since it's back up, may i ask something here...

i've been playin some time,i know i'm in key, but i know i sound like trash at the same time....coz when i play i realised i do not have much melody...

1. and so i've been trying, to break up my melody into chords...but i always find that i don't have time to 'catch up' to the next chord, and i end up lazy and just continue trashing the same minor pentatonic or the occasional major/major pentatonic... question here is, how do you guys manage to 'catch up'?

2. i came across about these modes too... but how and when do i apply it? like when a C chord is playing, besides playing C pentatonic, or C minor pentatonic, or C arpeggio, or Am pentatonic...can i actually use C lydian? or do i use F lydian (coz F lydian is in the key of C) coz when i do that, sometimes i feel it sounds wrong...maybe coz i'm still noob and didnt apply it propertly?

any help would truly be appreciated...thank you...

Don't throw in modes just because they are "in key" or people say that they are "correct". Have the melody in your head before you bring it out on your fingers. That's actually the most important.

Modes, arpeggios, intervals...etc these are all just to build your music "vocabulary". They're just helping you to know what lydian sounds like, what mood a 4th, 5th or 6th gives...etc. In the end it's the putting all of it together sensibly and creatively to express what you want to say that makes it work. Jamming out random notes will never get you anywhere EVEN if you use the pentatonics which is "correct" all the time.

You know how many people say "Don't speak without thinking", it's kind of the same with music.

yo bro..modes huh?..there r seven modes for each note..if u play C as the key it doesnt mean u can juz simply throw some C lydian solo..it depends oh the chord contructions..if u want to play Lydian listen a lot from steve vai..but 4 me, just combining diatonic n pentatonic wit some bluesy scales will also produce a great solo..if u really want to apply modes..u need to be really understand what u r playing..the structure of the song..(chord construction+time signature+dynamic of the song)...takes time as well..

This post has been edited by hidzwan: Mar 21 2009, 04:59 PM

improvisation over chords, or so called solo, means you have to compose a melody on the spot. so it doesn't make sense to just spam notes, right? when you compose a song, would you spam notes? the differences between composing and improvising is just that you don't have much time during improvisation as you have when you're composing - but both shares the same goel, to create something melodious.

there're a few approaches on how to learn improvisation, which i don't want to touch that now. but i do want to voice out about knowing the scales before you're able to improvise - that's basically what being taught in malaysia, which to me, is a wrong approach. you gotta know the harmony, instead of scales. if you only know scales, you won't go far as you'll tend to stay within the scales. but if you understand the harmony, you can start to explore many, many things.

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Added on March 21, 2009, 10:42 pmactually, i wouldn't say there's minor and major pentatonic, cause they just started on different note, but they share the same 5 notes.

the real minor pentatonic, imo, is the "japanese" pentatonic. try this A B C E F ...

This post has been edited by little ice: Mar 21 2009, 10:42 PM

are you just saying that just to prove me wrong? haha.
well its up to you on whatever you want to say.
imo just because it share the same notes doesnt mean theres no major/minor element to it. A minor pentatonic first two notes A C <- C is a minor 3rd. A major pentatonic: A C#(major 3rd) and so on. so what do you do when someone asks you to play the pentatonic scale? which do you choose? see.

i might be wrong, since ure the full time musician with paper qualifications and all.

it depends on how you look at it. i was just voicing out my own opinions...

both of u are correct.

it's the same, but also different.

they are the same. of course A minor pentatonic notes = C major pentatonic notes. E minor = G major.
They are related major minor of course.

but they are also different.
put on blues cadence on A minor u got Am-Dm-Em
on C major u got Cmaj-Fmaj-Gmaj

not same anymore.
and A minor pentatonic will never same with A major pentatonic ofc.
but it is the same with C major pentatonic.

y argue things because u look at it from different perspectives?
made me remembered of 3 blind mans with an elephant story..

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Added on March 23, 2009, 5:50 pmi second this opinion.
and there are also guitarists who just play their scale over progression or chord vamp.
they are not actually melodically phrasing.
ended up their solo/improvise turn out to be flat, less dynamic and not interesting.

This post has been edited by m3er: Mar 23 2009, 05:50 PM

haha. we were not argueing la.
its just a discussion, with each of us bringing up our own points. my point was simply that if you mention a pentatonic scale, also do mention what kind it is.

anyways, lets move on.

fuhh..M3er mcm pro ...

anyway , i think by explaining C major scale = A minor scale , because they have the same notes..
is the best way to explain to beginners ..
there are many points why C major is not = A minor scale ,but if you start going into it..
you sure make your students confuse as hell ..

no lah, i would die in shame playing infront of u guys.

agree, and that is not yet going into modes

how about arpeggio guys?
ive been stuck with pentatonic all the times until i realized my ad lip solo are not improving at all.
haihhh.. need to practise more as im now amazed by sweeping technique.
my finger seem not fast enuff..LOL

p/s: im newbie...plz dont shoot me

thanks guys, i'll try to work on my melody...

use the metronone?

y everytime people mention about apreggio, sweep picking comes into mind?
isnt that there are also other ways to play the 3 - 4 notes?

well arpeggios are just notes of a chord played seperately.. but most guitarists usually associate it with sweep picking and often overlook plucked/picked arpeggios..

Any tips to get out of the pentatonic rut? Most my improvs are bluesy. I want to make it sound more metal. The closest I can get are those Kirk Hammett licks..

oppss sorry guys.
its not personal actually.
im just kinda of trying to improvise on my solo.
been stuck with pentatonic with a lil bit of scaling.

sweeping for me need to be accurate n fast, and its a good technique to improve my fingering...dats is y i mention about sweeping.
im also amazed on classical guitar method on arpeggios.

p/s: im noob n got a lot more to learn from others...so dont shoot me

and there is also legato to play appreggios, easiest example is the outro of hotel california solo.

i've been using the minor pentatonic scales for years and years and my favourites are A,D and E pentatonic scales...but i realized it can only bring u so far....gotta learn the modes too...and of course the Major scales.....but its kinda difficult if u're learning urself(i'm a self taught guitarist myself)....but im grateful to have found forums like this that can expand my knowledge in guitar playing....when i first started, i wanted to be like Slash so i studied him extensively(even bought a book entitled "Learn How To Play Like Slash")...thats where i learn about pentatonic scales...but then i discovered Mark Tremonti (i've been a fan of him since Creed era but never knew he could play awesomely) and studied him too....he uses alot of modes(or modal????not sure about the term) and it really helps with the soloing....but apart from learning these terms/theories/scales or watever to help construct ur solos, the most important thing is to play by heart(feel)...too much technicality is not so good either IMHO....music is about expressing urself.....

just my 2 cents

rock on!!!!!

Hi all, great to see an old thread getting re-born !
Anyone interested in soloing must buy the magazine called "Guitar Techniques". Each month brings amazing eyes (and ears-) opening approaches to soloing, that helps breaking out from the pentatonic licks.
With just one issue, one can spend one year studying it

PIX!!!!!!
welcome back!