Goodness gracious, at least get the petrol price right....
it's 2.70 now lah bang, naik 78 cents

i didn't read all those posts before me. so like, hey guys! wats goin on in this thread?

oh rogue lol, cheh dun wan ninja liao

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Added on June 5, 2008, 12:19 am

Gear to difficulty wise, yes kalecgos >>> illidan

But version 1 mag, vashj and kael is the hardest of all, gear to diffculty wise. Im sure the rest of sunwell is really really challenging too.

How many times must i say this is a "general" assumption ?
I said tanks and healers are over-geared, so they can carry undergeared dps....
why u say healer go oom pulak?? If healer oom, healer is not overgeared.

Again, this is a general assumption.
At least if u have a good tank and healer,
you can still take out some boss....
as oppose to bad tank and healer, don't even think about raiding.

Malaysians have a pretty good reputation for derailing the topic of discussion and resorting to accusations and insults hurling.

Those who are starting to take the responses personally, please leave your mud-slinging elsewhere.

Discussion : Recruiting raiders who are geared in low-gear-level epics (Kara, Gruul, Mags, PVP, Badges, Heroics) for BT, Hyjal, Sunwell. BT+Hyjal can be group together. Sunwell can be considered as a much harder instance.

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Added on June 5, 2008, 9:11 am

Ok for everyone else, as much as these kind of statements are inviting a lot of correction, try to stick to the topic at hand.

Kings83, you are making a mickey out of yourself these days.

This is going on a loop,
as usual, u can't prove otherwise.

you just want people to take ur word for it.

I would go along with this. Although it's very rare any raid will accept undergeared dps simply because low dps = large room for error. The longer a fight drags on, the more the chances of a mistake happening. Kill fast, less mistake to cover up, less effort spent compensating.

But if a raid is willing/desperate, they can always take undergeared dps at their risk. Of course when you hit certain fights where DPS is required, then you'd hit a cockblock.

And wrong, u can still kill the boss.
The only time u can't kill the boss with this group setup is when they have an enrage timer.
In which case u're an idiot for bringing in low dps.
'cos myremi and u are buddy buddies...
she even supported ur "tanks can tank in welfare epics" statement.

The difference between you and me is that I'm not an ******* when I ask people for opinions neither do I make stupid remarks when someone has a differing opinion. I have already clearly stated that I will not bother to respond to your viewpoints since you have a tendency to put people down, even new players (who we are suppose to be helping in this forum).

What orangbulu stated is very much so a fact. In every fight, there is also a time limiting factor which is outside of the Enrage Timer. Almost every fight. And what he said in all the 4 fights, yes, it is very much so true.

As for buddies with Quazacolt, so what? I'm buddies with a lot of other forum posters what. It's called networking. For god's sake, I know Noyze when we were kids, Odinn was friends with my sister. I had fun with the people I met at the WoW Gatherings I arrange every time I go to KL.

Be polite. You don't have to like people but just be polite. And for goodness sake, don't get this thread lock.

This thread died pretty quick

My bro got an rare trinket from joining the <SHELL> guild.

by socketing def gems amirite?
this is better than an armour piece that has def on equip right ?
socketing/enchant def instead of stam is optimum rite?

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Added on June 5, 2008, 9:54 am

Good attempt at changing the topic...

while we're at it, i might as well add.
You think i give a crap whether or not u talk to me?
If i want people to like me, i'd post in another account.
Why am i posting on this? Have u ever wondered why?

What u think of me means little to me.

One thing i don't understand..............
if you're Hyjal/BT geared......................................................... why leave ur current guild ?
Obviously ur guild successfully geared you, so why leave?

Only reasons i can think of (which are all negative)
- you're a ninja
- you're not loyal

Of course, i'm not accusing u of either of those, just saying bcos i see
people leave their guilds all the time... Of course the occasional guild disband
may occur but it's very rare.... cos seriously, who would disband a BT guild??

EDIT: It's not a recruitment shortage...
It's SW guild expecting too much.... they want a BT geared toon, but who would leave a BT guild
just for a SW guild? 'cos their guild might progress into SW themself soon.

umm nope... just do your heroics like a good boy and get your mighty fine t5-t6 level armor.  0 raiding required.

Come to think about it, arena shields rawks for tanking.
edit: LOL EMO

why's the tank doing damage now??
where's the dps ??
i said low dps, not no dps...
low dps, you can kill any boss (without enrage timer) as long as healer has the mana
pool to sustain you.

man, low dps= no dps???
I'm better off talking to a brick wall than a PVP guy.

Good for you that they're ur long time friends....
i have nothign against it.

I'm not trying to get ur thread locked either.
I'm just proving my claims cos a lot of people kept asking.
Stop the questions and i will stop posting, simple as that.

I made a simple statement,
geared tanks & healers can carry slightly undergeared dps.
Such a simple statement, but nooooo, u guys chose to say the other way round,

good dps can carry bad tanks & healers.

see the picture now ?

Time after time again, u never failed to amaze me with your 0 knowledge on raiding...
yet you still act like u know everything....

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TAKING CRITS IN THE FIRST PLACE???
Did u mean crushing damage? Want me to give u a tutorial on that ?

