Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed
7 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 7 >Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

Financial Is property going to drop?, General property price discussion

views
     
Onemorething
post Oct 27 2010, 01:20 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(Goody2Shoes @ Oct 27 2010, 12:06 PM)
I don't know why there is so much doom and gloom here. As long as you're not one of the lemmings, the property bubble will not affect you. This is also a blessing in disguise, take for instance the glove/rubber comp. from last year till now. Basically, a bubble and there's a price correction going on now. The same thing will happen to real estate. As long you don't directly participate in the acts of lunacy people are doing, you are fine. Dubai and the US property market 2 years ago was a good lesson but I guess people are too blind by greed.

In addition, this would be one of the best time to buy property stocks, just remember to bail out when it has reach it's height and don't be greedy. Can't wait for the bubble to burst! And buy from auctions!
*
Someone understands what's going on! Good comment!

If I may add to this, if you wish to take profits best to do so now, move into property stocks as suggested and sell as close to the top as possible. You wont be able to time the top but close and being a stock is liquid unlike a home that needs to find a buyer and close during the downturn.
Onemorething
post Nov 5 2010, 01:53 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(Iceman74 @ Nov 5 2010, 01:42 PM)
this time bank won't join the party anymore, let see developers can use their brain juice more on develop new trick hmm.gif
*
You guys need to put all the pieces together here, it's all in support of the bubble. You can be part of it in it's final stage or be smart and watch it's demise.
Onemorething
post Nov 9 2010, 09:20 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(prody @ Nov 9 2010, 08:17 AM)
Property market doesn't react so fast.
*
Malaysia will only be marginally effected by government controls if any. The bubble is in, plain and simple, and is driven not by domestic momentum but the global markets. Valuations in the stock market in Malaysia are only moving up based on the value of the MYR.

The RE market in KL and KV prime areas will correct based on the next downturn which is unavoidable. Think Global, be proactive Local.
Onemorething
post Nov 9 2010, 05:17 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
I believe the top is in. There is always more fish to fry for the developers and ways to encourage the last rounds of buyers to part with thier money. Watch the listings for your area, look for the first sign which has already occurred and that being a 30-50% rise in listings and a 20-30% drop in sales and you know things only have one way to go!
Onemorething
post Nov 10 2010, 07:48 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(cranx @ Nov 10 2010, 02:41 AM)
Issue 22 of Property Buyer. (unsure who is the author but most probably one working for the vested parties) laugh.gif
*
Note my comment above about the last phase of buyers and the enablers looking to squeeze out the last sales possible as the top is in! This is an example of it, and there are more to come such as incentives such as rebates, free ipad, cash back. The interesting thing to note is the government has stepped in slightly with a message but banks are still hungry for loans as RE growth is key to their stakeholders via share returns.

Look for more insanity to come but I can tell you that those high end bungalows in Bangsar and Dsara Heights are being listed more and more with very little transactions. They are about 30% overpriced and some (likely overleveraged) are dropping prices every week.

Remember, you will never time the top to sell or time the bottom to buy. The very few with foresight and real confidence will be ready.

Are you ready?
Onemorething
post Nov 15 2010, 12:33 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(ericyong @ Nov 15 2010, 10:54 AM)
I posted this on my blog last week.

KL Property Markets To Remain Strong

Recently, there has been plenty of writeups and articles, as well as remarks and opinions from various industry players with regards to the Klang Valley office markets.

To me, I believe that the Klang Valley office markets is expected to remain stable, and in fact, considerably quite bullish, at least until the 1st half of next year. My views has been influenced by the strong economic indicators recently such as the ETP, of which the Government has identified over 130 Entry Point Projects (EPP) to generate business, investments as well as job opportunities.

One project that has been generating a lot of resistance from the mass public is the 100 storey Warisan Merdeka. This, although it was announced by the PM Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak in the Budget 2011, is not a budget allocated project - instead it will be undertaken by the Permodalan Nasional Berhad (PNB). It is expected to start in 2011, and to be completed by 2015, with about 2,200,000 sf of nett lettable space to offer.

While many have objected this project, I for one think that this project will further transform that part of Kuala Lumpur into an established financial and business hub, making Kuala Lumpur a much more attractive location to invest in.

user posted image

Looking at various tables and statistics, I believe that Kuala Lumpur's average occupancy rates are at very good and encouraging figures; I see that all areas, including the Prime Grade A+ offices, Grade A offices, as well as the secondary offices in areas such as the Golden Triangle, the rest of Kuala Lumpur's business district, Damansara Heights etc are all registering more than 92% average occupancy rate.

