If have goodwill attributable to NCI, the allocation method will be (basis of subsidiary's profits & losses = shareholding)
For example : if Parent owns 90% of holding, NCI will get 10% of goodwill (not pro-rata basis)

Example : If parent owns 90%
Goodwill 4.5
Imp loss (1)
Impaired value 3.5
(Goodwill attributable to NCI, let say 0.5)

If i use pro-rata basis to allocate impairment loss it will be parent (4.5 - 0.5) / 4.5 = 89% , NCI (0.5) / 4.5 = 11% which are wrong
The suitable method is
parent NCI total
Goodwill 4 0.5 5
Imp loss
- 90% x 1 (0.9)
- 10% x 1 (0.1) (1)
Impaired value 3.1 0.4 4
3.1 will be shown at group BS, goodwill (NCA) while 0.4 will be shown at group BS, NCI (Equity)

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Added on August 6, 2008, 6:14 pmSorry, i forgot to space the draft
parent 4 - 0.9 = 3.1 shown at goodwill (BS)
NCI 0.5 - 0.1 = 0.4 shown at NCI (BS)

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 6 2008, 06:14 PM

IFRS 3 gives 2 option for value non-controlling interest at company's discretion :
1) Proportionate share of FV of Sub net asset.
= the goodwill figure derived will be the same as previous IFRS 3 (b4 change)

2) FV (m.v of the shares held by NCI shareholders just b4 acquistion)
= use this method if QS clearly stated a m.v of share price (ie : RM 3 per share)
= will derive a different goodwill figure

For those who wants to know more on the changes, can go to this website (by deloitte)
Its very technical & heavy but quite useful in its explanation : (its around 156 slide)
http://www.iasplus.com/dttpubs/0807ifrs3guide.pdf

I really can't comment on P7 diffculties but i heard from other friends of mine it is more "knowledge based", very "theoretical" & stuff.
Their opinion is that it is only useful for those who wish to embark on audit sector for a long term period (otherwise its quite impractical).
Judging from students feedback most don't "like" audit since its quite "meticulous" & "tedious".
However, the main factor that not much people chooses P7 bcos lack "tuition providers" aka lecturers
The main lecturers for F8 audit did not even continue lecture for P7 (sheila john, phillip woo,....etc), they opt for P1 instead.
I heard there is a good one at FTMS (Fung chee kong) but don't know still got teaching or not ?

Although P6 have the lowest pass rate among all ACCA papers but with good practice & skills (plus a strong foundation in Tax knowledge) its
not that difficult. However there is also mass exodus of Tax lecturer (Chong kwai fatt, Chow chee yen,....etc). Plus if you believe it Tax is the
most boring subject (repititive & tons to memorise) may put off some people. However someone with good tax knowledge can surely impresses
any "layman" out there.
Try to tell ACCA to your relatives they will be dozed off, not interested.....etc
Now try to tell them you can cut their tax by few hundred if not thousand of ringgit they will surely impressed
(they even belanja me makan after that )

I do heard from some tax students that Alan Yeo although experienced but quite boring not as animated like other KSA lecturers like Parmindar & viknes. I think you can consider Chin Ann (at KB) quite a good tax lecturer (class quite fun too).
There is another call siva nair (also veteran like alan yeo but talk very fast & notes quite bulky).

By the way how about P5 or P4 ?

Chin Ann previously taught at KSA then FTMS then Kolej Bandar (quite recommended for audit & tax) His style of teaching was very refreshing & student friendly. The fees are not expensive either but facilities are inferior compared to other colleges.

Actually this is the first time i heard people call audit easy . well its not unheard of since some students are good in memorising, some reasoning while others calculation experts. I heard from others that experience of work is vital to pass audit (procedures & stuff). You can give it
a go but self study for Professional optional paper was a bit risky but achieveable nonetheless.

If you need a tuition provider for P7 there is only one reputable center which offers lecturer = FTMS (Fung Chee Kong). I heard he was quite good too. KSA, MCO did not offer this (maybe revision only).

P5 is a continuity from F5 & has many similar topics with P3. With the overlapping areas & average "add-on" from F5 already it can considered
the easiest P papers FOR NOW.

