, a multicultural country. So what's exactly wrong with other people coming here and bringing in their culture again? But hey, of course they're going to have to try to fit themselves, being immigrants to a foreign country, to our own cultural norms. That however, does not mean that your generalisation is in any way correct either. Besides, I've seen plenty of examples of Malaysians who have cut queues. There, another anecdote to combat your anecdote smile.gif[/QUOTE]

the situation and reason are different now compared then .. Our money is been funnel out and it is not good for our current economy... And further more , we are talking about [/B]illegal immigrant... I hope you understand the word.. When it comes to immigration, the politicians need to realize illegals are not immigrants...

[QUOTE]As for the dengue remark...darn! It was the immigrants that made my aunt fall down with dengue fever! Nope, not those mosquitoes, but those immigrants![/QUOTE]

Please learn up on Epidemiology and Transmission of the disease ...



Post edited by Moderator to delete irrelevant words.


This post has been edited by MayAnne: Aug 8 2008, 09:09 AM
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nexous
post Aug 8 2008, 02:13 AM


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QUOTE("CYBERJUDGE")
the situation and reason are different now compared then .. Our money is been funnel out and it is not good for our current economy... And further more , we are talking about [/B]illegal immigrant... I hope you understand the word.. When it comes to immigration, the politicians need to realize illegals are not immigrants...



Thinking about it, DrM after all did a lot of harm to this nation! He fed us with all this views. "Have to keep money IN". "Have to feed Proton to keep money IN". Have to feed Perwaja Steel to keep money IN". "Keep uncompetitive local industries because we have to keep money IN!". "Protectionsim FTW!".

I tell you what foreigners are doing now that locals hate them for: they depress wages for Malaysians by expanding the labor supply. Citizens everywhere in the world do not like foreigners namely for this. Migration of foreigners to the USA is unpopular among Americans because of this. But perhaps you and your puny piece of knowledge do not know of all this.

But do you know what good did the Cina and India did for this nation when they migrated here? The expanded labor forces kept economic output high at cheap prices. Likewise, illegals working in construction sites make building costs cheap, therefore less costs passed onto the consumer. Illegals working in manufacturing are paid dirt cheap; these exploited workers keep costs of production low, easing the pressure on prices. We pay less when firms have lower overheads.

You don't even know that a lot of illegals don't bring money home. They are like Malaysians who went to the USA to study and stayed illegally to work. They don't send a single cent home. The states is their new home.

Let me give you a final tip.
READ: Wealth does not equal currency. Currency transfers wealth BUT does not create it. Wealth is created through work. When you work in a factory and make a computer chip, economic output (aka wealth) is created. When the government taxes you, there is no economic output eventhough there is a transfer of wealth. There is a difference between a creation of wealth and a transfer of wealth. Do you know what is the measure of economic prosperity? Do you know why? Do you know what indicators are used in GDP measurements? No?

So when foreigners work here and send the money home, do we lose? Nope. We got their output, they get a piece of that. Because of the nature of businesses reaping more output from workers than salaries, even if they send all their money home, we still gain. Plus there's no way they'll send it all back. Plus money sent back is money that cannot be spent locally in Malaysia, that's 1 notch less inflationary pressure.

Do you know what feeds inflation?

When you give a random person RM10, the economy does not benefit. The RM10 can circulate for free among 1000000 people, the economy does not benefit. The economy benefits when a worker works to produce something for RM10 BUT it ALSO benefits if the worker was to do it for free!

Do you understand? No? I tell you what happens when RM10 keeps changing hands between buyers and sellers = inflation. From DrM's 20 years of rule, a bowl of noodle went from 50 cents to RM4. The value of the Ringgit depreciated to other currencies because it is just so loosing its value, and it was loosing it faster than all the other currencies!


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CYBERJUDGE
post Aug 8 2008, 03:06 AM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 02:13 AM)
Thinking about it, DrM after all did a lot of harm to this nation! He fed us with all this views. "Have to keep money IN". "Have to feed Proton to keep money IN". Have to feed Perwaja Steel to keep money IN". "Keep uncompetitive local industries because we have to keep money IN!". "Protectionsim FTW!".

I tell you what foreigners are doing now that locals hate them for: they depress wages for Malaysians by expanding the labor supply. Citizens everywhere in the world do not like foreigners namely for this. Migration of foreigners to the USA is unpopular among Americans because of this. But perhaps you and your puny piece of knowledge do not know of all this.

But do you know what good did the Cina and India did for this nation when they migrated here? The expanded labor forces kept economic output high at cheap prices. Likewise, illegals working in construction sites make building costs cheap, therefore less costs passed onto the consumer. Illegals working in manufacturing are paid dirt cheap; these exploited workers keep costs of production low, easing the pressure on prices. We pay less when firms have lower overheads.

You don't even know that a lot of illegals don't bring money home. They are like Malaysians who went to the USA to study and stayed illegally to work. They don't send a single cent home. The states is their new home.

Let me give you a final tip.
READ: Wealth does not equal currency. Currency transfers wealth BUT does not create it. Wealth is created through work. When you work in a factory and make a computer chip, economic output (aka wealth) is created. When the government taxes you, there is no economic output eventhough there is a transfer of wealth. There is a difference between a creation of wealth and a transfer of wealth. Do you know what is the measure of economic prosperity? Do you know why? Do you know what indicators are used in GDP measurements? No?

So when foreigners work here and send the money home, do we lose? Nope. We got their output, they get a piece of that. Because of the nature of businesses reaping more output from workers than salaries, even if they send all their money home, we still gain. Plus there's no way they'll send it all back. Plus money sent back is money that cannot be spent locally in Malaysia, that's 1 notch less inflationary pressure.

Do you know what feeds inflation?

When you give a random person RM10, the economy does not benefit. The RM10 can circulate for free among 1000000 people, the economy does not benefit. The economy benefits when a worker works to produce something for RM10 BUT it ALSO benefits if the worker was to do it for free!

Do you understand? No? I tell you what happens when RM10 keeps changing hands between buyers and sellers = inflation. From DrM's 20 years of rule, a bowl of noodle went from 50 cents to RM4. The value of the Ringgit depreciated to other currencies because it is just so loosing its value, and it was loosing it faster than all the other currencies!
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States#Economic
Sending wages back
In 2003, then-President of Mexico, Vicente Fox stated that remittances "are our biggest source of foreign income, bigger than oil, tourism or foreign investment" and that "the money transfers grew after Mexican consulates started giving identity cards to their citizens in the United States." He stated that money sent from Mexican workers in the United States to their families back home reached a record $12 billion.[76]. Two years later, in 2005, the World Bank stated that Mexico was receiving $18.1 billion in remittances and that it ranked third (behind only India and China) among the countries receiving the greatest amount of remittances.[77]

this I got from a 10yrs paper clip ...
http://161.139.39.251/akhbar/emigration/1997/bh979022.htm

Another one I came across....

Linking inflation and immigration
February 21, 2008 - 8:08am.

By BONNIE ERBE

The two "i" words are back in the news, one more prominently than the other. The more prominent is "inflation." The less prominent at the moment is "immigration" (of the illegal variety). The two issues are more closely tied than one would think. None of the three remaining major-party candidates for president has a realistic plan to resolve immigration's contribution to the problem.

Inflation moved from minor concern to major concern this week for the Federal Reserve Board. Chairman Ben Bernanke has aggressively cut interest rates by 2.25 percent since September to try to prevent an economic implosion. But he has to balance recession concerns against the possibility that deep interest-rate cuts might also pump up inflation, as the January report on consumer prices showed a surprisingly steep rate of 0.4 percent. Wall Street fears deep cuts in interest rates might serve to trigger inflation while simultaneously failing to spur growth. Then Americans could end up hearing a revival of a word we haven't heard in a few decades: stagflation.

How are illegal immigration and inflation tied together? In 2005, Bear, Stearns Senior Managing Director Robert Justich and a team of his economists issued a study on the impact of illegal immigration on U.S. economic indicators. They found that undocumented immigrants account for some 8 percent of American workers, a much higher figure than the government reports. Justich's report explained that the number of people counted in productivity calculations is artificially boosted when there are more people working than are reported to the government. American productivity is based on the amount our economy produces divided by the number of people working. If there are a lot more people working than the government takes into account, this makes productivity look artificially high. It can also help to conceal underlying inflation.

My personal belief is that inflation is and has been a lot higher than the government has been reporting, and undocumented workers play a large part in concealing the true inflation rate.

How would presidential candidates Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton and John McCain deal with illegal immigration? In remarkably similar fashion and, at the same time, ineptly. All three want some form of increased border control and a "path to citizenship" (to wit, amnesty) for everyone already here illegally. Their plans sound alarmingly close to the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act, which failed miserably in preventing two decades of increased illegal immigration. And so will amnesty in this decade.

The Associated Press reported on Tuesday that Obama was in San Antonio saying immigration should not be used as a "political football" and that he supports "border security ... combined with a pathway to citizenship for people who are already in the U.S."

Isn't that a political football in and of itself, designed to appeal to open-borders voters? Of course it is.

Just as Obama has succeeded in taking race out of the equation in his presidential campaign, whoever becomes president will need to take race out of the immigration equation in order to resolve this festering issue. As the proud granddaughter of a Cuban immigrant, I support a serious crackdown on illegal immigration coupled with a U.S. effort to spur economic growth in countries whence immigrants flee, so they can find decent jobs in their homelands. That is what they truly want and need. If we don't stop purposefully luring illegal immigrants into the United States (by offering them wages they can't make at home and benefits they'd never receive from their own governments) the quality of life for today's immigrants, their children and grandchildren will continue to deteriorate.

Any realist recognizes the "political football" crowd will win, our borders will not be secured anytime soon and the United States will not make a serious effort to help undeveloped nations bolster their own economies. But without finding a workable solution to the "immigration" issue, we must also assume the "inflation" issue will dog us for some time to come.

(Bonnie Erbe is a TV host and columnist. E-mail bonnieerbe(at)CompuServe.com.)



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nexous
post Aug 8 2008, 03:05 PM


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QUOTE("CYBERJUDGE")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immig...States#Economic
Sending wages back
In 2003, then-President of Mexico, Vicente Fox stated that remittances "are our biggest source of foreign income, bigger than oil, tourism or foreign investment" and that "the money transfers grew after Mexican consulates started giving identity cards to their citizens in the United States." He stated that money sent from Mexican workers in the United States to their families back home reached a record $12 billion.[76]. Two years later, in 2005, the World Bank stated that Mexico was receiving $18.1 billion in remittances and that it ranked third (behind only India and China) among the countries receiving the greatest amount of remittances.[77]
What do you not understand with my previous post? Let me quote myself:

QUOTE("nexous")
So when foreigners work here and send the money home, do we lose? Nope. We got their output, they get a piece of that. Because of the nature of businesses reaping more output from workers than salaries, even if they send all their money home, we still gain. Plus there's no way they'll send it all back. Plus money sent back is money that cannot be spent locally in Malaysia, that's 1 notch less inflationary pressure.
1) Workers gaining does not imply firms loosing. Economics is not zero-sum. Trade benefits both sides, albeit firms in this case benefit more.

If a worker generates an additional 5k worth of productivity for the firm, there's NO way that worker will be paid 5k. The reason of the hire in the first place was to profit, total productivity must have a higher value than salaries paid, else it is a failed business.

But wait a minute! Do the workers gain? Do you gain when you work? LOL. You would have thought that the average adult realizes this, but no, they mostly believe that in an economic transaction, there's a winner and a loser. They are wrong. Trade benefits both sides. The person parting with his money is not the loser. Workers gain from pay. Firms gain from their work. Who gains more economically speaking? The firms when it comes to worker-firm transactions. Look at the preceding paragraph.


When foreign firms open offices and factories here, and hire locals, do they not send all their profits to their shareholders back home? Then why do we want them here? Simple, their investment creates economic output. GDP is a measure of economic output and the developed nations lead the world in GDP per capita. Which brings us to the next point:


2) Output/work creates wealth/prosperity.

The value of fiat currency (the Ringgit and the USD) is dependent on its buying power. If it can buy a lot, it has a high value and vice versa.

Extreme examples illustrate this well: In an economy that produces only 1 car, that car would definitely be sold at very high prices. In an economy that produces many cars, that car would be sold cheaper. The analysis of wealth is simple. Although in the former example very large sums of currency is used in the transaction, the net wealth created is equal to 1 car (only 1 dude has a car to drive). The latter's net wealth is equal to many cars. People living in the 'many cars' economy are better off than their counterparts, even if less money is involved.

What's the point? Money has no value by itself. It's valuable because it is exchangeable for real products. When an economy has low output (few products) and lots of money, you have hyperinflation.

The lesson learnt here is that the wealth of an economy is reliant on output, rather than the flow of money. When an illegal worker works here, they create output, increasing the value of money, and promoting economic prosperity. The salary slip (currency) transfers a compensation to the worker for his work. That compensation, is always lower than the value of output the worker has produced.


3) The prosperity of an economy is not co-related to how much currency it can keep, but how much income (output) it produces.

The idea that an economy is richer if it has more money/gold and that trade is zero-sum is called mercantilism. It is a dead school of thought. Google it.

QUOTE
Quoted from Wikipedia, edited to simplify
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

As gold flowed into one country, the supply would of gold would increase and the value of gold in that state would steadily decline relative to other goods (similar to printing more money; inflation). Conversely, in the state exporting gold, its value would slowly rise (similar to burning money; deflation). Mercantilists fundamentally misunderstood this, long arguing that an increase in the the amount of gold hoarded simply meant that everyone gets richer.
Just if you don't know, an economy is prosperous not because it has a lot of money, but because it has high output (income).

Malaysia happened to have higher foreign reserves than many other first world nations, aka we have more money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...change_reserves
Are we a rich economy?


4) Currencies sent overseas will have to returned if they are to be used, else they're wasted

If foreigners brought home our Ringgit, they can't do anything about it except exchange it in a bank. The bank will accumulate Ringgit, there's nothing they can do about it except (1) trade it with other banks (restarting the cycle) and (2) buy assets and equity in Malaysia. If they do #2, capital is returned here. If they keep trading it and keep it away from the local markets, monetary inflation is reduced by 1 notch.

This rarely happen of course. The Ringgit's trading band is very narrow and foreigners will exchange the Ringgit before they leave Malaysia. Supply of Ringgit goes up, supply of other currencies go down. Is this a bad thing? If you're a collector of Rupiah, yes. Otherwise, nope; Rupiah cannot be used as capital here - they must be exchanged to Ringgit.


Read the bold red text.
Besides pointless copy pasting, do some commentary and conclusions.
Or you meant you can't do that?
Or you don't understand the crux of the article you copy pasted?

QUOTE("CYBERJUDGE")
Linking inflation and immigration
February 21, 2008 - 8:08am.

By BONNIE ERBE

The two "i" words are back in the news, one more prominently than the other. The more prominent is "inflation." The less prominent at the moment is "immigration" (of the illegal variety). The two issues are more closely tied than one would think. None of the three remaining major-party candidates for president has a realistic plan to resolve immigration's contribution to the problem.

Inflation moved from minor concern to major concern this week for the Federal Reserve Board. Chairman Ben Bernanke has aggressively cut interest rates by 2.25 percent since September to try to prevent an economic implosion. But he has to balance recession concerns against the possibility that deep interest-rate cuts might also pump up inflation, as the January report on consumer prices showed a surprisingly steep rate of 0.4 percent. Wall Street fears deep cuts in interest rates might serve to trigger inflation while simultaneously failing to spur growth. Then Americans could end up hearing a revival of a word we haven't heard in a few decades: stagflation.

How are illegal immigration and inflation tied together? In 2005, Bear, Stearns Senior Managing Director Robert Justich and a team of his economists issued a study on the impact of illegal immigration on U.S. economic indicators. They found that undocumented immigrants account for some 8 percent of American workers, a much higher figure than the government reports. Justich's report explained that the number of people counted in productivity calculations is artificially boosted when there are more people working than are reported to the government. American productivity is based on the amount our economy produces divided by the number of people working. If there are a lot more people working than the government takes into account, this makes productivity look artificially high. It can also help to conceal underlying inflation.

My personal belief is that inflation is and has been a lot higher than the government has been reporting, and undocumented workers play a large part in concealing the true inflation rate.
How do they do that?
Their salaries are dirt cheap. Firms can therefore absorb inflation by paying lower salaries.

This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 8 2008, 07:58 PM
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post Aug 8 2008, 03:11 PM


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Added on August 8, 2008, 3:18 pm
QUOTE(anggana @ Aug 7 2008, 09:43 PM)
Because not all of those immigrant do the 'dirty' work. I know many Indonesian that is actually working in Petronas or Shell and earn 10-20 K monthly, and that is not a strange thing since they are highly skilled. Actually you are underestimating those country a lot, no one wants to be payed 1 RM/hour, even house maid are paid at least 300 RM.

There are no illegal immigrant that actually can buy a car since they will require your passport and work permit, so perhaps the person that you saw is not illegal immigrant but legal.


Sometimes you dont have to show off to show that you had a lot of money in your pocket  nod.gif , one may look dirty and ugly, but who knows....


