Just for the sake of discussion. From those BT + Hyjal + Sunwell raiding guilds.

With new recruits for BT + Hyjal + Sunwell, would you consider an undergeared applicant?

Consider before saying no :

a) Majority of the raiders would have already been geared enough that they can carry a few undergeared ppl through. Not a lot but a few.
b) With the Sunwell badge loot, they are wearing SSC/TK equivalent, if not for some that are also best in slot.
c) Some of the crafting professions already give best-in-slot items e.g. Alchemist's Stone. Some, mind you.
d) If they link you a WWS where they were doing pretty well with healing, would you consider them?

There seems to be a severe shortage of recruits for BT + Hyjal + Sunwell. Well, across all servers by the looks of things.

Am wondering how other guilds are managing this.

EDIT : Undergeared = Kara/Gruul/Mag/Badge Epic Gear. Does not include any greens/blues.

This post has been edited by myremi: Jun 4 2008, 10:47 AM

One thing i don't understand..............
if you're Hyjal/BT geared......................................................... why leave ur current guild ?
Obviously ur guild successfully geared you, so why leave?

Only reasons i can think of (which are all negative)
- you're a ninja
- you're not loyal

Of course, i'm not accusing u of either of those, just saying bcos i see
people leave their guilds all the time... Of course the occasional guild disband
may occur but it's very rare.... cos seriously, who would disband a BT guild??

EDIT: It's not a recruitment shortage...
It's SW guild expecting too much.... they want a BT geared toon, but who would leave a BT guild
just for a SW guild? 'cos their guild might progress into SW themself soon.

This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 08:44 AM

if your job earns you rm10k, successful job. why leave your current job?
until job b offers 20k maybe?

so, this guy that is looking for better opportunities in job b =
ninja (lolwut, ninja confidential company documents)
not loyal

and who would disband a BT guild? DNT (death n texas, in case ur wondering), ex-top world guild, ex-top US guild, disbanded a sunwell raiding guild. BT? not that big of a deal nowdays.

TLDR: i lol @ your intelligence.

Said it before and will always say it; skill > gear.

If an applicant shows that they have done raiding at different levels, can perform exceptionally well (be it BWL, AQ40, Kara, TK, etc.) and shows evidence of it (meters, WWS and such are not conclusive enough) both in achievements/kills, time put in and what has been looted, then you can be fairly certain the person knows how to play his class. All that is lacking is the gear to perform at higher levels.

That said, if possible, take applicants for a trial run and see how they do. If they are a server transfer applicant, then that'll require a lot of time investigating his/her background and history. Sounds time-consuming but better to save both your time and his/her money. Will discuss more Saturday.

it is certain that skill !> gear
or gear > skill

in terms of gear > skill, you've made your point so i wont go there. however, think about this:

outline:
guy is f***ing uber, response 200%, skill, thinking, talent speccing, anything you name it, perfect or more.
gear? all greens.

outcome:

pve-
6k hp 8k mana unbuffed priest.
almost safe to say anything aoe would 1 shot this guy, or put him really critical, to draw unwanted attention of overhealings from other healers. and even if he can heal, 8k mana with shit healing wont do much TBH.
gearing him up? lets say, pve gearing, is all bout random rolls, luck of drop, and lol manipulating the dkp system (or relative loot distribution system)
what if even the guild, is so generous to run this guy to kara, ssc, tk, bt, hj, in attempt to get him ready for SW, but loots NEVER DROP. all void crystal or something random for someone else?

pvp-
yea, you may have the insane f***ing reaction, but when ur 0 resilience and some guy in full S3 just comes over you curb stomping you to the ground, i dont think it matters. imagine a train wrecking through a clueless 5 year old pre-school kid thats unfortunate enough to cross the rail track when the train's coming. so quick, its almost painless.

that said, if you have skills, you can get gear in notime, like badge loots for pve, welfare arena/bg items for pvp.
but think about it, when the person is recruiting that said undergeared guy, would the person wait for him? of course not. tough luck, send in another application etc etc. when ur geared.

=edit=
typo in bold

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 09:47 AM

BT transition to SW IS NOT RM10k to RM20k...
more like RM10k to RM12k....
Besides, if my guild have been good to me to include me into every raids
and i have established a good relationship with everyone, i won't jump ship.
Who knows what might happen in the other company..... maybe they won't appreciate
me that much and i hafta reestablish my relationship with everyone.... really not worth the RM2k IMHO.

