Big boy already, not in Primary or Secondary school. The education system is different.

Lecturer only teach us the basic, we have to go to the depth by own effort.

I think you are referring to Uk Transfer Degree. As compared to University of LOndon,  DTP is more lenient as they do not need to cover everything.
If you were to shift to HELP, the result would be same, borrow your word ' touch and go'. Nonetheless, they are of the aim to not spoon feeding you. If you want to score, you need to do more extra works.

what course are you doing at BAC? not sure whether you've stated this before...apologise if you have. DTP I presume.

I know for a fact that for a certain law prog, the BAC lecturers do give their students the exam questions beforehand.

(a)Lecturer's problem
Firstly, i can tell you, some lecturers do like to chit chat and talk nothing relevant in the class though i have not experienced any but i heard a lot from my friends.
Hmmm, Lecturers crapping CLP in class? thats interesting. Who is that? 

lol...Even Taylors law school, i know one lecturer teaching Public law and Common Law Reasoning, he gives everything they need and read from the note.( is that the so called 'guideline'?His favourite is not teaching law but a motivational talk instead.

Every schools have got good and bad lecturers. Depending on how you interpret and whats a 'good' lecturer in your mind. For me, a good lecturer can make law as a lively subject. A Professor in Uni of Reading may know many thing in and out for law, but he may not be a good lecturer as in the way he presents leads us to the mindset that law is boring.

Regardless, undeniably, BAC has some lecturers which is just not up to the par in my view but not much?( Who am i to judge them right?)Another thing, in relation with lecturer teaching or answering the wrong thing, just tell them ! As i did last time but the lecturer does not seem to be liking me.I experienced once last year, where it was an unforgivable mistake. Anyway, he has now improved and i think he is now doing great, or at least, better.

(b) Guideline?

Are you saying, in BAC, they didnt give you a guideline? Ermm, as for me, my lecturers do give us guideline which i dislike it. Means we are following them and we are on the right track? This makes law such a dull and dry course ! To a certain extent if i really lost, i will open my mouth and ask for 'guideline'.

Without a doubt,to my mind, spoon feeding is almost a culture in Malaysia. Be it ATC, BAC, KDU, Taylors or HELP, depending on whats spoon feeding to you.
In UK, you will also notice the lecturers will not be teaching everything but whatever is covered in your exams too. Of course, no Q and A. That doesnt mean they aiming you to only pass, right? Same goes to what happened to you, you can stand out of the crowd. You do not need to follow the so called Q&A ( just get to know what topic is likely to come out is more than sufficient).

If you asked those academicians from Northumbria, Cardiff, Abersywyth and so on, you will be surprised whats their reaction when they realised we actually have 3 hours per lecture. For them, this is spoon feeding.

Do it your own way. I did it for my first year and so can you. But i agree with you, they need to improve. Giving out questions is definitely not the way. I have also told the management. Hopefully they will do something about it especially now they having more UK universities entering in partnership with them. In order to achieve a higher standard, scrutiny process is needed instead of just merely to pass students. That culture should not even be in existence.

P/S:I attended Prof. Wayne Morrison lectures and he is of the opinion that, BAC students are more creative as compared to others.Maybe thats the effect of not giving 'guidelines'? We as a student,law student, should have done research on our own. The lecturers know about those recent development in law but they might not have told us. I once read some recent developments, and i went on to ask them, you will be surprise they know it more than i have found with their own opinion and analysis. They are happy with us doing more researches.

If you managed to qualify and be entered on the roll of Solicitors in England then you will be a qualified person under the present section 3 LPA

BM is not a must for CLP....

You need to understand how admission to the bar works. It is very simple and systematic.

1st, you need to be a qualified person before you can even petition to be admitted as an advocate and solicitor in the high court of malaya.

the next question is, are you a qualified person?

you can find the answer in section 3. CLP is a qualification that will make you a qualified person. The same goes to a solicitor in England.

BM is an additional requirement that a qualified person must satisfy before he can be admitted to the bar.

It does not affect your status as a qualified person.



Also, CLP and the qualification as a Solicitor in England are qualifications that would enable the holder to be a qualified person under the LPA because of the recognition by the Qualifying Board.

The same does not apply to qualifications such as barrister-at-law in England, UM, NUS graduates and a few others. These are recognised by the statute specifically and not by the qualifying board.