Added on August 7, 2008, 9:52 pm

yeah, you got that right, many of them are criminals coz they dont know what to do for living BUT Not all. It will be unwised to generalize them as all criminals since some of them are not. Many of the Indonesian Immigrant is actually comming from Kampung, with low education level. They came to Malaysia under false promisse or kena tipu after paying an amount of money. They ends up become an 'illegal', a situation which I think they also did not expect.

How RELA handle the PATI also looks very harsh, they act as if they were bosses, and this is obviously really bad for Malaysian image. The fact that some of them are also Raping is really unacceptable. They are no different with Indon person that robbed your house, no difference I should say, no difference...

Once a criminals remain a criminals, doesnt matter whether you are from Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, bangladesh, UK or any nation, you are still criminals.

You cant mixed the good with the bad nod.gif
*
I'm not underestimating them. I know a lot of their flash designers who skills are world-class. I know a lot of them who are highly skilled. but think for a second, Indonesian highly skilled workers who works for shell and petronas. how many percentage of them here in malaysia compared to PATI? 1? maybe 2?

"even house maid are paid at least 300 RM"

true. they can accept that kinda money. grab anyone here, even from the kampung and ask them to work for that kinda money, do you think they will want to do it? if they do, i'm sure the percentage is insignificant compared to immigrants.

"There are no illegal immigrant that actually can buy a car since they will require your passport and work permit, so perhaps the person that you saw is not illegal immigrant but legal"

i dunno where you came from, but i see them everywhere. dun believe me? go to Ukay Perdana area. better if you have a helicopter. so that you can see for yourself their "settlement" here with bungalows and semi d's. so it's not just cars and bikes, it's houses too. are you saying all of them came here with a work permit? all of them??!

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anggana
post Aug 8 2008, 03:53 PM


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QUOTE(technophile @ Aug 8 2008, 03:11 PM)

Added on August 8, 2008, 3:18 pm

I'm not underestimating them. I know a lot of their flash designers who skills are world-class. I know a lot of them who are highly skilled. but think for a second, Indonesian highly skilled workers who works for shell and petronas. how many percentage of them here in malaysia compared to PATI? 1? maybe 2?

i dunno where you came from, but i see them everywhere. dun believe me? go to Ukay Perdana area. better if you have a helicopter. so that you can see for yourself their "settlement" here with bungalows and semi d's. so it's not just cars and bikes, it's houses too. are you saying all of them came here with a work permit? all of them??!
*
Yes, if you compare the percentage is not that big compare with the Indonesia Expatriate on Petronas and Shell, but the percentage of the legal worker (+students) in total way outnumbered the Illegal immigrant. So are you going to blame the legal worker for accepting low salary?? Who offer them low salary?? We did...., so who should be blame?? government? them? or us?

I am not sure about their "settlement" in Ukay Perdana, but if they can afford to buy house and car, why cant they just be a legal immigrant?? as far as I know the process for making EP in MY is not difficult and not costly, not even 1000 RM I should say.
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post Aug 8 2008, 04:15 PM


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QUOTE(anggana @ Aug 8 2008, 03:53 PM)
Yes, if you compare the percentage is not that big compare with the Indonesia Expatriate on Petronas and Shell, but the percentage of the legal worker (+students) in total way outnumbered  the Illegal immigrant. So are you going to blame the legal worker for accepting low salary?? Who offer them low salary?? We did...., so who should be blame?? government? them? or us?

I am not sure about their "settlement" in Ukay Perdana, but if they can afford to buy house and car, why cant they just be a legal immigrant?? as far as I know the process for making EP in MY is not difficult and not costly, not even 1000 RM I should say.
*
"Yes, if you compare the percentage is not that big compare with the Indonesia Expatriate on Petronas and Shell, but the percentage of the legal worker (+students) in total way outnumbered the Illegal immigrant."

i dunno which part of the country do you live man.. but not from what i see and know. legal worker + students only populate the town area. u barely see them in kuantan, you rarely see them in terengganu, you hardly come across them in penang.

and i'm only speaking about big towns, i know in a few feldas they are there too.

heck, even kampung baru is a haven to them nowadays.

and i dunno where you've been but you can't register yourself to be legal in malaysia. there's process you need to go thru in the malaysian consulate back in indonesia. u need to have an agent and guarantor for your stay here. yes it is cheap, but the process is tedious now that the govt are being selective on ppl who can come here to work. many of them choose to skip this and just come here straight.

i'm not blaming legal worker. i never blamed them. legal workers are treated like expats here. hence their salary is high plus there's a lot of good benefit for them. i have nothing against skilled, highly trained legal workers.

i have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. that's all.
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post Aug 8 2008, 08:03 PM


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QUOTE("technophile)
i have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. that's all.
Since you guys perceive illegals and legals so differently, let's for a start, define fundamental differences between illegals and legals. CYBERJUDGE refuses to comment. You go first.

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post Aug 8 2008, 09:22 PM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 08:03 PM)
QUOTE("technophile)
i have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. that's all.
Since you guys perceive illegals and legals so differently, let's for a start, define fundamental differences between illegals and legals. CYBERJUDGE refuses to comment. You go first.
*
What's your point? Illegal means exactly that. Are you suggesting illegal <insert object> be permitted? Then what's the purpose of law and order?
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post Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM


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QUOTE(PoorMan @ Aug 8 2008, 09:22 PM)
QUOTE("nexous")

Since you guys perceive illegals and legals so differently, let's for a start, define fundamental differences between illegals and legals. CYBERJUDGE refuses to comment. You go first.
What's your point? Illegal means exactly that. Are you suggesting illegal <insert object> be permitted? Then what's the purpose of law and order?
Wow. You're sounding like Musa Hassan: Don't join illegal assemblies because they are illegal.

The difference between illegals and legals are that legals are documented, illegals are undocumented. Legals are not more moral or productive than illegals.

Laws are drawn by man. Liberal social laws would allow street marches like in the west. Restrictive laws would ban any form of such.
Liberal immigration laws would issue more immigration permits. Restrictive ones would attempt to control the volume of immigration, perhaps as a political move to please the working majority.

But point is whatever that is illegal is not intrinsically bad. Whatever that is legal is not necessarily good. Many would argue that demonstrations held lately in KL are a step forward for democracy, albeit illegal. Immigrants likewise, on an illegal ticket, may like illegal assemblies, be viewed as bad in the eyes of the law, but which are not necessarily a moral, economic, or social bad.

A simple example: prostitution or gambling is neither morally good or bad just because of its legal status. If you think both are bad, even if they are legal, they are bad. You can't say that a legal casino is good if you have already decided that gambling is wrong.

Laws do not define morality. Morality draws law, not the other way around. An illegal assembly is not one which is necessarily more destructive than a legal assembly or no assembly. Illegal assembles may mean well, to promote social and political awareness, to advance democracy. Likewise, an illegal immigrant is not necessarily more immoral or more prone to crime than their legal counterparts.

A Malaysian is not necessarily more moral than an illegal Indonesian in Malaysian soil. The view that they indeed are (Malaysians more moral), is called discrimination, not substantiated rationale.

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post Aug 8 2008, 10:24 PM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM)
What's your point? Illegal means exactly that. Are you suggesting illegal <insert object> be permitted? Then what's the purpose of law and order?

Wow. You're sounding like Musa Hassan: Don't join illegal assemblies because they are illegal.

The difference between illegals and legals are that legals are documented, illegals are undocumented. Legals are not more moral or productive than illegals.

Laws are drawn by man. Liberal social laws would allow street marches like in the west. Restrictive laws would ban any form of such.
Liberal immigration laws would issue more immigration permits. Restrictive ones would attempt to control the volume of immigration, perhaps as a political move to please the working majority.

But point is whatever that is illegal is not intrinsically bad. Whatever that is legal is not necessarily good. Many would argue that demonstrations held lately in KL are a step forward for democracy, albeit illegal. Immigrants likewise, on an illegal ticket, may like illegal assemblies, be viewed as bad in the eyes of the law, but which are not necessarily a moral, economic, or social bad.

A simple example: prostitution or gambling is neither morally good or bad just because of its legal status. If you think both are bad, even if they are legal, they are bad. You can't say that a legal casino is good if you have already decided that gambling is wrong.

Laws do not define morality. Morality draws law, not the other way around. An illegal assembly is not one which is necessarily more destructive than a legal assembly or no assembly. Illegal assembles may mean well, to promote social and political awareness, to advance democracy. Likewise, an illegal immigrant is not necessarily more immoral or more prone to crime than their legal counterparts.

A Malaysian is not necessarily more moral than an illegal Indonesian in Malaysian soil. The view that they indeed are (Malaysians more moral), is called discrimination, not substantiated rationale.
*
Fully Agree with you bro... thumbup.gif

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post Aug 8 2008, 10:55 PM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 08:03 PM)
QUOTE("technophile)
i have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants. that's all.
Since you guys perceive illegals and legals so differently, let's for a start, define fundamental differences between illegals and legals. CYBERJUDGE refuses to comment. You go first.
*
legal : filtered, registered, documented, permitted individuals who came to this country using ways stated by our immigration law
illegal : unfiltered, unregistered, undocumented, non permitted individuals who came to this country without using ways stated by our immigration law.

did i miss anything?
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post Aug 8 2008, 11:06 PM


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QUOTE(technophile @ Aug 8 2008, 10:55 PM)

QUOTE("nexous")

Since you guys perceive illegals and legals so differently, let's for a start, define fundamental differences between illegals and legals. CYBERJUDGE refuses to comment. You go first.
legal : filtered, registered, documented, permitted individuals who came to this country using ways stated by our immigration law
illegal : unfiltered, unregistered, undocumented, non permitted individuals who came to this country without using ways stated by our immigration law.

did i miss anything?
You did not. But did you advance a fundamental point?
I doubt so.

Let me join you:
legal assembles: filtered, registered, documented by police, organized according to protocols, acquired relevant permissions, not be against current political regime.
illegal assemblies: unfiltered, unregistered, undocumented by police, not organized according to protocols, not acquired relevant permissions.

What did you understand with the term 'fundamental difference'?

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post Aug 8 2008, 11:16 PM


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[quote=nexous,Aug 8 2008, 11:06 PM]
legal : filtered, registered, documented, permitted individuals who came to this country using ways stated by our immigration law
illegal : unfiltered, unregistered, undocumented, non permitted individuals who came to this country without using ways stated by our immigration law.

did i miss anything?
[/quote]

You did not. But did you advance a fundamental point?
I doubt so.

Let me join you:
legal assembles: filtered, registered, documented by police, organized according to protocols, acquired relevant permissions, not be against current political regime.
illegal assemblies: unfiltered, unregistered, undocumented by police, not organized according to protocols, not acquired relevant permissions.

What did you understand with the term 'fundamental difference'?
*

[/quote]

i dunno genius, why not u tell me.
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post Aug 8 2008, 11:36 PM


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QUOTE("technophile")
i dunno genius, why not u tell me.
I thought I already did? No?

What is this? You don't mind immigrant workers but you don't like illegals?
Do you give more importance to your own rationale or to law?
Don't be helpless. Laws are made by people. Imperfect people. People advancing an ideology.
They are not divine.
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PoorMan
post Aug 9 2008, 12:54 AM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM)
Wow. You're sounding like Musa Hassan: Don't join illegal assemblies because they are illegal.

The difference between illegals and legals are that legals are documented, illegals are undocumented. Legals are not more moral or productive than illegals.
I don't see how you can equate illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies. Try illegally breaking into a home not belonging to you.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM)
Laws are drawn by man. Liberal social laws would allow street marches like in the west. Restrictive laws would ban any form of such.
Liberal immigration laws would issue more immigration permits. Restrictive ones would attempt to control the volume of immigration, perhaps as a political move to please the working majority.
Try getting the home owner to approve your visitation before you decide to break-in illegally.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM)
But point is whatever that is illegal is not intrinsically bad. Whatever that is legal is not necessarily good. Many would argue that demonstrations held lately in KL are a step forward for democracy, albeit illegal. Immigrants likewise, on an illegal ticket, may like illegal assemblies, be viewed as bad in the eyes of the law, but which are not necessarily a moral, economic, or social bad.

A simple example: prostitution or gambling is neither morally good or bad just because of its legal status. If you think both are bad, even if they are legal, they are bad. You can't say that a legal casino is good if you have already decided that gambling is wrong.

Laws do not define morality. Morality draws law, not the other way around. An illegal assembly is not one which is necessarily more destructive than a legal assembly or no assembly. Illegal assembles may mean well, to promote social and political awareness, to advance democracy. Likewise, an illegal immigrant is not necessarily more immoral or more prone to crime than their legal counterparts.
Again I don't see the analogy. Is there any country in the world that you can freely move in and out of without your passport? Liberal immigration policy or no? I don't think so.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 8 2008, 10:19 PM)
A Malaysian is not necessarily more moral than an illegal Indonesian in Malaysian soil. The view that they indeed are (Malaysians more moral), is called discrimination, not substantiated rationale.
*
You are right about one thing, though. It has nothing to do with morality. It's a point of law. However, I tend to symphatise more with illegal assemblies as I would take into account that people have exhausted all available legal avenues before resorting to illegally assemblies to get their voices heard. I can't say the same for illegal immigrants.
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nexous
post Aug 9 2008, 01:46 AM


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QUOTE(PoorMan @ Aug 9 2008, 12:54 AM)
I don't see how you can equate illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies. Try illegally breaking into a home not belonging to you.
Try getting the home owner to approve your visitation before you decide to break-in illegally.
Again I don't see the analogy. Is there any country in the world that you can freely move in and out of without your passport? Liberal immigration policy or no? I don't think so.
You are right about one thing, though. It has nothing to do with morality. It's a point of law. However, I tend to symphatise more with illegal assemblies as I would take into account that people have exhausted all available legal avenues before resorting to illegally assemblies to get their voices heard. I can't say the same for illegal immigrants.
*
Before I reply, I want to know:

What say you if immigration is vastly liberalized, greatly easing the entry and reducing the costs to bring in foreign labor.

Say, will you grant legality to current illegals in this nation?

I expect some elaboration. Generic reasons like "they steal our jobs" are fine too.
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PoorMan
post Aug 9 2008, 02:19 AM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 01:46 AM)
Before I reply, I want to know:

What say you if immigration is vastly liberalized, greatly easing the entry and reducing the costs to bring in foreign labor.

Say, will you grant legality to current illegals in this nation?

I expect some elaboration. Generic reasons like "they steal our jobs" are fine too.
*
Let's be fair. I took your bait earlier on. This time, let's hear the points you have to support illegal immigrants.
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nexous
post Aug 9 2008, 02:44 AM


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QUOTE(PoorMan @ Aug 9 2008, 02:19 AM)
Let's be fair. I took your bait earlier on. This time, let's hear the points you have to support illegal immigrants.
*
See the ironic thing is, I'm not for illegal immigrants. Nor am I for very liberal immigration policies.
I'm convinced that people are confused. They don't know if they truly hate all immigrants, or they hate illegals only. They probably convinced themselves to only hate illegals because they feel guilty for hating legals.

Replies like these are besides the point:
QUOTE("PoorMan")
I don't see how you can equate illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies. Try illegally breaking into a home not belonging to you.

Try getting the home owner to approve your visitation before you decide to break-in illegally.

Again I don't see the analogy. Is there any country in the world that you can freely move in and out of without your passport? Liberal immigration policy or no? I don't think so.
Because no one is trying to say that they should be legal. I'm trying to point that it is besides the point of this thread whether they are or are not legal.

Whether they are legal or illegal does not influence the friendliness of locals to them. Locals dislike immigrants crowding at KLCC every weekend. Who knows if they are illegals or otherwise?

People dislike immigrants for taking up jobs, for crowding up streets, for committing crimes. The first 2 is uninfluenced by their legal status of immigration. The last is really just another form of discriminating generalization.

Illegals are not more guilty for congregating the streets, for taking up jobs, and for committing crimes than their legal counterparts. This is the crux of my argument - all factors contributing to unfriendliness towards immigrants, are not legal status-discriminate. My long post to you tells this point: that legal status does not tell us if a person means good or bad and if it is so, why hate illegals if the presence of immigrants in general is something agreeable?

QUOTE("PoorMan")
You are right about one thing, though. It has nothing to do with morality. It's a point of law. However, I tend to symphatise more with illegal assemblies as I would take into account that people have exhausted all available legal avenues before resorting to illegally assemblies to get their voices heard. I can't say the same for illegal immigrants.
That's really like the common opinion: If I have to shoot someone, I'll shoot a foreigner than a countrymen. Discrimination at work.

Someone posted on page 1, a scenario why there are so many illegals in Malaysia.

Perhaps it doesn't struck you that most people at least, don't immigrate just to rob banks? They only want a better life.


To add:

QUOTE("PoorMan)
I don't see how you can equate illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies. Try illegally breaking into a home not belonging to you.

Try getting the home owner to approve your visitation before you decide to break-in illegally.

Again I don't see the analogy. Is there any country in the world that you can freely move in and out of without your passport? Liberal immigration policy or no? I don't think so.
The analogy wasn't comparing illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies.
It was comparing illegal workers to legal workers, drawing a line by comparing illegal assemblies to legal assemblies.
The point was never that immigration must be justified, but that there is little difference between legal and illegal. Likewise to a social advocate for freedom of speech, it makes little sense to discriminate between legal and illegal assemblies.