Rental rates meanwhile shows pretty impressive rates too.

In the Golden Triangle, the Prime A+ office buildings, namely the Petronas Twin Towers and its other counterparts in the same area are fetching an average of above RM9psf! The Grade A offices are doing a good RM6psf, with the secondary offices fetching about RM4.50psf averagely. At the outer locations, the offices are fetching averagely between RM3.80-RM4.70psf, which I believe is an encouraging figure.

While rentals have been good, the sales market have seen some interesting transactions. Aseana Properties Ltd sold their jewel in Mont Kiara, the 1Mont Kiara (1MK) to a real estate fund related to Li Ka-shing's Cheung Kong Group in Hong Kong for a whopping RM333million. A Singaporean investor bought a chunk of the Crest Worldwide offices for about RM80million.

On top of that, the REITs also have been assisting and pushing the office/commercial markets.

Recently listed Sunway REIT worths about RM3.8billion worth of assets; and early this month, announced that it is shopping around for new assets and buildings, worth at least RM500million apiece to acquire in order to expand its asset size. It has set a target to double its assets base within the next 5 years. Pretty interesting isnt it?

So, in my opinion, the next time someone tells you that the office markets in Kuala Lumpur are hitting a bubble, reply him this - perhaps you dont think so, and why not sit back and let him be proven wrong. =PKL Office Markets To Remain Strong.KL Property
*
Good take on the local market if you look at the fundamentals but it's not what is going to happen locally that will determine the direction of RE but what happens on a global scale. I agree long term on Malaysia's future but not for the next 3-5 years. Correction will come!
Onemorething
post Nov 19 2010, 11:07 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
Quote from Canadian RE expert - Canada is noted as one of the big bubble countries yet to pop!

Sales fall first. Prices later. Usually a lot later. For example the US housing market peaked in the autumn of 2005 in terms of sales, but prices did not crest until two years later. The reason is simple. There are always people ready to buy a house who don’t follow the capital markets, monetary policy or leading indicators. Instead they have hormones, emotions and parents screaming at them to grow a set and get a mortgage.

So sales may decline, but prices stick. And as fewer foolish buyers show up with offers, more homeowners take their properties off the market. So listings fall (they are down 14% across the country from last year) while prices don’t (they’re within 1% of 2009 levels). This stage can last for some time – maybe a year, even – until economic conditions change, forcing people to sell their homes.

Those could include a moribund economy in which families have too much debt, rising interest rates or taxes, another financial crisis, or it could be house-rich retiring boomers realizing all of the above. Whatever. Once real estate has achieved unaffordable levels, and people realize it is both overpriced and vulnerable, then falling sales become falling prices.
Onemorething
post Nov 24 2010, 11:56 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(Pai @ Nov 23 2010, 05:36 PM)
There's a fine line that separates the bold n the bodoh  tongue.gif
*
Simply and well said Pai!
Onemorething
post Nov 28 2010, 07:50 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Nov 26 2010, 03:17 PM)
Property oversupply of RM 5.3 bil, take up rate of new properties only 20.2%, household debt at record high RM 560 bil

44,954 residential units under construction

November 25, 2010
by Dr. Dzul

Property Overhang as reported by Napic (National Property Informational Centre) for the third quarter of last year was supposedly a cause for alarm. Then there was an oversupply of 20,286 residential, 5,450 shop and 619 industrial units worth a whopping RM5.3 billion.

Of the 6,401 new residential units launched during the third quarter, which was a far cry from the 14,588 units launched in the previous corresponding quarter, only 20.2% found buyers.

If the RM5.3 billion overhang failed to deter the enthusiasm of the NEM planners, let’s consider what is in the pipeline.

The Finance Ministry also reported another 44,954 residential, 4,605 shop and 794 industrial units were under construction as of the third quarter. Projects approved but yet to be implemented comprised another 14,993 residential, 1,011 shop and 872 industrial units.

The massive oversupply constitutes a major financial burden on developers and their financiers, most of whom are financial institutions. More recently, Napic’s Property Overhang reports show that unsold properties in Malaysia rose to 22.6 per cent of new launches in the second quarter of this year, from 19.5 per cent in the fourth quarter of last year. For Kuala Lumpur, unsold properties rose to 16.1 per cent from 15.8 per cent, while for Selangor it rose to 14.6 per cent from 12.4 per cent.

