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Important Background Information:



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THE REAL GAME OF LOVE
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First, a few definitions:
Social Dominance: in control of one's life and has a certain level of connectedness with those in his social circle. In the modern world, social dominance is difficult to achieve without money, but possible on a tight budget none the less.
Pretty: sexually attractive / proportionate (whatever your definition of sexual attractiveness may be)
Ugly: not sexually attractive / disproportionate (note: it's not about being slim or chubby...)


Consider the following statements:
Guys like girls who are pretty.
Girls like guys who are socially dominant.

Guys would not usually think of actively courting / spending resources on girls whom they are not at least a little bit sexually attracted (or physically aroused by) to.
Girls would not usually think of actively trying to get the attention of guys whom they perceive as being weak.

Guys try to court the pretty girls.
Pretty girls have a wide choice of guys.
Pretty girls will not usually settle for guys who are non-socially dominant.

Girls try to attract the socially dominant guys.
Socially dominant guys have a wide choice of girls.
Socially dominant guys will not usually settle for girls who are ugly.

Your "average" girl may just so happen to appeal to a really socially dominant guy.
Your "average" guy may just so happen to appeal to a really pretty girl.

Face it,
Being pretty improves a girl's chances of finding the right guy who is reasonably socially dominant, reasonably well built, and compatible.
Being socially dominant improves a guy's chances of finding the right girl who is reasonably charming/feminine, reasonably sexually attractive, and compatible.

That Said,
Not all girls are pretty.
What about the girl who realizes that she's in her 30s and has never dated? She was never sexually attractive enough to have a guy who was up to her expectations ask her out. All this while she was distracted by the pursuit of knowledge and wealth/career. Her biological clock is ticking. She knows she's way past her prime... Her ovaries are not going to wait for her. They are shriveling by the day...
Not all guys are socially dominant.
What about the guy who never attracted the attention of a girl whom he finds reasonably attractive? He's too shy to ask girls out because of bad experiences (with the pretty girls who had more eligable suitors). He's been working for 10 years and now has his own little humble place. He's feeling lonely and knows that his youth is nearing it's end. He's never even gotten laid before (ok, that's a bit cruel to say)

Reality Bites
The average guy learns to lower his expectations/standard to a point where he is comfortable. He finds a girl who he thinks is right for him. He calls it love after awhile.

The average girl learns that the most eligable bachelors are out of her reach and looks elsewhere. She finds a guy who he thinks is right for her. She calls it love after awhile.

Caveat
1) Cultural compatibility plays a key role in finding a life partner. Social dominance and beauty will not guarantee the person you find attractive is right for you.
2) Different people have different standards for beauty/attractiveness/social dominance. Mika recently wrote a song about how chubby girls are attractive in their own way. DONT JUDGE PEOPLE too much.
3) Attractiveness may literally be "chemical". Scientists now believe that people with differing sets of genes for bacterial/viral immunity are more likely to like each other's natural scent (eg. the smell of your t shirt after you've worn it all night to sleep).

What im trying to say is that there are other factors that come in to play asides from the major ones in red and blue.

Personally...
...the person whom i very much would have liked to spend my life with was NOT the prettiest person i've ever dated. We were compatible, and in her I saw "home". I cant explain it, but I DID FIND HER REASONABLY ATTRACTIVE. Unfortunately, we were to go our separate ways


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BIG Questions This Thread Answers
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Why It Is So Hard To Find A Date On A Friday Night?
1) Your standards are too high.
2) You are not attractive enough yourself to attract a partner of your standard.

How Come Western Society With All It's "Pergaulan Bebas" (With Girls Wearing Hotpants and Spaghetti Straps) Has Not Disintegrated?
...because everyone has expectations. The girl with a hot body knows she is attractive and expects to get the guy who is up to her standards. The same goes for the socially dominant guys. Everyone tries to find the most attractive partner they can. Most girls are not that pretty. Most guys are not socially dominant. Hence, social breakdown will not occur even with free mingling. Revealing clothing can be seductive when worn by the right people, but let's face it... Sometimes i'd wish some girls were forbidden from wearing revealing tops. Not because it's arousing, but rather because its just disgusting to look at. Yup, the clothes that hide beauty can also serve to hide ugliness. So what about the beautiful girls? Eye candy to oogle at. But they are picky and free to choose who they are dating. The numerous guys who are turned on by them wont even stand a chance. If malaysian women were to dress more revealingly, I dont think society would disintegrate. Rather, people would be more aware of where they stand in the game of love and attractiveness.

Antithesis of the Moralistic Paradigm: Malaysians are generally taught in our education system (PI or Moral) about the need for moral safeguards and interventions (eg J.A.I.S. raids) with regards to dating and sex. According to the moralists, society would disintegrate without such measures. "Pergaulan bebas", or free inter-gender mingling, is discouraged. Camps are segregated. The college that I went to even had a gender segregated cafeteria! We are taught to hate or frown upon the natural approach to dating and relationships. We are taught that women should not reveal themselves as it is harmful to society.




If you are a guy and have found this post useful, do read the following:
What Girls Really Want In A Man.
A bump in that thread will be much appreciated, for the good of MAN-kind.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 27 2008, 10:26 PM

Will start a poll to request pin when article is complete.

Thanks for the compliments!


I did this on my spare time. Im not an arts student, although if I didnt get the course of my choice I may have likely chosen something to do with sociology/anthropology.


Those kinds of guys would always exist wouldnt they. DIfficult to reason with them. Just like the girls who think guys just look at TnA (tits and ass) when judging women.


Hahaha, maybe in the far future, not anytime soon. Aiming to complete the article over the next few weeks.