TLDR: i lol @ your intelligence.

EDIT: Typos

This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 09:58 AM

Yea it's always risky to recruit undergeared people, same as it is recruiting ebayed toons (who in their right mind would? "Look at his armory, gear will overcome any skill deficiency"). It's difficult but that's down to how you would screen and be willing to accommodate the person into your guild and raid plans.

If you're in Kara, taking all greens would be acceptable imo. Going to TK/SSC, you'd expect all blues at the very least. Going BT/Hyjal, then you need epix. Standards go up as you raid higher tiers so there're still requirements in place and need to be met. Doesn't need to have the gear equivalent of what you are raiding, can always be a tier or two below.

In the end, it's down to you, your call; do you have the time and patience to take him through what is required to bring him up to par gear-wise? Will your guild be receptive to the idea? Will your raiders be willing to pass on loot that are minor upgrades for them but are "I've-waited-forever-to-drop" loot when it's a bigger upgrade for the newbie?

Pros and cons, it's how you want to weigh it in the end. To me, it's like football..you either find a gem of a player in the end or you end up with trash so to speak

This post has been edited by Odinn: Jun 4 2008, 10:05 AM

Kings83, I'm doing something I've never ask someone on this forum to do. Can you please keep quiet in this thread? I'd rather hear from other raiders rather than your prejudices.

Quaz, be nice. Even if Kings83 is irritating, just ignore him.

This post just tempted me to post moar...
gratz

i wouldnt bring a undergeared player to bt/mh/sw

being in a bt raiding guild i forced my raid leader to say no blues/greens in bt/mh(unless it's trinkets) other then that ssc/tk i wouldnt bring green geared ppl, why should i bother gearing up ppl when they have no intention of doing it them self?

IMO btw dont flame if you think im wrong/stupid/just want to flame for no fkn reason :/

Trinklets? That's the easiest epic badge upgrade to get.

WTF?? BT/MH/SW still got people using greens/blues meh ??
You are right, they have no intensions of gearing themselves up...

you know, despite my attempt to upscale everything so even the simplest of a brain capacity would comprehend it, apparently it wasnt good enough for you.

point being there is a better opportunity, people move on, such a simple thing also couldnt understand?

and just for the sake of your stupidity, ask every known hardcore raider out there. ask them the difference between bt and sunwell. my 10k -> 20k jump is fairly relative.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 10:26 amthat is true. case in point from my part would be warlocks spamming 1 button shadowbolt. thats a good example of gear > skill. however as i said, neither is actually > the other

for kara, its widely pug'ed. basically the TBC UBRS. bringing 1-2 all green (but not stupid) people is perfectly fine

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 10:26 AM

If you're a BT guild, the next progression would be SW...
what else is there to raid if not SW ??

Just 2 lines of simple facts....
www.dictionary.com it if you do not understand.

some bt guilds cannot even do well in sunwell sad to say it's not as easy as saying OmFg kara>ssc lulz

Look guys, please do not get this thread locked ok? OKAY?

Kara --> SSC = 10k to 20k (becos u skipped gruul's/mag and za)
But BT --> SW IS NOT = 10k to 20k.... it's already the next thing in ur progression list.


@ Myremi, can't we have a friendly discussion around here?
Call that PVP fanboy of yours to stop the name calling then maybe we can finally discuss some
logic here.

Jas already said it so not much needed to be said since its not like your gonna understand anyways.

and if your gonna point me to a definition/fact link, at least point me to wowwiki or thottbot maybe? im pretty sure i wont be finding what your trying to refer to me from dictionary.com

myremi im being as polite as i can. btw king why do you think sunwell is a small upgrade form bt? mind to explain? i mean it's only logical to hear from both side b4 calling one another a retard.

If you're in BT and you're taking in blue/green geared people into your raid, I'd think it's very questionable too. You should be able to judge for yourself if a person was given a chance and that he would justify his opportunity given. Of course BT can't be taken lightly with green/blue gears. At least TK/SSC or badge gears, no tier skipping.

well, if anything, you've pulled the trigger on calling me a "pvp fanboy" while i havent called you anything. yet.

