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 Fund Investment Corner v2, A to Z about Fund

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darkknight81
post Aug 8 2008, 10:14 PM

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For long term investment in unit trust i still prefer islamic fund which is able to give more constant return. The fund manager will invest on safer security. Public mutual is famous for its islamic fund. Besides, we have to see on what stock they invest into base on their quarterly report. biggrin.gif
darkknight81
post Aug 9 2008, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Aug 9 2008, 02:53 AM)
This statement is very misleading. There is no guarantee that Islamic funds give constant returns. In fact, the conventional funds are able to generate more constant returns than Islamic funds through historical data. Just hope to clear the misleading fact smile.gif
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What conventional funds are you referring to? Can you give an example. From the experience of playing fund last time, islamic fund give better returns and their price doesn't fluctuate as much compare to other funds especially china fund and other non-islamic fund as i think they do more speculative trading compare to islamic fund.
darkknight81
post Aug 9 2008, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Aug 9 2008, 01:48 PM)
What cherroy said is true. You cannot compare an apple with an orange. Islamic funds can only invest in halal stocks (ie no gambling, no alcohol, no tobacco, etc) that goes by the Islamic principles. Islamic funds are very limited to these few companies only, so the choices are in fact very limited. When the stocks grow across the board, Islamic funds may lose out to those conventional funds because of this limit. So, to say that Islamic fund will outperform conventional funds, is outright misleading and it would only depend on the situation.
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Yup agree with you biggrin.gif . Do you see what stock they fund actually invest into before you buy that fund? As i notice
public mutual islamic fund normally invested in fundamental stock. Don you think so? I think beside islamic fund doesn't allow to invest in nonhalal stocks , the fund also less speculate on the market base on the stock they bought.

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 9 2008, 04:46 PM
darkknight81
post Aug 10 2008, 08:45 PM

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One more issue i withdraw my investment from fund is due to the transparency. We know what stock the fund manager bought but we don know at what price they bought. Take for example stock A
The fund manager bought stock A at RM 2.00 (i mean his personal account). After that he use the fund money to buy at RM 2.50. Then during RM 3.00 he can sell of his own stock first. Is it possible? I don mean to say fund is not good. I just doubtful about the transparency.. I ask my unit trust upline but he cannot answer me....
darkknight81
post Aug 11 2008, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 10 2008, 10:18 PM)
Yes, it is possible. But it is plain stupid to do so or in such way.
But if the fund manager is doing as you suggested, it is called insider trading, which is an offence to do so in all major bourses around the world. Stock Exhange around the world (especially developed one) is very keen to crack down those manipulation or insider trading to safeguard the integrity of the stock exchange, otherwise the exchange will be manipulated by interested party while others always at losing end of the game which eventually, people and investors no longer want to invest in it either eventually this stock exhange will be left out by investors.

I don't think many dare to put their job on the line which can be easily being exposed.
You risk your whole lucrative career on the risk just to gain some from the market? It doesn't make sense for most people. 

Even leak out the news to others also can lead to insider trading charge.
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You mean fund manager cannot buy shares(i mean their own account)? After they bought the particular share,he can argue that he see the potential of that stock and use the fund money to invest in it again. If not they can use their wife account to do so. Is it wrong also??
darkknight81
post Aug 11 2008, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 11 2008, 02:43 PM)
There are some restricition if one works as fund manager or this particular field, if not mistaken, just like remisers can't open own or his spouse account with the investment bank they are working with etc.
Husband and wife is treated same entity most of the time, depended on the rules and regulation set respectively.

Relevant authority is not stupid either, they will investigate the timing of it. Even if one escape with the breach of the law with black and white (just like you mentioned, use relatives account to trade) but the company surely raise the suspectibilty on it which won't be good for your career. Fund managers already can gain extra from the profit (in term of performance bonuses) they made in the stock market through fund investment, then still greedy want to make more personally?

Again, just like said before, you don't risk your whole career just to gain some out of it (which also no guarantee as explained as below). Trust is important is this aspect, same with doing business, once one loses the creditability of the trust, then your whole career in this field (even in businesses) basically spoilt. No matter how good you are, nobody will dare to hire you nor doing business with you (in term of businesses).

Creditability of trust built over time, but can be spoilt overnight.