Quite ironically while a glut is emerging, prices of residential property have surged by as much as 35% in the past year especially in property hotspots e.g Penang and KL, far above income growth and giving rise to concerns that the market is becoming unsustainable and a property bubble forming. Checks on developments completed this year also show that vacancy rates remain at 50 per cent or higher.

While prices keep going up, the economic returns continue to decline. This, in return, contributes towards distorting the economy and plunging the country ever deeper into a frightening ‘economic bubble’.

On the back of the emerging property bubble, the revelation of a ballooning household debt, comprising mainly house mortgages, cars loans and personal financing such as credit cards, debit cards which stood at a record high of RM560 billion as at Aug 31, 2010 from Bank Negara Malaysia data is surely a cause for alarm.

The rapid growth in household debts now poses a threat to the economy and exacerbates the vulnerability and instability to the financial sector.

It is worth noting that our household debt to GDP ratio shot up to 76% and is the highest in Asia, except for Japan. But Japan’s per capital income is US$32,700 per month in 2009, while Malaysia’s average income is less than RM2000 per month.

According to a note by CIMB Research, the ratio of household debt to personal disposal income hit 140.4 % in 2009- higher than Singapore 105.3% and the US 123.3%. This means Malaysians owe double the amount they earn.

Credit Counselling and Debt Management Agency (AKPK) reported a total of 50,361 cases enrolled in debt management program with 10.6% of them who could not pay their credit card debt while 74.3% had repayment problem with housing loans, car loans and credit cards outstanding.

AKPK’s CEO Mohamed Akwal Sultan said some 44% of the individuals who join the programme belong to the 30 to 40 age group. Some individuals start to have repayment issues when they are even younger because many of them do not have salaries that commensurate with their lifestyle. High car prices, due to protectionist policy of the government doesn’t help while most are already in debt as soon as after graduation because of loan repayment for their studies ie the PTPTN. The problems worsen when they hit their 30s and beyond.

Since Malaysians tend to have short memories and have a penchant for the denial syndrome, it’s pertinent to remind our political leaders and planners of the costly deflation of the property bubble in the aftermath of the 1997/98 regional financial crisis.

When the property bubble burst in 1998, the banking system was left with RM51.8 billion worth of non-performing loans (NPLs), forcing the government of Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad to form Danaharta Bhd to assume the NPLs and Danamodal to help recapitalise the banks.

Danaharta subsequently assumed NPLs worth over RM50 billion and overnight, became the largest real estate owner in the country with assets valued at RM3.63 billion while Danamodal injected RM11.7 billion to revitalize and recapitalise the banks.

Going by the orgy of real estate developments in recent years, it is clear that both the regulators and the developers have forgotten the 1997/98 lessons or have not learnt much. Notably the government is discouraged to put a higher real property gains tax (RPGT) and restrictive loan-to-value (LTV) caps as it will be a deterrent to foreign direct investments and high net worth individuals. Besides, a higher LTV for 3rd home buyers of 70:30, may not be complied with after all, by the financial institutions.
*
Wow, someone in this country actually knows what is going on. While our market can decelerate quickly based on the global negativity as the catalyst, it is clearly shown here we domestically have serious flaws not unlike many of the developed nations. This is an excellent warning sign as again when sediment turns you will never time it. Once the vicious cycle takes hold nothing will sell as all will be waiting for the bottom.

Not a question of IF but WHEN! I still say the next 12-24 months will tell the tail.

This post has been edited by Onemorething: Nov 28 2010, 07:52 AM
Onemorething
post Nov 29 2010, 08:23 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(Evera @ Nov 29 2010, 08:05 AM)
The thing is that with building material cost and petrol price going up, how much can it actually drop? It won't be a rock bottom like some suggested and with good location, there will always be a certain value towards the property. And more.... the human population are increasing. And a drop???
*
Yes correct but you fail to understand that when RE is unaffordable and in a bubble these factors are not critical as with a stable affordable market. Furthermore, where do you see the demand coming from for GDP in export markets? I believe we are going to see an extended period of 5-7 years of low demand and therefore a period of DEFLATION as manipulated inflation over the years through money printing is ending.

If this is true, the price of oil and materials will go down as like RE, they are overvalued as well and only driven by demand.




Onemorething
post Nov 29 2010, 03:54 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(AVFAN @ Nov 29 2010, 10:21 AM)
Being blindly pessimistic or being an eternal optimist is not helpful. There are good reports and data to read...