The reason i go against P7 audit bcos this is the field that requires "application" rather than knowledge. Only those who have experience will thrived
on this area. With knowledge alone it can be quite difficult especially each comp have different Internal Controls & audit procedures.

Tax is quite different as knowledge can be fully utilised here. Any company needs to submit tax return. They have discretion to form their own
dept or outsource it. Either way, a good tax speciallist can earn much here depends on his "knowledge", "experience" & "credibility".
For example :
Company tax RM 500,000. After consultation Comp tax reduced to RM 200,000. Your service charge RM 150,000.
Therefore comp have option to pay RM 500,000 or RM 350,000 (tax Rm 120k + service charge = RM 150k) which of course choose to pay lesser.
Therefore the better you are with tax the more you can earned (like lawyer lo)

If you are not in tax related sector. You can help comp to plan its biz expenses by telling them the Deductible & non deductible expenses
Or taxable & non taxable income....etc.

I have attended his class before & his method can accomodate all kinds of student. His text note was quite complete & good but mostly at class
he will give his own notes (his own terms) to better explain his text notes. So student who only wants to pass can read 1 portion. Student who want to score can read 2 portion...etc. You wont have chance to be "sleepy" in his class. However check whether you like the facilities first, it was located
at the middle of Petaling Street a block away from KSA.

None is is easy to pass actually. P5 is getting tougher & tougher. P4 is "blood-sucking". P6 must memorise a lot & has the lowest pass rate previous
sitting. It depends on your skills & competency
P5 : If you can reason & argue well you can pass (a lot of overlapping areas with P3)
P4 : Deemed the toughest (lots of formulaes & models) balanced in calculation & theory. No straight answer.
P6 : Must memorise tons of section to apply effectively in exam. (in detail not just key pointers). If foundation of tax not good very hard to grasp P6.

I don't think you really need to have working experience to pass ACCA papers from F1 to F9. However experience does help a bit in Professional
papers especially when they ask scenario based questions (you have exposure).

What your dad said has his own logic since it will be quite difficult to abandoned things halfway & then carry on after working. You may forget some
subject or part of ACCA syllabus in F papers which you will carry on for P papers (F7 to P2, F8 to P7, F9 to P4, F5 to P5, F6 to P6).
Plus all ACCA students required 3 years working experience (PER) to be certified as Chartered accountant. Most students "hope" to begin work
after they complete all their studies. Alas this is not ot be so since it is norm that some will eventually fail & realise its quite improbable to carry on.

From your lecturer's point of view it is quite "reasonable" but not effective. S(he) may argue that you can't possibly apply whatever you learn in
working if you just study without application (which i quite agree ). However it was not that simple as per se. Now what happen if you learn
F6 tax then you work in a tax dept, employer ask you to perform some tax calculation but you noticed certain things that was not teached in F6 but in
P6, then you need to ask..........etc, it will create a lot of tediousness around. How about F7, it was pretty basic & can't apply that much in real-life until you study until P2. Although some student can cope & handle this well but most of them will reply it is not so easy.

I did have a friend that works in PWC while studying. He gets some sort of "scholarship' from PWC (PWC loves acca syudent & tries their best to retain them : bcos low pay but high productivity for the few early years). He gets to go home early for tuition (lecture), some of their staff conducts
tution class for part ACCA students. (that was a few years ago actually)

My advice is try to finish all ACCA papers first. If you "do" fail some of them OR feels frustrated by lack of progress. It was still not too late to work.
Trust me enjoy you student life while you still can before you really start working (especially as an auditor)

I have a general enquiry about the exam results
1) Which website is faster / slower when received by e-mail ?
2) When view online they said is 1600 GMT in Britain. So in Malaysia is +8 hours so figuratively speaking we can check online at 12.00 a.m that's
on early tuesday morning.
However in past trend (last sitting) we can already check online at 3.30p.m. Can anyone clarify on this issue ?