Also, just to point out, even if you are the fund manager and your fund has decided to buy a particular stock, there is no guarantee the stock will go up either. A single fund manager can't push up the stock alone even for like of EPF, even they buy aggressive in the market, but if market sentiment and market force is against it, they are powerless to drive up the stock price alone. A few tick may be, but sustainability of the share price depends on general market force, not a single or 2 investors (even though they are huge).
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Thanks cherroy for your comment notworthy.gif it clear my doubt toward fund. So what you prefer? stock or unit trust? brows.gif . What i do for my portfolio is 40% stock and 60% in ASW (which i think is damn steady very safe with good dividend every year) biggrin.gif
darkknight81
post Aug 12 2008, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(David83 @ Aug 12 2008, 01:07 PM)
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It doesn't state that the investment is mostly oversea or domestic. Normally "hottest trend" indicates high volatility sweat.gif
darkknight81
post Aug 13 2008, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(bulkbiz @ Aug 13 2008, 01:10 PM)
Hi there,

I have some doubt here, I bought Public China ittikal fund last year during the fund launch. The price was 0.25. As of yesterday the price is 0.18 something, I know unit trust is for long term, but it never raise over 0.25 since the day I bought. Now every month it will auto debit from my PBB account RM500. I doubt after 2-3 years this fund will earn me money.

Anyone of you here consistently get 15% annual return for all the investment he did? If yes please share:) (10% above also can share). I am 25 this year and decided to retired by the age of 50. I want to compound my investment money. hehe
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First, no fund / stock is always going up. There sure will be some correction and downturn. So for long term investment you are looking for the long term prospect not short term. Like what buffet do, after you invest, you should not monitor on the price movement but you should look for the overall company profile and growth. For your case which is china fund, you should look into china market in the next 10 years (excluding gaming, alchohol as itikal fund is syariah compliance). But my concern on china fund is china is facing rapid aging population. This is the important thing you got to look into.
darkknight81
post Aug 13 2008, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(bulkbiz @ Aug 13 2008, 02:18 PM)
Okay, I am going to sell it off
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Hey brother, i din ask you to sell sweat.gif you got to verify yourself thats what i mean.
darkknight81
post Aug 13 2008, 10:03 PM

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If you really see no prospect or don have confident to the fund that you invested. You can try switch to another fund. It can save you the 5 percent service charge.
There are few funds which i think their futures are not bad:


Public Islamic Asia Dividend Fund

Public Islamic Dividend Fund

Public Ittikal Fund

This few funds mostly invested in Asia (Not in one country) Therefore the risk is lower for example political risk.
Besides, they gives dividend is more to steady growth. But before you invest to that fund you better refer to agent to check on the investment portfolio (which company they invested in and what sector they invested in)

One last thing which i think is very important, you must feel comfortable and confident on the sector the fund invested in / the fund manager / the company that the fund invest in. Think properly before you invest. Once invest don regret icon_rolleyes.gif So that you no need to worry and keep on checking on the price laugh.gif

This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 13 2008, 10:13 PM
darkknight81
post Aug 14 2008, 12:04 PM

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I think there are few key point that you need to consider before you buy fund.

1. Who is the fund manager
2. Which sector they invested
3. Company that invested

Past perfomance of the fund does not guarantee you anything.
darkknight81
post Aug 19 2008, 08:55 PM

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PCSF invested in Bluechips stock listed in Hang Seng Taiwan and china H share (Eg. China Mobile, Petro China,
Bank Of China and so on... ) If PCSF go to 0 that means China economy is in big trouble... sweat.gif

If you want to invest in Unit trust for example PCSF, basically you got to see Hang seng Index, Taiwan index and China Index which MEANS THEIR economy...


darkknight81
post Aug 19 2008, 09:25 PM

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If you feel selecting fund is so difficult maybe you can put your money in ASM or ASW it is 99% safe. brows.gif
With average return of 6 - 7%. So far is the best unit trust which can weather you through good and tough market conditions. thumbup.gif
darkknight81
post Aug 20 2008, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Aug 20 2008, 12:52 AM)
There are lots of magazines/books/newspapers/websites/blogs you can learn from. Choosing the medium of information depends a lot on your level of understanding. If you are one of the beginners, then websites like Investopedia, FMUTM's and Public Mutual's websites are good for you to learn. If you are a little advanced, try looking for blogs or newspapers (BizWeek is a good one), as they provide more information than those basics. If you are more advanced than that, Personal Money teaches you on tracking the market, and you can get market updates there as well.

Hope this helps, because this was how I learned.
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Jordy sifu,

You are expert in fund right? brows.gif

Actually i am eyeing on PUBLIC Ittikal and PCSF. Having a conflict here. But my view is Public ittikal is not so high risk. Besides, it give good dividend. Where as PCSF is more volatile. I still think Public Ittikal is better to buy for long term. Can you explain some more? notworthy.gif
darkknight81
post Aug 21 2008, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(ricky_wl @ Aug 21 2008, 10:03 AM)
@darkknight81 .. i also eyeing and planning to buy in units on PITTIKAL and i know this fund will also distribute dividend twice a year somehow .. GOOD
but i afriad that this is not a good time as i read many experts out there till think that the market will till go downwards for the coming next 12 mths
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Unit trust is for long term investment. As long as you think that the price is ok then can enter. Maybe by dollar cost averaging.
darkknight81
post Aug 23 2008, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(irenechong85 @ Aug 22 2008, 10:05 PM)
Hi, every1, I new here..hope sum1 can help me...I had invest in Pb Dana Asean DIvidend since last year.but recently it done badly due to our economic now... can any1 giv me opinion on whether I should sold it o hold it...o I should shift it to other fund?

