Thanks for all the comments made by all the Expert
So in conclusion, don wait anymore. start to accumulate YTL power and YTLpower -WB now !!! as it will compensate each other.

Warrants has one advatange ie. gearing. If the warrant is discouting more than 3-5%, then it is a very useful tools for those cash strapped and less capital investors/traders as you can free up the cash while still enjoying the upside potential of the stock as same as those holding mothershare one.

But if company give capital repayment of special huge dividend then it would be disaster to the warrant holders.

It is a trade off.

Warrant can be a powerful and tool to use in certain situation especially those good company warrant.

But sadly to say, most good and strong company don't issue warrant as they already are financial sound and cash rich, don't need to issue warrant as a way to raise capital instead they are making capital repayment. Haha.

That is one of the issue i concern most before i bought in WB as i worry of capital repayment. But seeing that they are going to expand their power plants and water asset business it seems very unlikely for capital repayment.

Doesn't mean only strong company will give capital repayment right?. If that "strong company" is very aggresive in terms of expanding their business then i don think
they will have capital repayment. My view is for business which need constant growth and high business model capital repayment is not applicable. I can say YTL-power is in this category.

Stock like Amway, digi , bat ... have a high possibility of capital repayment especially Amway which doesn't need high business model.

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Added on August 5, 2008, 9:13 pmJordy,

I think Ytl power buy back the share then will distribute the share back to share holder. It is much more better then dividend (which you have mentioned "higher tax")
By doing so, % holding of the shareholder will increase which means increase in EPS. Kill two birds with one stone. Is a wise decision. Thats y i love YTL power so much.
I can stop trading for at least 5 to 10 years.

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 5 2008, 09:13 PM

Mind you, if the shareholders fund "increases", the EPS would "decrease". I think you got the wrong idea there

YTL power bought back the share. IF i am not wrong now the treasuries of share is 0.17 bil shares.
Thereare two options i think.

i) Distribute back to the shareholder (Which means the % of shareholding is more) Agree?

ii) Cancellation of the shares (Less share which means higher EPS)

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Added on August 5, 2008, 9:57 pmLets take this scenario A and B

Scenario A

Total shares = 100

Shareholder A = 20 shares (20%)

Shareholder B = 20 shares

Shareholders C = 60 shares (20%)


Lets say B sold off all his shares and ytl power bought back and distribute to shareholders

Shareholder A will increase his stakes to become (5 + 20) shares = 25%

Shareholder C with 20% share holding will get (15+ 60) shares = 75%

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Added on August 5, 2008, 10:01 pmScenario B
will be cancelation of the share bought back.

Share holder A = 20 shares (20%)
Share holder B = 20 shares (20%)
Share holder C = 60 shares (60%)

Shareholder B sold off his shares 20% stake.
LETS say ytl power bought back the share and cancel it. Which means thereare 80 shares left in the market. Then directly increase the EPS of the shares.

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 5 2008, 10:01 PM

I think the way you wrote it sounded as though you thought that distributing back as dividend increases the EPS as well. But since you've already clarified the increase as EPS as a different scenario then you are right.

FYI past share dividends are 1 share for every 25 shares held. So it's a 4% tax free dividend.

Your scenarios shown are true. But what I was talking about is the "total shareholders fund", which looks like this:

Total shares: 100
Total earnings: RM100
EPS: RM1

Shareholder A: 20
Shareholder B: 20
Shareholder C: 60

So shareholder B sells his shares, company buys back:

Total shares: 80 (Treasury: 20)
Total earnings: RM100
EPS: RM1.25

Shareholder A: 20
Shareholder C: 60

So as a conclusion, in the first scenario, the company can pay less dividend compared to the second scenario, where the company's EPS increased by RM0.25.

What I am trying to say is, you statement "% holding of the shareholder will increase which means increase in EPS" is wrong. In fact, the correct statement should be ""% holding of the shareholder will increase which means increase in DPS"

This post has been edited by Jordy: Aug 6 2008, 01:28 AM

Not necessary better. It depends.
If those buy back at high price then it doesn't better than giving out dividend.

Eg. If a Company take out Rm2.60 to buy back, but share price plunge to RM1.70, after that distributed to the shareholders as share dividend, then in this scenario it is much better if company initially decide to give back the RM2.60 in cash dividend. Then we can keep the Rm2.60 and buy now at Rm1.80. Which is much much better. Buy back at high price is not good at all and benefit for the shareholders.

Those tax on special dividend can be claimed back by personal depended on your tax bracket under the old imputation system.

Yup. But i think YTL power didn't buy back at high price the range is between RM 1.77 - RM 1.80. One of the company which bought back the share at high price is top glove. It has good business and fundamentally sound but their move in bought back the share in high price is one of the concern of the shareholder now.

That's a wrong assumption. YTLPOWER did in fact bought back shares even when the price spiked after the WB pricing was announced. They bought about 6.5 million shares after the price was pushed up.

Because the company buy the shares on a staggered basis throughout the year, it will more or less average itself out by the end of it. No one and not even this company knows the future and can predict a bottom.

But 6.5 million shares out of the 170 million bought so far since last year is considered small and they still have about 4 months of buying left to accumulate enough for share dividend.