Becos if you already have BT on farm, you should be able to start SW.
If you try to start SW just becos u cleared BT 1 or 2 times, obviously you are not ready.
More emphasis on the "on farm" status.

[sarcasm]
but of course i've been in this forum long enuff to realized by everyone's logic, it is impossible to do SW now, cos u need T8 for sunwell.
Heck, u already need T5 for kara....
[/sarcasm]

This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 10:39 AM

Alright, let me be the first to start some linking here...
according to this chart,



If you can down illidan, you are ready to start SW.
Please emphasis on the bold lettering....

forget ur stupid logics like in the other threads where i asked if i'm
ready for za and u guys are talking about bear runs lol wut.

As you start SW and farm on the earlier bosses, u will get better...
if you're thinking of starting SW and immediately downing kil'jaeden, then yeah, u need T8.

*EH = Effective Health (for u non-tanking ppl)
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/warrior-ref...e-minimums.html

I change my OP a bit citing the definition to be used for Undergeared is Epics from Kara/Gruuls/Mags/Badge rewards.

Let's keep it nice folks.

Would like to hear from various classes about this.

well king how far in wow have you raided?
have you seen kaelthas? not the mgt 1
have you seen vash?
have you seen arch?
have you wiped like f*** in MH? have you got 16 members dc during trash mobs in MH? have you even seen alar in tk?

if no then please dont think killing intraweb monsters is like killing a fly it's not. kara is not srsbiznez. try venturing furtherb4 commenting alot

so suddenly, WoW is a tanking game and the other 24 raiders dont matter at all right?

and afaik, theres no t6, and before you pull the "lol its sarcasm card", its the internet.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 10:56 amuh oh the pro stomping noob card is into play!

discards all cards on hand, draws a new set of cards!

=edit=
jas is right though, kara is the new UBRS, and ubrs was... not srsbiznes.

i PUG run it in around 2-4 hours full clear every boss, and yeah, PUG. i even do gruuls and ZA. so unless ur in ssc/tk, ur not really even pveing. ur just doing non-factor crap.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 10:58 AM

Yes, apparently Tanks and healers make or break raids...
if your tanks and healers are over-geared, you can carry slightly undergeared dps-ers...
it just takes longer to kill things.

But if your tank is undergeared, tank will die from not able to take hits....
either that or DPS significantly outgears tank and WILL pull aggro... all choas breaks lose.

So yeah, TANK and HEALER make or break raids.


btw, L2Read....
This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 10:59 AM

Killing the last boss in any instance is not the "all clear signal" to start the next instance.

If you think your raid is ready for the next step, you can move on without clearing your current instance. Either you're wise or foolhardy, that's up to you to show.

Resteering back to the topic at hand.

Recruiting an undergeared epic-geared player for BT + Hyjal + Sunwell.

Why? Reasons for yes and no.

Since this thread has gone OT.

You have to considered undergeared applicants. While it's always nice to recruit someone who is geared for the content you're progressing in, this may not always be possible. You have to be realistic here, either you recruit for needed raid spots or you don't raid. In the last 2 months we've geared up a retridin, enhancement shaman and we've just taken in a new resto shaman, tankadin and shadowpriest. There's so much loot in BT/MH that the gearing up goes relatively quickly in there even though we were relatively late in progressing. As it is a lot of loot in MH/BT is getting disenchanted. So as it is, we're clearing MH+BT in 2 days (about 8 hours), even with undergeared scrubs in the guild. Although I have to say we're stopping MH soon to give us more time in SP.

Having some good crafted BOPs and badge epics is indicative of raider who's willing to put time in to gear himself up. Similarly having a nice wws is indicative of good player although you have to read those things carefully as you're often missing things like (for healing) group setup, what his role was (MT healing, raid healing) and generally why everyone else sucked so bad. At the end of the day the most important thing is to recruit someone who wants to play an important role in progression, who will turn up for raids - especially the wipe raids, and who has the right attitude (ie laughing at felmyst wipes rather than quitting). It's more important to make sure he fits in with your guild/raid socially than anything else imo.

