I resigned in January, but the last time I went back to visit my friends, they say now they see the scams very seriously, many people get caught lately.

And one advice on scamming/pakat-ing, if you want to attract the croupier's attention to pakat, you've gotta get big bankroll, most dealers don't bother with small fish, since with big fish, their customer can normally get close to 10k in 1 -2 hours, and normal split is 7:3. I heard they place microphones in Hollywood Roulette tables, but i cannot confirm this. All I could say it, do so at your own risk, if you end up in lock-up, tough luck then.

As to the sour face, it's not really that the dealers could help it, sometimes when I felt happy, I would smile and try to get the numbers in Roulette with the highest bets, but most of the time, seeing those uncle and auntie talk shit all the time, you'd felt like slapping them and getting them to shut up.
As with the dealers dealing the card games, how would u feel if the customers decide to blow their cigarette smoke your way?

Croupiers cannot predict the future. And there is no 100% success rate in getting the number on the wheel. Heck, most RL dealers who scam are aiming for a range of numbers, normally, 15 numbers, to be exact, 7 numbers to the left and right of zero seems to be the popular range since most auntie and uncles bet there. Getting numbers in that range will surely attract a lot of attention and a lot of bets, probably to distract the surveillance since they are so many people there, can't know who exactly is the one that is pakating. The fact that some newbies could probably get the same result when he is not pakat-ing, you can't say that the dealer is scamming unless you have solid proof.

Anyways, no one can predict the future, the only thing the dealer does is either adjust the wheel speed to spin a little bit faster or spin the ball slower. There is a standard of 25 Rev per minute, but nobody follows it.

Most dealers know that RL could be manipulated, RL dealers or not. That's the reason why when there's heavy action and the table is losing money, the assistant managers would come and observe the wheel and ball spin. When it goes out of hand, the order is normally to do " Fast Wheel, Fast Spin", the would make the ball drop randomly because most people buy the same range, it would make people lose. Another inside news is that most new dealers are trained in RL, since most of them have no prior knowledge that results could be manipulated to some degree. And it is very rare for senior croupiers to crosstrain to RL.

If you don't believe me, there's nothing much I could do could I?The 2 year ban, I have no idea.

Normally the ones who get caught are they stupid ones. They either allow fresh bets, i.e, betting after the ball has dropped, or they delibrately give more cash chips. As to the recent monitoring, I don't really have a clue since most of the knowledge is based on hearsay.

By the way, contrary to other casinos, NO TIPPING IS ALLOWED in Genting. Whether the table is losing money or making money, genting pays you the same. Get more respect? I don't know, but all I know is that the dealers used the techniques learnt to avoid working. Since when people start losing money, they leave, hence, less work, less calculation. When the ball drops into the numbers where there's less betting, less work to be done. Lucky for the gamblers, nobody could get it right 100% of the time, on some days maybe, but not all the time and sometimes when you try each and every way, the ball still drops into the areas with the most bets, Get some, lose some...


As to your graph, pardon me for saying this, but 384 spins in 8 hours? That's 48 spin per hour. On days when games are fast, I average about 25-28 games per 1hour 20 minute cycle, and for weekends with heavy actions, about 15-20 game per 1hour 20 minutes, 48 games is way too much.
Even the electronics roulette, i.e. Touch Bet Roulette in Hollywood, the most I did was about 30 - 40 games, rarely touching 48 games, but if you graph is based on real data, then do try to prove me wrong.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 16 2008, 05:40 PM

So, if let's say I let the ball land in 35, 28, 12, 29, 7, 32, 25, 32, 0, 5, 17, 1, series wouldn't be random would it? Out of the 12 numbers, only 3 numbers are not in the 'zero-area'. I'm actually curious as to how the software works.

So based on your knowledge, if there's is a 'phenomenal movement, what will the security team do? Because I've never seen anyone get caught or something, let alone get warned by the security to make the spins more random.

Anyway, I did not post this in the last thread and this might be news to you.