There is no denying that household debt and housing debt has shot up very high. Are incomes rising fast? Where is gdp growth coming from? Not big exports income or foreign money coming in, but mainly consumer spending! People are spending and speculating with a lot of debt. Pray hard for 2nd and 3rd layers of bigger debt to absorb this first layer! tongue.gif

Just think about this - how is it possible all of a sudden without little else happening, mediocre props look good, so many can pay 50% more? Or is it just speculative forces, with one layer of debt piling on another. Some props will hold out better than others, of course. Devlprs, banks and loyars surely making a killing now - they are the thrilled by how greedy everyone is. The poor guy who havn't bought his house is not thrilled at all.
*
When RE becomes an Emotional purchase and continues for some time so that it is unaffordable then you know the bubble is in place.
Onemorething
post Dec 2 2010, 10:15 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 2 2010, 10:00 AM)
The maximum bracket for the 27% tax is applied after 100K i think not 150K. Meaning if your salary is about RM 10,000 a month, most probably you are already in the maximum tax bracket. The same as those who are earning about RM100,000 a month. Does that sound fair to you?  vmad.gif
*
The cost of living is very low in Malaysia if you exclude KL, KV and throw in Penang. I am simply amazed at how much the avg. Malaysian is in debt at 140%+ salary (this is highest in the world right now) and how the banksters even here are manipulating the average person or family into taking on more debt.

This my friends is the norm in developed nations with high income, not for developing one's. This is what you really need to be careful of and consider moving forward.

I've lived in HK and enjoyed the 17% and considered SING due to the same low tax rate however the cost of living IS extreme and right now the cost of everyday staples like food, fuel and electricity is going through the roof and is due to continue for at least a few more years.

We have seen 10-12% increases in food in KL supermarkets (the major chains) as well.

If you sum it all up, Malaysia is in a great position moving forward, but only by those who carefully monitor their output (spending) and stay liquid at least for the next 2-3 years. Great opportunities will arise but unfortunately at the loss of the average over debted guy next door.

This post has been edited by Onemorething: Dec 2 2010, 10:18 AM
Onemorething
post Dec 4 2010, 08:45 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(nkhong @ Dec 4 2010, 02:35 AM)
Hahaha, because malaysia tax is very interesting topic, every year inflation 5%. Ten years ago taxable income is 2.5K, today taxable income still 2.5k and I believe ten years later in Malaysia taxable income will still 2.5k, so maybe during that time almost everyone needs to pay tax later. I think SG revise/reduce the tax rate every 2 to 3 years.

And maybe this is not outside of topic, by discussing the tax we can see actually there are many high income earners in malaysia ... e.g. zuiko407 and cybermaster98 ..  smile.gif  ... so I am strongly belief that malaysia property not going to drop in near future ...  smile.gif
*
The taxation issue here has been brought up due to the unaffordability of RE for the average Malaysian. It all works hand in hand. HK has lowered taxes as well and this is based on government surplus of funds. It assumes giving money back to the people however it is only in support of the high income earners to stay and accept inflationary increases in which many cannot see. The wet market prices get squeezed slightly, the middle class get hit hard the wealthy have a break even vs. tax savings.

This is the way governments work people!

There are NOT enough high income earners to keep the increases in property market!
There are NEVER enough foreign investors to prop up the property market! CHINA
There will DEFINATELY be a correction in RE given the unaffordability!
The CATALYST will be many based on global issues, not domestic challenges!
The wealthy will NEVER time the top and therefore miss the gains that could have been realized today!
The average malaysian will ultimately LOOSE in this game especially with one of the highest debt-income ratio in the world!

Welcome to the hiccups of a developing nation and it's leaders!

Do you honestly think that a decade of unemployment at 10%+ (real unemployment of almost 20%) in the USA will not hit CHINA hard in the stimulated bubble they are already in? EURO zone is just a bad and Canada in AUS in the largest RE bubbles in the world. The west is coming to a 30 year loose monetary demise!

Think Global, act Local!
Onemorething
post Dec 6 2010, 04:05 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
China's credit bubble on borrowed time as inflation bites
The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to take out protection against the risk of a sovereign default by China as one of its top trade trades for 2011. This is a new twist.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...tion-bites.html

"It is sobering that even a slight cooling of China’s credit growth led to economic contraction in Malaysia and Thailand in the third quarter, and sharp slowdowns across Asia. Japan’s economy will almost certainly contract this quarter.

Albert Edwards from Societe General said the OECD’s leading indicators are signalling a "downturn" for Asia’s big five (Japan, Korea, China, India, and Indonesia). The China indicator composed by Beijing’s National Bureau of Statistics has fallen almost as far as it did at the onset of the 2008 crash.