This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 9 2008, 03:00 AM
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PoorMan
post Aug 9 2008, 03:53 PM


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Fair enough. Since you have clarified where you are heading with your cryptic posts earlier on, I will answer your question.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 01:46 AM)
Before I reply, I want to know:

What say you if immigration is vastly liberalized, greatly easing the entry and reducing the costs to bring in foreign labor.

Say, will you grant legality to current illegals in this nation?

I expect some elaboration. Generic reasons like "they steal our jobs" are fine too.
*
It depends on the country's needs. If there are requirements in the country for these illegal immigrants which the locals cannot fulfill, the government should consider giving legality to these illegal immigrants to close those gaps and also to better track them. This is one of the available solutions as locals are transitioning to higher value jobs and knowledge-based economy and thereby creating a vacuum in the "bread-and-butter" jobs. Yeah, someone still have to do those jobs at an acceptable cost.

Having said that, it still does not justify people entering the country illegally in the first place.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 02:44 AM)
See the ironic thing is, I'm not for illegal immigrants. Nor am I for very liberal immigration policies.
I'm convinced that people are confused. They don't know if they truly hate all immigrants, or they hate illegals only. They probably convinced themselves to only hate illegals because they feel guilty for hating legals.
I can't speak for the rest but I am indifferent to immigrants. Setting aside sinister agendas (such as increasing the number of Muslims biggrin.gif), they are here to fulfill a certain requirement for the country at the country's invitation. I'm comfortable with that. What I am concerned about are those that gatecrash as they remain an enigma that are beyond our planning and goals. If their numbers are insignificant, it's still acceptable on humanitarian grounds that we absorb them within our infrasturucture. However, if there is a significant number (as in Sabah), there is a cause for concern simply because we did not plan for them and they start to compete with locals for our limited facilities.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 02:44 AM)
That's really like the common opinion: If I have to shoot someone, I'll shoot a foreigner than a countrymen. Discrimination at work.

Someone posted on page 1, a scenario why there are so many illegals in Malaysia.

Perhaps it doesn't struck you that most people at least, don't immigrate just to rob banks? They only want a better life.
It's not as simple as that. We can take in only so much without affecting the locals and our priority remains with the locals. That is the case with any country in the world. You will be welcomed into another country if and only if that country decides that you are able to value-add towards their goals. Illegal immigrants just by-pass that selection process.

QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 02:44 AM)
The analogy wasn't comparing illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies.
It was comparing illegal workers to legal workers, drawing a line by comparing illegal assemblies to legal assemblies.
The point was never that immigration must be justified, but that there is little difference between legal and illegal. Likewise to a social advocate for freedom of speech, it makes little sense to discriminate between legal and illegal assemblies.
*
As explained above, there is a significant difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Drawing a parallel to legal and illegal assemblies is, if you like, a small diversion from more pertinent questions: "can we absorb these illegal immigrants and what is the cost?" and "are they contributing towards the country's goals since there is no mechanism to track them?"
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rattan
post Aug 9 2008, 04:32 PM


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I guess the government should do something specially on the price tag of permits. Permits cost close to RM4k+ to RM10k depending on the job scope. Foreigners cant afford to renew their permits, so they decide to illegally work. For instance a normal laborer earns RM800 a mth (good case) how do they afford to pay close to RM4k for renewal of their permit ?

I asked a few foreign workers before on their permits.
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segamatboy
post Aug 9 2008, 09:13 PM


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[quote=vandridel,Aug 2 2008, 11:57 AM]
So, you think too many immigrates (indo,bangla,philipping) in our country?

the government has take one step to wipe all them.

Boy you are lucky to be a non white. If a white person says what you had said, he /she will be branded as racist. So do you support Pauline Hanson, David Duke etc???


Added on August 9, 2008, 9:32 pm[quote=4Spirit6th,Aug 2 2008, 04:21 PM]


Another one, the quality of the houses built by Indonesian workers, comparing those with oversea houses, the clear winner lies within the latter. I wonder where are those skilled local workers nowadays, they deserved to be paid more than the Indonesians for their skillsets, the employers should not be too stingy in hiring more of these skillful workers.

Which oversea houses?? In North America(US and Canada) they build houses using wood, plastic sidings and fiberglass or styrofoam insulation and drywall. The most common roofing material is asphalt shingles, which is made from cardboard coated with asphalt(tar and sand). Will Malaysians accept these kind of building materials???


Added on August 9, 2008, 9:39 pm[quote=danmooncake,Aug 3 2008, 01:10 PM]

Second, better border controls esp. along the straits of Melaka. Heck, it is widely reported anybody can get a boat
ride for Rm300 from coast of Sumatra to Malaysia in less than 1 day and there is absolutely no navy patrol along the cost to stop you. This must improve.

Looks like you are one of those that don't read newspapers or watch TV. Have you seen news reports of illegal migrants from Africa, middle east and Asia trying to reach Europe or latinos trying to cross the US-Mexico border??


Added on August 9, 2008, 9:56 pm[quote=danmooncake,Aug 3 2008, 01:10 PM]

Second, better border controls esp. along the straits of Melaka. Heck, it is widely reported anybody can get a boat
ride for Rm300 from coast of Sumatra to Malaysia in less than 1 day and there is absolutely no navy patrol along the cost to stop you. This must improve.

Looks like you are one of those that don't read newspapers or watch TV. Have you seen news reports of illegal migrants from Africa, middle east and Asia trying to reach Europe or latinos trying to cross the US-Mexico border?? Whites called for tighter border control, they are branded as rascist. Must be great to be born non white eh??Do you think Malaysians are happy with Kevin Rudd decision to treat illegal migrants 'humanely" by not locking them up??? With UK thinking of imposing visa on Malaysians to deter future would be 'tui fay kay'(jump plane) wannabe, do you 'sokong' that idea.??? Just curious


Added on August 9, 2008, 10:18 pm[quote=CYBERJUDGE,Aug 7 2008, 12:41 PM]
The biggest problem with this illegal immigrants is that they brought over thier lifestyle and culture here ... Just that day , I was queing up to pay some barang in a Kedai runcit , out of no where this Bangla potong queue.. the guy infront of me just gave the Bangla a piece of his mind ... If it was me, bagi present bebentuk buku lima aje... Muka selamba aje ...

The problem with M'sian business especially construction, prefer to employ this indon because its cheaper... They have no proper skill or training ... Just look at the end finishing quality of the new houses these days.... These businesses only want more untung saja ..

They bring in diseases such as denggi and others that is already extinct in M'sia ...

Please wake up and smell the kopi-O. Not only illegals. Legal migrants are doing the same thing. I had my beef with PRCs. Lots of PRCs don't believe in queuing up. Park in no parking zone, disable zone etc
You think only Msian business wants to employ cheap labour??? You think US and Canadian companies don't want to employ cheap labour?? Goto Canada, esp Alberta. Lots on Filipino and Mexican workers on temporary work permit(1-2 years contract)working in small companies that pay $10-12/ hr jobs

This post has been edited by segamatboy: Aug 9 2008, 10:18 PM
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spanker
post Aug 11 2008, 12:56 PM


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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 9 2008, 02:44 AM)
The analogy wasn't comparing illegal immigrants to illegal assemblies.
It was comparing illegal workers to legal workers, drawing a line by comparing illegal assemblies to legal assemblies.
The point was never that immigration must be justified, but that there is little difference between legal and illegal. Likewise to a social advocate for freedom of speech, it makes little sense to discriminate between legal and illegal assemblies.
*
Actually, our right to assemble is guaranteed in the constitution. It's the political pricks who made it "illegal".
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nexous
post Aug 13 2008, 12:17 PM


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QUOTE(spanker @ Aug 11 2008, 12:56 PM)
Actually, our right to assemble is guaranteed in the constitution. It's the political pricks who made it "illegal".
*
Does it matter?
Immigration policies are made by the executive too.
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Buzza
post Aug 27 2008, 04:02 PM


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Im interested with this topics.. Who know the hot news lately about Imigrations Heads Officer were caught by Anty Corruption Agency of Malaysia? So i think, this will answer the question about Imigrants in Malaysia.. The Immigrations Department should take this as responsibility. This is happen because of them.. Corrupt and taking advantage because of power and trust given to them by the government..
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thkhong
post Aug 28 2008, 09:36 AM


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I have no qualms over the discussions of whether PATI is good for us or not. However, can we look at the other side of the picture which a lot of us is either unaware of or has not taken this seriously. Remember KONFRONTASI ? Sukarno wanted to absorb Malaysia into Indonesia as the Greater Indonesia. Now we had welcome more than 20,000 to 30,000 Achenese into our country to live and work "legally" due to humantarism. They are equiped with "YELLOW MYCARDS" legally.

Pause for a moment. With the "infiltration" of these migrants in whether legally or illegally,slowly our country will be filled with them that we may not even recognised that we are living in a country called MALAYSIA! For example we have a first generation Indonesian Malaysian politician in our own state. And for that matter, how many more of their friends and relatives are "invited" into our country. We have heard and read in the media of people of other ethnic origins whose forbears had lived and worked in Malaysia for decades and cannot even get his or her MYCARD. Look dont you think these people deserves better treatment than these other people.

Can our present govt. justify their actions ? What motives have they behind their backs ? What the policies governing this ? Perhaps the Min. of Home Affairs can throw light on this.
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kumarr
post Sep 16 2008, 02:47 AM


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http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y...en&pg=pa_03.htm

PATI: Tidak adil tuduh Dr. Mahathir
KUALA LUMPUR 28 Ogos - Sebanyak 9,342 orang pendatang asing tanpa izin (PATI) yang memasuki Sabah tanpa dokumen perjalanan telah berjaya diberkas dalam tempoh Januari hingga Julai tahun ini.

Menteri di Jabatan Perdana Menteri, Datuk Nazri Abdul Aziz memberitahu, dalam tempoh yang sama sebanyak 154,798 warganegara asing telah memasuki negeri tersebut.

Tambahnya, kerajaan telah mengambil empat langkah bagi menghentikan kemasukan PATI ke Sabah.

''Empat langkah yang dilaksanakan oleh kerajaan ialah operasi penangkapan PATI, pengusiran pulang ke negara asal, memperketatkan kawalan di pintu-pintu masuk dan sempadan negara serta menggalakkan kerjasama, penyertaan dan kesedaran orang awam untuk membanteras PATI," katanya.

Beliau berkata demikian ketika menjawab soalan asal Datuk Eric Enchin Majimbun (BN-Sepanggar) yang ingin tahu jumlah warganegara asing yang memasuki Sabah pada sidang Dewan Rakyat hari ini.

Menjawab soalan tambahan Lim Kit Siang (DAP-Ipoh Timur) sama ada kerajaan mengetahui satu projek yang dinamakan Projek Mahathir di mana PATI diberi kerakyatan, Nazri menegaskan tuduhan Kit Siang itu adalah tidak adil kepada bekas Perdana Menteri, Tun Dr. Mahathir kerana beliau tidak ada di sini untuk menjawab tuduhan tersebut.

Tegas beliau, kerajaan tidak akan memberikan status kewarganegaraan kepada mana-mana orang yang tidak berhak untuk menjadi warganegara.

''PATI ini sebenarnya adalah pendatang haram, macam mana orang yang datang secara haram diberikan keistimewaan untuk menjadi warganegara," katanya.


Everybody knows its a stupid M fault n fraud but still ppl in ministers admistration back up him no matter wat n cover his ugly image


Added on October 15, 2008, 10:12 pmhttp://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/bnm/20081015/tts-committee-biometric-bm-993ba14.html

USE BIOMETRIC TO STEM INFLUX OF ILLEGALS - PAC
Bernama - 1 hour 24 minutes agoKUALA LUMPUR, Oct 15 (Bernama) -- The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) has proposed that biometric scanning machines be used at entry points to stem the influx of illegal immigrants.

ADVERTISEMENT

Its chairman Datuk Seri Azmi Khalid said this would be more practical compared to visas adding the problem had become serious making Malaysians feeling uncomfortable and unsafe.

He said this proposal was made by Immigration enforcement director Datuk Ishak Mohamed at the PAC meeting chaired by him at parliament building here today.

"The government, in this case the Home Ministry need to change its mindset. It must look beyond old technology and opt for new technology in dealing with the illegal immigrants problem.

Azmi said serious attention should be given to the entry and departure problem, be it legal or illegal, adding the biometric system had been successfully introduced in Sabah, particularly at Tawau.

-- MORE

COMMITTEE-BIOMETRIC 2 (LAST) KUALA LUMPUR

"PAC proposes that the thumb print system be used to trace individuals at land and coastal entry points."

He added the system costing about RM50 million should be expanded to include entry points at the border with Thailand and Sumatera, Indonesia.

Azmi who is also Padang Besar MP said PAC would be discussing with Immigration to find ways to stem the influx of illegals including the use of the latest technology.

The PAC meeting which lasted three hours also discussed Defence Ministry's purchase of Eurocopter's Cougar helicopters to replace the ageing Nuri helicopters and Malayan Banking Berhad's purchase of shares in Bank Internasional Indonesia (BII).

It also discussed the high speed broadband network by Telekom Malaysia and the issuance of identity cards by the National Registration Department (NRD.

Azmi said PAC also planned to call up Malayan Banking over the purchase of BII shares, parties involved in the purchase of Cougar helicopters, Telekom Malaysia over the broadband contract and NRD over the identity card issue.


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xenon_aniki
post Nov 24 2008, 02:16 PM


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the thing is who will do foreigner's job when we not intend to do it.
Theres always has a pro and contra
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fazlythewarrior
post Nov 24 2008, 02:29 PM


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for my opinion,its good for other people in other country to come
in malaysia and work here,
but secara HALAL lah,bukannya HARAM,
if they enter here secara HARAM,hasilnya HARAM lah.

simple.
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yeehs18
post Nov 24 2008, 03:47 PM


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As far as I know, the illegal immigrant in Malaysia is around 3 Million. Mostly Indon in peninsular, and Philipine southern Muslim to East Malaysia. Around 1-2 million plus has been issued IC through undertable channel (UMNO way of boosting votes) and became "Bumi". Around 2 Million scattered everywhere. I read a news somewhere that East Malaysia alone has already got 1 Million plus to lower the margin of the natives there to win votes.

Many of these Indons are here to cause social problem. Just go out to the ghetto part of KL and you will see. Some even not afraid of Police when commiting crime.
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Beast-Slayer
post Nov 24 2008, 03:55 PM


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Well.. this issues has become a never ending issues.. gov has promise to stop n wipe all the illegal immigrant but i dun see any effective move has been taken.. what the will do is raid the place.. capture the illegal immigrant and send them back home.. but the numbers of immigrant has increased year by year, be it legally or illegally.. I dun mind having immigrant in Malaysia becoz a lot of other countries also doing the same thing. But judging from wut is happening everyday to our country is making me worry. I think we all had to admit that crime in Malaysia has increase a lot since we open our door to immigrants.. robbery, rape, killing etc.. i dun have any statistics showing that most of the crime is commited by immigrants but i do read newspaper report telling me about police shot indonesian immigrants to death almost everyday. So, i hope the gov will look back at the immigrant policy and revise it.
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kepalakeras
post Nov 24 2008, 04:12 PM


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Immigrants is a way to cut cost for operation too. Most contractors/sub-contractors hire immigrants so they'll get more untung... hmm.gif
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DJFoo000
post Nov 24 2008, 05:52 PM


Really? That's the best reply you can come up with?
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Speaking of immigrants, everyone beware when taking bus.

If you see a big bunch of Indons (I won't speculate but they seem to be), say around 6 to 10 going up a bus, be prepared as they are most likely up to the latest tactics of thievery. They would kepung a women wit the excuse of no place or slow ticketing and start stealing things. Then they would all leave at the next stop simultaneously. They would press the emergency release button to open the doors if the driver does not open the door for them, and they would escape even on a highway.

Sorry for going out of topic but I just had to do that. I saw the incident myself last Saturday.

Speaking of which, I say it's kinda hard for us not to stereotype immigrants as problem makers. I've seen it with my eyes. How do I not believe immigrants don't create problems?

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-Torrz
post Nov 24 2008, 06:23 PM


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They do not create problems? That have to be a joke. they are the catalyst of crimes going on in our country. They(mostly Indons no offense though) walk around with their eyes looking at chicks/ladies in shopping malls. I know I know its not illegal to look at chicks but the way they look at and make noises(laugh, make monkey chants wtf?) is pretty much "threatening" the females. I have seen with my own eyes two idiotic people(not from our country of course) walked from one end to another(I was on the bench sitting at 1U) and talked to a 16 year old girl. And she was alone. They ditched their "plans"(if they had any) when a bunch of her friends came to her(mostly male) which was a sight of relief. You see, even at public places they are dangerous....


I cant officially say immigrant are dangerous but they just keep giving me and the people bad impressions. I knw there are good immigrants also but that number is too few to prove to us something meaningful.

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post Nov 24 2008, 06:28 PM


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QUOTE(DJFoo000 @ Nov 24 2008, 05:52 PM)
Speaking of immigrants, everyone beware when taking bus.

