and all of the sudden there are no pvp element of the game anymore right? so everyone thats been playing since the beginning of time is expected to be raiding sunwell and stuff cuz WoW is a 1 man game and so long anyone plays more than 3 years is able to accomplish it right?

I wasn't talking about u... u're a PVP fanboi, so it's expected u'd be spending ur time PVPing.
That was directed more towards ppl who used the "zomfg, i'm in BT and u're in Kara" on me.
Over 3 years and not in SW, i'd be ashamed if i were them than using it to brag.

you are still missing the point where:
- TBC resets the game in a sense so time played really matters nothing.
- it doesnt take long to gear, pvp or pve so long you put in the effort, in which you didnt. in pve, so long you do a lot of good heroic/badge runs, get decent luck on drops, you can be full epic in a day from full green/blues. while in pvp, honor grind for full S1 arena gear/S3 honor gear can be done in a day as well depending on how successful/hardcore you are (winning games instead of losing)

Until today, i still can't seem to knock some sense into ur head that tank gearing is not easy as other classes. To you, tanks can get phr33 epix from welfare epics too. So i'll just stop trying to explain.

TLDR: time != gear/skill/progression.

and if ur gonna critisicize me wearing welfare epics(be it the pve badge loots or pvp gears), why dont YOU go and get them? it is welfare afterall, up for grabs from anyone right?

Who said i'm not gearing myself with welfare?
On my tank, i can't.... but on my shaman, i am.
I don't have full welfare on my shaman yet, only bcos i am waiting for S2 (zomfg, new and better epix)
But i do have the bracers and boots already bcos i know i won't be using S4's bracers + boots cos they require PR.


lastly, if your concept of pvp is world pvp + ganking lowbies. you've only proving everything ive been saying in this thread true.

as if attacking someone with half hp while he is fighting a mob is any different.
as if attacking someone when he isn't ready is any different.
You feel a sense of accomplishment killing ppl that way, don't cha ?

you didnt missed much, it was pretty stale as king83 was banned a while ago.

Yes, apparently Tanks and healers make or break raids...
if your tanks and healers are over-geared, you can carry slightly undergeared dps-ers...
it just takes longer to kill things.

But if your tank is undergeared, tank will die from not able to take hits....
either that or DPS significantly outgears tank and WILL pull aggro... all choas breaks lose.

So yeah, TANK and HEALER make or break raids.
btw, L2Read....

Explain the brutallus fight then

BT to sunwell is rm 10k to rm 50k IMO. The lvl of difficulty is way way way higher in sunwell. We are doing prenerf bosses. 1 mistake = wipe. Imagine we need 27777k dps on brut.

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Added on June 4, 2008, 12:30 pm@ myremi

Unrated has recruited a lot of undergeared ppl (ssc/tk/boj standard) for sunwell, but there is a gearing process involved. we really need 4/5 t6 gear in sunwell bosses, thru the gearing period, we evaluate ppl to see whether they will be able to handle sunwell

Most importantly, like i said in many of my other posts, the most important thing is commitment. Skills and gear will come eventually, but you must have the right attitude in raiding. Thats why we require our trails to get all their best boj items they can get, and if possible, respec LW for drums, before handing them their 1st piece of T6

As for the skill>gear debate, i want to point out somthing. If you cant get your rotations right in BT, just quit the game. Skill in sunwell means reaction time, the ability to decide what your next move will be, the ability to predict what you other 24 members will do, and the ability to respond in the case that an unexpected situation occurs.

What i am saying: SW is the next progression after BT. If you are farming BT, you should be able to start SW.

What u are saying: NO !! SW is too hard.... clearing BT won't be enough. We need T8.

10 million hp, 6 mins enrage. undergeared DPS will break a guild.

There is something you forget. Low dps = more time to down a boss = the higher chance a healer will make and error

No doubt My guild's MT get 1st pick on gear, other than that, dps and healers are geared equally, meaning that all classes are valued evenly

I wasn't talking about u... u're a PVP fanboi, so it's expected u'd be spending ur time PVPing.
That was directed more towards ppl who used the "zomfg, i'm in BT and u're in Kara" on me.
Over 3 years and not in SW, i'd be ashamed if i were them than using it to brag.


Until today, i still can't seem to knock some sense into ur head that tank gearing is not easy as other classes. To you, tanks can get phr33 epix from welfare epics too. So i'll just stop trying to explain.


Who said i'm not gearing myself with welfare?
On my tank, i can't.... but on my shaman, i am.
I don't have full welfare on my shaman yet, only bcos i am waiting for S2 (zomfg, new and better epix)
But i do have the bracers and boots already bcos i know i won't be using S4's bracers + boots cos they require PR.


as if attacking someone with half hp while he is fighting a mob is any different.
as if attacking someone when he isn't ready is any different.
You feel a sense of accomplishment killing ppl that way, don't cha ?

Explain the brutallus fight then

Maybe you think that way, coz you are a tank and healers keep you up in raids. kara,za,gruul wise, DPS is not really important. Blizzard has been really lenient on the difficulty of those bosses.

Late BT onwards, we try to minimize the number of healers to bring more DPS in, because the time to down a boss is significant. In the end of the day, we still have to factor luck into our calculations. ur 550 def rating does not mean you can block 3-4 shots in a row, its still a %. the faster we down a boss, we reduce our chance of wiping, and we get more time to try bosses in sunwell

It's normal that instances have gear checks; BWL has Vael, AQ40 has Fangkriss (iirc), Naxx has Patchwerk, etc. So DPS is crucial as well as stated above; the quicker the kill, the easier it is on everyone else from class roles to time spent moving/adjusting/reacting. I wouldn't put any role above the other in terms of tank>heal>dps. All are important and can't have too much imbalance; super tank, mediocre healer, weak dps etc.

AQ40 more like huhuran LOLNRGEARZ

It's normal that instances have gear checks; BWL has Vael, AQ40 has Fangkriss (iirc), Naxx has Patchwerk, etc. So DPS is crucial as well as stated above; the quicker the kill, the easier it is on everyone else from class roles to time spent moving/adjusting/reacting. I wouldn't put any role above the other in terms of tank>heal>dps. All are important and can't have too much imbalance; super tank, mediocre healer, weak dps etc.

oi... I'm sure you can all stick to the topic and keep the "me is smarter than you" posts out.

Right, Princess, forgot her name. I only looked forward to twin emps and cthun which was a bish to get to 

Funnily enough, lots of posts from people who either don't raid BT/SWP or aren't raid leaders in PVE guilds.

Maybe you think that way, coz you are a tank and healers keep you up in raids. kara,za,gruul wise, DPS is not really important. Blizzard has been really lenient on the difficulty of those bosses.