"I remain convinced we are witnessing a bubble of epic proportions which will burst – catching investors as unawares as the bursting of the Asian bubbles of the mid-1990s. Ignore these indicators at your peril," he said"
Onemorething
post Dec 6 2010, 04:43 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
If you really want to put it all into perspective then I suggest you read this. It is long but worth every word!

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...of-chicken.html

As for the post above, come on now, there is no consumer demand for export and domestic prices are going through the roof in China.

The USA printing press will continue as long as the USD is the reserve currency!

Furthermore, everything is priced in USD and the US will only be in the business of bankrupting the world and/or creating ways to start Wars, whether conventional or trade, take your pick!



This post has been edited by Onemorething: Dec 6 2010, 04:46 PM
Onemorething
post Dec 13 2010, 09:00 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(value_investor @ Dec 12 2010, 04:59 PM)
It reminds me of "Dot Com Mania" of 1990s ... irrational prices without strong fundamental backing in profits (or rental yield in the case of property). So ultimately it will fall down to earth, just like the dot coms did!

------------
PropWall
*
Yes and with it you can take the position that governments will support their positions of "healthy environment" until it is too late! This is something always true in pre-crash history. In RE though when unaffordable it means emotional buying and there will be nothing the government can do to help when it goes the other way.


Added on December 13, 2010, 9:15 amLook at this excellent interview with Chanos who is the #1 short seller in the world. He makes excellent points about CHINA realestate.

Listen to the export and GDP numbers and demand for at least this blog the need for building materials.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...ll-get-his.html

I would look at the history for Asian Financial Crisis, and now look at replacing "Financial" with "Real Estate"!

This post has been edited by Onemorething: Dec 13 2010, 09:15 AM
Onemorething
post Dec 17 2010, 08:33 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(maxforce @ Dec 17 2010, 07:21 AM)
The ugly side of capitalism and free market tongue.gif
*
The ugly side of PONZI scheme in which government, developers, banks, RE brokers/agents, Main Stream Media and even parents / friends / relatives all the enablers!

See it for what it is and navigate carefully. Quite simply if you read all my posts it's about affordability and when affordability is no longer the case, bubble mentality and emotional markets take over. We are now rated one of the highest KL and parts of KV for the most unaffordable property in the world matched with recent news of being in debt by 143% of our income.

Something will give.

When I can rent for 40% of buying and take the 60% and re-invest with even moderate and LIQUID returns, WHY WOULD I BUY???


Malaysia is only lifted by the efforts of the US EURO and ASIA to print (money) their way out of the inevitable.

This is called medicating the patient but when the medication runs out (no bullets left in the gun), it's going to be an absolute mess.

ETA on bursting, 12-18 months! Watch CHINA my friends!
Onemorething
post Dec 18 2010, 11:44 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Dec 17 2010, 10:23 AM)
properties in australia has been escalate more than 50% recently, there just similar here in malaysia, landed properties are very expensive unless you get far away from town, price in prime area are super duper high as well.

if you say their amenities is far better then i have agree with you.
*
AUS is melting right now starting with the Goldcoast and Brisbane, down over 7% avg in last quarter. It's an emotional bubble which will again come to and end but slowly as again governments go all in with stimulus.


Added on December 18, 2010, 11:54 am
QUOTE(Bobby C @ Dec 17 2010, 09:17 AM)

*
Well Bobby, I see you know a thing or two about how the markets may play out. The smart investor knows when to take profits and move into new opportunities that are adversely effected. You have two choices, be savvy and actually get educated on how to invest or play the game of RE is the best of the bad bunch.

End game - the avg. family struggles to buy, then on the way down they struggle to service their loans, house/car/credit cards as Malaysian numbers suggest.

Smart sellers exit early, not so smart know enough to lower the price quickly to grab those still in denial, and for the rest, it doesnt end well.

I'm not calling for a collaspe here, but a slow downward spiral continuing for many years as we are at the top quite frankly in everything.

It will come down to not who made returns, but who protected them the best!!!!

This post has been edited by Onemorething: Dec 18 2010, 11:54 AM
Onemorething
post Dec 21 2010, 09:49 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(Bobby C @ Dec 19 2010, 01:43 AM)
I like your word:- 'When I can rent for 40% of buying and take the 60% and re-invest with even moderate and LIQUID returns, WHY WOULD I BUY???'

If 30% of the population can think the same, landlords like us will be even happier man. If fact, many are already very happy even before the recent property spike. Tat why the very happy one usually keep to themselve and dont even happy to waste time participate here in the forum.