If you see a big bunch of Indons (I won't speculate but they seem to be), say around 6 to 10 going up a bus, be prepared as they are most likely up to the latest tactics of thievery. They would kepung a women wit the excuse of no place or slow ticketing and start stealing things. Then they would all at the next stop simultaneously. They would press the emergency release button to open the doors if the driver does not open the door for them, and they would escape even on a highway.

Sorry for going out of topic but I just had to do that. I saw the incident myself last Saturday.

Speaking of which, I say it's kinda hard for us not to stereotype immigrants as problem makers. I've seen it with my eyes. How do I not believe immigrants don't create problems?
*
QUOTE(-Torrz @ Nov 24 2008, 06:23 PM)
They do not create problems? That have to be a joke. they are the catalyst of crimes going on in our country. They(mostly Indons no offense though) walk around with their eyes looking at chicks/ladies in shopping malls. I know I know its not illegal to look at chicks but the way they look at and make noises(laugh, make monkey chants wtf?) is pretty much "threatening" the females. I have seen with my own eyes two idiotic people(not from our country of course) walked from one end to another(I was on the bench sitting at 1U) and talked to a 16 year old girl. And she was alone. They ditched their "plans"(if they had any) when a bunch of her friends came to her(mostly male) which was a sight of relief. You see, even at public places they are dangerous....
I cant officially say immigrant are dangerous but they just keep giving me and the people bad impressions. I knw there are good immigrants also but that number is too few to prove to us something meaningful.
*

I believe that's the stereotype we got when we go overseas. Yet when we don't want ppl to stereotype us; we however does stereotyping on others. How ironic.

Anyway, all; let's get back to the word "Illegal" shall we? They are genuine ppl who came to our country just to earn a living as we go other countries doing the same thing. However, the legality in it is the questionable issue here.
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post Nov 24 2008, 06:56 PM


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QUOTE(b00n @ Nov 24 2008, 06:28 PM)
I believe that's the stereotype we got when we go overseas. Yet when we don't want ppl to stereotype us; we however does stereotyping on others. How ironic.

Anyway, all; let's get back to the word "Illegal" shall we? They are genuine ppl who came to our country just to earn a living as we go other countries doing the same thing. However, the legality in it is the questionable issue here.
*
yup, some of them (mostly from China) got the study permit and come to our country but they misuse their permits to work as PRC....I can see a lot of them at my housing area where some of them are college girls' age but working as PRC to earn fast cash here...

hardly we can see gov tackle the issue seriously...all they can do is raid those food courts, bars, pubs, KTV lounge....those are just 0.01% of it...there's large percentage out there who are still working without permits here
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post Nov 24 2008, 07:27 PM


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The Malaysian government is not doing their parts well enough to control the influx of foreign workers, and also they seem to make it easy for foreigner to sneak into the countries because many occasions we can see the police or immigration caught illegal immigrants smile.gif whose fault is it? i would say is the immigration department because they do not make the border guarding strong enough and make them easy to sneak in...the same goes for army personnel who guard the border...it is their fault as well for not conducting their duties effective enough...lastly the government should be responsible as well because no stiff action against illegal immigrants...why they are endless of illegal immigrants? because of what? maybe is corruption....

the people of Malaysia also is at fault, because Malaysian have high demand of them that is the ultimate reason why they are here...women needs maid where children are taken care by maids rather then themselves....because of career sweat.gif




QUOTE(spanker @ Aug 11 2008, 12:56 PM)
Actually, our right to assemble is guaranteed in the constitution. It's the political pricks who made it "illegal".
*
assemblies can be illegal if it is discussing something which is deemed illegal by the government sweat.gif


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linkinwayne
post Nov 24 2008, 11:22 PM


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Pardon my laziness, I don't want to scroll up to search for the name, but someone mentioned earlier an extremely good point about psychological racism and the inability to differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants.

That's food for thought right there. We're actively discriminating even though we resent being discriminated in other countries. Hardly the best way to go about it. smile.gif
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heng84
post Dec 3 2008, 11:32 AM


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im working in industrial area, when night falls the indons here are king, my factory workers are all myanmar, they say the often run when they saw indons cos if they have 5ppl and myanmar have 3 ppl they will stop you, buts is good to see police car patroling around my area just to stop those workers
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post Dec 4 2008, 01:31 AM


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QUOTE(linkinwayne @ Nov 24 2008, 11:22 PM)
Pardon my laziness, I don't want to scroll up to search for the name, but someone mentioned earlier an extremely good point about psychological racism and the inability to differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants.

That's food for thought right there. We're actively discriminating even though we resent being discriminated in other countries. Hardly the best way to go about it.  smile.gif
*
Someone also mentioned a similar point a few posts up.
QUOTE(b00n @ Nov 24 2008, 06:28 PM)
I believe that's the stereotype we got when we go overseas. Yet when we don't want ppl to stereotype us; we however does stereotyping on others. How ironic.
This is an issue that is unfortunately present everywhere, and is applicable to pretty much anything which involves interaction with other people. Some people won't think twice before deliberately poking at people for their race, beliefs, etc. while at the same time, they explode at the slightest hint of discrimination against them.

This is where morals come in, but nowadays morals don't have a place higher than money.
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firstbread2794
post Dec 7 2008, 10:53 PM


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We need a long-term plan..not short-term plans chasing out immigrants...

Or ...

Malaysia can become some kind of liberty country?

Like the USA...in the 1800s during the harsh times...Many Europeans crossed over the Atlantic to the US to start over...

If Malaysia can become a country like USA...

sure Malaysia can become a "world power"...in SEA region...

hmm.gif
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post Dec 7 2008, 10:55 PM


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QUOTE(firstbread2794 @ Dec 7 2008, 10:53 PM)
We need a long-term plan..not short-term plans chasing out immigrants...

Or ...

Malaysia can become some kind of liberty country?

Like the USA...in the 1800s during the harsh times...Many Europeans crossed over the Atlantic to the US to start over...

If Malaysia can become a country like USA...

sure Malaysia can become a "world power"...in SEA region...

hmm.gif
*
to become the world power in SEA, first is to change our leaders
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lonely143
post Dec 8 2008, 09:20 AM


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As you see illegel immigrants is serious matter in
Malaysia. For example crime rate increasing due to
them. \

Goverment should start implement heavy penalty
when they catch those illegal immigrants. For example,
a stroke of rotan should server as warning to them.

As old people say Prevent is better then Cure
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flit07
post Dec 8 2008, 09:29 AM


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QUOTE(firstbread2794 @ Dec 7 2008, 10:53 PM)
Malaysia can become some kind of liberty country?

Like the USA...in the 1800s during the harsh times...Many Europeans crossed over the Atlantic to the US to start over...

If Malaysia can become a country like USA...

sure Malaysia can become a "world power"...in SEA region...

hmm.gif
*
Liberty country? Makes no sense bro.
Good joke of world power! We cannot even manage our longkang well in 2008. World power? wow...


Added on December 8, 2008, 9:44 am
QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 09:20 AM)
As you see illegel immigrants is serious matter in
Malaysia. For example crime rate increasing due to
them. \

Goverment should start implement heavy penalty
when they catch those illegal immigrants. For example,
a stroke of rotan should server as warning to them.

As old people say Prevent is better then Cure
*
Not right to say that crime rate increased due to illegal immigrants. There are a lot of factors contributing to crime rate. As the topic stated, social problems. It branches out to poverty, increasing unemployment rate,bla bla bla...hit your textbook for more pointers.

I don't see what's wrong with illegal immigrants, standing at their viewpoints. They are here for a better living, either the good way or the bad way. Not for us to judge though. I feel sympathy for them, having seen such level of poverty in Indonesia. I'm blessed to be born in Malaysia.

Answering to the topic. I think, it's that the issue of government consistent ignorances towards illegal employment ever since it has got started, like 10 years ago? Too bad, problems of illegal immigrants have evolved to our personal security issues.

This post has been edited by flit07: Dec 8 2008, 09:44 AM
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rajulkabir
post Dec 8 2008, 11:07 AM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 09:20 AM)
As you see illegel immigrants is serious matter in
Malaysia. For example crime rate increasing due to
them.

A lot of people say this, but I've never seen any proof. Without proof it's just racism.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 8 2008, 01:22 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 09:20 AM)
As you see illegel immigrants is serious matter in
Malaysia. For example crime rate increasing due to
them. \

Goverment should start implement heavy penalty
when they catch those illegal immigrants. For example,
a stroke of rotan should server as warning to them.

As old people say Prevent is better then Cure
*
Sometimes, a lot of crimes are done by locals too........we need to look at statistics...

Looking for immigrants as scapegoats, will never solve the crime problem totally...

It is dangerous in the sense that we inhibit xenophobia among our own people, just like what happened in South Africa...

Crime, done by local or foreigner........we should combat it.....not just selectively pick a group, then we say "it's done!"....
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lonely143
post Dec 8 2008, 01:40 PM


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Guys lets put this as example =]
Lets say an unknown guy living with you & family
Would you feel comfortable? Will you aware of
every action of him?

Yea illegal immigrants not only cause crime but lot more.
When there is problem create by local already consider worst
Now + illegal immigrant problem will become double worst right?

Due to the illegal immigrant local lose lot of
oppurtunity of job.
Its like virus to the country its spreading
Goverment hv to spend millions to settle down
them and send them back.

Well its just my 2 cents

I just googling : the star robbers shot dead & I found this

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/story.asp...&sec=fightcrime

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/wante...bers-shot-dead/

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/three...bers-shot-dead/

this just part of its ~~

Actually arcording to the TS question, the one to be blame is goverment
because they are encouraging illegal immigrant.
Just look at nearby your nearby housing area restoran.
We did report them but they do nothing -[

Actually I work with illegal immigrant before. They tell me once police stop them
and check ic, the police try to demand thousand riggit from them otherwise
they will be lock up in police station

This post has been edited by lonely143: Dec 8 2008, 01:46 PM
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starsailor1070
post Dec 8 2008, 01:40 PM


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yeah I agree no proof crime increase bcause of them.. but have u all seen report crime done by illegal immigrant? especially when they did buglary? as if they have no mercy slaughtering Msian like just chicken! and too bad that we msian cant even make detail report for crime increase.
Wheather done by illegal immigrant or not.. believe me.. 2007 crime has increase to 70%.. Even in Parliamet recenly issue was brought up.. but too bad!! some of the MP are not allowed to say much... wht to do...
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Kampung2005
post Dec 8 2008, 01:45 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 01:40 PM)
Guys lets put this as example =]
Lets say an unknown guy living with you & family
Would you feel comfortable? Will you aware of
every action of him?

Yea illegal immigrants not only cause crime but lot more.
When there is problem create by local already consider worst
Now + illegal immigrant problem will become double worst right?

Due to the illegal immigrant local lose lot of
oppurtunity of job.
Its like virus to the country its spreading
Goverment hv to spend millions to settle down
them and send them back.

Well its just my 2 cents

I just googling : the star robbers shot dead & I found this

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/story.asp...&sec=fightcrime

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/wante...bers-shot-dead/

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/three...bers-shot-dead/

this just part of its ~~
*
One of the main reasons why illegal immigrants are in Malaysia is because of the job market...

Locals are not interested in doing menial jobs.....thus, to fill the gap, employers prefer to use illegal immigrants....

To entice locals to do menial jobs, should we instate the minimum wage rate?



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flit07
post Dec 8 2008, 01:59 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 01:40 PM)


I just googling : the star robbers shot dead & I found this

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/story.asp...&sec=fightcrime

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/wante...bers-shot-dead/

http://malaysiacrimewatch.lokety.com/three...bers-shot-dead/

this just part of its ~~

Actually arcording to the TS question, the one to be blame is goverment
because they are encouraging illegal immigrant.
Just look at nearby your nearby housing area restoran.
We did report them but they do nothing -[

Actually I work with illegal immigrant before. They tell me once police stop them
and check ic, the police try to demand thousand riggit from them otherwise
they will be lock up in police station
*
hmm...
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation - "They are believed to be foreigners"

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/story.asp...&sec=fightcrime
- "police shot dead two foreigners in Serendah yesterday."

The other two websites given landed me on a invalid page.

So, the souces reported foreginers, not illegal immigrants. Have to interpret carefully bro.
The goverment is encouraging illegal immigrant? no no no...
Malaysia could be consider quite a wealthy state in this region. It became a magnet, and draws in immigrants around the region to live for a better life. It is never the case of governement encouraging the influx of illegal immigrants, but the lack of enforcement promotes illegal immigrants flocking in. And it links to your point of what the police did.
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lonely143
post Dec 8 2008, 03:25 PM


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QUOTE(flit07 @ Dec 8 2008, 01:59 PM)
hmm...
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation - "They are believed to be foreigners"

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/story.asp...&sec=fightcrime
- "police shot dead two foreigners in Serendah yesterday."

The other two websites given landed me on a invalid page.

So, the souces reported foreginers, not illegal immigrants. Have to interpret carefully bro.
The goverment is encouraging illegal immigrant? no no no...
Malaysia could be consider quite a wealthy state in this region. It became a magnet, and draws in immigrants around the region to live for a better life. It is never the case of governement encouraging the influx of illegal immigrants, but the lack of enforcement promotes illegal immigrants flocking in. And it links to your point of what the police did.
*
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation
The four men did not carry any identification documents on them


Fine then who are to be blame?
Seems like you guys blame on me pointing
on those illegal immigrants

And pls answer some of my question too -]

Guys lets put this as example =]
Lets say an unknown guy living with you & family
Would you feel comfortable? Will you aware of
every action of him?

Yea illegal immigrants not only cause crime but lot more.
When there is problem create by local already consider worst
Now + illegal immigrant problem will become double worst right?
Double trouble ~~~

This post has been edited by lonely143: Dec 8 2008, 03:28 PM
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flit07
post Dec 8 2008, 03:53 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 03:25 PM)
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3618&sec=nation
The four men did not carry any identification documents on them
Fine then who are to be blame?
Seems like you guys blame on me pointing
on those illegal immigrants

And pls answer some of my question too -]

Guys lets put this as example =]
Lets say an unknown guy living with you & family
Would you feel comfortable? Will you aware of
every action of him?

Yea illegal immigrants not only cause crime but lot more.
When there is problem create by local already consider worst
Now + illegal immigrant problem will become double worst right?
Double trouble ~~~
*
hmm...
Still not quite fit the definition of illegal immigrants.
But this fits well. http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/9/7/nation/22256323&sec=nation

well, first of all i won't invite such a unknown guy to stay with my family. I'm not keen to know his action if this guy stays with me.
If it's relating to the issue of illegal immigrants, I don't think the comparison is vaild.

Illegal immigrants also cause what sort of problems? Without these sort of immigrants, do you think the industry they work in will survive? There are a estimated 1.2 million of illegal immigrants.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/Frontpage/2392749/Article/index_html

I'm not in support of illegal immigrants, but analytically, we should pursue these issues with better grasp. And not pointing every social problems (crime) onto them. On who's to blame, blame? What could be done in such a deteriorate governance?
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lonely143
post Dec 8 2008, 04:36 PM


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QUOTE(flit07 @ Dec 8 2008, 03:53 PM)
hmm...
Still not quite fit the definition of illegal immigrants.
But this fits well. http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/9/7/nation/22256323&sec=nation

well, first of all i won't invite such a unknown guy to stay with my family. I'm not keen to know his action if this guy stays with me.
If it's relating to the issue of illegal immigrants, I don't think the comparison is vaild.

Illegal immigrants also cause what sort of problems? Without these sort of immigrants, do you think the industry they work in will survive? There are a estimated 1.2 million of illegal immigrants.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/Frontpage/2392749/Article/index_html

I'm not in support of illegal immigrants, but analytically, we should pursue these issues with better grasp. And not pointing every social problems (crime) onto them. On who's to blame, blame? What could be done in such a deteriorate governance?
*
beside illegal immigrants there is another legal immigrants
called labour workers which is legal and approved by goverment dude

let say local labour is 70% and we nid to fill 30 legal labour workers (immigrant)
and suddenly another illegal immigrant 20% appear so what would happen?

Please correct your statment " There are a estimated 1.2 million of illegal immigrants"
Perhaps the 1.2m is legal labour workers that are permitted by goverment.
Others than crime, they contribute disease, social problem and etc ~~~
Although is not much but "sikit sikit lama lama jadi bukit"
I never blame 100% problem on them but they do contribute on it right?

There is no approriate answer on this and thats why we are discussing -]

This post has been edited by lonely143: Dec 8 2008, 04:38 PM
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Kampung2005
post Dec 8 2008, 04:46 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 04:36 PM)
beside illegal immigrants there is another legal immigrants
called labour workers which is legal and approved by goverment dude

let say local labour is 70% and we nid to fill 30 legal labour workers (immigrant)
and suddenly another illegal immigrant 20% appear so what would happen?

Please correct your statment  " There are a estimated 1.2 million of illegal immigrants"
Perhaps the 1.2m is legal labour workers that are permitted by goverment.
Others than crime, they contribute disease, social problem and etc ~~~
Although is not much but "sikit sikit lama lama jadi bukit"
I never blame 100% problem on them but they do contribute on it right?

There is no approriate answer on this and thats why we are discussing -]
*
First, you need to think how to fill those menial jobs which are currently done by foreigners..............with locals?

That's a challenge...

