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> Proton fuel injection Idle Control, Engine idling adjustment procedure

solai
post Jun 26 2008, 01:19 PM


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I have read a lot of topic on this issues but there were virtually no information on how to cure this problem; ERRATIC IDLING on Proton fuel injection cars.

I own a Wira 1.6XLI Auto and Waja 1.6 Auto.

The Wira have been giving me problems since 2004 when the original Throttle Body fails.
So I have the servo kit changed (2 times in fact); but no good at all.
Proton sell the Throttle Body unit for RM 1200+, so I get a re-cond unit at RM580; but still no good.
Same result as changing the servo kit.

I am an ex-mechanic myself, so I went on a learning spree about fuel injection cars.

Tried reset ECU by taking off battery for 30 minutes, went to workshop for diagnostic reset error code and troubleshoot; every thing is fine; but idling still erratic, especially when air-con kicks in or turning the steering while parking or making a turn.

I've eventually solved the problem... literally!

Here is what you need;

1) flat or Phillips screw driver
2) or no. 8 spanner
3) digital volt meter (must be digital)

Firstly, check the followings;

1) timing set to 12° BTDC (variable range is 8° - 18°) you can set to proper value after adjustment depending on the fuel U use
2) make sure TB Servo is working properly (hot start engine should rev above 1000RPM then drop below that after a couple of seconds)

MUST;
a) set to proper timing of 12° BTDC if not done
b) if TB Servo not working, have it changed

Without meeting a) & b) requirements, this adjustment procedure won't work.

After that, here is the easy part;

1) Start your engine or turn car key to ON position
- measure TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) the 2 green terminals
- variable range must be between 0.5 - 0.95 volts, U try which value is suitable for your car, mind is 0.5 - 0.6 (nice & stable)
2) Turn OFF engine, make sure car key is in OFF position
- turn the air bleed screw all the way clockwise until it locks, not tight - just lock
3) Start the engine & let it run for a minute or so
- engine should open the idle servo to compensate for the lack of air
- engine should automatically rev to >1000RPM then steadily drop to 600/700RPM
4) Engine still running after 1 minute (take your time, let the engine figure out what to do)
- turn air bleed screw 1 full turn anti-clockwise
- engine should again rev >1000RPM then drop to 700RPM or so
5) Let it run a minute or so again
- now ON air-con
- engine should react immediately to the extra load
- ON & OFF air-con a couple of times between intervals of 30 second or so
6) You may turn the air bleed anti-clockwise more, if air-con idle too low
- range is usually 1 - 2.5 turns anti-clockwise

* You are done

My Wira now accelerates better, more immediate and less smoke due to rich idle, engine runs cooler too.
Previously it chokes & accelerate like a diesel vehicle, vibrates during idle; now no more that.

You guys enjoy. Proton car is such a fuzz.

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779364
post Jun 26 2008, 02:14 PM


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Hi,my Waja 1.6 4G18 is also giving me this erratic idling problem.Like what you said,everytime I switch on the air-cond the idling needle will go up and then drop and this also happens when I turn the steering wheel when not moving.

Does your guide applies to my Waja.Mine is a manual.I am not very good in car repair so hopefully you could provide pictures where the adjustment screw will be in order for me to set it up my own.By the way,would there be any effect if I screw up with the setting.Thanks bro

This post has been edited by 779364: Jun 26 2008, 02:14 PM
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Ultima
post Jun 26 2008, 02:23 PM


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is this apply to all proton cars? i dun know how u mention the situation but i do feel my car vibrates when idling...

im driving persona btw sweat.gif
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b48753
post Jun 26 2008, 02:24 PM


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Yes, better to provide picture..cause some of us are noob in engine tuning...including me...hehe..

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unfaithful
post Jun 26 2008, 02:59 PM


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can use in all proton car? im using gen-2 btw.
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the_catacombs
post Jun 26 2008, 03:13 PM


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i think thats for mmc batch... campro and siemens is different
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solai
post Jun 26 2008, 03:51 PM


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Will try to post the photo ASA I can.
- The TPS is usually wire black box & attached to the Throttle Body (TB) with 2 small bolt (usually size 8mm).
- There's only 1 screw in a hole on the TB, its the air bleed.

