Unfortunately, like what someone said earlier in the postings, enh shammy had to prove themselves useful to the raid most of the time, otherwise they'll be shoved to chain healing duty like every other good shaman out there

Good raiders WILL actually include enh shammy to actually boost up their overall melee dps, that is one single fact that can't be ignored. Believe it or not, enh shammy WILL be and SHOULD be at top 5 dps if not top 3 if they've proper itemizations (at par with the rest of the raid). The only drawback is the sometimes obscene amount of DPS burst they get from time to time.

Whoever that said latency is no big deal had to be lying out of their mouth, or just plain ignorant on the subject altogether :S

That's my 2 cents.

I'm a ds/destro lock. Top 5 of my guild's dps'er before I stopped raiding altogether.
Rogues spec'ed correctly WILL be top 3. Lock will be dominating top 5 if there's more than 3 of them in the raid (yes, if you know iSB).
I've raided with a good enh shammy, and yes, they do have obscene dps, higher than mine at times if it doesn't involve too much runnings.

Latency affects the things 'cept for white attacks.
10sec CD. Say you lag about .5 seconds on fights. 1 seconds if you factor in stuffs like button mashing and other shits. that's 11sec CD rounded. Say in a 1 minute fight. Instead of 6 SS, you can now only cast 5 SS. Instead of 5 FS that runs the full duration, you'll get perhaps 4.5/4.6 FS full duration. Perhaps it doesn't make much difference to you, but do some calculations on it.

This feels like a dumbed down EJ discussion.

Let's do this again.

How many totems do you cast?
How many shocks do you cast?
How many SS do you cast?

Warlock only need to take care of 1 buttons, albeit one finger on shatter and one finger on CoS or CoD(if you're not on CoS duty). That's simple CD watching, and you'll already need to spend your time looking at the Quartz to minimize effects of lags.

Now let's talk about the subject here, shaman.
You've to think about a minimum of 3 different totems, 2 different shocks, SS and aggros. All of which affects each others. All of them depends on your lag and loss of gcd thru it. In which way does latency NOT affect your dps performance? It adds up for a boss encounter that lasts anywhere from 5 minutes to 10 minutes and you say it doesn't matter? That you'll 1k ms to be affected by it...? *cough*bull*cough*shit*cough

....

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Added on June 18, 2008, 3:16 pmI critted with first 2 SB, and pulled aggro after giving 10k threat headstart to the tank on moro once.. and wiped the raid..

I agree with you there, it's based more on damage and experience, and whether you'll think the next damage you deal crits or not..

This post has been edited by PinkyBleu: Jun 18 2008, 03:25 PM

They changed the API so you can actually QUEUE for the action at a more suitable moment instead of having to /stopcast on every single spell that requires it. In other words, it's auto cancel casting now. It's been implemented since 2.3 or 2.2, I ain't sure. No they didn't ban it, they just changed it so it won't work. Why would it if they already provided an alternative for it?

Totem twisting is not done all the time thru the fight, unless of course if you actually PLAYED one in a RAID environment, you'll know there's no way a SHAMMY can sustain the mana for it.

Hands somewhere else when you're in a raid? I thought that's what you did when you talked to us about white damage a few posts up.

Now you're talking about cancel castings and gcds, the use of quartz to maximize casting time...

Ain't no smoke without no fire...

I'll PM you my extra 3sen I got from him so it'll make it 5sen that he needed as pre-req to post.

No, the animation on the client side will be slightly faster after the patch, queueing actions on the server side for the next casting. Second casting animation that comes after goes slightly faster, to accomodate for the next casting. (trying to correct the time needed)
The cancel cast in the other hand, sends a stop casting on the client side cancelling the animation. You dont' have to wait for the casting animation to finish up before casting the the next. BIG difference there.

So after dropping your totems, minusing the GCD you've to use to actually recall and refresh your totems, how much time you're left with? What about SS, and shock? Those are casts. Casts eats GCD. GCD affected by latency. Cast time affected by latency. Trinket popping affected by latency. Heck, running around reaching boss if he moves are affected by latency. Hence DPS affected by latency.

.. but oh wait.. all enh shaman need to do on a raid boss is wait for white damage while occassionally wait for shocks..... oh and maybe wait for windfury to proc too.

Yeah, cause I googled for IP address for WoW in Malaysia to see if anyone got any better IPs leads me here. Replied to someone with same problem with mine on the lag spike issues, and this thread.

From the looks of things, I will be out by dinner time tonite too

DPS are affected by latency. Do we have a consensus on that one? That's the argument had been about since I started posting on this thread.



Not true, you've no idea what you're talking about on this one.



Quickcasts uses the same idea as stop castings.



Quick heal? Insta-casts? (I mentioned my main is a ds/destro warlock and I try to minimize latency issues thru the uses of Quartz! This is for my destro warlock! What does that have to do with the argument that DPS is not affected by latency?)

Moving costs time, jumping costs time, now you're adding time loss through that + latency. This is not PvP.



....

Assuming :
Standing still on a perfect environment where your latency = 0, no lag in casting. Perfect button timing. 10minutes boss encounter. No aggro.

Casting spell A, 2.5sec cast time, 1000 damage per cast.

Damage : 24 casts per minute, 240 casts 10 minutes. 240,000 damage.

Assuming :
Standing still on a perfect environment where your latency = 500ms, no lag in casting. Perfect button timing. 10minutes boss encounter. No aggro.

Casting spell A, 2.5sec cast time, 1000 damage per cast.
2.6sec cast time, 1000 damage per cast.

Damage : 23 casts per minute, 230 casts 10 minutes. 230,000 damage.


This is not insta cast spells. You want those?

Assuming :
Standing still on a perfect environment where your latency = 0, no lag in casting. Perfect button timing. 10minutes boss encounter. No aggro.

Casting spell B, instant cast , 1000 damage per cast.

Damage : 400 casts per minute, 400 casts 10 minutes. 400,000 damage.

Assuming :
Standing still on a perfect environment where your latency = 500ms, no lag in casting. Perfect button timing. 10minutes boss encounter. No aggro.

Casting spell B, instant cast, 1000 damage per cast.

Damage : 38.7 casts per minute, 387 casts 10 minutes. 387,000 damage.


This is just basic calculations, discounting crits, resists, misses.
Conclusion? Latency affects DPS.




Compared to what I suggested on (stopcasting, use of Quartz, auto queue option), yes.

This post has been edited by PinkyBleu: Jun 18 2008, 06:05 PM

Was I b!tch!ng because...

1. I broke your bubble of being a 'so-called' pro? Or
2. ... umm wait.. there is no 2.


You don't have half the idea what you talk about on PVE raiding, you dont' respect half the idea/comment put out to you on a nice tone, and you're blaming others on name calling?

WTF man, I'm out of this forum for good. Thanks for the nice hospitality so far.

Less than 24 hours too, wow.