Unless we can think of this, it is hard to replace the blue collar workforce...
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flit07
post Dec 8 2008, 05:26 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 04:36 PM)
beside illegal immigrants there is another legal immigrants
called labour workers which is legal and approved by goverment dude

let say local labour is 70% and we nid to fill 30 legal labour workers (immigrant)
and suddenly another illegal immigrant 20% appear so what would happen?

Please correct your statment  " There are a estimated 1.2 million of illegal immigrants"
Perhaps the 1.2m is legal labour workers that are permitted by goverment.
Others than crime, they contribute disease, social problem and etc ~~~
Although is not much but "sikit sikit lama lama jadi bukit"
I never blame 100% problem on them but they do contribute on it right?

There is no approriate answer on this and thats why we are discussing -]
*
Read the source dude, the number of 1.2 million is from the source, and it's stated as illegal immigrant workers.
They contributed to disease? like?

I couldn't get any accounts of illegal immigrants contributing to diseases. But, yes for social problem, as reported in some of our sources. Perhaps you can fetch us more details.
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lonely143
post Dec 8 2008, 08:45 PM


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QUOTE(flit07 @ Dec 8 2008, 05:26 PM)
Read the source dude, the number of 1.2 million is from the source, and it's stated as illegal immigrant workers.
They contributed to disease? like?

I couldn't get any accounts of illegal immigrants contributing to diseases. But, yes for social problem, as reported in some of our sources. Perhaps you can fetch us more details.
*
Simple as this prostitution = AIDS
Serious I think goverment should set up minimum wages
for blue colar worker otherwise those employer are like "king"

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rajulkabir
post Dec 8 2008, 09:14 PM


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QUOTE(lonely143 @ Dec 8 2008, 08:45 PM)
Simple as this prostitution = AIDS
Black market prostitution = AIDS.

Easily solved by legalising it and having regulations and health inspections. Unfortunately, many societies - including Malaysia - are too immoral to do the right thing, and instead continue to try to push prostitution under the rug where it hurts everyone more.
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xcen
post Dec 11 2008, 02:07 PM


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I just want to point out 1 problem here:

The thread suggests that we SHOULD blame on a party.


It seems that our fingers are so itchy that it must be pointed to any parties as long as it is not ourselves.

We blame the government, the workers, the employers.

All that we know how to do now is blame, let me suggest a better option.

Why not make a proper planning, and execute it? Wouldn't it be more productive than blaming?

Just my 2 cents. smile.gif
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flit07
post Dec 11 2008, 03:06 PM


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QUOTE(rajulkabir @ Dec 8 2008, 09:14 PM)
Black market prostitution = AIDS.

Easily solved by legalising it and having regulations and health inspections. Unfortunately, many societies - including Malaysia - are too immoral to do the right thing, and instead continue to try to push prostitution under the rug where it hurts everyone more.
*
Any reports that support your claim that illegal immigrants bring in diseases like AIDS?
It's not an easy task by enacting health inspections for everyone, and we are talking about illegal immigrants. How can we track them?


Added on December 11, 2008, 3:08 pm
QUOTE(xcen @ Dec 11 2008, 02:07 PM)
I just want to point out 1 problem here:

The thread suggests that we SHOULD blame on a party.
It seems that our fingers are so itchy that it must be pointed to any parties as long as it is not ourselves.

We blame the government, the workers, the employers.

All that we know how to do now is blame, let me suggest a better option.

Why not make a proper planning, and execute it? Wouldn't it be more productive than blaming?

Just my 2 cents.  smile.gif
*
Ya, we are analysing the situation and hopefully we could reach a first step solution.

This post has been edited by flit07: Dec 11 2008, 03:08 PM
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post Dec 12 2008, 04:44 PM


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QUOTE
KOTA KINABALU: There is no need for any negotiations with Manila to get it to drop its claim on Sabah because Malaysia was formed in 1963 with international blessing, Deputy Foreign Minister Datuk Abdul Rahim Bakri said.

He said Malaysia’s position was clear as the formation of Malaysia was based on the Cobbold Commission assessment report for the formation of the nation in 1963 and was recognised by the United Nations.

“I think the question of negotiating should not arise as we resolved this matter in 1963 when Malaysia was formed,” Rahim told reporters after launching his ministry’s nationwide Information Dissemination and Public Diplomacy programme here.

He was asked to comment on a call by Parti Bersatu Sabah to include state leaders in negotiating teams to get the Philippines to drop its Sabah claim “once and for all.”

He said the Philippines’ claim was based on a civil agreement that was superseded by the Sabah people’s wish to join the Malaysian federation based on the findings of the Cobbold Commission and also the United Nations.

However, Rahim added that within the Asean framework they had mechanisms to settle various disputes through an amicable and peaceful manner.


http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...4039&sec=nation

Alarm bells, anyone?

This post has been edited by madmoz: Dec 12 2008, 04:44 PM
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aurora97
post Dec 12 2008, 04:55 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 12 2008, 04:44 PM)
its nothing to scream abt indonesians and filipines have been eager to lay claim on sbh, sabah itself is an independent and sovereign state in which the people pre-indepence day have agreed over-whelmingly to join the federation. Thank god for that cause Manila can barely handle the small tiny islands it has what more a larger juicier chunk.

safe tosay today, such claims r no longer relevant and probably should remain as bed time stories for our children in the future.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 12 2008, 05:01 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 12 2008, 04:44 PM)
The Philippines already has its own problem in Mindanao........no way they can claim Sabah...

Also, somehow the ruling of Ligitan and Sipadan island that favours Malaysia rather than Indonesia.......may strengthen Malaysia's right on Sabah too!
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shazreensara
post Dec 13 2008, 11:08 AM


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if the government don't take any serious action now, sooner or later the population of illegal immigrants will be higher than local population
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mouldybread
post Dec 13 2008, 11:22 AM


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QUOTE(shazreensara @ Dec 13 2008, 11:08 AM)
if the government don't take any serious action now, sooner or later the population of illegal immigrants will be higher than local population
*
actually it seems to some that it has already gone over the point of no return for sabah, the government taking actions only delay it. unless a miracle happens...

not that i do not want the government to do anything, in fact i think they should but just that i have my pessimisms...
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madmoz
post Dec 13 2008, 11:58 AM


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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Dec 12 2008, 04:55 PM)
its nothing to scream abt indonesians and filipines have been eager to lay claim on sbh, sabah itself is an independent and sovereign state in which the people pre-indepence day have agreed over-whelmingly to join the federation. Thank god for that cause Manila can barely handle the small tiny islands it has what more a larger juicier chunk.

safe tosay today, such claims r no longer relevant and probably should remain as bed time stories for our children in the future.
*
you missed the point. our claims is based on the peopls' wish, and with the large number of filipinos here at the moment, if the poll was conducted today, would the outcopme be the same?
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post Dec 13 2008, 01:29 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 13 2008, 11:58 AM)
you missed the point. our claims is based on the peopls' wish, and with the large number of filipinos here at the moment, if the poll was conducted today, would the outcopme be the same?
*
I still think the Filipinos that come here would divide themselves on which nation to vote for, it's not a must that every Filipino would vote for their nation when it comes down to it, cause they have first hand experience of how it is ruled there.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 13 2008, 01:37 PM


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Reasons for presence of Filipinos in Sabah :

- Better wages than in Mindanao or surrounding southern islands

- Peace, compared to Mindanao in the past which has wars

I think it is hard to patrol the Sulu sea, because it is vast, and porous border...

However, round the clock operation and raid in Sabah, may help to reduce the problem...

Building more detention/ deportation centre, wont help that much, what we need is more patrols around Sabah, conduct more raids in Sabah...

Filipino government cooperation is needed for easier deportation process, but that is hampered by their reluctance of opening their consulate in Kota Kinabalu...
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aurora97
post Dec 13 2008, 02:20 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 13 2008, 11:58 AM)
you missed the point. our claims is based on the peopls' wish, and with the large number of filipinos here at the moment, if the poll was conducted today, would the outcopme be the same?
*
I dont thin i missed out anything, when a majority speaks the minority shall submit. Like you said based on people's claim that Sabahans have decided to join the federation.

Why are we concerned about filipinos that are currently in Malaysia, they either came in illegally, or abused their IMM3 passes, or to my understanding just foreigners. The assistance we rendered to them does not turn them automatically become citizens of the federation of Malaysia. Their rights and privileges (if they legitimately enter into Malaysia) are no different than an American or British citizen entering Malaysia.

Sabahan's has spoken, does it mean currently there r more Malaysian's working in Singapore that we can start a revolution and declare singapore part of Malaysia?

Remember the Konfrontasi Days by Indonesia? Should be now handover Sarawak as well?

All this are settled matters and the Filipino Gov are trying to look into every nook and cranny to extend their boundary, whilst they can't even manage their own. Should they want to break ties with Malaysia or worse go to war, i say bring it on. Cause we know in the first place that we were right, an unquestionably in the right.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 13 2008, 02:26 PM


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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Dec 13 2008, 02:20 PM)
I dont thin i missed out anything, when a majority speaks the minority shall submit. Like you said based on people's claim that Sabahans have decided to join the federation.

Why are we concerned about filipinos that are currently in Malaysia, they either came in illegally, or abused their IMM3 passes, or to my understanding just foreigners. The assistance we rendered to them does not turn them automatically become citizens of the federation of Malaysia. Their rights and privileges (if they legitimately enter into Malaysia) are no different than an American or British citizen entering Malaysia.

Sabahan's has spoken, does it mean currently there r more Malaysian's working in Singapore that we can start a revolution and declare singapore part of Malaysia?

Remember the Konfrontasi Days by Indonesia? Should be now handover Sarawak as well?

All this are settled matters and the Filipino Gov are trying to look into every nook and cranny to extend their boundary, whilst they can't even manage their own. Should they want to break ties with Malaysia or worse go to war, i say bring it on. Cause we know in the first place that we were right, an unquestionably in the right.
*
I very doubt a war among countries can happen in ASEAN...

When the days of confrontation in 1962-1966....Asean was not born yet, and the idea of regional cooperation was still very much in infancy those days...
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post Dec 13 2008, 02:45 PM


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QUOTE(Kampung2005 @ Dec 13 2008, 02:26 PM)
I very doubt a war among countries can happen in ASEAN...

When the days of confrontation in 1962-1966....Asean was not born yet, and the idea of regional cooperation was still very much in infancy those days...
*
just as an example of worse case scenario, not to be discuss further in this thread cause its irrelevant really.

It's not abt Asean either.

Unless Malaysia took away Sabah by force than Filipines by all means can take it back.

But after 50 yrs (or less) of keeping quiet and now all the ruckus, tell me is this right for filipines to do so?

if u put your car in my house knowingly and leave it there for 50 yrs for example, don't you think i have a stronger argument of being the owner (though in law the person still owns it but i has neglected to enforce it) of it? I drove around with it, washed it, care for it and maintained it.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 13 2008, 03:21 PM


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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Dec 13 2008, 02:45 PM)
just as an example of worse case scenario, not to be discuss further in this thread cause its irrelevant really.

It's not abt Asean either.

Unless Malaysia took away Sabah by force than Filipines by all means can take it back.

But after 50 yrs (or less) of keeping quiet and now all the ruckus, tell me is this right for filipines to do so?

if u put your car in my house knowingly and leave it there for 50 yrs for example, don't you think i have a stronger argument of being the owner (though in law the person still owns it but i has neglected to enforce it) of it? I drove around with it, washed it, care for it and maintained it.

*
This is what we called as "exercising sovereignty", or should i say..."effective rule"...

Anyway, the presence of illegal immigrants, especially from southern Philippines, have an impact to the way Sabahan lives, for example...

Sandakan town centre, nowadays are quite deserted of the presence of illegal immigrants in that part of Sandakan.....but suburban area in Sandakan are the preferred place for Sandakanites to do business and to live in, because of the perceived low number of illegal immigrants...

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madmoz
post Dec 13 2008, 04:21 PM


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how true, my fiancee is from sandakan and believe you me, there are more filipinos in the town center than locals. shakehead.gif
certain parts of my hometown KK are starting to feel the same too the last time i was back.

something is not right surely.
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Kampung2005
post Dec 13 2008, 04:42 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 13 2008, 04:21 PM)
how true, my fiancee is from sandakan and believe you me, there are more filipinos in the town center than locals.  shakehead.gif
certain parts of my hometown KK are starting to feel the same too the last time i was back.

something is not right surely.
*
Which is exactly the reason why many middle class Sandakanites prefer to live in suburbs, not in town centre...

Even many property projects are in suburbs, not in town centre (although the reason is more to the size of town centre)...

But look at night time, suburban area is livlier than in town centre (although things has been changed a bit since then with the development of new CBD)

The point is that illegal immigrants does contribute to the change of how the people in my town lives and the location of businesses.....

Even in KK city centre, you can see illegal immigrants easily...

But, then in Sarawak, you don't feel that problem.........unlike in Sabah...
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mouldybread
post Dec 14 2008, 10:21 AM


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QUOTE(Kampung2005 @ Dec 13 2008, 04:42 PM)
Which is exactly the reason why many middle class Sandakanites prefer to live in suburbs, not in town centre...

Even many property projects are in suburbs, not in town centre (although the reason is more to the size of town centre)...

But look at night time, suburban area is livlier than in town centre (although things has been changed a bit since then with the development of new CBD)

The point is that illegal immigrants does contribute to the change of how the people in my town lives and the location of businesses.....

Even in KK city centre, you can see illegal immigrants easily...

But, then in Sarawak, you don't feel that problem.........unlike in Sabah...
*
the problem does not lie in sandakan and kk only, other towns like lahad datu and especially tawau that is right next to indonesia is transformed drastically. no longer do you see much locals around the town centers but alot of immigrants, illegal or otherwise. crime rate had shot up and there are alot of backdoor mykad cases that are given seemingly freely by the nric department...
sigh...
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post Dec 18 2008, 07:40 PM


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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 13 2008, 11:58 AM)
you missed the point. our claims is based on the peopls' wish, and with the large number of filipinos here at the moment, if the poll was conducted today, would the outcopme be the same?
*
it doesn't matter. the international community recognises sabah as malaysian and we are under no pressure to conduct a plebiscite on whether sabah wants to join the philippines. they can claim as much as they want, but unless they are willing to back their claim with their military, its of no concern.
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MisterCrono
post Dec 19 2008, 01:23 PM


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U cant blame the immigrants ... i would say Malaysian consider some of the jobs are very shameful and dont want to take the jobs even they are jobless..

As i'm from Sunway area... guard, cleaner, waiter, heavy workers such as air con maintenance ppl, construction workers and even the hawker stalls are all operated by immigrants ..
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lonely143
post Dec 20 2008, 10:26 AM


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QUOTE(MisterCrono @ Dec 19 2008, 01:23 PM)
U cant blame the immigrants ... i would say Malaysian consider some of the jobs are very shameful and dont want to take the jobs even they are jobless..

As i'm from Sunway area... guard, cleaner, waiter, heavy workers such as air con maintenance ppl, construction workers and even the hawker stalls are all operated by immigrants ..
*
Well government shall set a standard for immigrants
on what job they can and cant do.

Lets said if immigrants doing the electronic and technical job
we as local people going to do what after they take over our job?
Well no doubt that immigrants are cheaper then us but bear in mind
it will make country to fall in working line

Well I wonder does immigrant have EPF?
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b3rnard7
post Dec 20 2008, 11:34 AM


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QUOTE(MisterCrono @ Dec 19 2008, 01:23 PM)
U cant blame the immigrants ... i would say Malaysian consider some of the jobs are very shameful and dont want to take the jobs even they are jobless..

As i'm from Sunway area... guard, cleaner, waiter, heavy workers such as air con maintenance ppl, construction workers and even the hawker stalls are all operated by immigrants ..
*
well,...Im from shah alam...u can see many vietnamese,bangla,burmese as well.Most of them are factory workers,kopitiam waiter,working in market area and etc.

Reasons:

- their salary is cheap
- local ppl are more educated
- they willing to do those "low class ppl" job
- they are from those rural areas in their country,our RM is big enough for them.If they go to Singapore lagi keng!

Just for example,if u r a factory owner...to hire a local worker need to pay RM1500 per head but if u hire a vietnamese worker is only RM500.Which 1 will u choose? With RM1500,u can hire 3 workers to do the same job already!