Yes, this applies to all Proton fuel injection vehicles & this concerns idling only, ermmm... I don't know about Siemens TPS.
- Just measure the voltage, if its between 0.5 - 0.95, you're good.
- Follow from step 2 onwards, its pretty much thats it.
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-storm-
post Jun 26 2008, 04:05 PM


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Yup when i was driving my wira mmc that time i always play with the idling screw...as low as possible,save fuel ma. Now driving campro car idling set at 1k rpm so suck.
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solai
post Jun 26 2008, 04:10 PM


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Proton engines do vibrate a little, especially when the air-con + automatic gear engages, otherwise its fine. MYvi do not vibrate at all due to high RPM @ 1000 - 1100.

You only need to remember 1 thing, TPS voltage range 0.5 - 0.95, do not touch the TPS if you aren't sure about this.

You can screw up the air bleed, no problem; the effect is too high, too low or erratic idling, thats all.

For proper idling adjustment, just follow step 2 onwards.
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! Love Money
post Jun 26 2008, 07:40 PM


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wow... totally noob here sweat.gif
but as long as i know fuel injection engine idling position is cannot be set 1
caburator can because the manual stated there FI car is non-adjustable
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-storm-
post Jun 26 2008, 07:42 PM


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QUOTE(solai @ Jun 26 2008, 04:10 PM)
Proton engines do vibrate a little, especially when the air-con + automatic gear engages, otherwise its fine. MYvi do not vibrate at all due to high RPM @ 1000 - 1100.

You only need to remember 1 thing, TPS voltage range 0.5 - 0.95, do not touch the TPS if you aren't sure about this.

You can screw up the air bleed, no problem; the effect is too high, too low or erratic idling, thats all.

For proper idling adjustment, just follow step 2 onwards.
*
Campro different already lo. My blm i on off air con the idling stays at 1k rpm you dont feel any sudden fluctuation in rpm at all.
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solai
post Jun 27 2008, 03:35 PM


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QUOTE(779364 @ Jun 26 2008, 02:14 PM)
Hi,my Waja 1.6 4G18 is also giving me this erratic idling problem.Like what you said,everytime I switch on the air-cond the idling needle will go up and then drop and this also happens when I turn the steering wheel when not moving.

Does your guide applies to my Waja.Mine is a manual.I am not very good in car repair so hopefully you could provide pictures where the adjustment screw will be in order for me to set it up my own.By the way,would there be any effect if I screw up with the setting.Thanks bro
*
user posted image

Here you go.




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Ultima
post Jun 27 2008, 03:38 PM


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my car not at 1k if idle, i think around 900 rpm, izzit normal? sweat.gif
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andyjyneo
post Jun 27 2008, 03:40 PM


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When engine idle, RPM meter cannot be too high or too low
Too high = makan minyak
Too low = engine will vibrate
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Ultima
post Jun 27 2008, 04:10 PM


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ok so mine is around 900 rpm, n my car vibrate.. so how much rpm u think will make the vibrate stop sweat.gif
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779364
post Jun 28 2008, 07:16 PM


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QUOTE(solai @ Jun 27 2008, 03:35 PM)
user posted image

Here you go.
*
The pic is a little small and I can;'t really see the air bleed screw properly.Is there a bigger pic focused on the air bleed screw.Sorry TS hehe

This post has been edited by 779364: Jun 29 2008, 12:39 AM
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Chartry
post Jun 28 2008, 08:44 PM


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QUOTE(779364 @ Jun 26 2008, 02:14 PM)
Hi,my Waja 1.6 4G18 is also giving me this erratic idling problem.Like what you said,everytime I switch on the air-cond the idling needle will go up and then drop and this also happens when I turn the steering wheel when not moving.