1.0 Objective and purpose of this thread

This thread was started due to my interest as a student and it is meant to act as a point of reference for legal studies as well as to consolidate relevant questions. Its object among other things is to reduce the confusion and misconception as regards to the profession as well as to the legal studies. As the admission procedures and requirements differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, I will be concentrating on the admission as an Advocate and Solicitor to the High Court of Malaya.

Therefore, feel free to discuss relevant questions or experiences in this thread so as to improve and build upon the wealth of knowledge in the Education Essentials section.
2.0 Nature of the legal profession

Being a lawyer is not a mere profession in the sense of completing the required task and earning an income for it. There are other important roles connected to the legal profession. According to Lord Denning, a lawyer is a social guardian. A lawyer has an extra responsibility in society because a lawyer would have the required training and knowledge to speak about social injustice and abuse of power.

Therefore, a lawyer is regarded as a social commentator. He is given the duty to ensure that the social values and rights are taken care of. Human rights and public rights would be issues that are of paramount importance to lawyers. It is a lawyer's endeavour to ensure the rights of the society will not be infringed especially by powerful individuals or the state and these are lawyers' responsibility to society.

Whenever any form of social injustice such as the oppression of labourer and citizens and the exploitation of any weaker section of the society occurs, it will be crucial that these form of injusice are corrected and be brought to the attention of the people and hopefully through the powers of media, it will be brought to the attention of the whole community.

Besides that, when any form of manipulation by the powerful occurs in a society, it is the lawyer's bounden duty to ensure that any form of such abuse of position and corruption be highlighted. These lines of argument are basically the 'supposed' reasonings why lawyers do what they do when there is any form of injustice and oppression in society especially when this injustice is committed for the achievement of self-interest by the powerful.

'practising members of the profession are in the best position to spot necessary changes in the law...... it is their duty to draw public attention to the need for change whenever it arises. Lawyers owe this duty to their fellow citizens' - speech given in 1981 at the Sixth Malaysian Law Conference by the late Tun Suffian, former Lord President of the Federal Court.

3.0 Who is a qualified person for purposes of Section 10 of the Legal Profession Act 1976 to be admitted as an Advocate and Solicitor of the High Court?

Part 1 Section 3 of the Legal Profession Act 1976 defines a 'qualified person' to be any person who -

( a ) has passed the final examination leading to the degree of Bachelor of Laws of the University of Malaya, the University of Malaya in Singapore, the University of Singapore or the National University of Singapore;

( b ) is a barrister-at-law of England; or

( c ) is in possession of such other qualification as may by notification in the Gazette be declared by the Board to be sufficient to make a person a qualified person for the purposes of this Act;
4.0 What are the steps to become a lawyer in Malaysia

4.1 Local Public Universities

Currently there are 5 Law Faculties in local public universities -
1. Universiti Malaya in Kuala Lumpur;
2. Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia in Bangi, Selangor;
3. International Islamic University in Gombak, Selangor;
4. Universiti Teknologi MARA in Shah Alam, Selangor; and
5. Universiti Utara Malaysia in Sintok, Kedah.

The current procedure to gain admission into the Malaysian Bar via the abovementioned Universities are as follows :-

STPM/Matriculation -> Bachelor of Laws/LLB (4 yrs) -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar(full right of audience)

4.2 National University of Singapore
The pathway for NUS is apparently the same as local public universities with the exception of STPM where A levels or it's equivalent is recognised.

4.3 Local Private University

There is currently a local private university law degree (MMU) which is pending recognition by the Qualifying Board.

The procedures are as follows :-
STPM/A Levels/Foundation/other recognised qualification by the University -> Bachelor of Laws (4 yrs)
Once it has been recognised -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage for a further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

4.4 Local External Law Degree
The local External Law Degree mirrored against the University of London's External Law Degree is the Bachelor of Jurisprudence(External) from University Malaya. The route is the same as a foreign university route.