This post has been edited by b3rnard7: Dec 20 2008, 11:37 AM
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PrincZe
post Dec 20 2008, 11:56 AM


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So goverment allows immigrants..but not illegal..we still need them to do the ''low class'' jobs..
Let them come in but with the correct way.
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mrjinggozzz
post Dec 24 2008, 01:42 PM


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haiya...why the illegal immigrant dont use legal way?...although the illegal way is cheap...if we compare again...legal ways is more better....hmm i think we need to decrease their amount in our country...many of them just make many problem to our community!
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post Dec 31 2008, 10:52 PM


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QUOTE(vandridel @ Aug 2 2008, 11:57 AM)
So, you think too many immigrates (indo,bangla,philipping) in our country?
Criminals and perverts as they are, I can only think of our own nation to blame. We are not strict enough. We are like a free country, to the images of foreigners.
These same people work in Singapore, and do they do illegal acts and commit mischief in public? No.
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post Jan 1 2009, 12:32 AM


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QUOTE(PrincZe @ Dec 20 2008, 11:56 AM)
So goverment allows immigrants..but not illegal..we still need them to do the ''low class'' jobs..
Let them come in but with the correct way.
*
this is because:
1) Locals not really want to do those "low class" jobs...
2) Locals demand higher paid for willing to do those "low class" jobs...
actually, those "low class" jobs are not really very low cass or danger, but its' really very "low paid"... and I believed if the paid for those jobs are higher and well-paid, than should have a lot of locals willing to do it... as everybody is working for the money, not for the job class...
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lancelyod
post Jan 2 2009, 03:06 PM


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Generally, the people need to blamed
1. The people who demand for it
2. The people who offer it

U bring them cum, u need to know the sequent


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post Jan 2 2009, 03:43 PM


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In my opinion, these immigrants don't wish to be called PATI as well. They have their own problems in the motherland so they have to move to new places in search for safer environment. They can come to Malaysia for jobs but make sure they've come into Malaysia the right way. I do feel our government needs to put serious actions in dealing the PATI because my hometown - Sandakan, Sabah has been infested with them and it looks like Little Manila.
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Thalmes
post Jan 3 2009, 12:39 PM


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QUOTE(polobun @ Jan 2 2009, 03:43 PM)
In my opinion, these immigrants don't wish to be called PATI as well. They have their own problems in the motherland so they have to move to new places in search for safer environment. They can come to Malaysia for jobs but make sure they've come into Malaysia the right way. I do feel our government needs to put serious actions in dealing the PATI because my hometown - Sandakan, Sabah has been infested with them and it looks like Little Manila.
*
Not only Sandakan , The whole Malaysia also got infested by illegal immigrants . Our government stated that they will take actions towards the illegal immigrants , from what I see ... In my hometown ... There's a whole village of illegal immigrant...The government did indeed took action towards them but all they did was destroying the village and use that land to make roads and such . Yet the illegal immigrant's number did not drop since that happened . During the new year celebration ... The stadium was pick with illegal immigrants more than our local people , Is illegal immigrant dominating our city ?

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influenza04
post Jan 3 2009, 03:33 PM


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illegal immigrants who is to be blamed? i guess it'll have to be pointed to the government. u see, our country lacks enforcement. 1st of all, these illegals come to malaysia in search for a job.

the government should enforce stiffer penalties on the people who hire these illegals. like penjara and rotan together. this should be the way.

2ndly, they should have more enforcers guarding our coastline. i know malaysia's coastline is very long...

well, i think why illegals dont dare to enter singapore is because of the consequences they have to face if caught? i guess thats why... so malaysia should just be the same. make it brutal so they'll stay off malaysian soil.
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Thalmes
post Jan 3 2009, 03:39 PM


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But seeing the corruption level in Malaysia here ... I doubt that even worked especially when cash is involved .
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post Jan 3 2009, 03:54 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 3 2009, 03:33 PM)
illegal immigrants who is to be blamed? i guess it'll have to be pointed to the government. u see, our country lacks enforcement. 1st of all, these illegals come to malaysia in search for a job.

the government should enforce stiffer penalties on the people who hire these illegals. like penjara and rotan together. this should be the way.

2ndly, they should have more enforcers guarding our coastline. i know malaysia's coastline is very long...

well, i think why illegals dont dare to enter singapore is because of the consequences they have to face if caught? i guess thats why... so malaysia should just be the same. make it brutal so they'll stay off malaysian soil.
*
well easy to said but hard to do( in this term easy to type tongue.gif )


put them on jail not bring us any good.. some of them would be happier if got cough and live in behind bars. free food and everything tongue.gif .
To Malaysia it only bring up the cost. Kem tahanan all around Malaysia already overcrowded

I dont know why Malaysian like to compare with Singapore every time.

to guard a small land like Singapore are much easier compare guarding a land 25 time larger than.. furthermore Singapore make more money(richer) than Malaysia(they have higher police per area rate than malaysia. are they?). But I agree that enforcement should be more powerful and frequent.

In fact rather than give punishment to illegal immigrants better give heavy punishment to employer. No Job for them = No Them laugh.gif
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post Jan 3 2009, 04:06 PM


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QUOTE(mousepad87 @ Jan 3 2009, 03:54 PM)
well easy to said but hard to do( in this term easy to type tongue.gif )
put them on jail not bring us any good.. some of them would be happier if got cough and live in behind bars. free food and everything tongue.gif .
To Malaysia it only bring up the cost. Kem tahanan all around Malaysia already overcrowded

I dont know why Malaysian like to compare with Singapore every time.

to guard a small land like Singapore are much easier compare guarding a land 25 time larger than.. furthermore Singapore make more money(richer) than Malaysia(they have higher police per area rate than malaysia. are they?). But I agree that enforcement should be more powerful and frequent.

In fact rather than give punishment to illegal immigrants better give heavy punishment to employer. No Job for them = No Them laugh.gif
*
correct correct. but illegals dun dare go singapore also because of the penalties.
but well, since these immigrants come to malaysia in search of money, we'll have to go to the root of the problem... money!
where they get money? employers give... so we'll have to give heavy heavy punishments to the employers so they'll stop hiring illegals. especially for the construction sector. must kao tim them.
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Thalmes
post Jan 3 2009, 04:15 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 3 2009, 04:06 PM)
correct correct. but illegals dun dare go singapore also because of the penalties.
but well, since these immigrants come to malaysia in search of money, we'll have to go to the root of the problem... money!
where they get money? employers give... so we'll have to give heavy heavy punishments to the employers so they'll stop hiring illegals. especially for the construction sector. must kao tim them.
*
They gotta think of this also ... If they ''settled'' the illegal immigrants in the construction sector ... How are they gonna earn income and finish the construction on time ? Sure got riot or complains if this happened . Same goes for other sectors ... Government should make the bosses to ''apply'' working visa for them at a price for each person . The visas may be Working Visa , Business Visa , Or PR .
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post Jan 3 2009, 04:26 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 3 2009, 04:15 PM)
They gotta think of this also ... If they ''settled'' the illegal immigrants in the construction sector ... How are they gonna earn income and finish the construction on time ? Sure got riot or complains if this happened . Same goes for other sectors ... Government should make the bosses to ''apply'' working visa for them at a price for each person . The visas may be Working Visa , Business Visa , Or PR .
*
so ur suggestion to solve this problem?

im thinking of slowly applied strict punishment to employer.. but dont Malaysia enfocer already like that. Buat kerja slow slow.. hahaha

out of topic.. it quite funny in lowyat.. I see one thread flaming police not doing their job allowing double parking, over speed limits,seat belt~high dead toll rate(during festive season) and so on.. but in other thread flaming DBKL,police because issues summon them wrong parking, seat belt and over speed limits.(saying police and the enfocer dont have other job other than summons) rclxub.gif
some Malaysian just like to blame others and themselves are no different. Cakap tak serupa bikin

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post Jan 3 2009, 04:26 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 3 2009, 04:15 PM)
They gotta think of this also ... If they ''settled'' the illegal immigrants in the construction sector ... How are they gonna earn income and finish the construction on time ? Sure got riot or complains if this happened . Same goes for other sectors ... Government should make the bosses to ''apply'' working visa for them at a price for each person . The visas may be Working Visa , Business Visa , Or PR .
*
no need to be said, of cause our construction industry relies heavily on the immigrants. but, difference is... one is through legal entry and the other is through God-knows-how they came in.

So, of cause there's no need to be said that construction companies should apply working permits for them. i dont mean forbid foreign workers from working in construction sites. this is impossible. but only that the companies must go through the proper channels.
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Thalmes
post Jan 3 2009, 04:42 PM


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Get the bosses to apply for working visas for their illegal immigrant...Of course the boss gotta pay for it . Then enforcer or police will go and check the place out and do some management there . I don't know how much can this help but we gotta do something ... If not , Malaysia will become Philippines
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Kampung2005
post Jan 3 2009, 04:49 PM


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In the case of repatriation of illegal immigrants, it's not one way job.........it's two way job, in which it needs both the cooperation of our country and the embassy from which the national is coming from...

Sometimes, the reluctance of some government to open consulate in a place, makes things difficult to repatriate them...
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influenza04
post Jan 3 2009, 05:22 PM


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QUOTE(Kampung2005 @ Jan 3 2009, 04:49 PM)
In the case of repatriation of illegal immigrants, it's not one way job.........it's two way job, in which it needs both the cooperation of our country and the embassy from which the national is coming from...

Sometimes, the reluctance of some government to open consulate in a place, makes things difficult to repatriate them...
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it not only is hard... but also an expensive thing. hmm... so, one more way... penalise the employer in-order to pay for the cost of repatriation to their country of origin. i guess our ministers should read these ideas. currently repatriation all using taxpayers money. better make the employer pay for it. plus... kena hukuman also
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post Jan 3 2009, 05:28 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 3 2009, 05:22 PM)
it not only is hard... but also an expensive thing. hmm... so, one more way... penalise the employer in-order to pay for the cost of repatriation to their country of origin. i guess our ministers should read these ideas. currently repatriation all using taxpayers money. better make the employer pay for it. plus... kena hukuman also
*
Latest news!

Source : http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=62066

QUOTE

Fast-track deportation of illegal migrants

Kuala Lumpur: Malaysia said Friday it is fast-tracking the deportation of illegal migrants under a pilot project that will see offenders handed a fine and a one-way ticket home - bypassing court and jail.

"We have got more than one million people who are illegals in this country so I don't think our prisons are big enough," Home Minister Datuk Syed Hamid Albar told a press conference.

"So if people have overstayed slightly, we will try to sort it out."

Under the present system, illegal migrants are arrested, charged in court and face a variable fine or jail sentence.

But under the scheme, launched at Kuala Lumpur's main airport, offenders will have their biometric details recorded - including fingerprints and facial recognition data - before being served with a small fine.

The cost of their flight home will be covered by employers' bonds which are paid when hiring a foreigner.

"We are just beginning the test project... Once this system is established and we are confident that it works, then we are going to install it at all our entry and exit points," said senior Home Ministry official Raja Azahar.

Migrant rights group Tenaganita criticised the new approach, which will give visa overstayers no right to appeal in court or to be represented by a lawyer.

"We are concerned by the new policy because a lot of foreign workers end up being illegal because employers fail to renew their work permit and bond," said the group's coordinator Aegile Fernandez.

"They end up being illegal not due to any fault of their own and these individuals should not then face expulsion," she told AFP.

Syed Hamid urged employers not to rely on foreign workers.

The nation of 27 million people has an estimated 2.2 million foreign labourers who are the mainstay of the plantation and manufacturing sectors.

"When the economy is facing a global crisis, we must give priority to our people," he said.- AFP

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post Jan 3 2009, 05:44 PM


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"The cost of their flight home will be covered by employers' bonds which are paid when hiring a foreigner."

how if they're illegals... means, entered the country illegally. there're no bonds. how? so... jz get the employer. doesnt matter with or without bonds.
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TypeR
post Jan 4 2009, 01:59 PM


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Who to blame for the Illegal Immigrants in Malaysia?

Mostly the authorities / GOV who is in charge! Who else ? wink.gif

They have the power to control the in & out of the country.

Look at Singapore do they have this issue?

We as a Malaysian Citizen, we're paying for taxes, electricity... out of our own pocket money!

While the illegal immigrants can stay here for free they can build houses wherever they like with electricity, no need to pay any taxes, some bad illegal immigrants causing trouble's, etc... what more they even get a malaysian IC approved by the Authority!!!


shakehead.gif whistling.gif

This post has been edited by TypeR: Jan 4 2009, 11:00 PM
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influenza04
post Jan 5 2009, 10:30 PM


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QUOTE(TypeR @ Jan 4 2009, 01:59 PM)
Who to blame for the Illegal Immigrants in Malaysia?

Mostly the authorities / GOV who is in charge! Who else ?  wink.gif

They have the power to control the in & out of the country.

Look at Singapore do they have this issue?

We as a Malaysian Citizen, we're paying for taxes, electricity... out of our own pocket money!

While the illegal immigrants can stay here for free they can build houses wherever they like with electricity, no need to pay any taxes, some bad illegal immigrants causing trouble's, etc... what more they even get a malaysian IC approved by the Authority!!!
shakehead.gif  whistling.gif
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hmm... im not too sure. maybe a PR perhaps? i not sure abt citizenship la. but then, true... i see many indonesians having MyKad. should screen these indons la. should only give it to professionals from other countries. not any tom d*** n harry from indonesia.

PEOPLE OF MALAYSIA!!! since economy is not that good now, be more careful as these foreigners will be doing more n more crime.. beware.. and im not stereotyping.. its jz the painful truth. whistling.gif
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beatlesalbum
post Jan 6 2009, 01:42 AM


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Almost half of the people on the public transport are immigrants legal or illegal. We are paying tax money and these people are western unioning their money of to their motherland, and they are hogging up a LOT of resources. From public transport right up to free govt hospitalization. And when they come, as the saying goes " when it rains, it pours". Geez, the companies that employ them should take care of em, not just look at profits and see the country run into hell.
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post Jan 6 2009, 09:07 AM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 5 2009, 10:30 PM)
hmm... im not too sure. maybe a PR perhaps? i not sure abt citizenship la. but then, true... i see many indonesians having MyKad. should screen these indons la. should only give it to professionals from other countries. not any tom d*** n harry from indonesia.

*
The sole reason why Indonesians, even if they are manual labourers or domestic helpers can easily obtain pink ICs in a relatively short period of time is due to the UMNO administration's policy of boosting Muslim Malay numbers and hence votes to cement its place in power.


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Thalmes
post Jan 6 2009, 02:38 PM


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A lot investors from all of the world doesn't wanna invest in Malaysia because illegal immigrants are part of the reasons . And our government thinks its okay with that . They really should think up something to make investors to invest in our country so Malaysia will be able to achieve its goal which is Wawasan 2020
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post Jan 6 2009, 02:50 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 6 2009, 02:38 PM)
A lot investors from all of the world doesn't wanna invest in Malaysia because illegal immigrants are part of the reasons . And our government thinks its okay with that . They really should think up something to make investors to invest in our country so Malaysia will be able to achieve its goal which is Wawasan 2020
*

Why or what makes you think that investors don't wanna invest because of illegal immigrants?
Typical investors would choose startup cost and labour cost which is cheap. So are you saying illegal immigrants are expensive to hire?!..

No, investors doesn't invest in M'sia not because of that mind you. Anyway, there's another topic in regards to why investors are leaving M'sia if you're interested in the topic.

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post Jan 6 2009, 03:18 PM


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QUOTE(SPS @ Jan 6 2009, 09:07 AM)
The sole reason why Indonesians, even if they are manual labourers or domestic helpers can easily obtain pink ICs in a relatively short period of time is due to the UMNO administration's policy of boosting Muslim Malay numbers and hence votes to cement its place in power.
*
but by right, non-citizens kenot vote la. i tot only blue MyKads only can vote? hmm... u mean phantom voters ka? brows.gif


Added on January 6, 2009, 3:21 pm
QUOTE(b00n @ Jan 6 2009, 02:50 PM)
Why or what makes you think that investors don't wanna invest because of illegal immigrants?
Typical investors would choose startup cost and labour cost which is cheap. So are you saying illegal immigrants are expensive to hire?!..

No, investors doesn't invest in M'sia not because of that mind you. Anyway, there's another topic in regards to why investors are leaving M'sia if you're interested in the topic.
*
very very true... what mod says is true. why businesses shift to thailand, vietnam n china from malaysia? coz the labor cost there is cheaper than here. i guess manufacturing operations are shifting. but maybe most R&D's are still remaining in malaysia coz of the availability of grads. hmm... but if malaysian education keep lowering their standards, maybe one day it'll be shifted to other countries hmm.gif

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post Jan 6 2009, 03:46 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 3 2009, 12:39 PM)
Not only Sandakan , The whole Malaysia also got infested by illegal immigrants . Our government stated that they will take actions towards the illegal immigrants , from what I see ... In my hometown ... There's a whole village of illegal immigrant...The government  did indeed took action towards them but all they did was destroying the village and use that land to make roads and such . Yet the illegal immigrant's number did not drop since that happened . During the new year celebration ... The stadium was pick with illegal immigrants more than our local people , Is illegal immigrant dominating our city ?
*
Sandakan,Lahad Datu,Tawau,Keningau ETC Would Still Be A JUNGLE If It Weren't For Greedy Timber Company Owner(+Gov.Support) Who Hire Illegal Immigrants. Dont 100% Blame Illegal Immigrants.

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post Jan 6 2009, 04:02 PM


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QUOTE(siksa @ Jan 6 2009, 03:46 PM)
Sandakan,Lahad Datu,Tawau,Keningau ETC Would Still Be A JUNGLE If It Weren't For Greedy Timber Company Owner(+Gov.Support) Who Hire Illegal Immigrants. Dont 100% Blame Illegal Immigrants.
*
wrong perception... the point now is... there are legal entry immigrants. but now the point is, its abt ILLEGAL immigrants cool2.gif

well, if they come in through legal means, i think im ok with that. but their numbers must be controlled nod.gif
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post Jan 6 2009, 04:26 PM


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QUOTE(b00n @ Jan 6 2009, 02:50 PM)
Why or what makes you think that investors don't wanna invest because of illegal immigrants?
Typical investors would choose startup cost and labour cost which is cheap. So are you saying illegal immigrants are expensive to hire?!..