The thing about phenomenal movement is, or 'magical' capability is that one dealer only deals the same table for 1h 20 minutes and it averages 15 - 20 games if there's 'phenomenal movements' since it'll attract a lot of attention and games would be slow, how are you going to fault the dealer for having this 'magical' capability, since, well, it's only 15 - 20 spins and that alone is enough for the wheel analyzer to work or something? Since the dealer changes every 1h 20minutes, would the software add up all the spins by the different dealer and conclude that it's 99% random, or is the statement based on analysis for each 1h 20 minute cycle? Every dealer has different style in their 'magical' capability and I think the analyzer might deem this as, well.....random. Because as I said before, 1hour 20 minutes is sufficient for dealers to make money by pakat-ing with the customers.

I see most people are sceptical of this 'magical' capability. Unless you have went in and deal a game yourself, I can't really blame you. Let me explain more about this style thing. Btw, spin means the speed of the ball.

A new dealer - Normally they don't know how to manipulate the results. They keep the wheel revs the same, and spin the ball as hard as they could since there were told to do so in training. So, results 'might' be random

A dealer who has 'magical capability' - There are 2 types, in general from what I saw. 1 goes for fast wheel fast spin, another is slow wheel, slow spin. I'd bet the security could see this for themselves. For each type of wheel, there are different 'techniques'. And the number of 'obstacles' - those shiny metal parts that makes the ball jump once they slow down matters as well. The style for the 'spoon' type and 'square bracket' type differs. The size of the ball matters as well. You couldn't really tell the size of the ball from....the top or as a customer, unless u really compare it, or you have touched it before.

There are 3 types of wheel of wheel for the 'spoon' type wheel differrentiable from the colour. Normally the yellow one makes the ball jump a lot, and is harder to manipulate, hence, random results. And the ones in IR, VIP etc are black and is much fancier but has the same 'scoop' as the yellow wheel.

For square brackets, the there are also 2 types, one has a deeper bracket, another is shallower.

The condition of the wheel, the small groove on the wheel that lets the ball travel matters, some are well, dirty and makes a loud noise, and makes the ball go slower as well, some are smooth, like the one for the electronics and makes the ball goes around 30 - 40 rounds before slowing down and drop when you spin it as hard as you can.

As to the 'obstacles' that I mentioned, there are certain spots on the wheel that when you start spining, at a particular spin speed, the ball would avoid the 'obstacle' and drop directly onto the wheel.

I almost forgot about the one with triangle brackets. Try to avoid it if the results are not 'random' enough.

There are so many factors in play that I can't really call it 'magical' anymore. It all depends on touch and it takes 2-3 spins for a dealer to get a 'touch' for the wheel. As I said before, on some wheel, no matter what you do, you can't get the 'touch', and the numbers go random. On times when you get the 'touch' and is lazy to work, the ball drops into places where there's less bet. Since this 'touch' thing is so subjective, from what I saw, there's no 100% success rate in getting it right.

I have no idea what tcsJohnHuxley did in producing the analyzer, but since the 'magical' way in manipulating result is so subjective, and sometimes lasts for 1 wheel, that is 1h 20 minutes, and the next dealer for that particular wheel has different style, how does the analyzer say what is random and what isn't random?

Would you care to explain more as to how the analyzer works?

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 17 2008, 12:52 PM

The term you are looking for is embezzlement.

"The largest uncaught and prolonged crimed in Malaysia" perhaps.

I think you can use embezzlement to sue these people.

"Menggelapkan wang syarikat", since well, the croupiers are stealing money from the company and embezzlement carries jail sentence I believe.

In Roulette, look for newbie dealers, normally they don't know how to spin, and their games are rather slow. The chips on their tables are rather messy.

Those dealers, once they get trapped in a certain area, very hard for them to spin to another area, at that point, you pounce and bet. However, like all strategies, there's a tradeoff, and this involves using large amount of time looking at the dealer and then only bet, instead of betting right away.

Well, as a former roulette dealer, I believe I can manipulate the results. When I see people who act like he is so rich come and play in a cheap table, I would purposely let him lose. When the manipulation works, there will be a pattern there, but he won't make money, or he will make very little.