4.5 Foreign Law Degree

In order for a foreign law degree to be recognised, the candidate must obtain at least 3 credits in one sitting for the SPM Examination or its equivalent and also obtain at least 2 principal passes in one sitting for the STPM Examination or its equivalent and the candidate must use these results to enter into the law programme with the respective University. An exception to this would be the mature student entry route which would require the mature student to satisfy the abovementioned SPM requirement in addition to a minimum of 5 years proven working experience in the related field and also the special panel of the University admitting the mature student must declare that the mature student is suitable and proficient to follow the law programme and this must be done in concurrence with the Legal Profession Qualifying Board(hereinafter referred to as LPQB). Therefore, the mature route is subjected to the LPQB's discretion and it is best if the LPQB is contacted directly with regard to recognition of the relevant law degree. Once the abovementioned entry requirement is satisfied the route will be as follows :-

Recognised foreign law degrees (check with LPQB due to the list being frequently updated) -> CLP -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

*There is a requirement of a lower second class honours for University of London (External) Law graduates in gaining recognition for their degrees from the LPQB but the same rule does not apply to Internal Students.
5.0 Alternative Route to become a lawyer in Malaysia pursuant to Section 3 para b and c of the Legal Profession Act 1976

5.1 Pathway to become a Barrister-at-law of England and Wales

The stages to become a barrister is divided into two. The first being the academic stage and the second being the vocational stage. Successful completion of these two will entitle the qualification holder to be called to the English Bar. The law degree must be a recognised law degree so as to satisfy the academic stage .

Once the academic stage is completed, the candidate will then proceed to apply for the vocational stage. This is where the candidate would have to apply for a place with the 10 accredited providers of the Bar Vocational Course(hereinafter referred to as the BVC, formerly known as the Bar Exams) and this is done during the final year of the law degree.

The candidate is recommended to join one of the four Inns of Court(Inner Temple, Middle Temple, Lincoln's Inn and Gray's Inn) once he or she has made up his or her mind in becoming a barrister anytime during his or her law degree.

However, once the candidate has been accepted into the BVC, h/she will have to submit the application to become a student member of one of the Inns before 31st May of the year the BVC is expected to commence. After the candidate successfully complete the BVC, he/she will be entitled to be called to the English Bar (without any right of audience) as long as the 12 Qualifying Sessions(Formerly known as Dining Sessions) with their respective Inn are completed.

In order for a Barrister to exercise his or her right of audience in England, a minimum of 12 months pupillage contract as well as specified Continuing Professional Training must be completed within a prescribed period.

Alternatively, should the barrister decide to practice in Malaysia pursuant to Section 3 para b of the Legal Profession Act 1976, the route would
be as follows :-

pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

Please refer to http://www.bvconline.co.uk/ for more information regarding the application
Updated: I would like to bring everyone's attention to the Bar Professional Training Course that is due to replace the Bar Vocational Course. The revised course is expected to start in 2010. The passing mark will be increased by 5% from 60% to 65%. There will no longer be 3 attempts for the failed module. There will only be 1 attempt.

The most significant of all would be the Aptitude Test that is required before being eligible to enrol for the Bar Professional Training Course.

The implementation of the entrance examination and the new course (with new syllabus) is in line with Derek Woods QC's recommendation in 2008.

Please contact the Bar Standards Board for further information.



5.2 Pathway to become a Barrister-at-Law of Dublin

The pathway is basically almost the same as the path to become an English Barrister except that the academic stage must be recognised by King's Inn(The Subjects required are different) in addition to sitting for an entrance examination prior to the candidate proceeding for the Bar examinations. Successful completion of the Bar examination would enable to student to be called to the Irish Bar. This is sufficient to practice in Malaysia as King's Inn, Dublin Barrister-at-Law is recognised by the LPQB.

Should the barrister decide to practice in Ireland, the barrister would then have to complete a minimum of 12 months of Devilling.

Please refer to http://www.kingsinns.ie/website/index.htm for more information regarding the entrance examination

5.3 Pathway to become a Solicitor of the Supreme Court of Judicature England

The overview is basically the same as a Barrister-at-law in England with the exception of the vocational stage as well as the Inns.
A prospective solicitor will have to apply for the Legal Practice Course(hereinafter referred to as the LPC) during their final year for the Law Degree. Even after a prospective solicitor completed the LPC, he/she will not be entered on the roll until and unless a 2 years training contract as well as specified Continuing Professional Training is completed within a prescribed period.

Please refer to http://www.lawcabs.ac.uk/cabOnline/lpc.htm for more information regarding the application

*Every qualified person must have obtained at least a credit in BM and obtain an exemption certificate from the Qualifying Board prior to being called to the Bar in Malaysia, else the qualified person will have to sit for the Bahasa Malaysia Qualifying Examination.
6.0 What is a right of audience which is commonly referred to above?

