Wanna ask the 1138 sqft Brio apartments going for RM 400K++ is kinda overpriced for Puchong? If hold for rental yields, do you guys think can fetch > RM 2100 to cover for P+I????

just went to the showhouse in puchong. R2 already 75-80% sold. the remaining units are the bigger units. Even the 1138 has almost been sold out and its not officially launched yet.

R2 official launch mid dec 2009 while est completion end 2012

After attending one of those property seminars, someone correctly pointed out that Malaysia property is still relatively cheap if you compare with its peers in asia like singapore, japan, hong kong or even bankgkok, vietnam or china. Apparently, there is a fair bit to go before we even get anywhere near the prices of properties in Singapore and Hong Kong.

But i'm quite sceptical if SW positions itself as a high end enclave for coz if i'm not mistaken the demographics of Puchong is one of middle to middle upper income people. To position it as a high end place ala Bangsar, KLCC, or Mont Kiara might be difficult to pull in that kind of crowd/people. Further to that IOI's boulevard is also not considered a sucess story.

I disagree SW will be a runaway sucess. Below are the reasons:-
1) Special mall nearby Puchong - got Sunway Pyramid mar.
2) The income demographics for Puchong is mainly lower middle to middle income earners only (majority) and cannot be compared to places like Subang Jaya or 1U. I notice somebody compare the prices of escalating homes to rising income level. This is wrong. Many of the owners of puchong houses especially those in Kinrara and Puteri are first batch house buyers for own stay. That means they bought the houses at RM 4++k only. Even if the houses inflates to RM 700k does not mean household income for these people increase propotionately. Remember, many of them bought for own stay!
3) If u rely on the 20% of Puchong people to go to yr mall, sure die lar! How to support so many shops? No doubt (at least for the 1st year) there will be a lot of people. (Coz new mar). After that people will start to disperse. Out of the 20% how many will actually buy stuff? i guarantee many of them window shopping only. If SW continues to position themselves as a "high class" mall, they will suffer in the long run. See note no. 2. The mentality will be shop in Giant or Tesco and window shop in SW. (maybe good business for cafe lar). For branded stuff go sunway pyramid or Mid valley
4) SP Setia does not have enough experience running a commercial property. IOI does. Some argue SP has malls doing well in setia alam/eco park. But u must remember setia alam/ecopark is a enclosed area where there are not much competition. Puchong has subang jaya and IOI part of puchong within stone throw distance
5) SW Concept is good. but like all concepts it gets old after a while and once new malls are built. The question is can they sustain the traffic. Based on their current portfolio and experience, i doubt so.

I disagree with yr rationale

1. My definition of lower middle and middle income group earners based on current inflation and escalating prices is as below:-
Lower Middle - combined HHI of up to RM 5,000 p.m.
Middle Income - combined HHI of up to RM 10,000 p.m.
Upper Middle Income - combined HHI of up to RM 15,000 p.m.
Upper class (elite) Income - combined HHI of above RM 15,000 p.m.

2. Like I say, most demographics of Puchong are for OWN STAY. Sure there are people flipping properties but the % is not significant

3. If u rely on those staying in Bungalow and Semi-D for business, sure die! How many household are there staying in Semi-d/bungalow? How many units of Semi-D/Bungalow are there in Puchong? More than the terrace houses? Are u sure?

4. Subang is such a big place. the RM 100-150k is only located in certain parts of Subang. Or should I say, the demographics of Subang represents a more mature demographics with many in the middle income group (defination above). Same goes for 1 U.

I'm being sacarstic. SW's main bulk of client will come from people living in terrace house (if that's how u want to segregate them) and not solely cater to Semi-D and Bungalow.

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Added on June 1, 2011, 12:29 pmThe point I'm arguing here is you are referring to Puchong as a low to middle income group. Back to the income bracket you mentioned above (Lower middle income up to 5,000 p.m) which is contradicting to the facts that 70% of Puchongites are earning well above RM 7,000 p.m so you shouldn't classified them as lower middle group but instead they are belongs to middle to upper income group.

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Added on June 1, 2011, 12:06 pm

I did not say in any of my post (pls recheck if u don't believe me) that Puchong consists of "low to middle income group". What i said was they make up "lower middle and middle income group" there is a difference between " lower income group" and "lower middle income group". Google if u still don't understand!

This post has been edited by mercury8400: Jun 1 2011, 12:29 PM

Agree to a certain extent. However, most demographics (i forgot the source, saw it sometime back last year) of Puchong is majority made up of young MARRIED couples looking to set-up their homes away from the ultra expensive d'sara and other expensive areas. As such, the mindset of these people is that they have a young family to feed and hence would "try" to refrain from cafe, bars etc, buying ultra expensive clothes, or just spending for the sake of spending, so to speak. Unlike the UNMARRIED young people between the age of 25-35 which are mainly found in certain parts of D'sara, D'sara Perdana? , Mont Kiara, etc.

[quote=1ullaby,Jun 1 2011, 12:56 PM]
That's a old cliche of young married couples bro If anything, unless either party is non-working, it's easy to calculate how much disposable income a couple can have, assuming both professional degrees, age 28 worked for 5 yrs or more, EASILY above 4k per pax even for the lowest gaji employee, r u saying that they will b so prudent in spending knowing that the only way their income can go is.. Well up?

Not really. Rough estimation as below based on yr assumption that each earns RM4k.