But I digress. I'm sure joehan would be thinking, if the dealers knows "the way of the wheel", why doesn't he study the dealer's spin and go make his own money. I thought of this as well. The day I quit, I went into StarWorld to minimize detection, and decided to study how the dealer spins. I am cash strapped and so, wouldn't be considering gambling even for fun, for now, so all I did was watch.

My conclusion was this, before the dealer spins the ball, nothing is affected. Once he spins it, you can find out which area the ball will drop. The area might or might not be the area the dealer wants the ball drops, but once the ball is released, the place it will drop is 80% of the time, predictable. This conclusion is also based on the time when I spin the ball myself. Sometimes when the ball goes too fast or too slow from the speed I want, I won't get the area I want, but I know which area it will drop.

And then comes this, most of the dealer in Genting, once he spins the ball, within 5 seconds or so, he will ring the bell. 5 seconds is not enough for you to bet the numbers, but is enough for the Dozen and Column Bets, i.e. the 1 pay 2 bets. You need to cover two bets and play big to win. I never do the math, but I'd think this has a good success rate, provided your prediction is correct.

Back to the guy you mentioned, he made profits yes, but it wasn't consistent. So I'd think he succeeded, but he find it very very hard to be repeated. I'll have to partially agree with his conclusion, since I as a dealer couldn't always know the next number that comes up before I spin the ball. I don't really understand the whole "Dealer Signature" thing that he mention but what I can say is, it all depends on the speed of the ball. Once start spinning, then only you can predict the outcome, provided the wheel speed stays the same.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 18 2008, 01:58 PM

My bad my bad, sorry. Not 5 seconds. But I would term the time as, fast enough for you to cover the dozen bets, not enough time to buy the numbers, it's definitely <30 seconds.

Well, I'd believe part of your ketchup. Most 'expert' spinners in the casino always let ball go slow, as slow as possible, and the wheel speed to go with it. However, the regulation states you have to do a minimum of 4 Revs around the wheel in Genting, if not, you'll get a warning. Even if you do more than 4, if it's 4 <= rev <= 10, you'll attract the attention of the assistant managers/pitboss.

What I don't understand about the article you posted is, the first part says the 'techniques' of spinning, the second part dismisses it.

The first part says exactly what i learnt from my time in Genting. The predetermined point and such. i.e, say you want numbers close to zero, so you start spinning the ball at zero, and most of the time, the ball drops around zero. The problem is dealers are not allowed to look at the wheel while spinning. So, everyone just agak agak, when they pick up the ball, let say the previous num was 29, European Wheel, and the let the wheel spin further a bit, it should be around zero, and there you go. The article does say many factors play into getting the numbers right, and I totally agree. Even if the wheel speed and ball spin is consistent, there are factors that would let the ball jump to another section all together. But all this depends on the design of the wheel itself. Since my experience is based on Genting, and as I said before, most of the wheels are fairly predictable, except the yellow one and the shallow square bracket one.

Remember the Cubans? They laughed and said, “If we could do that, do you think we’d still be working?”. Well, if I could do that, I'll make sure I get to do Roulette everyday and pakat with customer, don't I. Why would I want to leave? The way to do that is go part-time dealing. I learnt 1 game, RL only, so if i decides to go work in the weekends, I'll for sure deal Roulette. But since my skills aren't perfect, I'd be better off studying. The last time I went there, I came about this same wheel that I dealt before, from what i recalled, it was fast wheel and fast spin, and the area would repeat, within 6 - 8 numbers, and yes, it did, for about 3 - 4 games. But I lost touch, and lost it. I assume you would think 3 - 4 games is not enough to prove anything, and I'd would have to agree, but for that 3 - 4 games, I got the areas of number and I wanted.

In the end, it's 2 sides, believers and non-believers. You are the non, I'm the the believer, but believer as I am, I'd think this 'skill' is part art, part science, since it all depends on the 'touch'. Lose the 'touch, lose the control of the result.s

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 18 2008, 07:13 PM

Sorry for the confusion there.

Like I said, I don't have perfect skills, and I can only predict the result once the ball spins, that's why I'm not gambling, since my prediction x consistent. If consistent, would I sit here and tell you about the type of wheels?