This post has been edited by skiddtrader: Aug 6 2008, 04:21 PM

It has been buying back since back 2 years ago, not just currently.

A lot of company in KLSE did buyback quite high though generally in last 1-2 years time, because of bull run across in this period of time. Edited, even in US!

Anyway, I still prefer they distributed the cash available to the shareholders which is more realistic and straigh forward. If not use the cash to repay borrowing or expand the business further.
Just my personal preference and opinion.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Aug 6 2008, 05:01 PM

Yap. It is base on personal preference like what you said. For you, you may prefer dividend. For me of course dividend is good but i think that buy creating net worth of the share (bonus issue through share buy back ) is good also as it can avoid tax . But actually can claim back also when you declare your income tax as i did before. But for me it is one of the gem in KLSE. May i know anyone here is YTLPOWER fans? beside me

This is the latest news of YTL power regarding their bids for senoko power plant.


http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1181799

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Added on August 7, 2008, 1:03 pmWith an electricity generating capacity of 3,300 megawatts, Senoko is larger than the 2,670MW Tuas Power that was sold to China's Huaneng Group for S$4.2 billion (RM10 billion) in March.

3,300 Megawatts is almost 3 times the capicity of YTL power generation in malaysia.


In the financial year ended March 31 2008, Senoko had revenue of RM6 billion and earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation of S$245 million RM586 million.

Market participants have estimated that the sale of Senoko, which generates about 30 per cent of Singapore's electricity, could fetch around US$3 billion and that the winning bidder could need debt financing of up to US$2 billion (RM6.5 billion)-equivalent to back its offer.

Pricing is expected to be from 100 basis points to 150 basis points, and will ultimately depend on Senoko's debt multiples and enterprise value as well as the sponsor's financial strength.


The financing's structure is expected to include a bridging loan followed by a non-recourse takeout facility - similar to Huaneng Power International's facility to back its S$4.2 billion acquisition of the Tuas Power Ltd genco, the first of Temasek's power divestments, earlier this year.


Huaneng in March got a S$2.25 billion (RM5.4 billion) 18-month bridge arranged by BNP, Calyon, DBS, Fortis, OCBC and SMBC via Sinosing Power Pte Ltd.

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Added on August 11, 2008, 12:58 pmAny one got updates regarding the Singapore Senoko plant latest bidding results? I personally think TATA power will get the bid.

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 11 2008, 12:58 PM

Hard to say. What makes you say TATA will get it and not Mitsubishi or even YTLPOWER?

Just my six sense

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Added on August 12, 2008, 10:04 pmSix sense

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Added on August 15, 2008, 8:18 amhttp://www.investlah.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1978.0

How do you all look at this? Possible? Pls comment

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Added on August 15, 2008, 8:19 amhttp://www.investlah.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1978.0

Pls comment.

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 15 2008, 08:19 AM

As I've commented on the Stock Market thread. YTLPOWER will not be privatised.

Reason being, although YTLPOWER is a steady income earner, it would be more profitable if it stays public company because it can raise capital much more easier. And raising capital from new shares issue is much more cheaper than taking a loan from a bank.

As long as it can still raise capital, it can always expand.

Yup agree with you. Thats is the main reason behind y they want to be listed becos they need to raise capital. But some of the company once they don need to expand anymore they will privatize as they don wan to share the profit. Few example here that are going to privatize:

KFC
MAXIS
GCE
Astro
....

Thats y big fish always win in the end. They will neglect the minor shareholder once they don need them anymore. HOW pitiful

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Added on August 16, 2008, 8:48 pmYup agree with you. Thats is the main reason behind y they want to be listed becos they need to raise capital. But some of the company once they don need to expand anymore they will privatize as they don wan to share the profit. Few example here that are going to privatize:

KFC
MAXIS
GCE
Astro
....

Thats y big fish always win in the end. They will neglect the minor shareholder once they don need them anymore. HOW pitiful

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 16 2008, 08:48 PM

Another point of privatisation is to take advantage of the constant cashflow of the privatised company (if the company is cash rich).

If one company is cash rich, but even as major shareholders, they can't move the cash easily in those public company (for whatever purposes, inter-company etc). But once it is a private company, then yes, one can utilise the cash of it much easily without violating any law.

I think this stock will not climb is near term. Maybe got to wait for years . Should not enter so much that day

YTLPOWER is supposed to be a dividend stock. It does not go up and down so much unless something happen lke the windfall tax on IPP.

You can slowly accumulate also no harm if your goal is for long term investment. But if you are hoping for a sudden uptrend, I highly doubt it will happen this year unless they can be exempted from the windfall tax or win the bid for Senoko Power.

But if you think the price will jump in near future, it's better to buy the WB warrants instead.

This post has been edited by skiddtrader: Aug 18 2008, 02:04 AM

I don like slowly accumulate, as i prefer a bit timing (when i see the price is right then buy it one go) to save the service charge. If you buy one lot of YTLPOWER the service charge is about RM 40++ PER lot. Where as if you buy more, i calculated which is less than RM 20.

If i not mistaken the minimum charges is RM 40++ per single transaction day.