Husband and wife total combined income = RM 8k (RM4k each) p.m.
EPF contribution = RM 880p.m. (based on 11% of RM8k)
7 years installment for 2 Car(RM 60k each) = RM800 per car, per month X 2 = RM1600 p.m.
Petrol = RM 50 per full tank. Let's say 1 tank a week =RM 200 p.m., per car, so RM 400 for 2 car.
Parking = RM 100.00 X 2 car = RM 200 p.m.
Toll - Lets say RM50 for 2 car for 1 month
Housing instalment based on a RM 600k house over 30 years at 6% interest rates = RM 2,800 p.m.
Breakfasat & Lunch, eat out say RM 20 for both meals X 5 days X 4 weeks = RM 400 per person X 2 person = RM 800
Groceries =RM 50 per week X 4 weeks = 200
Assume Sat and Sun Never eat out. Eat at home so = RM 0

Total Earned p.m.= RM 8,000
Total Spent p.m. = RM 6,930

(The cost is a very conservative one, not taking into consideration annual holidays, kids, car accidents, entertainment, going out to eat on sat and sun, etc)

Enough ka? I don't think so

Actually that's base on RM450k not RM600k. typo. A RM 600k 30 year loan at 6% interest rates is around RM3,800 p.m.. Yes these are decent core survival assumptions.

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Added on June 1, 2011, 3:42 pmAbout the earnings part again, its yr assumption that most people are earning >RM 4k. It actually depends on industry, level (or designation), etc. HOWEVER, the AVERAGE person at 28-35 with 5 years experience is earning between RM 4-5k p.m. (that's not to say there isn't, however the AVERAGE do)

This post has been edited by mercury8400: Jun 1 2011, 03:42 PM

What are you trying to explained here? Living standard is high and those household income of 8k is not enough to survive in Puchong? And you always insist that Puchong consist of those that is young couples which earning barely survive their basic living? So in another words you mean those Puchongites is a poor residents which will not afford to have a decent lifestyle? Those are your thoughts but have you really check around the Puchong and understand what is their profession, their income and etc? So you are having a better views and study on what the SW will become? Then I think you must be a millionaire by now as you can see better than the developers...congrats!

Precisely. Living std/inflation is running away while salary levels (including promotion, increment, etc) is not keeping up. But that's a discussion for another day. Point is SW has to take into consideration these points before positioning their product. Too "high class' and u risk alienating a lot of people in Puchong (who might go there to makan angin or makan-makan) but could not keep the high end retailers in business. If they position to the middle income group, they risk competing with IOI Mall. SO they have to get the mix right!

[quote=twincharger07,Jun 1 2011, 11:11 PM]
After reading 1 page.. I only can say lifestyle and income has little to no relation in today's society..

Talking about income and income group is abit "waste gas" IMHO...

- ppl nowadays own things that they cannot afford, buy cars that they cant afford, owning a lifestyle that they cant afford..- Do you think youngsters sitting in Starbucks earn 8k a month, some spend the $$ that they dont even earn..
- SW wont stop ppl from entering bcos you dun own 8k permonth... they dont care if you eat and dine with credit card or debt... looking at 1U, pyramid and midvalley, flooded with youngster that dont own 8k/month..

The point in bold is so true. I believe a lot of young people spend money they could not afford. It's a matter of time before reality (and the debt collectors) come knocking on thier door. Don't forget, Malaysia is relatively save from the recent financial crisis. Not many people were being retrenched. But in the future who know? Greece is in deep shit and China's overheating its economy. When it all crashes and tons of people get retrenched in M'sia, all these people will be the first to go brankrupt.

Rich daddy and mommy may not be able to liquidate their assets in time to save dear son/daughters.

I agree with Pai. The main reason why most of you guys argue that way is because most of you already have vested interest and hence adopt the defensive mentality despite the obvious truth (not just refering to SW). Kinda like if someone critize yr child, no matter how bad you think he/she is, you will also defend... We on the other hand view this with an objective mind because we neither hate nor love SW.

No. i agree with pai's opinion, not the name calling part. I have no bones to pick with anyone, assuming they do not have a bone to pick with me....

Not really, u know. I have a relative staying im mont kiara condo also condo kena ransack. even wif all the camera around also cannot trace...all they can see is 2 men wearing black headmask...

I believe LKS departure will be a matter of time....when rather than if....just like Robert Kuok. As usual PNB or whatever gov linked companies will screw things up badly.... It may not affect SP or Setiawalk reputation immediately since its already nearing completion but in the future who knows...kinda like SIme Darby homes....everybody in the market knows Sime charges a premium for their property vis-a-vis the materials used.

It's also not fair to the residence just because SW owners wanna get CF earlier without consideration for the traffic congestion that they might face... and complain you did!

That's right.
The property market prices is currently being dictated by developers and buyers (whether for good or bad)
Developers keep charging higher and higer prices upon seeing their peers/competitors projects are so well received.
Problem is they keep doing it (rising prices) one development to another like inflating a baloon and see when it'll pop.
Till now there somehow is still strong demand for new properties despite the already sky high prices.
Bankers can't "see" the ceiling prices hence they don't "understand" the property market and rely mainly on valuers who, in turn, rely on historical /previous sub-sale transaction for units around the area to derive a valuation. Unfortunately those figures rarely if ever match the prices developers charge for their new development.