If I can spin whatever number I want, I'll work there and make easy money instead of talking cock here no? Besides, all my friends that is the same intake with me already crosstrain other games, pontoon, MB, etc.....rarely do Roulette already. So if I stay there, I doubt it that I get to deal Roulette. If I work part-time, after not dealing for a while, need to learn everything again, so, might as well go study.

And there's no need to divide the sector or whatever. Just remember the numbers on the wheel. Took me 1 month to remember them, not that I delibrately go remember them, eventually I just remember it like that after working a while.

In genting, they tried to prevent dealers from talking to customers. I doubt they did anything honestly, and that's why some many former dealers are telling you stories on how people cheat money from casino. Genting makes millions of RM everyday, and 100k a day flow out would be serious, but not serious enough that there's a crackdown or something. Heck, they are getting new dealers every 2 weeks and most of them train in Roulette to replace the senior dealers. They are trying to prevent people from cheating their money.

You want to know? Before this, this guide is to help you make prediction only, making money is another thing since I cannot guarantee you can get it right all the time.

I can't really tell you which wheel does what since I haven't been there for quite a while, but I'll try recall from memory. But I'll tell you what to observe. But first you'll have to know each number on the wheel, or just grab a piece of those papers on the RL table and watch.

Monitor the wheel speed and ball speed, and the ball size, the number the ball is at, wheel type. Try to make a connection.

Wheel type 1st bracket or spoon type or triangle type. Ball size, once you determine the size, no need to take it into account, but be wary that big ball and smaller ball give different results for the same type of wheel.
When it's time to spin, look at the wheel speed, fast or slow, or normal, just agak agak will do. So then, the number. See what number it is at, once the dealer takes the ball and spin, see which number/area that the ball was launched. Now the speed of the ball matters. If it's very loud, means it's fast, and vice versa, no need to count how many rounds the ball make, but if you want accuracy, it might help a little. Write them down and make your prediction at the next game.

Example : Table: I'll tell you the place where I get assigned the most, since I remember it better.

Monte Carlo lower floor, left most table outer right, this one should be Bracket Wheel, Dark Brown. Ball Size: Normally smaller ball is used for this table. If I remember correctly, for this type of wheel, Fast wheel, Fast spin, gives results that jumps the area across, i.e. 0 area to 5 area.
For the same type of wheel, but bigger ball, fast wheel and fast spin gives Repeat result.

For the same group of table, the inner most, nearest to the slot machine, that one is spoon type, with silver lining. Normally use big ball and fast wheel and fast spin, the ball would travel quite far once it drops, but fast wheel and fast spin would result in repeat result.

The above only serves as a guide. I bear no responsibility if you bet all your money and lose all of it based on what I said. It all depends on your observation, what may be deemed as fast wheel by others may be ultra fast or normal speed wheel, so it's changes from one person to another. and all of this depends on your own observation.

You could see that this is very very subjective, that's why you could dismiss it. But work 2 -3 months in casino, I always try to predict the outcome once I spin the ball, it is never 100% accurate, sometimes, it goes way out of range.

To those who dismiss this way of predicting the outcome, the way in which it is used is closed to guessing the outcome. However, I wish to say that at least you get something to base your prediction on, instead of blindly predicting it, or play some system other progressive system.
Good Luck!!

I just realized why the casino doesn't really take action, but more on that later.

I did not enter Hollywood, I just said that I heard people telling me the existence of microphones under the table or something, but of course I cannot confirm this. I entered Starworld 2 days after I quit, I was of the assumption that StarWorld and Main Casino CSOD are different, I might be wrong, but the StarWorld one does seem to be more strict. But I digress, i went in there wore like some kampung guy from China, I'd bet it might not attract their attention that much. But it doesn't matter now since I didn't get caught that time.