No, investors doesn't invest in M'sia not because of that mind you. Anyway, there's another topic in regards to why investors are leaving M'sia if you're interested in the topic.
*
Can you say that investors are okay with illegal immigrants ? They start a riot and such in their own country ... You think they won't do it in other places ? Yes Malaysia is not their birthplace and they don't have the authorities to do anything . But how can you be so sure of this ? No one can prove to anyone that they won't start a riot here .

Startup cost and labour cost ... Yes cheap ... But what about the safety of the place ? I don't think they would wanna invest in somewhere that can be in trouble anytime .

QUOTE

Added on January 6, 2009, 3:21 pm
very very true... what mod says is true. why businesses shift to thailand, vietnam n china from malaysia? coz the labor cost there is cheaper than here. i guess manufacturing operations are shifting. but maybe most R&D's are still remaining in malaysia coz of the availability of grads. hmm... but if malaysian education keep lowering their standards, maybe one day it'll be shifted to other countries hmm.gif
*
I'm not sure about Thailand but Vietnam and China ... I definitely would also choose to invest there cause of the growing market .


*fixed "quote" coding

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post Jan 6 2009, 04:32 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 6 2009, 04:26 PM)
Can you say that investors are okay with illegal immigrants ? They start a riot and such in their own country ... You think they won't do it in other places ? Yes Malaysia is not their birthplace and they don't have the authorities to do anything  . But how can you be so sure of this ? No one can prove to anyone that they won't start a riot here .
*

This might be exactly what they think of us M'sian in the west or down under....

Anyway, the fact is I'm no investor and are you? Based on what you quote, they left us because of illegal immigrants. For all you might know, they could have a part in hiring them. Again that's based on no fact. It is the same as your "IMO" quote.

QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 6 2009, 04:26 PM)
Startup cost and labour cost ... Yes cheap ... But what about the safety of the place ? I don't think they would wanna invest in somewhere that can be in trouble anytime .
I'm not sure about Thailand but Vietnam and China ... I definitely would also choose to invest there cause of the growing market .
*

Btw, comparing to Thai; M'sia is more peaceful...don't you think?

p/s: Am not condoning illegal immigrants nor approve of it, but your reasoning is flawed.

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post Jan 6 2009, 04:44 PM


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QUOTE(b00n @ Jan 6 2009, 04:32 PM)
This might be exactly what they think of us M'sian in the west or down under....

Anyway, the fact is I'm no investor and are you? Based on what you quote, they left us because of illegal immigrants. For all you might know, they could have a part in hiring them. Again that's based on no fact. It is the same as your "IMO" quote.


Btw, comparing to Thai; M'sia is more peaceful...don't you think?

p/s: Am not condoning illegal immigrants nor approve of it, but your reasoning is flawed.
*
Like I said ... I'm not sure about Thailand . I would be happy even if its flawed ... It's a discussion thread anyway . And I gotta have new knowledge .



You and I are not investors ... But try thinking in the ''investors-way'' . They could be a part of hiring them to work on the investor's project ... Yes correct ... But with so many illegal immigrants ... You sure all of them would be given a job ?What if those who got expelled for certain reasons ? I have no complains or hatreds towards the illegal immigrants...These are just my opinions .

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post Jan 6 2009, 04:52 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 6 2009, 03:18 PM)
but by right, non-citizens kenot vote la. i tot only blue MyKads only can vote? hmm... u mean phantom voters ka? brows.gif

*
Their children get blue ICs.
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post Jan 6 2009, 06:36 PM


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QUOTE(SPS @ Jan 6 2009, 04:52 PM)
Their children get blue ICs.
*
This shouldnt happen... hmm... rclxub.gif we should make it exclusive that those immigrants from indonesia dun get citizenship, even for their children.. otherwise, they just stay here for the rest of their lives... icon_question.gif

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zk9
post Jan 7 2009, 06:50 AM


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blame the person who hired them!. cause no demand no illegal immigrant....restaurant , farm, factory tauke...blame them.....still why?...malaysian dont want to work on this environment why?....we are much more higher class and the payment is not worth it for us. If the payment is high tauke will go bankrupt. Then blame who?...blame the government!....government say hey its the demand from factory, restaurant, farm bla2......then this process will keep repeating. kekekeke no solution unless they pay a good salary and control the foreign employee....
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post Jan 7 2009, 02:42 PM


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QUOTE(zk9 @ Jan 7 2009, 06:50 AM)
blame the person who hired them!. cause no demand no illegal immigrant....restaurant , farm, factory tauke...blame them.....still why?...malaysian dont want to work on this environment why?....we are much more higher class and the payment is not worth it for us. If the payment is high tauke will go bankrupt. Then blame who?...blame the government!....government say hey its the demand from factory, restaurant, farm bla2......then this process will keep repeating. kekekeke no solution unless they pay a good salary and control the foreign employee....
*
Yeap but I don't think this will happen ... With our country's corruption ... I doubt it will ever work out on that
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Rights commission to document influx of illegals
Joe Fernandez | Jan 7, 09 3:58pm

Human Rights Commission vice-chairperson Simon Sipaun wants those with documentary evidence of the extraordinary rise in the state’s population in recent decades to come forward and lodge reports with Suhakam in Kota Kinabalu.

"Such documentation, in the absence of a royal commission, is the next best way to get a clear picture of the growing illegal population in Sabah," said Sipaun.

"The public update yesterday from the federal government on the number of unrecognised refugees in the state, although disputable, will add to our body of knowledge on the problem."

He was commenting on a disclosure by the Special Task Force in the Prime Minister’s Department that Sabah currently hosts 93,000 foreigners – 81,000 Filipinos and 12,000 Indonesians – who hold IMM13 documents issued by the Immigration Department.

The task force, under director Misri Barham, has been under pressure for months to provide an update on the issue following the commencement of a crackdown against the several hundred thousand illegals in the state.

So far, added Sipaun, his office in Kota Kinabalu has gathered various documents including academic studies on the illegal influx in Sabah. These include "When States Prefer Non-Citizens Over Citizens: Conflict Over illegal Immigration into Malaysia" by Kamal Sadiq and "Stateless in Sabah" by Vanitha Nadaraj.

Sipaun pointed out that there is a common thread running through these documents and two earlier books by MD Mutalib, "Projek IC" – a reference to genuine identity cards issued through the back door to illegals during the administration of Dr Mahathir Mohamad and "Lelaki Malaysia Terakhir".

user posted image

"I have personally witnessed many events - the issuance of personal documents to illegals and illegals on the electoral roll - as described in the two books," said Sipaun, a former Sabah state secretary during the PBS administration.

"Allegations contained in the books have never been challenged by those named in the books."

Both the academic studies, made available by Sipaun, allege that illegal immigrants played an important part in the electoral process in Sabah.

Just how "visible" is the presence of illegal immigrants in Sabah?

Worried "locals" have this to say according to Sadiq: "Ours must be the only place in the world where illegals have the courage to walk about in the streets with impunity, commit crimes, use our overstretched government hospitals, steal our water, attend our schools and milk us of our resources in numerous ways."

Do illegal immigrants have more rights?

While the Nadaraj study echoes much of what Sadiq has to say, the author warned that "a social volcano is brewing in Sabah, where about 300,000 stateless people have no rights, no voice, and no avenue for redress, breeding bitterness and anger".

Even so, Nadaraj pointed out that from the 1970s until 1984, many stateless people were given Malaysian identity cards that offered privileges in exchange for votes.

"Malaysia uses census practices and documentation to incorporate an illegal immigrant population from the Philippines," wrote Sadiq.

"Illegal immigrants play an electoral role in Sabah because of the loosely institutionalised nature of citizenship."

"So, why should a state give non-citizens preference over native citizens? Why is being native not enough? These facts are in direct contrast to what most scholars know about Malaysia: that it is a multiethnic country with successful preferential policies for its natives, the sons of the soil.

"Yet by encouraging illegal immigration, Malaysia was privileging non-citizens over citizens in certain situations."

Sadiq also observed that ironically, illegal immigrants were taking part in the electoral process (in Sabah) even as many natives continue to have no documents proving their citizenship.

According to him, "illegal immigrants were being welcomed and afforded the rights of citizens by sections of the Malaysian state over the opposition of many native citizens".

"Illegal immigration to Malaysia from the Philippines and Indonesia highlights the paradox of states actively admitting illegal immigrants."

Holders of the IMM13 have the right to reside and work in Sabah without a work permit.

Most of them work as labourers, fishermen or small-time traders at night markets.

Their children can study at Malaysian schools upon payment of an annual fee of RM120 for primary and RM240 for secondary schools.

Holders have to renew the IMM13 annually and pay a RM90 fee but they have no right to travel outside the state.

"Refugee figures in Sabah are an important barometer of the extraordinary rise in the state’s population in recent decades although the figures themselves may be in dispute. The IMM13 holders themselves are only a fraction of the illegal immigrant population in Sabah," added Sipaun.

"In fact, the authenticity of these IMM13 documents themselves can be questioned since quite a number may have been falsified. We have come across such cases before."

Sipaun also questioned Malaysia’s divergent approaches in dealing with the problem of ‘refugees’ in Sabah and Peninsular Malaysia, where an estimated 25,000 Rohingyas from Burma have been denied the IMM13 document and its attendant privileges.

http://malaysiakini.com/news/95957


Added on January 10, 2009, 4:07 pmWelfare body in the dock over illegals
Joe Fernandez | Jan 10, 09 3:18pm

Yayasan Islam Sabah (YIS), a welfare body, has come out fighting, denying strenuously the widely-held public perception that it is in cahoots with former chief minister Harris Salleh to bring illegal immigrants into the state.

"Although many illegal immigrants flooding Sabah are Muslims, that’s just a coincidence," said YIS secretary-general Raden Kakung. "YIS has never supported the entry of illegal immigrants. In fact, YIS supports the federal and state governments’ ongoing efforts to flush out and repatriate all illegal immigrants."

The body was responding to numerous criticisms in the forum pages of local newspapers for its oft-noted public statements on the issue of illegal immigrants including the latest on the issuance of green ICs to foreigners who entered Sabah illegally and subsequently became stateless.

One anonymous critic, ‘Bumiputera Tulen’ from Ranau, described it "as rather odd that YIS, a religious body, and Raden Kakung like to get involved in the issue of illegal immigration. From the numerous statements made, I am of the view that Raden, YIS and Harris Salleh are sympathetic to the illegals".

"As far as I know, PKR Sabah Chief Dr Jeffrey Gimpoi Kitingan and Dr Chong Eng Leong are taking the stand that foreigners who entered the country illegally should not be eligible for the green IC. They never mention any nationality," added ‘Bumiputera Tulen’.

Chong, a former senior PBS supreme council member, has been involved in court battles and police reports against the presence of illegal immigrants in the state. He left the party after it re-joined the Barisan Nasional and took a softer public line on the issue of illegal immigration.

"I know of a housemaid who used to return to the Philippines quite frequently. Now, she has a MyKad and her seven children are in possession of documents which make them eligible to apply for MyKads," wrote another anonymous commentator ‘Panglima Gantang’ of Penampang.

He said he objected to YIS’ stand that the green MyKads be issued to all stateless foreigners in Sabah and warns of the security implications for Malaysia ‘in view of the recent incidents in Mumbai’.

‘Many ‘pendatang’ non-Muslims...’


Raden denied labeling and anti-immigrant activist Chong as ‘anti-Filipino’ or ‘anti-Indonesian’ or racist in a recent YIS statement carried by local media. "We were merely advising them to look at the larger picture within the context of the nation and not be so narrow-minded," said Raden.

"Many of the pendatang (Indians and Chinese) in Peninsular Malaysia, it must be noted, are non- Muslims. There are also many foreign workers there from Nepal, Myanmar, Thailand, Indonesia and elsewhere."

"However, we agree that the green MyKads be issued to those who are stateless. Our stand must not be misconstrued as our being together with the illegal immigrants from Indonesia and the Philippines who are in Sabah."

The YIS chief justified his organisation’s stand on the green ICs on the grounds that Malaysia is party to several international conventions on the rights of refugees – KL is not a signatory – and human rights.

Green ICs, renewable every five years, allow holders to work without a work permit and conduct transactions like banking or sitting for public examinations, among others, for which a personal identity card is required.

Kitingan and Chong have taken the public stand that under Regulation 5 (3) of the National Registration Act, those born in Malaysia of parents who entered the country illegally and the local born children of IMM13 document holders – unrecognised refugees – are not eligible for the green MyKad while those in possession of a Late Registration Birth Certificate need to have their document verified by a court in accordance with the Sabah Ordinance on Births and Deaths.

YIS stand is that the existing regulations allow the home minister to issue green MyKads to stateless foreigners and this should not be queried since it has been endorsed by the federal cabinet and Barisan Nasional.

"Dr Kitingan and Dr Chong should not speculate on the problems that would arise if the registration exercise for green ICs proceeds," said Raden. "As democrats, they should accept the green IC registration exercise under Regulation 3 (1) which has been approved by the federal cabinet."

NRA regulations disputed

Raden also cautioned Kitingan and Chong against imputing sinister motives to the federal government on the issue of illegal immigrants and pointed out that numerous cases in court testify to the sincerity of the authorities in tackling the problem of those acquiring the MyKad through the backdoor.

"There is no proof the federal government is behind the issue of MyKad and birth certificate issuance to illegal immigrants," said Raden. "Those who make such accusations are in the same category as the Mumbai authorities who blame Pakistan for the terrorist attacks there recently just because a captured gunman was found with a Pakistani identity card in his pocket.

"Luckily Malaysia was not accused too because the gunmen were carrying Malaysian credit cards."

It is not known what lies behind the numerous statements that YIS issues from time to time on the issue of illegal immigrants often with Harris Salleh on the bandwagon too.

YIS is not involved in any activities of a religious nature including missionary work or promoting Islam as a religion. On paper, YIS stresses on the welfare and socio-economic needs of the ummah (the Muslim faithful) and "ensuring that the teachings of Islam are followed by its adherents".

In recent public pleas - apparently in defence of the large illegal immigrant population in Sabah - YIS has gone to great lengths to link their (the illegals’) presence with Malaysia’s and Sabah’s growing labour needs.

YIS has also disputed the adverse interpretation of the National Registration Act against illegal immigrants, more specifically Regulation 3 (1); Regulation 27; and Regulation 5 (3), pointing out that there are "loopholes" in the various regulations which favour illegal immigrants in Sabah "if authorities exercise their discretionary powers judiciously".

http://malaysiakini.com/news/96185

This post has been edited by DarReNz: Jan 10 2009, 04:07 PM
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influenza04
post Jan 16 2009, 12:48 PM


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i juz came across this article

QUOTE
Thai soldiers are detaining illegal migrants from Bangladesh and Burma and forcing them back out to sea in boats without engines, survivors say.

Survivors say their hands were tied and they were towed out to sea with little or no food or water.

About 500 migrants are now recovering from acute dehydration in India's Andaman islands and the Indonesian province of Aceh.

Thai officials were not immediately available for comment.

But sources in the police and army confirmed to the BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok that asylum seekers are being pushed out to sea. They did not provide further details about the practice.

Thousands of poor Burmese and Bangladeshis try to reach south-east Asian nations in search of work.

'Without food'

Survivors rescued by Indian coast guards say hundreds of other asylum-seekers are still missing after leaving Bangladesh and Burma since the end of November.

They told the BBC that they paid agents to take them to Thailand by boat so that they could have a better life.

Map

They said that the Thai authorities detained many of them in Koh Sai Daeng island.

"Thai soldiers tied up our hands and then put us in boats without engines. These were towed into the high sea by motorised boats and left to drift," said Zaw Win, a survivor rescued by Indian coast guards off the coast of Little Andamans after drifting for 12 days.

"We were without food and water. The Thai soldiers clearly wanted us to die on the boats," Win told the BBC by telephone from a camp where survivors are being cared for.

Other survivors said that about 400 migrants were put on a huge boat by soldiers. It was equipped with only two bags of rice and two drums of drinking water.

"The food and water ran out in two days. After that we were starving for nearly 15 days before we saw a lighthouse and jumped into the sea and tried swimming ashore," Mohammed Said told the BBC.

This group of migrants was also rescued by the Indian coast guards and put into relief camps.

"They have all suffered huge dehydration. We are taking care of them the best we can," said Ratan Kar, deputy director of health services in the Andamans.

'Dehydration and starvation'

Nearly all of those rescued have equally harrowing stories.

Dehydrated Bangladeshi immigrant after being rescued by the Indian coast guard
The asylum seekers are dehydrated (Photo: Andaman Chronicle )

One Rohingya villager from Burma said that his son and seven friends had left together on the same boat.

He said that after they were arrested by the Thai authorities, they were forced onto the same large boat without an engine:

"Four of them, including my son, survived but four died," he said.

"My son told me that many died because of dehydration and starvation but many also jumped into the sea.

"When the boat finally drifted close to an Andaman island, there were only just over 100 still onboard."

The refugees say that hardly any of them escaped the Thai military guarding the country's coastal islands.

