Actually there is an optimum power for a particular room size but it also depends on your room accoustics. Room accoustics are most important. Sub placement and gain adjustments can sometimes yield good results to combat room accoustics problems.

Ronnt88,
I believe that for your room size, the Velodynes will do well. Maybe u can ask HiFi Choice to demo the CH-10Q/R 1st in your home. Even though your kitchen is an extension of your hall, I believe you will still be able to get good tight accurate bass with the velodyne. If not enough, then get the CHT-12Q/R....

Yes I believe the bass was lacking. Since there is no provision to place the subwoofer anywhere else, the best bet would be to check out the velodyne.

Good for u chief. Hope this satisfies ur "bass" hunger... RM2.8k is a very good price for a 12" sub.

My friend, you have been at this for a while. And a lot of good people here have been trying their best to provide their suggestions. Unfortunately, u put all of them down and say u cannot find a sub even without trying a single sub. Try one of them and then tell us that it is not good enuf for u. And if 3000Watts RMS is not enuf, as someone said earlier, build ur own sub man!

logit85, you found ur dream speakers, sub! As mys_terious puts it, fast fast buy buy..

I would like to share something that I found recently. Subs are normally rated +/- 3dB. Typically it means that the sub will go as low as that within a tolerance of +/- 3dB from reference. The normal reference is 75dB. This rating is done in a quasi anechoic chamber/room. This does not mean that the sub cannot reproduce below that. It only means that the volume will be lower than 72dB. Subs normally have a very steep rolloff below their rating.

My sub is rated at 26Hz (+/- 3dB). However, our room accoustics can lower or increase the frequency quite a bit. For example, if I use it in my dedicated stereo system I get +/- 3dB at 25Hz. However, if I were to change the sub phase to 0 from 180 I get a room response where my sub now is able to deliver 21Hz (+/-3dB). However, with this lower there is a huge peak at 37Hz. If I were to hook up my CD player to the CD input of my AVR amp and use the stereo mode (Audyssey enabled) the peaks are much flatter and the 37Hz is reduced. The sub response at 180 is also now down to 20Hz (+/- 3dB). The 37Hz hump is there but very much smaller (the fronts are still pre-out to my dedicated Holfi amp).

I will try to post some graphs of my findings. At the moment, I am using a freeware (with a laptop), a USB soundcard and tripod mounted Radioshack SPL meter to show the response of the sub and mains at the lower frequencies. I am waiting for my new Galaxy Audio SPL meter that is calibrated tightly compared to the RS SPL that is known to be not as accurate. Also by moving my main speakers around, I get to see the flattest response with regards to my main listening position that improves the overall sound experience.

The importance of a sub in a home theater environment compared to a music environment is different. In a pure HT environment, you would like the bass to enable enjoyment of the LFE (boom, explosions, gun shots). However, in a music environment, you want the subwoofer to supplement the main speakers and not cause unnecessary boominess. The sub must not be felt, it needs to be blend in.

I wanted to point out that it is possible to go much lower than the sub is rated at depending on room placement and room accoustics.

I will try my best to post the charts here within the next few weeks when I get my Galaxy Audio SPL meter.

[quote=mys_terious,Apr 22 2009, 08:48 AM]
I will try my best to post the charts here within the next few weeks when I get my Galaxy Audio SPL meter.

[/quote]

oi! dont caci my rs meter! hehe

[/quote]

Not caci-lah bro....i want to compare it to a "supposedly" more accurate SPL meter. Let's see. But I would not have gone this far without your RS SPL meter. I think it is accurate, it gives me a flat response. But let's see.

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Added on April 22, 2009, 9:24 am[quote=kiam,Apr 22 2009, 08:52 AM]
great sharing anfieldude,

care to share the overall setup?

Based on what you've written on your post, my take for it would be you're using a freeware for signal generation to Amp, and using the RS SPL meter to see the sound level.

You will then sweep your signal generation from the lower frequency to higher frequencies noting the sound level as you go?

[/quote]

Yeah, u are mostly correct. The "paid" freeware is a signal generator but it also uses the output of the SPL Meter to map out the readings. As such, no manual readings are necessary. You need to have a soundcard that has a line out and line in to do this work. It produces great graphs and there is a support group as well.

I use a XP based laptop, a Creative USB SB Live soundcard, some splitters, cables, a tripod, RS SPL Meter. Its a simple setup yet priceless.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Apr 22 2009, 02:24 PM

For sound, your ears tell you something is not quite right, the measurements just confirm that. I know some guys, who have golden ears, came over to my house, heard the system, immediately moved the speakers to new position, adjusted the sub a little, lo and behold improvements in sound. If you do not have those ears, measurements help to see if you are in the right direction. You can also confirm that the changes you make are in the right direction.For most audio issues, the low to mid bass is the most problematic due to room issues. It causes loss of detail in other frequencies when it is wrongly set.