Ok good luck to everyone out there

There are such terms as "fundamental error" in ACCA. Although not absolute, it applies extensively for F6, F7 & F8 bcos this are the fundamental papers. It means there are terms, formats, framework or wording that "must not go wrong" = these are the fundamental areas.
Technical areas are more difficult areas which requires more application (examiner will be more forgiving) Examples :

F6 Tax :
Examiner expects students to display a deep understanding on format of tax computation especially when to use wording as adjusted income,
statutory income, aggregate income or chargeable income. Where to classify employment inocme or biz income. If you insert the wrong figures it is
expected but if you mistakenly insert the wrong wording don't expect the marker to be generous.

F7 Reporting :
Examiner expect student to know the format of comprehensive income statement, financial position, cash flow statement & others.
Wrong figures again won't be heavy penalised if you got appropriate workings to support. If you put the item in a wrong area again the examiner
will not be pleased. Example you put dividend under profit before tax or included goodwill under equity.

F8 Audit :
This has become a norm where very year student will ask the same qs, when to use SP or TOC. Unless the qs stated specificly general assumption is to use SP. If thet clearly clarify / hinted to use TOC then use TOC. Why the debate bcos this area will almost decide the fate of the paper itself,
if wrongly answered it can even become 0 out of 15/20/25 marks.

TOC : since this sitting ask TOC (which shocks most students who assume its SP qs since come out quite extensively), i will dwell on this mattter.
Basicly TOC almost same with SP in its audit procedure but different in 2 ways :
1) the wording : Don't use the word trace back, cast, or other SP words (using this will generally get 0 mark).
Use wordings like observe, inspect, inquire, which are methods to obtain evidence.

2) Objective : It is to test effectiveness of internal control (whether the sytems are working adequately) not SP which is to detect material misstatement.
Technically apart from this 2 ways, the audit prodeures content should be almost similar.
Perhaps the examiner notice this he only allocates around 10 - 15 marks for this area. last time he can give up to >20 marks.

I have pass all my papers (F7, F8 & F9) thank you mr haneef, low chin ann & daniel Ho. you are the best .
By the way , i would like to ask how much is the aggregate mark for paper F4 to F9 to achieve 2nd upper or 1st ?

Good luck to all

Oh great, i think i have achieved 1st, i think should consult my lecturer first.
May god bless you all

I'm about to register for 2nd term for P3 at KSA (parmindar).
Can anyone "recommended" (those who have sat before) on its revision structure :
- RI only
- RE only
- RI + RE.
Is there any disadvantage of not taking either of them.

I have already attend his 1st term class but worried about the class size, especially when combine full & part time classes.
If there is any other better choice / alternative i won't consider KSA as my preferred centre.

Its not that comfortable to study (the air-condition malfunctions most of the time there is a class in auditorium), it got worse when everybody has to cramped into a pack of sardin with little room to manoeuvre. (push a little bit behind will hit somebody )
You cannot even stretch your leg after a lengthy class

I remember 1 time a girl wants to go to the washroom but reluctant as she sat at the farside of the class (have to wait until break)
Late a little bit (you already know the consequence, sit at the end of the row which the lecturer shrinks into a hobbit, sometimes no table at all)
If not for some of its good lecturer & "not so expensive fees" i really dread the day to go there back again.
No offence to anyone though as nothing is perfect

Actually i never consider to change lecturer (since i have a conduct a thorough analysis b4 eventually choosing him).
I was just frustrated over KSA crowded sardine environment.
Parmindar is fine but sometimes he can be "over animated" & gone off topic for certain times.

Speaking of CKF, will he be conducting any tax classes in near future ?

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Added on August 19, 2008, 11:12 amI have checked that new FTMS lecturer is IT based (student feed backs was not that encouraging either)
The previous one (Wong Siew Choo) although not bad but no point switching lecturer now (she has shift to PAC)
Speaking of booking place i always seen empty space "reserved" for friends but eventually "none came" & they grab 2 seats instead.
I don't mind this happen in normal class but in combined class this can become very unethical action

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 19 2008, 11:12 AM

I have heard from my lecturer that unless you want to spend most of your life doing audit work there is very little point in
taking P7 (since its mostly theoretical in nature).
It depends on which kind of auditor you which to become :

External auditor (ie : KPMG, PWC, E&Y, Deloitte)
- its regulated so you need to be accountacy body member (MIA)
- most didn't stay long on this job as the pay is low, long working hours & tedious work.
- it was actually a foundation or platform for you to embark on a better prospect ot to build your experience to fulfill the PER.
- Some will eventually join other comp for better job positions or rise internally to become a senior staff, consultant or even partner.
- It is to build rapport with other staff of other companies that you have audited (to gain job employment oppurnities)
- Having an ACCA will be more than enough since experience is the one that really counts.

