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Renovations 3-phase wiring
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SUSceo684
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Mar 16 2021, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(5p3ak @ Mar 16 2021, 09:26 PM) Good day to all, I got noob question. Is 3 phase = able to provide 3 x the Amp of single phase? So if single phase max is 63A so 3 phase = 3x63A? Yes, correct 3*63A (for 16mm² cable) or 3*40A for 10mm² cable because of the way the phases cancel each other out in perfectly balanced system, the neutral carries very little current. Perfect never happens but usually the electrician will position the loads to be balanced out based on typical load amps per phase or similar method. The danger is if you lose the neutral, it becomes phase-to-phase aka 415V so the neutral connection need to be securely attached for 3ph supply. This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 16 2021, 09:48 PM
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SUSceo684
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Mar 17 2021, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(focusrite @ Mar 17 2021, 10:16 AM) My parents want to start a small home baking business and are planning on getting a commercial oven. Would you guys recommend that we change to three phase? We have a lot of aircons in the house but pretty much never on them all at the same time. At most 2 on at the same time. It will depend on your typical load amps right now; this can be checked by a clamp meter on the main cable when you turn on everything that you usually use (sans aircons since normally not used but you can also conduct a check with and without all the AC).
and what is the supply rating ie 40A or 63A to see what is your "available capacity amps" not in use. Then see the oven rating how many watts to calculate the oven load amps. Depending on the oven power rating you may need to pull a new dedicated circuit from DB to the oven. This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 17 2021, 01:48 PM
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SUSceo684
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Mar 17 2021, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE(focusrite @ Mar 17 2021, 01:46 PM) I don't even know how to check that  Load amps can be checked by an electrician with a clamp meter. As this is done "hot" while electricity is still running. Generally if the oven is below 3000W then should be no problem. But if the oven has signs saying "requires permanent installation" or the likes, OR if power exceed 3000W then you still have to pull new wiring as the standard 13A socket is NOT sufficient.Supply rating = take a picture of the DB box, you DON'T need to open up all the way to the insides, just need to see the two largest blocks in there. This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 17 2021, 01:54 PM
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SUSceo684
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Mar 17 2021, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE(focusrite @ Mar 17 2021, 03:01 PM) yeah, can consider just use first to see if there are any problems. can save money if no problems  I'll add on - if the oven came with a 13A standard plug will not have issues. If the oven doesn't come ready-to-use with a plug or requires 415V (three phase), then it will be the first sign of "requires professional installation". Some commercial oven use 415V.
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SUSceo684
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Mar 18 2021, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Mar 18 2021, 06:55 PM) Hi guys, in Malaysia or Strata any rules saying that we cannot run concealed wiring without pvc conduit? What wires should I use for concealed wiring 1.5mm for light and fan? Other than double pvc what is other options? Generally you can see CHAPTER 5 CABLE SELECTION in "ST GUIDELINES FOR ELECTRICAL WIRING IN RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS 2008". PDF available online. You are pulling new wire from DB box or connecting to existing point? This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 18 2021, 07:11 PM
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SUSceo684