I am actually very pleased with Audyssey. I believe that Audyssey adjusts the filters quite right. However, after running Audyssey, it is important to check your speaker levels and correct it with a SPL meter. I found that it was off about 1-2dB, max 3dB.

You r right, some companies report the frequencies quite differently, lucky for you , you checked.

Depending on your AVR, you can readjust speaker levels (trim) when it plays the pink noise thru each speaker using a SPL Meter to guide you to set it at 75dB

Promised to update the charts of the difference between the phase setting on the sub. As mentioned my sub is rated at 26 Hz +/3dB. The measurement were done using the software, a usb sound card and a tripod mounted radio shack spl meter.



Sub and mains sub setting phase 0



Sub and mains sub setting phase 180

Nothing was changed in between. The phase setting changed the response of the sub + the room. Setting the phase to 0 brought my sub response to about 21 Hz. But there are other drops elsewhere (ie, 55Hz). The response at phase 180 is better and less wavy.

I will try to post some other charts when I move the sub around.

I have a peak at 37Hz that I need to tame. Need to move the sub around a little. Also there are other charts to confirm if the problem is with the sub or the mains. That 37Hz peak is caused by the sub and not the mains. The ideal target would be to maintain +/-5dB from 75dB. Next the sub+main charts but this time thru the onkyo avr using stereo mode. This engages Audyssey. As you can see the Audyssey enabled the sub to go down as low as 18Hz and tamed the 37 Hz peak.



Sub and mains thru AVR (pre-amp, front out to integrated amp) with Audyssey

Audyssey definately does a good job. But the experts advised that for music I should not let the signal go through 2 pre amps. It is ok for movies but not so for movies. It is a good tool to understand the effect of your speaker and sub adjustments. So I need to move the sub and see if I can remove the 37Hz peak for my music. Also will repost when I get the Galaxy Audio CM-140 and remeasure.

Thanks to bro mys_terious for loaning me his RS SPL meter.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Apr 28 2009, 09:19 PM

Yes on the RS meter or any SPL meter you need to have a line out and it needs to be input into the line in.

Yes u can. For now it is done automatically.

You know thats a good question. I sweep from 2Hz to 200Hz or for full range until 3000Hz. Just checked the raw data it seems to be at a resolution of 0.4Hz.

Its a pretty cool software. PM me if u need details.

Check it out. It only takes me about 20mins to run a few tests. At least you will understand if you need to move around the sub, mains or improve equalization. Also will help if u want to do some room treatment.

Spot on bro. This is a pretty good response from the sub. It is tuned at 80Hz (~82dB), the -3dB (junction is at 43Hz). There is a hump and a drop. Quite steady. Of course your room accoustics might change all this, but a pretty good curve. My only concern is I do not think this sub goes too low. I believe it will struggle below 50Hz from looking at the charts. It does well above 50Hz. This might be an impediment for big movie moments....

This post has been edited by anfieldude: May 1 2009, 10:25 AM

I think this would make a good musical sub. You need to decide what it would be used for primarily. This is a very controlled sub. As you see the response from 40-80Hz pretty solid. The LFE signals in movies typically will go down to 20Hz, mostly much lower than that. The boom effect of explosions and all will be controlled and you will hear but not "feel" it as much as the other low grunt subs. Again, it depends on ur preference. Typically a sub that is more for movies does not do that great for music as it would be too boomy and the sub that is controlled to supplement music would not give u the booms u would like for movies. As long as you understand that it is ok. It is still sufficient for you to hear the blasts and the explosions just not the earth shattering shake! Hope it clears it up.

PS. I am no pro man...I wish I was.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: May 1 2009, 11:20 AM

Correct. The flatter profile is typically prefered. T1 look at the curve from 50-100Hz, pretty good. Below 50Hz it rolls off pretty fast. It will not reproduce 20Hz well, if at all. Watch out about the JL5113 curve, yes it is good but it is at 90dB. You will typically get a good response at higher dBs but I doubt you can listen at that level for long. 75dB to 80dB is the normal listening level. The CHT-12Q Eq-ed looks pretty good. I think there is a new SVS, Audyssey product due out to equalize subs, 2 or more subs as well.

Make no mistake, it a power packed sub. The curves are flat and it puts out serious dBs...

Wow...r u happy with the sound now? Does is lower the response of the sub since isolation is improved?

Actually, the only problem would be god forbid you happen to be one of the unlucky ones, where there is a problem with the sub. Then not having a distributor would mean sending it back and all that, it then becomes a headache.

pierreye,
Agreed on this. Most internet sales companies are very good at this. As long as the buyer understands that there is some effort on his part in this then it is ok. I say this because Dell uses the same concept in troubleshooting problems, but it pisses malaysians off.