Does your guide applies to my Waja.Mine is a manual.I am not very good in car repair so hopefully you could provide pictures where the adjustment screw will be in order for me to set it up my own.By the way,would there be any effect if I screw up with the setting.Thanks bro
*
my nissan car also the same. on air cond idling sure up. turn wheel when not moving also up.
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carcraze66
post Jun 28 2008, 11:33 PM


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nice information BRO!!
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thom_chai
post Jun 29 2008, 11:13 AM


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And what if the TPS voltage range is not within 0.5 - 0.95? Any way to correct it?
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779364
post Jun 29 2008, 11:32 AM


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I just open up the bonnet and I saw the throttle body sensor with the wires coming out of it.But I can;t see the air bleed screw.
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crusader2
post Jun 29 2008, 05:35 PM


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My wira 1.5 injection TPS voltage is 2.50V. How to adjust that to 0.5 - 0.95V?
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solai
post Jun 30 2008, 12:10 PM


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QUOTE(779364 @ Jun 29 2008, 11:32 AM)
I just open up the bonnet and I saw the throttle body sensor with the wires coming out of it.But I can;t see the air bleed screw.
*
Some vehicle's air bleed is located on the air-flow instead of the throttle body.

If you take out the air filter, you should be able to identify the type of air-flow your car is using.

- if honey-comb type; air-bleed located on throttle body

- if plate actuated type; air-bleed should be located outside the actuator


Added on June 30, 2008, 12:15 pm
QUOTE(crusader2 @ Jun 29 2008, 05:35 PM)
My wira 1.5 injection TPS voltage is 2.50V. How to adjust that to 0.5 - 0.95V?
*
Wow! That's way too high, your car is virtually running on full throttle (WOT).

Just follow the steps I have posted on this topic.

This post has been edited by solai: Jun 30 2008, 12:15 PM
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snooex
post Jun 30 2008, 01:27 PM


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Thanks for the great info.

I'm not familiar with cars, please help me

1. I'm driving a 97 1.5L carburator wira, can i use this technique too?

2. Is there an ECU for this engine?

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solai
post Jun 30 2008, 05:42 PM


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QUOTE(snooex @ Jun 30 2008, 01:27 PM)
Thanks for the great info.

I'm not familiar with cars, please help me

1. I'm driving  a 97 1.5L carburator wira, can i use this technique too?

2. Is there an ECU for this engine?
*
Ermmm... Nop, its a no no for carburetor cars.

Think carburetor engine uses vacuum or newer 1s actuator to raise engine rpm when air-con kicks in.

It would be best if U can find a workshop that have o2 sensor to tune your engine. Its very very difficult to fine tune carburetor engines unless you're experienced enough to listen out the ignition sound, and able to sniff out what the tail pipe throws out (it really smells just right when its right).

DIY info;

There are 2 screws on the carburetor;
1) idle speed
2) idle mix

You'll need to get these 2 combinations right, 1 easy way is to get a vacuum measuring kit, you'll find the necessary instruction that comes with it.

Enjoy!
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yoonseong
post Jul 13 2008, 12:06 AM


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mine got some problem with the air-con, and the lighting of the car... can it be solve by resetting the ecu?

coz whenever i rev my car to 1.1k rpm(around there) during the idling or when there is traffic jam, then the air-con will not have any problem and the car lighting will not goes dim.once i release the pedal then air from the air-con ll lost its coldness and i can see the light become dimmer(during the night, when all electrical stuffs is on).but when the air-con is off, the light only become slightly dimmer.

can anyone help me, if it was not the fault of ecu.

thx

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imperialrealcs
post Jul 13 2008, 12:32 AM


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QUOTE(Ultima @ Jun 26 2008, 02:23 PM)
is this apply to all proton cars? i dun know how u mention the situation but i do feel my car vibrates when idling...

im driving persona btw sweat.gif
*
no, it does not apply on all proton car nod.gif
cars like Satria GTi, Putra and Perdana V6 run on stepper motor which draws air automatically..
wira series is running on gear type where u can do adjustment

QUOTE(-storm- @ Jun 26 2008, 04:05 PM)
Yup when i was driving my wira mmc that time i always play with the idling screw...as low as possible,save fuel ma. Now driving campro car idling set at 1k rpm so suck.
*
as low as posibble hurt ur engine.. no wonder last time u complaint ur wira so much problem

to TS:
would'nt a FICD do a nicer job? my friend wira 1.6 also got problem with idling.. my mech juz install FICD from toyota and now his idling is superb!
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solai
post Jul 15 2008, 06:52 PM