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Mar 18 2021, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Mar 18 2021, 07:12 PM) from Both also because DB slot limited Theoretically should not be a problem if you're not fitting excessively big fan or factory spotlight. It is a concept of DI (double insulation) for concealed wiring, conduit and 1.5mm LNE for the run to DB box. Whilst for light circuit you can get by with substandard 2.5mm cable (I do not recommend) but then again properly made and certified MS2113-2 1.5mm is not expensive (old price RM62RM62, new price RM70RM70) for peace of mind when you sleep  Conduit runs about 8ft full pipe also just a few bucks from electrical store each. Those on shopee usually halfcuts at 4ft for easier transport but then you need twice as many fittings to join up. At the DB can just run 6A MCB, whilst 10A still well within the spec of the 1.5mm cable, 6A cuts earlier in case of an overloading fault which in normal use I doubt you'd even come close to 6A for a light circuit.. that's 1380W  For jointing the ones to existing point, to skip the hassle of using the traditional connector blocks you can consider the wago 221 terminal block series, good for up to 20A (overspec for lights). 2-way 221-412 https://my.element14.com/wago/221-412-ve00-...2pos/dp/25362493-way 221-413 https://my.element14.com/wago/221-413-ve00-...3pos/dp/25362505-way 221-415 https://my.element14.com/wago/221-415-ve00-...5pos/dp/2536251This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 18 2021, 08:26 PM
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SUSceo684
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Mar 18 2021, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Mar 18 2021, 08:26 PM) actually I'm engaging a contractor , i stay in condo. they don't want to take risk to drill deeper and put a conduit as worrying it might affect the slab between my ceiling with the floor for neighbor above Yes it is only 1.5mm for lighting and fan. So DI is better , what if my contractor just want to use single layer PVC ? Whilst it is not recommended to just bury cables direct into the ceiling slab, you can use the smallest 8mm OD (5mm ID) conduit to remain complaint with ST rules. This should be easy enough to conceal since OD only 8mm. https://shopee.com.my/Automotive-Wire-Condu...2975.3959127968
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SUSceo684
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Mar 20 2021, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Mar 20 2021, 04:43 PM) thank you, saw the work done today, the contractor managed to use back the developer wire Conduit PVC as my requested new light and fan point just along the existing conduit. now i have a new question. can i pull a new 2.5mm wire from the DB shared for 3 Power point outlet sockets (all three for CCTV on 24 hours) and 2 switches for 17W ceiling exhaust fans (on 24 hours)? Overload protective devices (MCB) The nominal current or current setting of the devices should not exceed the lowest of the current carrying capacities of any of the conductors in the circuit. For this scenario use C6 MCB (6A) as the smallest wire is likely the one in the fan cable. The only catch is these sockets won't be usable for other general purpose, but since you're using for very light duty CCTV and fans it should not matter, 6A MCB support 1380W max. Your total power rating for CCTVs and DVR should be less than 300W + 34W of fans. So the nominal load rating is very low even we up to 400W (1.739A)6A will be safe with regards to the lousiest/smallest conductor size (fan cable) in case the fan motor jam (or other overload scenario that can potentially occur), it will not cause a fire. Why 6A and not other rating MCB?The CCTV come with power adapter which is regulated (current limited), but the fans are meant for permanent installation and as such they didn't come with a plug (hence no fuse).This post has been edited by ceo684: Mar 20 2021, 05:36 PM
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SUSceo684
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Apr 19 2021, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 19 2021, 02:58 PM) Hi bro sorry ya, currently i have a project in PJ and i requested TNB to come over to shift a 3ph TNB meter from the existing column outside to the new column next to it, about 3ft away. So the tnb guy came and said they cannot connect the wire, they will need to install new wiring. And to do so, he gave me 2 options, first option is to dig the road and pull the cable from across, and he quoted me RM14k for digging and another RM11k+- for new cables. The 2nd option he suggested was to install a TNB pole, which would cost less than RM10k. My question is, is it not possible to just reconnect the wires since its just a short length away? Because the connection can be done inside the box, hence I doubt so there wont be an issue, not that I can tell, but the tnb guy said better to pull a new wire because in case anything happen, or if i engage another contractor to add the wiring and a problem surfaces, they will still ask to install a new wiring. I am quite surprised by the price they quoted, i thought it would be less than RM5k to install a pole. And i read on our forums here to shift meter only RM1.5k at most. So now the owner also headache I also headache.  Partly on my fault for not enquiring sooner first. :\ Thanks for your reply in advance. The headache of connections other than a direct cable is that loose connection causes fires, they dont want to take the risk and liability. You'd also find it a mammoth task to get type approved connectors for high amp ratings i.e. not the china RM10 ones.