But then again maybe i'm biased as we have a smallish guild (<40 raiders) and we only do 4 x 4hr raid days a week so it's even more important for the new joiner to fit in.

if you still have the same mentality of only tanks and healers make or break the raids, your not gonna succeed BT/Hyjal -> SW, or ZA.
oh wait, your not even in those said instance silly me.

and i dont see how i got a l2read problem considering what you've said and what the chart you quoted said is pretty much different. maybe you l2understand and/or l2post?

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 11:38 amdefinitely a no.

think of gear as a diploma/education IRL

the person may have the skill or not we dont know. but gear is clear. high end guild will not, and shouldnt wait for new recruits to gear up, and/or help them to gear up. it only slows/kills progression.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 11:39 amyou do have a point, but thats the case where server population vs class is not ideal for you (eg: playing asia/pacific timezone on a US timezone based server)

since OT didnt mention of those circumstances, it is safe to assume one is in an ideal enviroment where the player/class pool is adequate.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 11:39 AM

and yeah, you don't even know tanks and healers are the backbone of raids...
oh wait, you're a PVP fanboy....




Nothing wrong with being a PVP fanboi, i wonder why did you think it's a bad thing.
I myself am a playstation fanboi.... so what if i hate Nintendo/xbox ?

Set reasonable expectations for recruits. Obviously there is a minimum gear level you have to consider but with every patch it gets easier to gear yourself in WoW.

Prot warrior with only Kara level gear? Let him tank Lady Malande, don't expect him to offtank Gurtogg Bloodboil and keep up with your primary tank.

DPS with only craftables and badge loot? Don't bring them to a Brutallus raid or a Zul'Aman bear mount run.

Healers- if its anything raiding teaches you, the value of your healers comes across when its a timely BOP to save an AOEr, a clutch PW:S on the MT when he gets spiked low, an earthshocked heal on Lady Malande to cover for a rogue or a tank- NOT how much mana they finish the fight with. The only exception in this case would be a druid since they're still going to be your most efficient healers regardless of gear as long as they're in Kara epics, unless they make a mistake like choosing to channel tranquility during Illidan's fireballing phase when they're assigned to an FR tank.

As for recruiting within your own progression level- its russian roulette. There are plenty of reasons why someone would jump ship to another T6/SWP guild- and most of the time, it's Drama. Unless you have spies or friends in every other raiding guild to let you know about that particular recruit's personality, you'll always have to live with that risk.

Gearing recruits up- if you're advertising "Need Resto Shaman for Sunwell Progression- 4/8 T6 within 3 weeks of joining!" you're just going to attract the wrong kind of people to the guild.

As for DPS recruits... mostly DPS are the most hardcore (yet most replacable) component of a PVE raid. I doubt you'd ever need to gear a new rogue or a warrior since these types are often the most hardcore. If you do, I don't envy you. Personally I rather give the best loot to the most stable DPS, since its harder to gear them up because of loot competition. Exceptions would be classes that have healer roles- i.e. Retadins, Enhance Shaman, Moonkin -less competition there. Even then, it's gonna be a long, long road to getting best-in-slot items for them.

Just keep in mind that gear will hardly matter in the long run, just how hard someone tries, especially at BT. Rely on the opinions of your class leaders and raiders, don't think you have all the answers all the time because you obviously won't. You'll never know when a hardworking recruit will become useful to your guild. Better to raid at 80% strength than not raid at all.

This post has been edited by BoardWarrior: Jun 4 2008, 11:48 AM

im clearing ZA in PUGs while your... not even starting ZA. (im not even gonna bother brining in kara since its just stupid)
so what does that makes you? i focus on pvp a hell lot more and yet im still over ur face in pve. ouch?

and i TOTALLY have no problem being a pvp fanboi, its merely to clarify that your already on the name calling spree while ive not done anything yet. then again considering your mental capacity, its all within expectations i suppose.

You're in za and i'm in kara?
big deal?? Hell, if i were playing since wow beta like most u guys, i'd prolly be in SW by now.
So tell me, why aren't u guys in SW ??

name calling = bad
<insert a word here> fanboi = not bad

you do realize that TBC basically resets everything minus your 1-60 levels right? and that SW isnt out when TBC is released, nor does BT/illidan.
so why does players playing since wow beta matters in the first place?

time is no excuse for WoW as its so casual friendly. heroics + kara/other raids = free badge. and the new SW badge loots are t6 equalvalent.
i mean, im definitely not making any claims of being pve successful, but you being even more of a failure than i am and talking a whole lot more than i do in pve just dont make a lot of sense. ever wonder why even myremi told you to stfu? wait nvm, your mental capacity wouldnt ever comprehend it anyways. i was so out of line.

and since you had to ask anyways (again, since you just dont understand a lot of things), i simply invest my time more in pvp, and have more fun killing ACTUAL PLAYERS than emotionless scripted NPC.