Much appreciate on opinion given...thx..
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Have you fully understand what this fund invested to before you bought this fund in the first place?
You have confident with this fund?
What is the reason you choose this fund in the first place?
darkknight81
post Aug 23 2008, 08:08 PM

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Added on August 23, 2008, 5:59 pm
I agree with this.

And the thing is most people who buy UT don't have the time and/or knowledge to make investments in share-markets etc directly, so they depend on fund managers to manage on their behalf.

Agents have a role to play too in explaining things (especially the risks) properly but they are not really expert investors. The "expert" investors are the fund investment managers, but they are also the ones making the losses. rclxub.gif About the only thing an agent can say which would be easily understand by a customer is how the fund made 30% last year etc. Some fund houses/agents go through a risk-profiling questionaire when the customer first signs up and explain how their profile fits in with the various categories of funds available, but other fund houses don't seem to do that.
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[/quote]

Actually some stock doesn't need frequent monitoring.

Thats y in my previous post i mentioned "why you need to buy UT". They must know the reason why.

For me,

Buying UT have two advantages:

1. For some beginner/ they don have enought capital they got to buy UT trust as buying stock need more capital where as UT minimum is 1K.

2. Divesified - some may think divisified can reduce the risk (single stock risk). Although i think divesified may reduce your return but surely it can minimize risk.


darkknight81
post Aug 24 2008, 07:58 PM

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[quote=howszat,Aug 24 2008, 12:10 AM]

>>Only some? But that's not the point, is it? The point is you need to know which stock do and which stocks don't to begin with.

Thats y for buying stock.. hunting for the correct stock is very crucial. Thats y for beginner i think better don buy stock. But after you got some experient in choosing stock it will not be so difficult though. But like what i said just that need more capital as good stock normally not cheap

>>The thing is you don't need to know as much about UT as you do about stocks - in fact you can't "fully understand" UT as you called it, because for many funds, the UT manager can change the allocation of their portfolio at any time within the terms and conditions specified in the prospectus which in many cases are very broad.

Er thats y i said better buying fund which launched more than 1 years as you can see the allocation of the fund. What you said is true the fund manager can change the allocation but from the allocation you can see the patern of investment on that fund which in simple give you some idea what the fund invested to... which is better than you don even know what the fund manager are doing.


>>On the contrary, only about 10 or so stocks are greater than RM10, the rest (about 1200+) are less than RM10 which means the minimum to buy is less than RM 1K.

I don agree with that. As i see most of the fundamental stock are more than 1k though

Few example

Amway 6.90 = RM 6900
BAT rm 40.00 = RM 40K
Nestle RM 24.00 = RM 24K
Public Bank RM 10.00 = RM 10k


For some investor they cannot expose to lose their investment in one shot... Actually every stock have the tendency to go bankrupt but the only thing is how likely ... Even you buy stock it is advisable to diversify too but not too much maybe 2 to 3 thats what i mean here.
darkknight81
post Aug 24 2008, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Aug 24 2008, 09:48 PM)
>> Amway 6.90 = RM 6900

The minimum is 100 shares and not 1000 shares. So RM690 is all you need.
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From what you say, you sure never buy stock though .

Actually buying stock we need to take the service charge into consideration. If you buy 100 lot which is RM 690 you will be charge RM 40 minimum charges. Whereas if you buy RM 6900 you will be charge 0.6% which is rm 41.00.
So which one is better? Sure buying in big lots wins up in the end.

For example if the stock go up 50 sen which means 7.40. If you bought 100 lots you sell it then the results is :

740 - 690 = RM 50 (For your information you are being charge RM 40 when you buy and RM 40 when you sell) So actually RM 80.00 - RM 50 = You still loose RM 30.00

Where as if you buy 1000 lots

Then 7400 - 6900 = RM 500

RM 500 - RM 82.00 = RM 400


Thats y ppl say stock is big fish eat small fish game.... No offence just to let you know the real situation though
You got to be very calculative in every sen your invest... cannot take it easily






This post has been edited by darkknight81: Aug 24 2008, 09:50 PM
darkknight81
post Aug 24 2008, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Aug 25 2008, 12:17 AM)
Yes, I do buy stock. You pay RM40? I don't - I only pay RM12. You pay 0.6%? I don't - I only pay 0.42%

Which one is better? That's a different question. My response was to your example of the minimum being 1000 shares which is not correct.
No, I don't lose anything. I will make RM24, in fact.
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Ok get what you mean laugh.gif

It seems if you buy 100 shares using online trading will be much more cheaper compare to through remisier. As i never use online trading due to some reason.

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