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SUSceo684
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Apr 19 2021, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 19 2021, 05:10 PM) So means no choice but to lay new cabling? ☹ Edit: possible to use cable jointing kit? Yes best is uncut direct flight with no joinery but it really depends on which part cabling insufficient. If TNB supply to meter (meter tails) too short I dont think they will approve it with joiner kit for reason of how sure is the joinery weatherproof? If after meter it is use at own risk (I highly discourage) If incomer (meter into DB box) part too short then just run a new set of direct cable into the house (from meter), even 16mm² also wont cost too much coz they're available in loose cut online (by meter) and in the correct colours Red Yellow Blue Black Green so dont need to purchase all 100m full length. It is not difficult to purchase loose cuts in the required length and in the correct colours. This is especially important in 3phase as phase to phase creates 415V. Bada bing bada boom for 230V equipment. I know some contractor simply use black for everything and just tape the phase colour as 1 strip of tape, but I also generally despise this shortcut as that tape may break or discolour over time. Here is where you should never ever ever skimp on cables. Easy way is just use Mega kabel or caramay cables sahaja. Many fake SIRIM nonsense with elcheapo cable. https://www.sirim-qas.com.my/forgery-on-license-no-pc000218/This post has been edited by ceo684: Apr 19 2021, 11:15 PM
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SUSceo684
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Apr 20 2021, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 19 2021, 11:46 PM) Hmm. I know uncut would be best, but the cables is short only 1ft, my estimation, I have yet to find the actual GI pipe in which the TNB cable is coming in from. But from where I see it and estimate, the cable length which would be short is about 1ft, I guess the tnb guy is playing safe, but that amount to redo is way overpriced and personally quite illogical. He said RM14k to pace the way for the cables, and another RM10k to lay cables. And the pole, he asked me to dig the hole and lay the pipe, and they easy job come and pull wire and fix their pole only. I thought the pole they have their own truck to dig? Why I need to dig? Or maybe he see us as young and naive so wanna take opportunity. But whatever it is, the owner said its way overpriced. She called one of her family member and that family member is also shocked by that amount he quoted. From meter to DB is no problem, that one I know, even the previous contractor used jointing kit for that. My guess is when the previous tnb contractor did that the 4core 16mm2 wire was short, so hence why they used jointing kit into the house. it was right smack in the middle of the driveway. lol. But I already advised the owner that the best is still running on the sides, because these things we cant tell. And since also I will be running the new auto gate wires from the sides, so hence why i will lay the 4core 16mm2 cables roughly at the same area also. Not next to each other, need some spacing also. I usually use Mega cables, I do not use other cables. I dont cheap out on this. lol. Anything happen owner come find me man. lol. Dont play play. Its only the incoming from TNB. I would accept if its like RM5k+-, but not RM10k for a pole and wire. lol IMO la.. Agreed. Jointing kit depends on whether type approved / IP weatherproof good or not. Alternatively if it is just short to the cutout fuse, can extend the part from "cutout fuse to meter" and get it recertified by TNB will be cheaper?