I don't wanna go to the PVP vs PVE since it's a never ending argument.
But playing for more than 3 years DOES matter.

'cos if you've been playing since the beginning of time, you are expected to have cleared the game (PVE wise, as in... killed the last boss of the hardest raid).
And blizzard releases new raids, why? Bcos there is nothing left to do.... so they release new raids, i'd expect long timers like you to jump straight into it.
but that is not the case.

So here i am, 3 years later finally picked up the game, started raiding and am now in kara.
You ridicule me of being in kara... but i don't think it's a bad thing.... considering u were in cloud 9 cos u had more HP in ur welfare epics
than when i just dinged 70 (i'll never forget that, fukken epic ).

Maybe that's why u're in a PVP realm, you get satisfaction out of ganking lowbies.
The only thing u proved by being in a PVP realm is u got too much time in ur hands (which again brings us back to why u have been playing longer).
Longer.................... u've been playing longer................................ and u're in za..................................... and u're dam proud of it.

omg where have i been lately...
should've known this part of the forums is always the best read when i have a mind block...
go on guys, i need more amusement

and all of the sudden there are no pvp element of the game anymore right? so everyone thats been playing since the beginning of time is expected to be raiding sunwell and stuff cuz WoW is a 1 man game and so long anyone plays more than 3 years is able to accomplish it right?

you are still missing the point where:
- TBC resets the game in a sense so time played really matters nothing.
- it doesnt take long to gear, pvp or pve so long you put in the effort, in which you didnt. in pve, so long you do a lot of good heroic/badge runs, get decent luck on drops, you can be full epic in a day from full green/blues. while in pvp, honor grind for full S1 arena gear/S3 honor gear can be done in a day as well depending on how successful/hardcore you are (winning games instead of losing)

TLDR: time != gear/skill/progression.

and if ur gonna critisicize me wearing welfare epics(be it the pve badge loots or pvp gears), why dont YOU go and get them? it is welfare afterall, up for grabs from anyone right?

lastly, if your concept of pvp is world pvp + ganking lowbies. you've only proving everything ive been saying in this thread true.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 12:19 pmyou didnt missed much, it was pretty stale as king83 was banned a while ago.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 12:19 PM

BT to sunwell is rm 10k to rm 50k IMO. The lvl of difficulty is way way way higher in sunwell. We are doing prenerf bosses. 1 mistake = wipe. Imagine we need 27777k dps on brut.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 12:30 pm@ myremi

Unrated has recruited a lot of undergeared ppl (ssc/tk/boj standard) for sunwell, but there is a gearing process involved. we really need 4/5 t6 gear in sunwell bosses, thru the gearing period, we evaluate ppl to see whether they will be able to handle sunwell

Most importantly, like i said in many of my other posts, the most important thing is commitment. Skills and gear will come eventually, but you must have the right attitude in raiding. Thats why we require our trails to get all their best boj items they can get, and if possible, respec LW for drums, before handing them their 1st piece of T6

As for the skill>gear debate, i want to point out somthing. If you cant get your rotations right in BT, just quit the game. Skill in sunwell means reaction time, the ability to decide what your next move will be, the ability to predict what you other 24 members will do, and the ability to respond in the case that an unexpected situation occurs.

This post has been edited by orangbulu: Jun 4 2008, 12:37 PM

as did quazacolt

Explain the brutallus fight then

can't explain.. never been.
But 6 min enrage does require the DPS to be greatly geared.

I'm not explaining regarding an particular fight...
i'm just saying in general tanks and healers are back bone for any raids.

If there's something wrong with what u quoted, please feel free to clarify.

This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 12:38 PM

10 million hp, 6 mins enrage. undergeared DPS will break a guild.