Problem is, you guys like to argue.

Me: 13 cannot win 40 in AV
U: SURE CAN !!!!

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Added on June 5, 2008, 10:19 am

Did i say that's all that resillience do?
u were talking about reduced chance of receiving crits and reduced crits damage when a tank shouldn't be eating crits in the first place.
That's like the basics of the basics a tank should do.

and yes, i speak on a tank's POV.
anything wrong? U'd rather me speak on a rogue's POV?

want me to repeat the whole big deal i played 3 years and am in za again ??

lol 40 0 resil alliance pug vs 13 400 resil premade Hordes then can win lor.

king this has nothing to do with av we are talking about raids, and you are just fueling the fire.

Did i say that's all that resillience do?
u were talking about reduced chance of receiving crits and reduced crits damage when a tank shouldn't be eating crits in the first place.
That's like the basics of the basics a tank should do.

and yes, i speak on a tank's POV.
anything wrong? U'd rather me speak on a rogue's POV?

want me to repeat the whole big deal i played 3 years and am in za again ??

btw my za tank did zul'jin in full s3.....he used his macro or sumthing then forgoten to swap back, our warrior did zuljin in 400+ resil and we down him.

If u want me to read, at least have the decency to make it readable...
else i'm not gonna read. No more questions?
i can go now?

I tank trash in BT/MH/SP in dps gear.  I eat crits occasionally.  My healers don't mind.  Arena shield would help reduce said crits.  I would use arena shield if i could be bothered to grind arena points and i didn't have better.

On a seperate note, I consider badge loot to be welfare epix.  I have a few pieces here and there to make up for missing slots.  They require 0 raiding and often they are just as good as stuff you can get in raids and sometimes even better.  Especially as a tank... god knows how many times while i've been raiding i've gotten whispered to go tank heroic Mgt.  You just need to idle for 10 minutes and you get whispered: "Tank?"  There is really no excuse to be an undergeared tank struggling through kara with all the loot you can purchase with badges.

wow... it's sooo easy...
so easy to farm boj, so easy to gear up 25 people...
so easy to jump straight into BT....

if i manage to jump into BT in 5 months, all of u should hang urself.

- it doesnt take long to gear, pvp or pve so long you put in the effort, in which you didnt. in pve, so long you do a lot of good heroic/badge runs, get decent luck on drops, you can be full epic in a day from full green/blues. while in pvp, honor grind for full S1 arena gear/S3 honor gear can be done in a day as well depending on how successful/hardcore you are (winning games instead of losing)

wow....this thread is epic in its own way..

Hmm, i think

Good tank + healer can carry slightly lower dps raid members = true
Good dps + healer can carry slightly undergeared tanker = true too
it all depends...so far I've been raiding in MH BT SSC TK, although I've not cleared BT, but i've seen lots of different scenarios, not to say its impposible.....

and quazacolt, your posts dont need to be so offensive, if u ever click and view the posts you made, more than half of it I supposed are offending one or another person.....king has not ventured into BT, but I've ventured into BT as a rogue, so I guess I have alittle more qualification saying that they can bring slightly undergeared raid members.....considering your raiding experience, i would bow to u when it comes to pvp, but not pve =/

There's a guild on my server, disbanded back before the alchemy changes because they lost the will to keep wiping on magtheridon.  Then they reformed recently, went straight in ZA, MT was in t4 and rep gear with some geared people but almost everyone else in green + blues.  Illidan dead in about 4 months with their BT clear in about 3 weeks (we helped with hods).  So it's definitely doable to finally make it to BT in 5 months

The reason we can carry undergeared DPS :

We bring 15-17 dps to raid on average, 1/15 = 6.67% only

whereas if we bring 1 undergeared tank, 1/3 = 33%. Meaning that the bring an undergeared tank has a way way higher effect on raid compared to dps.

The problem is u are state that healers and tanks > dps, which is not true.

Yup, kara resets everyday.
Everyday i can clear kara + all those other heroics u mention.
I have no life outside of wow.
One day can get 35 bojs if follow ur plan.

Nice guide  , appreciate it.
so easy.

oh btw, i have not heard of kara 3 hours....
nor is my guild capable of doing that.
Best i've heard is 5 hours kara run...
3 hours must be a record or something.

king you said you can enter MH in 5 months? dude i entred with out even a piece of t4 dude go hang your self,i enter bt in 1 and a half month your warrior dinged 70 when my hunter was 64. are you going to hang your self?

You got carried?
I've seen a full T6 shaman with 7 hours /played

Yeah, my guild is not capable of 3 hours...
should i jump ship to a BT guild?
They will accept me yeah? So that they will diligently
run me thru kara everyday to follow ur plan of 22 bojs yeah?
so easy !!!

king ur pretty wrong then...my guild does kara in 2 1/2 hours run....and tats including some silly wipes ppl fooling around......5 hours is like, way too long lol......2-3 hours is very common =/

The only possible way is to get carried....
seems like u guys like rushing.... i don't.
I wanna see all content, not skip za, ssc, tk like that.

ok, u earned it.
Next question.... are u a student? Unemployed?

Translation: I played over 3 years and i am more successful than you.

Translation: i played for 3 years.... and am in za