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QUOTE(yoonseong @ Jul 13 2008, 12:06 AM)
mine got some problem with the air-con, and the lighting of the car... can it be solve by resetting the ecu?

coz whenever i rev my car to 1.1k rpm(around there) during the idling or when there is traffic jam, then the air-con will not have any problem and the car lighting will not goes dim.once i release the pedal then air from the air-con ll lost its coldness and i can see the light become dimmer(during the night, when all electrical stuffs is on).but when the air-con is off, the light only become slightly dimmer.

can anyone help me, if it was not the fault of ecu.

thx
*
PLEASE post the type of vehicle and engine model, or atleast the vehicle model, type & CC.

I assume that you are talking about WAJA with MMC engine; THEN this is normal unless your engine RPM drops to 500-600 RPM when air-con is ON; then its not normal. Just try disconnecting battery negative(-) terminal for 30 minutes (just to be sure) to reset the ECU. This should kick start it back to factory mod, BUT be sure you next start it next morning when engine is cool.


Added on July 15, 2008, 6:59 pm
QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ Jul 13 2008, 12:32 AM)
no, it does not apply on all proton car nod.gif
cars like Satria GTi, Putra and Perdana V6 run on stepper motor which draws air automatically..
wira series is running on gear type where u can do adjustment
as low as posibble hurt ur engine.. no wonder last time u complaint ur wira so much problem

to TS:
would'nt a FICD do a nicer job? my friend wira 1.6 also got problem with idling.. my mech juz install FICD from toyota and now his idling is superb!
*
FYI: Stepper or Gear type works the same, it let more or less air into only, air-flow does the rest to ensure the engine works on a pre-set idle RPM.

I do agree; in most works, it makes sense making modification sometimes; especially when ECU not performing proberly. FICD (Fast Idle Control Device). AND yap, most mechanic tends to recommend this due to simplicity reasons.


Added on July 15, 2008, 7:07 pm
QUOTE(Ultima @ Jun 27 2008, 04:10 PM)
ok so mine is around 900 rpm, n my car vibrate.. so how much rpm u think will make the vibrate stop sweat.gif
*
This 1 is easy; if engine still vibrate at 900 RPM, ignition timing too high.]

Wonder if your car ping & tart when going over a hammork?


Added on July 15, 2008, 7:10 pm
QUOTE(Chartry @ Jun 28 2008, 08:44 PM)
my nissan car also the same. on air cond idling sure up. turn wheel when not moving also up.
*
Sounds like your NISSAN is still behaving nicely; like a nice girl making sure you're happy. Wait till it complains. Hehe...

This post has been edited by solai: Jul 15 2008, 07:10 PM
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musclemass
post Oct 3 2008, 01:48 PM


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How do i set the BTDC to 12°? And how do I know if it's already 12 in the 1st place?
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the_catacombs
post Oct 3 2008, 01:56 PM


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QUOTE(musclemass @ Oct 3 2008, 01:48 PM)
How do i set the BTDC to 12°? And how do I know if it's already 12 in the 1st place?
*
use timing light to check.. smile.gif
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moses2612
post May 31 2011, 11:19 PM


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QUOTE(solai @ Jun 26 2008, 02:19 PM)
I have read a lot of topic on this issues but there were virtually no information on how to cure this problem; ERRATIC IDLING on Proton fuel injection cars.

I own a Wira 1.6XLI Auto and Waja 1.6 Auto.

The Wira have been giving me problems since 2004 when the original Throttle Body fails.
So I have the servo kit changed (2 times in fact); but no good at all.
Proton sell the Throttle Body unit for RM 1200+, so I get a re-cond unit at RM580; but still no good.
Same result as changing the servo kit.

I am an ex-mechanic myself, so I went on a learning spree about fuel injection cars.

Tried reset ECU by taking off battery for 30 minutes, went to workshop for diagnostic reset error code and troubleshoot; every thing is fine; but idling still erratic, especially when air-con kicks in or turning the steering while parking or making a turn.

I've eventually solved the problem... literally!