Coming up:

The BIG questions of life that this article has answered. (it's not what you think it is trust me.)
What prompted me to think about all of this.
General cleanup, append caveat #4, and update layout. Prob remove the spoiler in the beginning as well.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jun 27 2008, 11:46 AM

that's a pretty harsh conclusion to make.


It takes two people to tango before there is love.

Yet people only tango with other people who are up to their expectations.

Everyone likes to thiink they can have high expectations.



Love blossoms when you spend enough time with someone you are attracted to (and is attracted to you).

The key is time. Quality time. Not time with a group of friends. Time alone together. Over a nice meal. Long walks on the beach (cliche leh...).


Unattractive people (this applies to both guys and girls) have difficulty finding someone decently attractive (by their standards) who is also attractted to them...

Love still blossoms though. They eventually learn to lower their standards and end up spending time with a less-than-ideal, but still acceptable person of the opposite sex. Spend enough time and they get used to each other, and love blooms.

Love isnt really blind. But they know that they have to be blind towards the really attractive people of the opposite sex (as they dont stand much of a chance) and appreciate the person who is willing to go out with them.

Note the word "usually" in the article. (now bolded and italisized)

Also see Caveat #2.

No, what im saying is that beauty/attractiveness lies in the eyes of the beholder.

but that said,

generally, socially dominant guys and proportionate girls are considered attractive/beautiful/desirable.


Then there is also the possibility that:

You may see the next guy whom you consider average going out with a girl you consider beautiful. Yet, you dont see the qualities in that "average" guy that the beautiful girl sees. Yes, girls judge guys on levels that go far beyond what i intend this thread to lead. A deeper discussion on this is at my other more long winded thread: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/623201



Also,

There is no such thing as being definitely unattractive or attractive. It's not black and white. People are a shade of grey.

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Added on June 28, 2008, 1:56 pmultimately, only you know where your standard lies.

If you think you can go after the really attractive girls, then go for it. WHo knows, maybe you stand a chance? Never know till you try right.

I believe that a majority of guys will have to lower their standard until they are comfortable. Just like a majority of girls will realize that they are not going to get the rich/handsome/socially_dominant prince charming of their dreams and will have to settle for less.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jun 28 2008, 01:56 PM

theoretically yes.

Though i've never come across a pretty girl without any decently attractive guy going after her.

or a handsome, charming, and dominant guy without any pretty girls trying to attract him.

I think attractive people (both boys and girls) simply have more options. This can be a bad thing (eg. Britney Spears). But it's better to have options than to not have them.

Try telling the ugly disproportionate girl who never had an admirer or a guy to take her out that beauty isnt everything.

Try telling the shy weak guy who never had any girls give him so much as an extra second of eye contact that social dominance (/power/money) isn't important.

^They'll hate you.


We all want the most (culturally/socially compatible and) attractive partner we can get. Let's not kid ourself or give ourselves excuses as to why they are out of our reach.

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Added on June 30, 2008, 11:41 pmEveryone does different things to make themselves happy.

Hedonists indulge in worldly posessions.

Spiritualists pray and tell themselves smugly that they are morally superior to others.


but you:


...it's like you've reached a point in your life where you insult people to feel good about yourself?



That's kinda low dude...

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jun 30 2008, 11:41 PM

Couldnt have said it better myself.
I've said this many times.


If the girl you like doesnt seem to like you:

1) go to the gym
2) build social network
3) try again few months later.

yup cultural/social compatibility is definitely an issue.


though face it: we all wouldnt mind going out with someone really pretty (or socially dominant for girls) even if we werent totally socially/culturally compatible.

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Added on July 1, 2008, 6:35 pmBeing attractive gives you more choices - hence increasing the likelyhood of finding someone you are comfortable with.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 1 2008, 06:36 PM

Good idea, though the other thread was very messy and i have to admit it was more of a rant than a proper article.


I hope this thread could be pinned. It was written from ground up as an article. It does not need much more polishing to make it complete.

I think morality is not really relevant to a person's level social dominance.

Some losers use the issue of morality to make up for their low social dominance.

EXAMPLE: "I may have low self esteem and have no idea how to talk to women, but I know that I am a righteous person because God/Deity/Fate/Karma has someone who's right for me. I am proud of my chastity bla bla bla bla" (when in reality they never even had the chance to get laid)

That said, a socially dominant person who knows how to play his cards right will usually choose to take the moral highground when possible.




thanks for the compliment

while some guys are both socially dominant and 'loud'/talkative, being talkative isnt necessarily a sign of social dominance. Perhaps the guy is so insecure that he seeks attention all the time? The attention grabbing sociopath isnt necessarily socially dominant.

thanks for the compliments. Please vote in poll to pin


cheers

It started with this thread:

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/623201

It evolved over the months to be what it is now.

A distillation of the article was eventually made: Face The Truth™

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/727987

Thanks for the encouragement.

Yeah, i think im heading in your direction. It's quite interesting to see how the perception of the opposite sex towards you changes as you start to improve your (physical) image. Confidence along with social skills rise as well along with that.



Thanks for the compliments =)

It would be really helpful if you could help bump this thread if you notice it in the second page.

Also, please vote for this thread to be pinned here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/752384

Truth must always come out. If it is kept under the rug, the wolves will only be more dangerous.



Thanks for the compliments.

Guys, please go to this thread and VOTE YES
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/752384 <-- help bump this thread too please.

No. He wishes he is. But no.


so, yenyen... erm wanna hang out some time?




rotfl =)

A Big THANK YOU to everyone who has replied to this thread!


Please see This Thread for the most current version of the principles/concepts being raised.

But im not in malaysia

Blast from the past guys.

I kinda forgot about this thread (Been in RWI under a pseudonym lately).

Will get responding soon.

I dont talk about my love life online ( i use my real name so i cant).

I'll be in KL next month. Always free for a coffee or a chat. Just drop me a message.