Internal auditor (within your own company)
- its not regulated (as long as you can convince the boss to hire, anyone can become one)
- Although not mandatory but being a member of Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA) will be a bonus advantage in your boss eyes.
- This is the job where they will eventually blame anything on you (if you did not check properly or miss something like fraud) since
the employer pay your wages but they are protected in some way.

Unless you want to become an expert in audit fields, you can consider P7. Otherwise F8 is more than enough.

It depends on what kind of lecturer you preferred :
Sheila John : She has many thick notes which will be helpful but she will just browse through which may lack the details in explanation of understanding.

Phillip Woo : He conduct class in weekend (normally up to 6 hours at a go). Class packed like sardin but a veteran lecturer who is also a key executive of a company. He can give you a lot of practical example & questions to try out. He like sto conduct mock test

Chin Ann : I have heard that some students that had failed under the 2 above lecturer went to study under him & finall passed.
He is a very dedicated lecturer & encoureage students to actuall write out the answer to familiarise with the technique & examiner style.
After much deliberation I choose him for F8 & finally pass it at 1 go.

His class was the least cramped of all.
Sheila & phillip class can strectch to over >100, Chin Ann will normally max 50.

I have tried "extracting" views & opinions from lecturers & students alike about OBU and i get a pretty general idea :
For the new ACCA student whom started from F1 all the way to P7 when the new syllabus kicks in OBU has become a compulsory / mandatory
as per CPA in Australia which requires unvesity degree as a prerequisite. Most of the previous students are exempted from this but not the new generation students.
(It is part of ACCA collaboration with Oxford Brookes to strengthen the degree recognition but in the past the result is not that encouraging)

Most lecturers have 2 opinions regarding this issue (student alike) :
1) Technically OBU doesn't offer much as "add-on knowledge" or as employment advancement. Most bosses (with a/c knowledge) will not critically
judge the student's academic background by having an extra degree (by just spending few months to obtain it).
ACCA alone will be sufficient to start your career + gaining relevant experience = create better job oppurnities.
I got a very funny phrase here (why bother ordering another wine for dinner when you already have a bottle of champagne)

They agree though that if they are 2 staff with ACCA, same work experience length & potential, maybe & just maybe the OBU will act as
a bonus advantage.

2) To be employed by most big firms, companies or organizations they required the applicant to be 2nd upper or 1st class degree holder while some
will only opt for 1st. With ACCA alone its self explanatory that the candidate has necessary skills & experience to obtain a proffesional
qualification.

Next you will need to find a mentor for your OBU, if you study under different colleges & not under a single unversity this can be quite troublesome
& tedious. Lastly, the fees was not that cheap either.

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Added on August 20, 2008, 10:14 pmProfessional scheme - pass rates
ACCA Qualification - pass rates

Paper Jun 2008
F1 = 83
F2 = 51
F3 = 48
F4 = 46
F5 = 28
F6 = 45
F7 = 33
F8 = 32
F9 = 42
P1 = 49
P2 = 48
P3 = 49
P4 = 36
P5 = 37
P6 = 36
P7 = 33

Apart from 2 killer papers P4 & P6 which gain some increase in pass rates, technically overall pass rate has dropped.
No wonder few can boast about F5

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 20 2008, 10:16 PM

Definitely but actually its not that important if you don't take OBU (unless you want to prove to others especially those who don't know much about ACCA). I also planned to take but after hearing from most feedbacks i don't think it makes much a difference anyway.
However there is also no harm in taking it.
However if you have ACCA + CIMA or ACCA + CPA or ACCA + CFA or eben ACCA + ICAEW then it would truly make a big difference.

The pass rate was obtained here :
http://www.accaglobal.com/students/study_e...essional_scheme
Just came out only, i discovered it by chance.