Well, as to the series of numbers that I gave you, it's just some random numbers that I came up with, I totally forgot about 26, 15, 4, 2 ,19 etc. Normally when I try to manipulate the result, I'll either get repeat number, or number that is opposite, so, when I failed, normally if i fail to make the numbers repeat, it won't garner any attention. However, at times when I can't get out of the repeats, no matter how I try, it does produce some attention, and heavy action at the table. From the story of scammers, they would get the numbers to repeat, of course it'd garner huge attention, then for one or two rounds, spin to somewhere else, and then get back to the "scamming" range. It'd might let him stay under the radar, I'm too lazy to do the math.

No software are perfect for these RL thing, and the same with the wheel analyzer. If the scammers does 15 numbers, and the numbers jump around within that 15 numbers, the sd would be close to, but I don't think it might raise any alarm, or would you want to enlighten us on this.

As to why Genting doesn't want to catch those people, this is my theory. Well, the money Genting makes compared to these 'leakages' should be rather small as I mentioned before. And one thing to note, the casino is always short of Dealers . Most of the time, the OT list has a lot of names on it, and there are rarely any spare dealers. But come end of December to around April, that time, Genting will have more dealers than it wants, or needs to. There will be a lot of spare dealers around, and Genting can catch some who make money and then probably scare people from commiting the scam.
Catch one, shame on the guy who got caught, catch two, good job Genting, catch three, everyone should be wary.

But for the rest of the time of the year, they wouldn't have enough dealers, and this means they can't spare more, since I'd think the money that the dealer brings in is more than the "leakage". Once the leakage becomes severe enough, it is "profitable" for Genting to sack them.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 19 2008, 06:28 PM

The easiest way to run away, is to tell the people, there's no 100% guarantee that it is always accurate. If you prepare say rm1k, and then lose it, I cannot be responsible, if you win Rm10k, you have to share with me, that's the terms, normally.

Why do you not see dealers drive Ferraris?
In foreign countries, I have no idea, in Genting, I have a slight idea. If for General Gaming Area, say you let the table lose, say.....100k to one person only, I'd certainly tell you, that you wouldn't have to deal Roulette for around one month. My friend paid this much, and he got this treatment. But let say you pay out 50k to one person, the next day you still dealing Roulette but you lose a lot of money, they are gonna send you to deal some game where it doesn't depend on you that the table win or lose.

The supervisors says that it is purely coincidental, unless there's anyone who works in the Casino Deployment before that's going to tell me it's coincidental, I'm gonna believe this coincidence.

You see, that's why they don't drive Ferraris. Once you become unprofitable to the company, they are gonna assign you somewhere else, where you become profitable. So the scammers try to grab as much as they can. And since the seniors gets trained in another game, the chances of them dealing Roulette becomes less and less. So there's no way RL dealers can drive a Ferrari, but they definitely can make a lot of money using this "Dealer signature" thing.

By the way, if you want to exploit this Dealer Signature thing, just act like you very rich, and bet a lot of money, a lot of money, a lot of money, attract the dealer's attention. Once the dealer tries to fish you, act like you bite, and make some quick buck while he spins to the places that you bet. You can run away and not share. But it will of course spark the dealer's ire, and you better not meet him the next time.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 19 2008, 08:56 PM

I don't know what is your intention of saying this, but I stand corrected. I may have contradicted myself in my statements and I shall not make attempt to hide it. But I wish to correct that statement. I am not 'god of luck' per se, but at the times when I can spin the areas I want, and that I am lazy to work, since the rich people would throw me this whole huge stack of cash, and then take all the chips of the same color on the table and bet them all in one go. Lazy as I am, I don't want to do the calculation and try to land the ball at sections where there are no bets. When I succeed, no work for me, when I don't, tons of work to be done. That's it. Most dealers would do this, of course, this would help Genting make money.

And why doesn't the casino let me do as I like, as long as it's within their written rules. It's not that I grab a whole stack of cash chips and stuff it in my sleeves or something. What I do was just spin the ball and vary the ball speed and wheel speed. At first I never realize anything, but the more I spin, the more I realize that if the wheel speed is kept this way, and the ball is at this pressure, suddenly the number is around a few pockets from the last. All the RL dealers would tell you it can be manipulated to some degree, but 100% accuracy is rare if not non-existant, but it exist. If the dealer says no, they've either not work long enough, or they just blank their mind and never care about the results, which doing so, would make the job extremely dull and boring. The fun in dealing Roulette is that you try to make yourself more accurate. If you fail and the ball lands in some place that has huge bets, tough luck. If you succeed, less work to be done, since you can make the ball land at areas where there are less bets. Whatever I say of course is limited to Genting Casino alone, since I have no idea how foreign casinos are like.