There is something you forget. Low dps = more time to down a boss = the higher chance a healer will make and error

No doubt My guild's MT get 1st pick on gear, other than that, dps and healers are geared equally, meaning that all classes are valued evenly

This post has been edited by orangbulu: Jun 4 2008, 12:41 PM

aiyo this one terlampau lol. 50k pulak

and for skill > gear debate, at the end of the day it is still a scripted event minus random elements

a better settlement would still be gear = skill/ skill = gear and such. as there is no real way to decide which is more important

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 12:44 PM

Where does one get T8, guys?
How did SK Gaming do it?

If clearing Bt is still not enough to start SW, then when can u start SW?
Is there another instance where you go kill arthas for T8 ?

You need to have BT on farm for more than 3-4 months, and hope none of the 25 man will leave

I am saying that in general....
For raid bosses without enrage timer...
You can't take bruttalus into consideration....
'cos brutallus is obviously a gear check.

- and ur still biting on the time card? if ur playing other MMO i probably would've agreed that time = all. but this is WoW. if the person is skilled/dedicated, he can create a new friggin account and hed be in Bt/Hyjal in around 10-20 days. unlike you who are still in kara.

- and until this day you still couldnt realize that gearing a tank up is the EASIEST class to gear up in WoW? grats on being slow. go and ask some HJ/BT/SW main tanks and see if they have problem gearing up. (actually, nevermind, cuz if you have the mental capacitiyy to think about it, if they DO have problem gearing up, they wouldnt even be in HJ/BT/SW)

- and welfare loots is only limited to pvp items right?

- so... APPARENTLY people in arenas are half health, fighting a mob (lolwut?!) and, they are not ready. yea sure. lmao. what game are you playing again btw?

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 12:52 pmdude, dont need to go as far as brutalus. zuljin should be enough.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 12:52 PM

Maybe you think that way, coz you are a tank and healers keep you up in raids. kara,za,gruul wise, DPS is not really important. Blizzard has been really lenient on the difficulty of those bosses.

Late BT onwards, we try to minimize the number of healers to bring more DPS in, because the time to down a boss is significant. In the end of the day, we still have to factor luck into our calculations. ur 550 def rating does not mean you can block 3-4 shots in a row, its still a %. the faster we down a boss, we reduce our chance of wiping, and we get more time to try bosses in sunwell

coming from ZA pugs, dps IS important on zuljin.

bad hawk/lynx phase = /wrists

It's normal that instances have gear checks; BWL has Vael, AQ40 has Fangkriss (iirc), Naxx has Patchwerk, etc. So DPS is crucial as well as stated above; the quicker the kill, the easier it is on everyone else from class roles to time spent moving/adjusting/reacting. I wouldn't put any role above the other in terms of tank>heal>dps. All are important and can't have too much imbalance; super tank, mediocre healer, weak dps etc.

AQ40 more like huhuran LOLNRGEARZ

oi... I'm sure you can all stick to the topic and keep the "me is smarter than you" posts out.

Right, Princess, forgot her name. I only looked forward to twin emps and cthun which was a bish to get to

pre bc hes correct though.

its always tank > healer > dps

or tank + healer > dps

but this aint pre bc.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 1:04 pmi believe it isnt the matter of "me is smarter than you"

more like "im stupid yet i post like a genius" problem. you dig?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 01:04 PM

Funnily enough, lots of posts from people who either don't raid BT/SWP or aren't raid leaders in PVE guilds.

This post has been edited by BoardWarrior: Jun 4 2008, 01:05 PM

hehe sadly myself i also didnt get to see much AQ40

only like 1st boss or so, and it was an invitational run hehe (cuz i got connections yo!)

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 1:07 pmtrue

thats why i dont post too technical on the BT/SWP parts

if it helps, my guild was a pve guild for over a year ish, from pre bc until post bc kara/gruul age

converted to pvp though after that, but im still the very same guild leader and same guild. the guild's been around since day 1. and it will be the only guild my rogue will be in until i quit WoW

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 01:07 PM

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject since it's something that every raiding guild that wants to push progression will have to face.

Too bad I'll be AFK till tonight.

As par for the course for these forums, a few decent posts from people who do raid actively vs a lot of background noise.

Will post more tonight since this is the most interesting topic on the boards in recent times.