Putting 40% of investment sum into rental?! Tat's so call 'smart' investor? Come on, you can do better than tat.  whistling.gif

Mind you there are distinct line that seperate so call smart investors cp to smart speculators. Smart investors looking at mid/longer term game plan. They will sit back relax after game plan fall into place. While so call smart speculators constantly worries abt global crisis, constantly swifting their funds  around. Tell us since when there is no crisis aft 1997 or even before tat?

It is all abt how u manage your risk if worst case scenario happened.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
You've interpruted this incorrectly. Rule #1 - No more than 40% of your net worth should be in RE ownership! This will help you balance your portfolio in normal times. These are false ecomony times, so the RE is highly speculative unless you purchased 4 years+ ago in KL KV.

A good ecomony supports both buyers and renters (home owners and landlords). When servicing even a low interest loan accounts for anything of 35% of our disposable income you are at risk for any market changes. Under bubble conditions which makes RE unaffordable you see buyers throwing down 50-70% of disposable to service the loan. The vicous cycle always ends bad through either rate hikes to bring equalibrium or RE crisis as rates stayed too low, too long.

Look at RE like the High Tech bubble, paper gains only unless you sell, take profits!

Smart investers know when to invest, smarter investors know when to sell!
Onemorething
post Dec 21 2010, 02:23 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
192 posts

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(maxforce @ Dec 21 2010, 10:23 AM)
Onemorething,

Just to clarify your statement - Rule #1 - No more than 40% of your net worth should be in RE ownership!

1. Net worth or net disposable income?
2. Is this some investment pie? Can share the optimum one?
*
40% net worth

Problem today it what we called House Poor!

My portfolio is global so hard to accomodate here.

My only point was to explain the issue with overextending one's position in RE and when things change even by an orchestrated downturn, how the masses loose out and potentially loose everything being chained to one asset class.


Added on December 21, 2010, 2:31 pm
QUOTE(value_investor @ Dec 21 2010, 01:01 PM)
A picture speaks a thousand words.

------------
PropWall


Added on December 21, 2010, 1:05 pm

Wrong, the Japan economy has been suffering deflation for 2 decades, which means prices of goods are getting cheaper year after year! So it shouldn't be compared to USD which has been having high inflation over the years!

------------
PropWall
*
The US will follow Japan as the stimulus will need to stop eventually. Some say it will be devalution of the USD, other say hyperinflation and some say the printing presses will only stop when the USD is no longer the reserve currency.

I see 10 years of 10%+ (18%+ REAL) unemployment and the printing to slow and deflation to take hold.

We have only just started and I again say watch the next 12-18 months.


Added on December 21, 2010, 2:41 pm
QUOTE(Veda @ Dec 21 2010, 01:39 PM)
*Sigh* Even if the property market undergoes a correction ...... how much do you think the price will drop? 10-20%? When considering that property prices has gone up 50-100% in the past few years and continue to climb, those that managed to "time the market" (not many can do that!) and buy during a correction may end up paying more than today's prices  tongue.gif

I can say with total confidence that the properties that my family owns will never be foreclosed or sold at bargain prices ..... cause we did our homework  thumbup.gif

And for those praying for a drastic drop in prices that can only come from a very severe downturn ..... do you realise such a deep crisis may cause social unrest? Would you dare to buy then?


Added on December 21, 2010, 1:45 pmBtw. read below (from end of page 9 to page 10) for some investors' response to those hoping for property price drop. I know some taikos in that forum has at least 10 properties!

http://www.myrealestate.com.my/viewtopic.p...0066f50093fbb69
*
If you bought over 4+ years ago then you will be fine. Only your paper gains will be destroyed. Higher the climb the deeper the fall. I want to point out that I'm only interested in high end props which are in my opinion 40-50% overvalued in KL and selected parts of KV.

One thing I can clearly state about these props is that they are not selling, listings are up 200% and you best look to these sellers for indications of where things are going. They are looking to take these profits you speak of above and either re-invest in non RE or keep the liquidity for safety against price drops on properties they keep.

There will be no deep crisis, just an ochestrated long downward cycle now starting 2011 and running to likely 2014 in our part of the world. The Western world, a decade.

Note your comments come from you being the exception rather than the rule IMHO.

This post has been edited by Onemorething: Dec 21 2010, 02:41 PM

7 Pages « < 3 4 5 6 7 >Top
Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0260sec    0.71    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 12th December 2025 - 06:01 AM