Here is what you need;

1) flat or Phillips screw driver
2) or no. 8 spanner
3) digital volt meter (must be digital)

Firstly, check the followings;

1) timing set to 12° BTDC (variable range is 8° - 18°) you can set to proper value after adjustment depending on the fuel U use
2) make sure TB Servo is working properly (hot start engine should rev above 1000RPM then drop below that after a couple of seconds)

MUST;
a) set to proper timing of 12° BTDC if not done
b) if TB Servo not working, have it changed

Without meeting a) & b) requirements, this adjustment procedure won't work.

After that, here is the easy part;

1) Start your engine or turn car key to ON position
    - measure TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) the 2 green terminals
    - variable range must be between 0.5 - 0.95 volts, U try which value is suitable for your car, mind is 0.5 - 0.6 (nice & stable)
2) Turn OFF engine, make sure car key is in OFF position
    - turn the air bleed screw all the way clockwise until it locks, not tight - just lock
3) Start the engine & let it run for a minute or so
    - engine should open the idle servo to compensate for the lack of air
    - engine should automatically rev to >1000RPM then steadily drop to 600/700RPM
4) Engine still running after 1 minute (take your time, let the engine figure out what to do)
    - turn air bleed screw 1 full turn anti-clockwise
    - engine should again rev >1000RPM then drop to 700RPM or so
5) Let it run a minute or so again
    - now ON air-con
    - engine should react immediately to the extra load
    - ON & OFF air-con a couple of times between intervals of 30 second or so
6) You may turn the air bleed anti-clockwise more, if air-con idle too low
    - range is usually 1 - 2.5 turns anti-clockwise

* You are done

My Wira now accelerates better, more immediate and less smoke due to rich idle, engine runs cooler too.
Previously it chokes & accelerate like a diesel vehicle, vibrates during idle; now no more that.

You guys enjoy. Proton car is such a fuzz.
*
Bro

my waja idling went crazy after engine overhaul. cannot get the idling. tried to swap with new TB,solve the jumping idling rpm, but now the rpm wont get down below 1000. stop at 1500 and lower when i turn on air-con.any idea?

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the_catacombs
post Jun 1 2011, 05:49 AM


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QUOTE(moses2612 @ May 31 2011, 11:19 PM)
Bro

my waja idling went crazy after engine overhaul. cannot get the idling. tried to swap with new TB,solve the jumping idling rpm, but now the rpm wont get down below 1000. stop at 1500 and lower when i turn on air-con.any idea?
*
check for any vacuum leaks at ur throttle body and intake manifold... check for vacuum line leaks as well...
check cam timing if its correct during timing belt installation...
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moses2612
post Jun 2 2011, 12:52 AM


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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Jun 1 2011, 06:49 AM)
check for any vacuum leaks at ur throttle body and intake manifold... check for vacuum line leaks as well...
check cam timing if its correct during timing belt installation...
*
thanks bro

will tried to check for leak first. By the way the TPS have 3 wired;solid green,green with mark & 1 black. which green wire should i use. tried to unplug the connector and measure it. solid geen gave me 4.90V. green with mark no value as well the black. thinking the black is for ground.
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jasondotcom
post Jun 19 2011, 11:51 AM


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hi TS,

Is there a sure way to RESET Campro IAFM engined ECU????

Another question would be, 2 weeks ago, i had my ecu retuned by Proton SC using PDT to retard my ignition timing from step 1 to step 2 to reduce my engine pinging noise.

Will this setting be erased / reset once the ecu is reset?????
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carlsonkhong
post Sep 13 2011, 11:04 PM


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does the stepper motor will affect the idling?
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jasonloh7906
post Sep 14 2011, 01:36 AM


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QUOTE(Ultima @ Jun 27 2008, 04:10 PM)
ok so mine is around 900 rpm, n my car vibrate.. so how much rpm u think will make the vibrate stop sweat.gif
*
its normal to have 900rpm. if on aircond should drop to 800rpm. if ur car is new enough,normally will not feel or see the vibration. when ur car is getting older even like 2years time when u idle u can see the steering vibrating. normally this vibration is on idling only. if u are in gear it wont vibrate.
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solai
post May 18 2012, 04:43 PM


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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Jun 1 2011, 05:49 AM)
check for any vacuum leaks at ur throttle body and intake manifold... check for vacuum line leaks as well...
check cam timing if its correct during timing belt installation...
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You should service the servo assembly (the attachment unit mounted below the throttle body) or change it (fiber type should cost around RM280) and you don't have to use the aluminum type as we do not need hot water circulation in Malaysia's climate (EON retail around RM12xx).