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SUSceo684
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Apr 20 2021, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 20 2021, 12:48 AM) Possible to do that? How would I go about getting a recertification from TNB? Im planning to call a few TNB contractors and find out. Hopefully tomorrow they will provide me some solutions. As I recall the cutout fuse can also be below the meter. Meter has its specified height. To eliminate joints in between, as you mentioned its short by 1 feet, if they OK to use a long and tall metal meter box (the 415V type with perspex clear window) and can recertify the connection between cutout fuse and meter which (IIRC will need to be opened up and sticker broken) then its certainly a cheaper solution than digging pole or the road  Something like this https://shopee.com.my/product/129202704/773...38-1618851869.9
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SUSceo684
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Apr 20 2021, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 20 2021, 09:22 AM) Oh. Thats good to know. I think the owner wont mind a few hundred bucks, shes prepared to spend about 1.5k for tnb shifting. If thats the case, do i engage another tnbcontractor to come and inspect? May i ask what is my next step now? Im thinking to walk in to the nearest tnb contractor office and ask. Yup can enquire with them. Presumably the bigger box will allow all the necessary connections to be made safely and "can pass TNB"
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SUSceo684
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Apr 20 2021, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 20 2021, 10:55 AM) Okay bro. Thanks a lot man. I'll go enquire a few tnb panel offices from their contractor list and see if they can assist. Sis here actually. Yup that sounds like a good starting point as technically if they are able to OK the move and recertify those cutout fuse/meter stickers then one less thing to worry about. For the aesthetics of big meter box..well it cannot be avoided..but it its kinda cool to have a big box
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SUSceo684
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Apr 22 2021, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE(bobowyc @ Apr 22 2021, 09:17 AM) Update: I contacted one tnb contractor from their list, they quoted my client 4.8k for laying the new GI pipe, rewire, new board, new outgoing wire into the DB and necessary works. I think its a reasonable pricing. 😅 what do you think? Sounds good all in all, being a TNB panel things will generally be smoother
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SUSceo684
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Nov 20 2021, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(stormer.lyn @ Nov 20 2021, 01:55 PM) Nope, doesn't sound right that the Neutral busbar needs to be replaced. If it is sparking why not just redo and tighten back the screw terminals? If an individual screw terminal is damaged, why not just move the slot, as you have so many empty ones? (FYI I am not an end user just giving my so called "opinion", but a tech in the industry)Sparking is just a symptom of loose connection.
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SUSceo684
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Nov 22 2021, 03:46 AM
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QUOTE(lopo90 @ Nov 21 2021, 02:38 PM) Hi guys, anyone familiar with electrical wiring. Hope someone can help out.. I got an oven from China , rated 220v with power output 3200watts. plan to change the oven's default plug (250v/16a) rating to the standard 250v/13a so that it can fit into the wall socket Given we are using the standard 240v, that means this oven will be running on 13.3 amps. Which is higher than the 13amps rating Is it ok if I were to run the oven slightly above the rated amps? Or should I change it to the 15amp plug Reason for asking is because I've noticed similar oven (3200w) sold on shopee using the standard 13amps plug We are using 230V. So anyhow also exceeded 13A. Means cannot use 13A. You have to use a 15A UNFUSED plug with a 16A MCB, OR hardwire using at least a 20A CU (connection unit) more commonly known as isolator like https://www.lazada.com.my/products/schneide...2655030922.html with a 16A MCB, better buy 35A rated isolator since few bucks more. OR use a 16A commando plug and socket https://www.lazada.com.my/products/quality-...0884196990.html AND switch with 25A isolator switch like this https://www.lazada.com.my/products/quality-...0884196990.html (U need to mount in PVC box, nett effect is like this https://www.lazada.com.my/products/taian-tj...211221209.html) with a 16A MCB. The 16A MCB is important as all options are UNFUSED.
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SUSceo684
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Jan 23 2022, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE(mavistan89 @ Jan 23 2022, 04:36 PM) Hi for a old teres house old meter upgrade to 3 phase how much does it cost? My tnb person quote me rm5000 He said Rm2500 tnb Rm1000 tnb form Rm1500 wiring from meter board This reasonable? Include DB refresh? Existing 40A or 63A?
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SUSceo684
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Jan 24 2022, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE(mavistan89 @ Jan 24 2022, 12:46 AM) A 40+ years old house, not sure 40A or 63A ... they will change the meter thing.. is it DB? Should make sure, because if supply already 63A it is very unlikely you need more than that (hence no point in going 3 phase).
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SUSceo684
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Mar 9 2022, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE(imation1314 @ Mar 9 2022, 12:27 AM) Anyone know how to to check the max load on TNB meter ? Is this means single phase with max load 100A ?  snap clear pic of DB box's largest modules
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