I don't understand why do you have to call the believers physco all the sudden? If you don't believe that dealer signature exist, then don't. What I was trying to do was to convince people that it exist, and if you, after reading all that is still not convinced, go Genting and pakat with some guy or get a job there or something. In the end thou, if you still don't want to belive it, it's not that I put a gun to your head that you'd believe it either.

You don't believe you can share your ideas and whatever articles or sources you have in hand or came across and post it here, not calling people psycho and then ask believers, like me to get their heads checked. If you want to attack me based on something that I accidentally left behind or not mention and then only clarifying things when people notice it, it's not that I can do anything about it either.

And about the IR wheel, they are nice. Though the I like the one in IR Rapid Roulette, those Rapid RL wheels are nice overall.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 19 2008, 11:32 PM

That was the issue regarding the "Dealer Signature" thing, not about how to bet or win money in casino since there are certain people in here that doesn't believe it.

You asked for some sort of guide to make predicting the numbers that's going to come out, and I typed out whatever I know already. You can try google "Dealer Signature" and most things they say about the Dealer Signature thing is about wheel speed and ball speed etc, which is whatever I typed before.

If you want other sorts of guide, I can't give you, because I don't know any, other than using Dealer Signature to try win some money. It's not that all the guides give 100% sure win method anyways.

I'm afraid the argument would let people win more money and I doubt debating about whether Dealer Signature exists or not would help it either. But you don't want to read these, then don't lah, who asked you to read? skip these and read the parts where there's some sort of guide to help you make money only.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 19 2008, 11:36 PM

Honestly you don't lose anything except some time to go the casino, the next time you go there. and just look at the dealer dealing and make your predictions, though you might think otherwise. I make no effort in looking for other sources but that particular source you had doesn't exactly dismiss dealer signature.

I don't really want to argue the validity of the article after I read it since it sounded convincing, but I cannot dismiss what I saw during my time in genting. And the blackjack thing, from my friends dealing pontoon, they realise the results would go different it they pull the card faster since the shuffler would turn faster, but I don't really know about it, I mentioned it just to tell you that there are card dealers in genting who thinks that can happen as well..

You ask all the dealers in genting, and most of them would tell you it's doable.

You only showed one spin, so here goes. Shallow Bracket type, with bigger ball, normally would just jump around and make the results random. The wheel speed was normal wheel, ball speed was fast. Ball was launched around 33/1/14. I couldn't see properly but it should be there. So it's either repeat to drop few pockets around, or goes across. This one, should go across.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure you are going to flame me for this, but this wheel is the same type in Latte Touch Bet in Genting, not my favourite, and I'm phobia to the wheel there since the ball jumped out couple of times. I'm afraid all I did has a high percentage of guess work, and I couldn't really apply Dealer Signature thing. And the fact is, normally you need 1 to 2 spins to how the wheel goes before you can predict. I have no confidence in this and it might go out of range this prediction. Flame all you want, you've found my weakness. But if there's anyone who is good at this particular wheel, go predict the number. If I get it, lucky me, if I'm wrong, shame on me.

This post has been edited by kaiserreich: Aug 20 2008, 06:30 PM

The HR people are management trainees, they are dealing for the feel of it, once they are done, they become Ass. Managers.

A. After swipe in card, normally the description is written. Amongst other reasons, to track your winnings, see where the money on the table has gone to
B. Dealer go resting-lah. Casino regular? You didn't know dealers rests every 1h 20minutes. After that time, change dealer lagi la.
C. Table chips habis, how to pay if no more chips? Normally Refill Chip is done when chip count is low.
D. Table so many people, sure naik harga, make more money.
E. Genting Points. The cards has to be swipe in and out every 2 hours. If not some people throw their card there and get "Free points", tak boleh right?