The fiber servo is easy install and the water supply should loop back from inlet to outlet.

Remember to reset the ECU by unplugging the battery positive terminal and ground it for at least 30 minutes.

Turn the bleeder from closed to 3/4 to 1 turn out, depending on your liking.

On initial warm up run, the engine should idle near stall around 400-450 rpm but no worries, it should right itself after 2-3 start up runs @ 700-800 rpm and 800-900 rpm with air-con on.


Added on May 18, 2012, 5:04 pm
QUOTE(jasonloh7906 @ Sep 14 2011, 01:36 AM)
its normal to have 900rpm. if on aircond should drop to 800rpm. if ur car is new enough,normally will not feel or see the vibration. when ur car is getting older even like 2years time when u idle u can see the steering vibrating. normally this vibration is on idling only. if u are in gear it wont vibrate.
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It sounds like your car engine's ignition timing is wrong if nothing else is. Try pump in RON97 on next fuel top-up, if idling is smoother on RON97 you should lower ignition timing. All vehicle with factory fitted air-con should have higher idling when air-con is on (at least 100-200 rpm).

In ECU model, this setting have to be reprogrammed, carburetor engines should have a plunger or vacuum control unit.

Its pretty easy to adjust ignition timing if you do not have proper equipment BUT better get the professional to do it if you're a newbie in this. Anyway, usually by lowering or increasing timing by 1mm clock or anti-clockwise and engine idle at (lets say 700 rpm) engine should hold steady at the same rpm when air-con turn ON and then increase by 100-200 rpm immediately or a second or so later.


Added on May 18, 2012, 5:12 pm
QUOTE(jasondotcom @ Jun 19 2011, 11:51 AM)
hi TS,

Is there a sure way to RESET Campro IAFM engined ECU????

Another question would be, 2 weeks ago, i had my ecu retuned by Proton SC using PDT to retard my ignition timing from step 1 to step 2 to reduce my engine pinging noise.

Will this setting be erased / reset once the ecu is reset?????
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I have read on other article saying that campro engine ping is not caused by timing but the iafm unit.

This post has been edited by solai: May 18 2012, 05:12 PM
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SleeplessEyes
post May 18 2012, 05:16 PM


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dear solai & other sifu,

Driving a Wira 1.3, Siemens VDO ECU.
Thanks for your sharing on the air screw part.

Since you mentioned the ignition timing can be adjusted. Where and how to DIY adjust the ignition timing? Or is it still determined by the ECU, and need to use PDT unit to adjust?

Previously if on my carby Nissan Sunny, I could adjust it with ease, even without the stroboscope light, but I can't find a screw to unlock the distributor.

I would love to adjust it for better power and FC, since the power and FC is like shyt.
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solai
post May 18 2012, 05:17 PM


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QUOTE(crusader2 @ Jun 29 2008, 05:35 PM)
My wira 1.5 injection TPS voltage is 2.50V. How to adjust that to 0.5 - 0.95V?
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On Wira 1.5, I don't think it has TPS, but rather an on/off switch and either switch or tps, just set it to OFF @ 0.8 mm after open throttle, smaller gap should have better stop/pickup tongue.


Added on May 18, 2012, 5:20 pm
QUOTE(moses2612 @ May 31 2011, 11:19 PM)
Bro

my waja idling went crazy after engine overhaul. cannot get the idling. tried to swap with new TB,solve the jumping idling rpm, but now the rpm wont get down below 1000. stop at 1500 and lower when i turn on air-con.any idea?
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Its idle servo assemble problem if you have the bleeder screw turned all the way-in and still same problem.

This post has been edited by solai: May 18 2012, 05:20 PM
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