A 'right of audience' is defined by the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 (UK Legislation) as:

'the right to exercise any of the functions of appearing before and addressing a court including the calling and examining of witnesses'. (Section 119)

In short, only lawyers with right of audience(subject to local regulations), officers of the court, witness and litigants in person are allowed in between the bar and the bench. However, those without right of audience are unable to exercise the powers granted by the right of audience as defined above. Therefore, this distinguishes someone with right of audience with other natural person.

The bar in this case is an imaginary bar though commonly used to refer the bar separating the public gallery. The bench would be the area judges sit.

Is it normal to do just 4 subjects in 1 year? Previously in my studies i did 4 subjects per semester that last for 6 months, so 8 subjects in 1 year.

The BAC class schedule last for 6 months then around 2 months before exam. Since they count by year 2 & year 3 i assume it's fixed to do just only 4 subjects a year? There's a big gap from May-June til the next semester start (like normal uni) but would the 3 months really be a waste for parttimers? Or can we do our course work after exams? From what i see January/April intake is one of the worst choice because they have to wait for another 10 months after course for the exams, unless they can take the November exam for resit students.

Also any ATC or BAC students currently doing LLB London External or just finished? Would like to compare these 2 regarding:

1.Quality of Lecturers: Are the lecturers good at conducting classes, making it interesting while at the sametime give us clear understanding of the subjects, giving interesting case examples & explaining? I don't like to rely on self reading to understand 80% of the topics.

2.Notes: I hear BAC notes are easier to understand while ATC is more detailed?

3.Law Library Facilities: I hear BAC just moved & upgraded their facilities, comparing BAC & ATC how are their libraries & facilities? I'm more interested with the law libraries as we need alot reference materials.

4.Students: How are the qualities of the students there, Parttime & Fulltime?

5.Location wise BAC is at central while ATC i hear is near pasar seni. Which college have better campus/facilities?

17.0 What are the subjects required for the law degree to be recognised by the Qualifying Board in Malaysia?

The law degree SHALL contain a minimum of 12 substantive law subjects,

The 12 law subjects, SHALL include the following 6 core- subjects:
a. Law of Contract
b. Law of Torts
c. Constitutional Law
d. Criminal Law
e. Land Law, and
f. Equity and Trusts

Each of the core-subjects above, SHALL be studied for the duration of one academic year and candidates must have passed all the core-subjects mentioned above.
18.0 Can I specifically specialise into Business Law?

A simple answer would be 'it depends' on what is meant by Business Law. Does it specifically relate inter alia to the law governing businesses, contract, commercial and other laws incidental to business such as those governing interest of creditors(involuntary or voluntary), business premises, etc? Therefore, it seems that Business Law covers a wide variety of core and elective subjects and its syllabus differ accordingly.

Normally each of these are studied as a subject on its own but sometimes it tend to overlap. Therefore, the scope and depth of the subject law students read are different from those taking a business degree.

Such a specialisation can be made by selecting relevant elective subjects in combination with other core or elective subjects.

However, there are institutions that offer LLB (Business Law). It is not exactly business law per se but the compulsory electives (options paper) will be inclined towards Business Law subjects such as Commercial Law, Company Law, Employment Law, etc. These subjects differs accordingly as it is subject to the syllabus of specific institutions.

As long as the papers for the LLB (Business Law) satisfy the requirements of the Qualifying Board and it was awarded from a recognised institution, then there should not be a problem with regard to recognition.
19.0 Are there any specific English language requirement for legal studies?

Normally the requirement for undergraduate level is at least a 6.5 overall band score for IELTS. However, for the Bar Vocational Course, there is a requirement of at least a 7.5 in all 4 modules for IELTS. Northumbria's policy for the BVC is an 8.0 minimum for the speaking category alone with at least a 7.5 overall band score. Masters programme normally require a 7.0 overall band score for IELTS.

There may be exemptions and it is best to obtain more information from the respective institutions. Moreover, the English language requirement above is merely a guidance as it may differ from institution to institution.
20.0 Miscellaneous Links

Justice Ian Chin's notes of proceedings
Justice Ian Chin's notes of proceedings - Continuation of hearing (July)
Solicitor's Remuneration Order 2005
Red Book : Know Your Rights
Datuk George Seah : The Hidden Story
Prof. Lon L. Fuller : The case of the Speluncean Explorers
Full Grounds of Judgment by Aziz Rahim J. in MB v MB suit
Opinion in regards of V.Simakumar by Tommy Thomas
LAWASIA Condemns the Arrest of 5 KL Legal Aid Lawyers
A consideration for foreign practitioners entering the legal profession in Malaysia