Human rights activists have condemned Thailand's "inhuman and brutal response" to this new wave of illegal migration.
Thailands coastline is also very long. but how come our military hardly catches anyone? still got so many illegals coming in by sea. shakehead.gif
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Kampung2005
post Jan 16 2009, 04:59 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 16 2009, 12:48 PM)
i juz came across this article
Thailands coastline is also very long. but how come our military hardly catches anyone? still got so many illegals coming in by sea.  shakehead.gif
*
As if our country maritime force never ever catches illegal immigrants...

We do have our fair share of raids by our maritime force...

Example :

http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=62333
http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=16681
http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=60043
http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=59490

Something need to be done to reduce the dependency of foreigners in blue collar workforce, by instituting minimum wage standards, hopefully that can entice locals to blue collar sector...

Tackle the job market, then we can reduce the demand...

We must ask the Philippines government to open consulate in KK, whatever the reason they may give....

Thailand do have high number of illegal immigrants, most of them are from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia.....in 1999, there are about 1 million illegal workers....

http://www.burmalibrary.org/reg.burma/arch...1/msg00164.html

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beatlesalbum
post Jan 28 2009, 01:48 PM


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.. and to add to that, you have them sucking out all our currency and resources.
They live such pitiful standards of living here.
They can cram 3 to a room which is probably a makeshift room above a shophouse.
Why? so they can bring out all the money back to their homeland.
Not only are they not good spenders, but they use all our important resources like subsidized public transport, free medical and others.
and its not like they are a small minority.
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bgeh
post Jan 28 2009, 10:30 PM


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QUOTE(influenza04 @ Jan 5 2009, 10:30 PM)
hmm... im not too sure. maybe a PR perhaps? i not sure abt citizenship la. but then, true... i see many indonesians having MyKad. should screen these indons la. should only give it to professionals from other countries. not any tom d*** n harry from indonesia.

PEOPLE OF MALAYSIA!!! since economy is not that good now, be more careful as these foreigners will be doing more n more crime.. beware.. and im not stereotyping.. its jz the painful truth. whistling.gif
*
As the economy goes downhill so will Malaysians turn to crime. Beware, I'm not stereotyping either, it's also the painful truth. So what's your point now again?

QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Jan 28 2009, 01:48 PM)
.. and to add to that, you have them sucking out all our currency and resources.
They live such pitiful standards of living here.
They can cram 3 to a room which is probably a makeshift room above a shophouse.
Why? so they can bring out all the money back to their homeland.
Not only are they not good spenders, but they use all our important resources like subsidized public transport, free medical and others.
and its not like they are a small minority.
*
Damn those Malaysians in America! Damn those Malaysians in the UK! Damn those Malaysians in Australia!
Damn them for sucking out American, the British and Australian cash, and using their resources, stealing their jobs, their women!
Send them all back!

See how it works both ways now?

This post has been edited by bgeh: Jan 28 2009, 10:32 PM
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bob
post Jan 29 2009, 01:33 PM


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illegal immigrants stay here bcoz of greedy rich person. Easy to hire immigrant & if not enough budget, tokey can call police or immigration or just kick out them with paying any single cent.
other thing ..... our authority really lazy to do their work ... so illegal can stay here like heaven
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empyreal
post Jan 30 2009, 03:32 AM


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QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Jan 28 2009, 01:48 PM)
.. and to add to that, you have them sucking out all our currency and resources.
They live such pitiful standards of living here.
They can cram 3 to a room which is probably a makeshift room above a shophouse.
Why? so they can bring out all the money back to their homeland.
Not only are they not good spenders, but they use all our important resources like subsidized public transport, free medical and others.
and its not like they are a small minority.
*
look at it in a different light - if they earn any local currency in a legal fashion, that means that they have worked. by working, they've already contributed to the economy by their labour, and its very unlikely that businesses are paying them the equivalent of their contribution to the economy back to them as wages - 1000 indon builders building a billion dollar building isn't getting paid one billion dollars in total wages.

from their wages, they still pay for their food and such, so a bit more of their money stays here. to be fair, they should pay taxes, and if malaysians did their jobs more money would stay, but then again, without the labourers in the first place, that billion dollar addition to the economy wouldn't be there.

no immigrant will come if there's no work, no one will offer work if there are no room for profit.
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Thalmes
post Jan 31 2009, 05:07 PM


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QUOTE(empyreal @ Jan 30 2009, 03:32 AM)
look at it in a different light - if they earn any local currency in a legal fashion, that means that they have worked. by working, they've already contributed to the economy by their labour, and its very unlikely that businesses are paying them the equivalent of their contribution to the economy back to them as wages - 1000 indon builders building a billion dollar building isn't getting paid one billion dollars in total wages.

from their wages, they still pay for their food and such, so a bit more of their money stays here. to be fair, they should pay taxes, and if malaysians did their jobs more money would stay, but then again, without the labourers in the first place, that billion dollar addition to the economy wouldn't be there.

no immigrant will come if there's no work, no one will offer work if there are no room for profit.
*
If we disapprove of illegal immigrant here , Riot will start ... And if we don't ... Some major problems will be created . I'm not being a racist or anything here , Illegal Immigrants tends to do whatever job there is just to live in Malaysia whereas for locals ... They would not work . This very reason has made major companies / factories to hire them to work in the factory or anywhere else . Thus , Increasing their numbers
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crapp0
post Jan 31 2009, 05:12 PM


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QUOTE(Thalmes @ Jan 31 2009, 05:07 PM)
If we disapprove of illegal immigrant here , Riot will start ... And if we don't ... Some major problems will be created . I'm not being a racist or anything here , Illegal Immigrants tends to do whatever job there is just to live in Malaysia whereas for locals ... They would not work . This very reason has made major companies / factories to hire them to work in the factory or anywhere else . Thus , Increasing their numbers
*
Who will riot? the illegal immigrants? Now thats the most stupid thing those ppl can do, come here illegally, do work which they not supposed to be doing or even step foot in this country. And when want 2 chase them out, they get angry at us.
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Thalmes
post Jan 31 2009, 05:33 PM


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QUOTE(crapp0 @ Jan 31 2009, 05:12 PM)
Who will riot? the illegal immigrants? Now thats the most stupid thing those ppl can do, come here illegally, do work which they not supposed to be doing or even step foot in this country. And when want 2 chase them out, they get angry at us.
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You think this won't happen if they have enough numbers . Or maybe the company or factories will complain and start a riot just because they have not enough laborer ? This could happen .
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DarReNz
post Feb 14 2009, 07:00 PM


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'Federal gov't not doing enough'
Tony Thien | Feb 14, 09 3:00pm

Sabah’s ex-Barisan Nasional component, the Sabah Progressive Party (Sapp) is sad and disappointed at the lack of concrete steps taken by the federal government to address the problem of illegal immigrants in the state.

The party’s organising secretary and Silam zone chairperson Kassim Sulaiman in a statement today said Sapp has submitted numerous memorandums and petitions to the federal government on the matter but to no avail.

He called on the government to urgently address the matter, especially in light of the recent episodes in Lahad Datu and Kunak where a police team was mobbed by a group of suspected illegal immigrants at a fish market and two smallholders were hacked to death by illegal immigrants at their plantation.

"Our members of parliament together with other Sabah members of parliament have also repeatedly raised the matter to the attention of the federal government. Unfortunately, not enough has been done by the federal government and the problem of illegals in Sabah still persists", he said.

General air of despondency in Sabah

Sulaiman added that illegal immigrants in the state are becoming increasingly aggressive towards the government and showing disrespect towards the law and order of the state.

"Their presence in Sabah is a threat to our national security and sovereignty. If the security forces cannot overcome this problem, what chance do the ordinary people of Sabah have?" Kassim asked, adding that the large number of illegals is having a negative impact on the economic, social, cultural and political landscape of Sabah.

"If not effectively curbed, Sabah, in the end will loose out to the illegal immigrants,".

Sapp has been very vocal about the problem of illegal immigrants in the state, who are believed to be mainly from southern Philippines and Indonesia, as well as from other countries, like Pakistan.

There is a general air of despondency in Sabah today as the authorities, both state and federal, are seen as not being serious enough in tackling the problem effectively.

http://malaysiakini.com/news/98283
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ilovelyn
post Feb 14 2009, 10:35 PM


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we should take some action against them..
something better then just sending them back to their country..

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shadowglow
post Feb 16 2009, 10:13 PM


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from my observation, im not so sure whether this theory of mine is correct but, most of the females now dislike to use public transport or prefer to use their own transport rather than public due to the increasing number of illegal immigrant here

women nowdays feel insecure by them
but this is just from my observation
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candicelkm
post Feb 23 2009, 11:05 PM


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QUOTE(shadowglow @ Feb 16 2009, 10:13 PM)
from my observation, im not so sure whether this theory of mine is correct but, most of the females now dislike to use public transport or prefer to use their own transport rather than public due to the increasing number of illegal immigrant here

women nowdays feel insecure by them
but this is just from my observation
*
It is not ur observation it is true as many crime is done by immigrant...I myself feel scared taking public transport mostly is crimes...secondly is hygiene as most public transport is not well being maintained...

Most crime like stealing and raping is also done by immigrant. letting immigrant in malaysia is like inviting wolves to our country expecting them to work for us but in fact, they are making more crime and causing the economy downturn!
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babybolster
post Feb 26 2009, 04:42 AM


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I think last time history. that was once chinese population percentage is almost near to malay population, and Some one keep 1 importing foreign workers in to Msia.
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rain_skywalker
post Apr 10 2009, 09:05 AM


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they come to our country to do work that we dont want to do..
so who fault anyway? rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
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Genesis80
post Apr 10 2009, 09:25 AM


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If illegal immigrants or illegal immigrants made legal by bribes (both are considered the same lar) then I would say enforcement would be both the root cause and solution to the problem.
For the genuinely legal, a lot of them do perform tasks that Msians dont want to do and dont deserve to be looked down upon. Most of our ancestors are also not the original inhabitants of this country and came here to find work. blush.gif

As for Msians work ethic compared to theirs, unless you yourself are a business owner or closely connected to one, you wont understand. For the "most part" in industries that have a mix of local and foreign workers, the foreign will out perform the locals. By outperform, i mean the locals will go wild on MC and constant "smoking breaks", while the foreigners do their job. Even if you go the extra mile and provide them with talks and training to counter this, they will MC on that day. doh.gif

As for the crime rate and their contribution towards it, I think there is some article i read before that deals with that. If someone knows where to find it, pls icon_question.gif
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kaiying
post Apr 12 2009, 07:06 PM


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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 3 2008, 12:03 PM)
Their volumes are accumulating. I think already reaches millions.

One day they'll organize a party and pledges for equal rights..

"Kami mahu hak sama rata!!!"

lol
*
hahahhahaha. is so funny!!!! sorry i was reading til pg 2 and i find this reli funny rclxms.gif


Added on April 12, 2009, 7:16 pmok, serious now. hehe. who are we to blame?? hahhaha. good one. cuz i dunno..

i have house maid, i like to be frens with the PATI, or the legal foreign workers. i even went to their house during raya, (yes, they celebrate).. i shared bus with them.. my mom shared food with my myanmar maid, my family gave lum some of stuff to my philipines n indo maids.. hehhee. so, we love foreign workers..

but, i was also robed by a motorcyclist.. but dunno indo or not la.. quite dark but nt so dark. who am i to blamed? myself lo. anyways, that day i had to meet up to discuss something so in conclusion my money all gone.. not alot but 300RM.. very important to me.. then i was shouting n stopping MALAYSIANS cars.. hoping they wil at least pick me up from roadside to tackle the robber, but NO MALAYSIANS stop for me.. until i blocked one car and she only gave me police no... swt. i called police and they did not help me immediately!!!!! i even have to CALL MY FREN to pick me up from road side to police station to MAKE A REPORT??? thats al?????!!!

haihz. my house was also 'hacked' in many times la.. wad to do.. set more security stuff lo..

my point is, not all PATI are bad, cuz not all MALAYSIANS are good either. GOV should improve in order to catch whoever that is in guilt..

This post has been edited by kaiying: Apr 12 2009, 07:16 PM
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WillHung
post Apr 14 2009, 11:51 PM


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I wonder how many of those repatriated came back given the ease of sneaking into this country.

I feel very surrounded by foreigners and there does not seem to be a committed effort by the govt in tackling this problem.

I understand that many of them do jobs that are not done by the locals but given the number of jobless youths who resort to crime and drugs, do you not think these foreigners could have been replaced by them?

The most worrying thing is, there is not even a concrete number on the numbers of these people who are present in this country. It seems like the govt have no control whatsoever on our borders.

The population numbers also go up very quickly from 20 mil to 27 mil now. How much longer can this go on?
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Cryptic
post Apr 15 2009, 01:47 PM


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QUOTE(bob @ Jan 29 2009, 01:33 PM)
illegal immigrants stay here bcoz of greedy rich person. Easy to hire immigrant & if not enough budget, tokey can call police or immigration or just kick out them with paying any single cent.
*
i second this statement, its the greed of low payment for maximum labour emplyoyees is one of the main causes of bringing in immigrants, i am not stating that immigrants are bad, but simple thigns like taking orders in a restaurant or even a coffee shop can be done by malaysians.

secondly, most malaysians doesn't want to take simple jobs like washing dishes, or taking orders for various reasons such as being seen as low class and the jobs offers very low pay.

ps. do note i am not talking about all immigrants and all malaysians.

i say malaysians are to be blamed, their attitude and mentality. secondly the government should be blamed too for ineffective regulation, the whole idea for bringing in immigrants is for good labour but they should have regulate it well. now we are suffering their mess, and they have to clean it up(hopefully they will)
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Perunding
post Apr 15 2009, 03:29 PM


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it all to blame honestly. i am sure we all will be surprised if government release the amount of immigrants in malaysia nowadays.

everywhere u go u will see them. rclxub.gif
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Bardds™
post Apr 15 2009, 04:33 PM


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QUOTE(Perunding @ Apr 15 2009, 03:29 PM)
it all to blame honestly. i am sure we all will be surprised if government release the amount of immigrants in malaysia nowadays.

everywhere u go u will see them.  rclxub.gif
*
Hi...
try come over to Penang's KOMTAR...
it used to be a 'nice' place back in the old days but now,
it feels like as if i'm the foreigner/outsider...
indo's, nepals , viets..but mostly indo's...
and others u name it.
btw i work there...
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Aggroboy
post Apr 15 2009, 05:54 PM


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Immigrants are here to take the jobs that you regular Malaysians can't be bothered to do.

This whole topic is thinly-disguised racism.
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jackpro41
post Apr 17 2009, 12:23 AM


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QUOTE(bob @ Jan 29 2009, 01:33 PM)
illegal immigrants stay here bcoz of greedy rich person. Easy to hire immigrant & if not enough budget, tokey can call police or immigration or just kick out them with paying any single cent.
other thing ..... our authority really lazy to do their work ... so illegal can stay here like heaven
*
maybe u are right for a little portion from what u say.......
but as my point of view............you are not very right at all........

as my experience..........i heard some of the owrker which is illegal immigration to malaysia..........they says:

Malaysian: wei, kamu dah makan ke?
Worker: dah..........kerja susah-susah, untuk ape? tentu la makan.duit boleh cari, makan kena sentiasa ada, kalau tidak, macam mana boleh kerja.....
Malaysian: habis duit macam mana?
Worker: duit dapat guna makan dulu, kalau ada lagi, simpan atau hantar balik kampung.
Malaysian: sendiri cukup ke?
Worker: sikit-sikit la,kampung perlu duit. pasal tu saya datang sini kerja.
Malaysian: o.............

that's what i heard while i was in the toilet.......

they just wanna earn money and get a job at malaysia......cause maybe at their country no job or hard to get a job........so they decided to come to malaysia and get some $$$

actually we all can't blame them as well.........they are just doing their best to earn money........so that their life can be better and for their family as well......which is in poor condition.
^^

the following was just my own opinion...........^^
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Mooshi
post Apr 17 2009, 04:20 PM


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QUOTE(babybolster @ Feb 26 2009, 04:42 AM)
I think last time history. that was once chinese population percentage is almost near to malay population, and Some one keep 1 importing foreign workers in to Msia.
*
In West Malaysia, BN keeps importing Indons. In Sabah, they import Filipinos. There was one issue in Sabah..at one time, shiploads of Filipino are given IC by one of the BN person in charge then....my wife from KK, so i know.


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rajulkabir
post Apr 17 2009, 04:32 PM


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QUOTE(candicelkm @ Feb 23 2009, 11:05 PM)
Most crime like stealing and raping is also done by immigrant.

Do you have any proof of this, or is it just racist xenophobia?

What you say contradicts all published crime statistics, so you must have access to some secret data. Care to share?
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Unspoken
post Apr 18 2009, 01:30 AM


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QUOTE(babybolster @ Feb 26 2009, 04:42 AM)
I think last time history. that was once chinese population percentage is almost near to malay population, and Some one keep 1 importing foreign workers in to Msia.
*
It was about 40% (some reported as low as 37% and as high as 45%) in 1957 and about 80% of the Chinese population are living in major and smaller cities. So, I would leave it open for your imagination when one is calling non-Malay as Pendatang that contributed nothing to Merdeka.
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Emily Yee