Actually, i've not done Gruul yet but i don't think it's possible to bring in undergeared ppl for gruul's too.
bcos of growls.

you mean interesting topic in... today?

actually it isnt anything special if you ask me. topics such as these has been considered "dead horses" been beating upon on an off by raiders/forumers.

just that, LYN wow forum is so DAMN STALE, something slightly interesting pop up only it will be a huge deal

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 1:19 pmnot possible? can tell the 5 man gruul, where the rogue is the tank, and hes tanking with a few blue pieces.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 01:19 PM

ZA loot plus new badge gear is more than good enough for MH/BT. Some badge pieces outperform the BT drops. So if you are recruiting for example something like 7/9 BT 4/5 MH, make sure they are fitted in ZA/badge/craft gears in most slots. The ZA/badge is not so much to be par for course, but to show that the applicant is dedicated enough to farm gears. People in kara pieces applying are clearly expecting charity handouts.

What about pushing Sunwell, is ZA/badge enough? I would say sure. To push Sunwell, you need to farm BT continuously to get more lolglaives. Brutallus is hard without glaives and skulls. Farming BT can really tire out your fully-geared core raiders, so why not bring these new recruits to gear up while doing it.

This post has been edited by Aggroboy: Jun 13 2008, 02:17 PM

Ya, i agree.

For example, The badge crossbow is excellent for BM hunters.
DPS spreadsheet shows that it actually gives out higher DPS for BM hunters using 1:1 shot rotation.

The 2h axe is one of the best weapons for ret pally too. (Uhh, Blood elf pallies.)

Careful what examples you choose to use. There are reasons why he used blue items, and it's not because he doesn't have epic gear.

Because most of the blue items provide massive dodge and agi from various pieces, bringing him closer to 100% avoidance.

Yeah, it is an interesting topic.

With patch 2.4 and the doing away with the BT and Hyjal attunement quests, a lot of guilds are now heading into BT + Hyjal. With Sunwell, on the other hand, a lot of the hardcore raiding guilds are having core members leaving because of the difficulty of the encounters.

Looking at my own server recruitment pages, even the hardcore guilds seem to be recruiting for ppl to fill in their spots.

So, thought it might be an interesting discussion. And to see if can glean any new ideas from others who have gone down that road.

How much avoidance did he had?

Wait a minute, GROWLS?!?!?!?!

102% to be untouchable.

growth, spelling nazi.

I believe it's 102.4% to be untouchable.... i should know.
Means he didn't have a healer lah ?

This post has been edited by King83: Jun 4 2008, 01:50 PM

the bold words makes me giggle...
btw just passing through... arlo people

wait.... impossible no healer... how they avoid cave ins ??
Or all ranged? somemore no hurtful strike (did i get the name right, spelling nazi?) soaker ?

dam... i should just watch the vid

hiyas, you not playing wow anymore i hear?

yeah,
work, projects, gf and preparation for further studies...
i hardly get time to sleep =/

join us at bogardan's restaurant saturday nite?

omg you're trolling/spamming your own topic.

*piak kidi*

can i have ur stuff plz?

good points, however wouldnt you still need the same fully-geared core raiders to carry those new recruits?
still tiresome at the end of the day, and worse when you help them gear up and they just leave.

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 2:47 pmya i know, mainly for agi synergy.

but case in point is that gruul is pretty much EZ-mode, and people are pugging it

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jun 4 2008, 02:47 PM

wow.. so much amusement in here...


i want to read moar...







we p.u.g growls tat day & 1 shotted him. true story.

This thread reminds me that I've never went pass The Lurker in SST, never even downed Lootreaver once (even after 10 attempts) let alone BT/MH/SW

Geez I need to join a raiding guild.

my guild brings ppl with green gear to gruuls with no wipe

hmm just checked the other thread... not too sure about my plans on saturday.
just got into an accident and my car is in the workshop, i don't think my gf would like the idea of fetching me to a WoW gathering since we've got limited "alone" time these days due to her madman of a father

simple, bring ur gf along.

Genesis guild on Jubeithos
disbanded last week
4/6 SW
lol

This post has been edited by busbos: Jun 4 2008, 03:58 PM

Maybe they disbanded for AoC

ya pls try this on brutallus
u sure will love it

---

Added on June 4, 2008, 4:02 pmi started play since 5 months b4 TBC
and im in SW


This post has been edited by busbos: Jun 4 2008, 04:02 PM